Author Topic: Transgender people and bathrooms  (Read 9190 times)

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Offline Chino

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Transgender people and bathrooms
« on: April 22, 2016, 06:58:50 AM »
Lots of stuff in the news about this recently thanks to all the entertainment pulling out of North Carolina. My question is, what has been being done up until this point? I mean, it's not like transgender people started popping up for the first time six months ago. Whatever has been being done in the past decades seems to have been working just fine.

Outside of the time the girl's bathroom flooded at an Ozzfest I went to, I can't think of a single instance where I was questioning the sex of someone in a bathroom I was using. Maybe I'm being ignorant as I am not transgender, but is this really that big a deal? If you're a guy and you've done yourself up to look like a girl, just go in the women's bathroom. If you're a female who does themselves up to look like a guy, come on in the guy's room and have a seat. Go in whichever bathroom you feel won't result in confrontation or an ass kicking.

I'm failing to see where all the outcry for this is coming from. I went to WCSU, and it being as big of an art school as it was, I was surrounded by a sea of LGBT community members. I don't remember this ever being brought up in any context.

Offline lordxizor

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2016, 07:10:47 AM »
It's not a big deal. Conservative politicians just want us to think it is.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2016, 07:30:58 AM »
It's not a big deal. Conservative politicians just want us to think it is.

That's one way of looking at it.

Or "it's not a big deal.  Overzealous activists just want us to think it is."    It takes two sides to have a fight.  Honestly, I think all sides are wrong on this.   Our lawmakers shouldn't be wasting time with this, but on the same token, does it really, ultimately, help the cause to be making these relatively petty fights?   I have this conversation with my 15-year-old daughter often, about agendas, and when the agenda moves from "need" to "want", or "fair" to "greedy", and I think in these cases the LGBT agenda has crossed into "greedy".  At this point, in a lot of ways, the LGBT has moved to the point that they have, in effect, MORE rights because of their sexual preference* than the average person should have.   I, as a straight male, do not have a choice what restroom I use; I HAVE to use the male restroom, because I have a penis (and what a penis!).  Someone who self-identifies as a "transgender" essentially has a choice to use whichever restroom they want. 

I am not at all making a joke here, but I feel like as long as we treat all PENISES (or VAGINAS) the same, there really isn't a legitimate call for "discrimination".   It's really not a discrimination issue at that point, but rather a personal preference issue.   Once we devolve - yes, I chose that word carefully - into a preference issue, all laws basically become useless, because theoretically, there are 315 million different "preferences".   

* using this loosely to cover the defining nature of the LGBT platform.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 10:18:57 AM by Stadler »

Offline cramx3

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2016, 07:40:40 AM »
It's not a big issue for me.  I'm not transgender so it has no impact, I don't care who is standing next to me or sitting next to me in the bathroom, sucks for you if it's a #2.

I'm fine with whatever the people choose here, shared bathrooms or separate bathrooms or just a new third bathroom in new buildings.  I don't feel this is my fight so I don't have a strong opinion.

Offline Chino

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2016, 07:57:53 AM »
It's not a big issue for me.  I'm not transgender so it has no impact, I don't care who is standing next to me or sitting next to me in the bathroom, sucks for you if it's a #2.

I'm fine with whatever the people choose here, shared bathrooms or separate bathrooms or just a new third bathroom in new buildings.  I don't feel this is my fight so I don't have a strong opinion.

I just get upset at the fact that tax dollars are being spent on this rather than real problems.

Offline Tick

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2016, 08:03:57 AM »
I think Springsteen and Pearl Jam and others boycotting North Carolina events should just play the concerts, and wear "Depends" undergarments so they can boycott the bathrooms.  :)

I personally am not afraid of a transgender person being in the rest room with me, but I know a couple woman who were raped in their youth who have told me it makes them very uncomfortable. Who am I to say suck it up, they just want to take a piss where they feel comfortable? Don't know why those voices don't matter? They should have equal value as its there space as well.
I don't really understand transgender so I won't pretend to understand there plight, but every issue has two sides and it seems if you are against them using the bathrooms that don't match the genitalia in there pants you are intolerant and filled with hate. That's what I'm reading from so many on Facebook. One girl spewing venom saying... "if you are against transgenders using the bathroom they choose you can fuck off and de friend me now because I have no tolerance for you!"
and I like this person, but c'mon get a grip.

I don't see why people can't have an opposing view point anymore without being the devil?
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2016, 08:15:39 AM »
One girl spewing venom saying... "if you are against transgenders using the bathroom they choose you can fuck off and de friend me now because I have no tolerance for you!"
and I like this person, but c'mon get a grip.

I don't see why people can't have an opposing view point anymore without being the devil?

This is a big problem if you ask me.  Those who ask for tolerance but themselves are not.

Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2016, 08:23:41 AM »
As a North Carolina resident, it's been interesting to see all this stuff transpire. I was actually supposed to go to the Boston concert, but it was cancelled.

I think my general opinion here is similar to what's been mentioned above. I think the law was a silly one, and from what I've seen, doesn't seem to have been based off real, practical data, but rather paranoia. I can think of more useful laws that should have been passed. At the same time, some of the activism seems a little over-the-top. I can't help but think there are a lot of activists just trying to get good PR out of all this.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2016, 09:11:20 AM »
It's very simple. If you have a penis you use the mens room. If you have a vagina you use the womens. It's not about how you identify or making some grand statement to society...it's about using the F'n bathroom when you have to take a dump or pi$$ in which case you use the restroom that been designed for your parts.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2016, 10:17:40 AM »
One girl spewing venom saying... "if you are against transgenders using the bathroom they choose you can fuck off and de friend me now because I have no tolerance for you!"
and I like this person, but c'mon get a grip.

I don't see why people can't have an opposing view point anymore without being the devil?

This is a big problem if you ask me.  Those who ask for tolerance but themselves are not.

Well, you know; I'm "intolerant of intolerance", because two wrongs DO make a right.   

Offline Chino

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2016, 10:28:02 AM »
It's very simple. If you have a penis you use the mens room. If you have a vagina you use the womens.

This person has a vagina. I can kind of see why going into a female bathroom could cause some trouble. I mean, if I was a dad waiting for my young daughter to use the bathroom, I'd definitely notice this person strolling in. I might even be a little concerned if I didn't know they were a female from a reproductive standpoint. I feel like this person should just keep their mouth shut and just go into the men's bathroom. No one is going to notice and we don't have to waste our tax dollars.



Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2016, 10:45:34 AM »
It's very simple. If you have a penis you use the mens room. If you have a vagina you use the womens.
No, it's really NOT that simple.

I think the law was a silly one, and from what I've seen, doesn't seem to have been based off real, practical data, but rather paranoia.
This is true.

Look, as a citizen of the great (?) state of North Carolina, this law is a clusterfuck.

What happened is that the city of Charlotte, in its wisdom, passed a local ordinance basically saying that transgender citizens couldn't be barred from using a public restroom for the gender they identify with.  This was not a problem, as it would result in all of the people who look like men using the men's room, and all of the women who look like women using the women's room.  And besides, it was a Charlotte issue, so NOT an issue anywhere else in the state.

Then our super conservative, anti-LGBT state legislature called a special session to pass a new law, overturning the Charlotte ordinance, stating that people have to use the restroom of the gender they were born with.  This will result now in people who look like men and people who look like women BY LAW having to use the other restroom in public.  This was done on the pretense of "privacy" (whatever that means in the context of a public restroom) and the concerns over possible predator/assault situations happening in public restrooms - which is something that doesn't actually happen, so this is a huge red herring.  Much like our legislature's passing of the voter ID law, to prevent all of that voter fraud that doesn't actually happen.

Moreover, the law also states that LGBT citizens will NEVER be a protected class against discrimination in this state.  In other words, you can be fired for being gay or transgender, and it will always be that way in our state.

Furthermore, the law states that municipalities are forbidden from passing their own local anti-discrimination laws to protect LGBT citizens, or anyone else.

There are also other odious parts of the law which aren't specific to the LGBT community.

So, it's a completely unnecessary and completely shitty law that was passed by a bunch of white male conservative Christians who can't abide the fact that there might be someone different somewhere in the world.  It is being prodded by super-conservative Christian groups such as the Liberty Counsel, and partly in retaliation to the Supreme Court's gay marriage ruling.  Oh, and it's an election year.

I hate that so many entertainers are cancelling concerts here, but I also don't blame them for doing so.  It will eventually result in our state losing a shit-ton of money.  So it isn't actually helping anyone, and it hurting some of our citizens, and our state as a whole.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2016, 10:51:29 AM »
It's very simple. If you have a penis you use the mens room. If you have a vagina you use the womens.
No, it's really NOT that simple.

I think we will always disagree on that then.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2016, 11:20:39 AM »
Look at it this way.  You see yourself as male, so you are comfortable around other males, and are comfortable using male restrooms, and would be uncomfortable using a female restroom.

It's the same thing with transgender people.  It 's just that they have a different set of plumbing.

But since you identify as male, you wouldn't want to be forced to use female restrooms.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2016, 11:46:48 AM »
It's very simple. If you have a penis you use the mens room. If you have a vagina you use the womens.
No, it's really NOT that simple.

I think we will always disagree on that then.

I think it's easy to say it's that simple, but I am not a transgender person and have no idea what it's like to be in their shoes.  Hence why I feel this debate is not for me. 
« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 12:06:21 PM by cramx3 »

Offline Stadler

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2016, 12:01:54 PM »
Look at it this way.  You see yourself as male, so you are comfortable around other males, and are comfortable using male restrooms, and would be uncomfortable using a female restroom.

It's the same thing with transgender people.  It 's just that they have a different set of plumbing.

But since you identify as male, you wouldn't want to be forced to use female restrooms.

I would.  In a heartbeat.  HEY NOW!!!

I kid. 

a bunch of white male conservative Christians

I think as much as I love the political discussions, here and elsewhere, this is what saddens me most.   I looked, I reread, I tried to find a way to argue with this, and I can't.   Yet... that's me.   I am white, I am male, I am conservative, and I am Christian (albeit, Catholic, not Evangelical, which is I think what you mean).   And I could give a shit (see what I did there?) where anyone drops their deuce. 

But having said that, some of this HAS to be a little more pragmatic.  It's not Charlotte's fault, necessarily, but did they NEED that initial law?  Does Chino's picture guy NEED to advertise "Hey, packin' a clitoris, here!" before he goes in?  I guess I struggle at understanding what the ACTUAL fight is. 

Offline kaos2900

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2016, 12:05:33 PM »
It's very simple. If you have a penis you use the mens room. If you have a vagina you use the womens. It's not about how you identify or making some grand statement to society...it's about using the F'n bathroom when you have to take a dump or pi$$ in which case you use the restroom that been designed for your parts.

100% this. Personally I don't care who i piss next too. But how in the blue hell is this going to be enforced? What if some pedophile claims to be trans-gendered and walks into the girls bathroom and watches my wife or daughter take a piss? I take huge issue with that. Plus I have to laugh at these artists and companies boycotting NC when they have offices and put on performances in countries where gays still get stoned to death. The other option is too have third bathroom where anyone can use it. But, if you have a dick you're physically a man and need to use the men's room.

This is just another example of why I feel this country and society in general is fucked. The needs of the few are outweighing the needs of the many.

Offline Chino

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2016, 12:11:19 PM »
It's very simple. If you have a penis you use the mens room. If you have a vagina you use the womens. It's not about how you identify or making some grand statement to society...it's about using the F'n bathroom when you have to take a dump or pi$$ in which case you use the restroom that been designed for your parts.
*snip*
But, if you have a dick you're physically a man and need to use the men's room.
*snip*


This person has a dick.



If I was the person pictured above, I'd be terrified to walk into a men's bathroom 1) Someone would take a picture of me and post it on social media. 2) Some loud mouth douche bag would probably knock me out. Though if I was this person, I would just use the female bathroom regardless of what the law says, and society wouldn't have a clue.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 12:17:59 PM by Chino »

Offline Adami

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2016, 12:14:56 PM »
It's very simple. If you have a penis you use the mens room. If you have a vagina you use the womens. It's not about how you identify or making some grand statement to society...it's about using the F'n bathroom when you have to take a dump or pi$$ in which case you use the restroom that been designed for your parts.

100% this. Personally I don't care who i piss next too. But how in the blue hell is this going to be enforced? What if some pedophile claims to be trans-gendered and walks into the girls bathroom and watches my wife or daughter take a piss? I take huge issue with that. Plus I have to laugh at these artists and companies boycotting NC when they have offices and put on performances in countries where gays still get stoned to death. The other option is too have third bathroom where anyone can use it. But, if you have a dick you're physically a man and need to use the men's room.

This is just another example of why I feel this country and society in general is fucked. The needs of the few are outweighing the needs of the many.

1. You're going to deny all transgender people rights just because one or two might be a pedophile? What about cisgender pedophile men? Any man next to you in a bathroom might be a rapist. He might want to rape you. He might want to rape your children. It's unlikely, yet it's oddly more likely than what you're suggesting.

2. It's super easy for a cisgender man to tell non-cisgender people how they should act. But why? Let it go.

3. What rights of the many? You have a right to force transgender people to use the bathroom they're uncomfortable with? What right is being denied to you?
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Offline Tick

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2016, 12:15:47 PM »
But isn't their 2 sides to this issue?
 
Does the woman who raped or abused have to be ok with a person of the opposite sex being in the bathroom with them? That hardly seems fair that if they are uncomfortable with that its hey, too bad? He thinks shes a woman so deal with it.

I'm old and I'm a "white conservative male" (minus any wealth that goes with that stigma cause I'm a piss poor slouch), but to me the world has truly gone mad when we have to have discussions on which bathroom a person can use based on there feelings. I have a hard time with that.



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Offline Adami

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2016, 12:18:18 PM »
But isn't their 2 sides to this issue?
 
Does the woman who raped or abused have to be ok with a person of the opposite sex being in the bathroom with them? That hardly seems fair that if they are uncomfortable with that its hey, too bad? He thinks shes a woman so deal with it.

I'm old and I'm a "white conservative male" (minus any wealth that goes with that stigma cause I'm a piss poor slouch), but to me the world has truly gone mad when we have to have discussions on which bathroom a person can use based on there feelings. I have a hard time with that.

Why does a roman who was raped have to be on a beach with other men? Why do they have to be in an elevator together? Why does a bathroom become this haven of rape all of the sudden? How many rapes happen in a bathroom compared to elsewhere?

Also, not to be rude, but who cares if you have a hard time with that? Some older people might have a hard time with interracial marriages. Who cares? You literally just said that you have a hard time with someone choosing their bathroom based on their feelings, but you are also arguing denying them that right....based on YOUR feelings.
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Offline Tick

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2016, 12:19:24 PM »
It's very simple. If you have a penis you use the mens room. If you have a vagina you use the womens. It's not about how you identify or making some grand statement to society...it's about using the F'n bathroom when you have to take a dump or pi$$ in which case you use the restroom that been designed for your parts.
*snip*
But, if you have a dick you're physically a man and need to use the men's room.
*snip*


This person has a dick.



If I was the person pictured above, I'd be terrified to walk into a men's bathroom 1) Someone would take a picture of me and post it on social media. 2) Some loud mouth douche bag would probably knock me out. Though if I was this person, I would just use the female bathroom regardless of what the law says, and society wouldn't have a clue.
Why live like that? Get a vagina, no?
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Offline Chino

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2016, 12:23:41 PM »
I imagine that can't be a cheap surgery, and I'd be surprised if any of it was covered by insurance.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2016, 12:31:05 PM »
What if some pedophile claims to be trans-gendered and walks into the girls bathroom and watches my wife or daughter take a piss?
Then they are a criminal and should be punished?  Which is already the case?
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Offline Tick

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2016, 12:31:51 PM »
But isn't their 2 sides to this issue?
 
Does the woman who raped or abused have to be ok with a person of the opposite sex being in the bathroom with them? That hardly seems fair that if they are uncomfortable with that its hey, too bad? He thinks shes a woman so deal with it.

I'm old and I'm a "white conservative male" (minus any wealth that goes with that stigma cause I'm a piss poor slouch), but to me the world has truly gone mad when we have to have discussions on which bathroom a person can use based on there feelings. I have a hard time with that.

Why does a roman who was raped have to be on a beach with other men? Why do they have to be in an elevator together? Why does a bathroom become this haven of rape all of the sudden? How many rapes happen in a bathroom compared to elsewhere?

Also, not to be rude, but who cares if you have a hard time with that? Some older people might have a hard time with interracial marriages. Who cares? You literally just said that you have a hard time with someone choosing their bathroom based on their feelings, but you are also arguing denying them that right....based on YOUR feelings.
I won't get too personal on this but it goes deeper than how I feel about it personally. I won't say more than that cause that's my personal shit, and don't want to even hear any backlash were I to share it.
Also, not to be rude to you but just because you think your feelings are the valid ones, doesn't make my view any less valid in my eyes or the eyes of many others. What baring does interracial marriage on this? They effect no one else so I don't see that as a good analogy.
As I said earlier, too many people feel there views are right and no one should disagree with them. I do disagree so you need to come to terms with that rather than tell me how wrong I am based on your personal feelings on this.
I never tried to tell anyone here they can't feel as they do about this issue. Its there right. Its your right and I'm cool with it but please don't tell me I can't feel a certain way or that that way is wrong because its wrong to you.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 12:43:50 PM by Tick »
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Offline Tick

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2016, 12:33:47 PM »
I imagine that can't be a cheap surgery, and I'd be surprised if any of it was covered by insurance.
Probably not, but it should be. It would be the right thing to do.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2016, 12:41:20 PM »
a bunch of white male conservative Christians

I think as much as I love the political discussions, here and elsewhere, this is what saddens me most.   I looked, I reread, I tried to find a way to argue with this, and I can't.   Yet... that's me.   I am white, I am male, I am conservative, and I am Christian (albeit, Catholic, not Evangelical, which is I think what you mean).   
Indeed.  You are a conservative and a Christian, but I don't get the sense that you are a conservative Christian.

These guys are both.  Representatives from the urban centers tend to be less conservative, while those from rural areas (most of the state) tend to be more conservative. 
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Offline Adami

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2016, 12:42:50 PM »
But isn't their 2 sides to this issue?
 
Does the woman who raped or abused have to be ok with a person of the opposite sex being in the bathroom with them? That hardly seems fair that if they are uncomfortable with that its hey, too bad? He thinks shes a woman so deal with it.

I'm old and I'm a "white conservative male" (minus any wealth that goes with that stigma cause I'm a piss poor slouch), but to me the world has truly gone mad when we have to have discussions on which bathroom a person can use based on there feelings. I have a hard time with that.

Why does a roman who was raped have to be on a beach with other men? Why do they have to be in an elevator together? Why does a bathroom become this haven of rape all of the sudden? How many rapes happen in a bathroom compared to elsewhere?

Also, not to be rude, but who cares if you have a hard time with that? Some older people might have a hard time with interracial marriages. Who cares? You literally just said that you have a hard time with someone choosing their bathroom based on their feelings, but you are also arguing denying them that right....based on YOUR feelings.
I won't get too personal on this but it goes deeper than how I feel about it personally. I won't say more than that cause that's my personal shit, and don't want to even hear any backlash were I to share it.
Also, not to be rude to you but just because you think your feelings are the valid ones, doesn't make my view any less valid in my eyes or the eyes of many others. What baring does interracial marriage on this? They effect no one else so I don't see that as a good analogy.
As I said earlier, too people feel there views are right and no one should disagree with them. I do disagree so you need to come to terms with that rather than tell me how wrong I am based on your personal feelings on this.
I never tried to tell anyone here they can't feel as they do about this issue. Its there right. Its your right and I'm cool with it but please don't tell me I can't feel a certain way or that that way is wrong because its wrong to you.

Sorry if that's how it came across. I don't want to tell you how to feel. I'll challenge you, which I think is healthy, but you're free to feel how you do. I just don't agree with your feelings being used to tell others how to live. If you're actually saying that this is just your ideal world, but in reality you're okay with giving transgender people these rights, then we square. But I disagree if you're saying how things SHOULD be based solely on how you feel about another group of people. That's not freedom.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2016, 12:44:12 PM »
I imagine that can't be a cheap surgery, and I'd be surprised if any of it was covered by insurance.
Probably not, but it should be. It would be the right thing to do.

Covering it should be the right thing to do? I agree and I think some insurances do cover it.

Getting the surgery should be the right thing to do? That's 100% up to the person and no one else.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2016, 12:49:46 PM »
I was going to start a thread on this, but I didn't know where I was going to go with it.

On one side of my brain, I say

It's very simple. If you have a penis you use the mens room. If you have a vagina you use the womens.

That rule seems pretty straightforward, and if you are transgender and offended or uncomfortable with it, I would say that we can't always change/enact laws to make everyone feel comfortable/happy. Because for every person you are going to make comfortable/happy, you are going to do the opposite to someone else. And that isn't how we should be making laws anyway.

Then the other part of my brain doesn't really give a crud which bathroom people use. Just get in, do your business, and get out. And we can all go about our lives. 
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Offline portnoy311

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2016, 01:23:59 PM »
I guess what's lost here is, who is actually looking at other people's genitals? I imagine transgendered people mostly use stalls, so why not just let them go where they are comfortable? Are you really scoping out penises and vaginas when you do your business? Or are we worried that transgendered people are suddenly sex offenders who are looking to molest people? Why does this matter? Justo go where it makes someone comfortable, IMO.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2016, 01:52:47 PM »
It's very simple. If you have a penis you use the mens room. If you have a vagina you use the womens. It's not about how you identify or making some grand statement to society...it's about using the F'n bathroom when you have to take a dump or pi$$ in which case you use the restroom that been designed for your parts.

100% this. Personally I don't care who i piss next too. But how in the blue hell is this going to be enforced? What if some pedophile claims to be trans-gendered and walks into the girls bathroom and watches my wife or daughter take a piss? I take huge issue with that. Plus I have to laugh at these artists and companies boycotting NC when they have offices and put on performances in countries where gays still get stoned to death. The other option is too have third bathroom where anyone can use it. But, if you have a dick you're physically a man and need to use the men's room.

This is just another example of why I feel this country and society in general is fucked. The needs of the few are outweighing the needs of the many.

1. You're going to deny all transgender people rights just because one or two might be a pedophile? What about cisgender pedophile men? Any man next to you in a bathroom might be a rapist. He might want to rape you. He might want to rape your children. It's unlikely, yet it's oddly more likely than what you're suggesting.

2. It's super easy for a cisgender man to tell non-cisgender people how they should act. But why? Let it go.

3. What rights of the many? You have a right to force transgender people to use the bathroom they're uncomfortable with? What right is being denied to you?

But this is the underlying point; you're making logical arguments, but you're not really answering the question, are you?  If it was about "telling people what bathroom to use", they already had that.   Before this uproar, as Chino has pointed out too many times to count, that "guy" (I say that to differentiate, not out of disrespect) in the polka dotted dress would never, in a million years, been denied access to any bathroom.  Not for having a ween, certainly.  But no, the "movement" had to go and make point.  Had to get it in writing so to speak, and what for?  They won a battle and lost the war and are now crying about it. 

I think "rights" are being somewhat abused here, because as a threshold issue, NO ONE has a RIGHT to a bathroom.  In federal buildings they are at the pleasure of the agency responsible for keeping that building open, and in a privately-owned building, they are at the pleasure of the owner (except in rare cases where the type of establishment demands a bathroom, but even then, no individual has a RIGHT to that bathroom).   

Offline Stadler

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2016, 01:55:49 PM »

Also, not to be rude, but who cares if you have a hard time with that? Some older people might have a hard time with interracial marriages. Who cares? You literally just said that you have a hard time with someone choosing their bathroom based on their feelings, but you are also arguing denying them that right....based on YOUR feelings.

Not speaking for Tick here at all, since he can do that for himself, but again, I respectfully say, you're not really answering the question.  Allowing access to Bathroom A based on whether there is an XX or XY chromosome is not at all in any way basing it on "feelings".  That is a factual, demonstrative determination. 

The more I write about this, the more I feel this arguing for the sake of arguing. (I mean at the state level, not here in the forum).

Offline Stadler

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2016, 01:58:39 PM »
I guess what's lost here is, who is actually looking at other people's genitals? I imagine transgendered people mostly use stalls, so why not just let them go where they are comfortable? Are you really scoping out penises and vaginas when you do your business? Or are we worried that transgendered people are suddenly sex offenders who are looking to molest people? Why does this matter? Justo go where it makes someone comfortable, IMO.

You never sneak a peak at the guy next to you just to see how you compare?  C'mon, no?  Never? 

More importantly, are transgender more or less likely to courtesy flush? That's really the issue for me. 

Offline Chino

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2016, 02:00:21 PM »
I guess what's lost here is, who is actually looking at other people's genitals? I imagine transgendered people mostly use stalls, so why not just let them go where they are comfortable? Are you really scoping out penises and vaginas when you do your business? Or are we worried that transgendered people are suddenly sex offenders who are looking to molest people? Why does this matter? Justo go where it makes someone comfortable, IMO.

You never sneak a peak at the guy next to you just to see how you compare?  C'mon, no?  Never?