Do you agree or disagree with the new "no cameras" rule?

[cramx3]

DT must be frustrated. They have adjusted to the realities of music piracy by basically releasing their last two albums for free on their official Youtube channel. And now they are being asked to give in once again "hey let us video your whole show for free also. It's today's reality!"

I don't understand why they would be frustrated with people wanting to enjoy the concerts and share their fun with friends.  But to each their own.

If you are a band whose album sales are not really giving you enough for a living because of music piracy, and you are mostly reliant on touring for your living. Would you want people getting high quality vids of your shows, or worst case livestreaming the shows, and letting other people watch the shows for free online? I have seen livestreams of other artists online and it sucks for the artist, especially when I see how many people watch the livestream (usually more than those in live attendance).

Yes, some are just sharing them to a limited circle of friends. But DT and management can not really separate people who do limited sharing and those who don't. All they see are cameras. The best way is to just ban any form of recording.

The people who would rather watch a youtube video of a concert (even a great quality video) and not attend a concert are most likely the people not attending the concert anyway.  There is no experience the same as actually being there, including the professional blu rays DT release.  It's not the same, at all.  I'm sure there are some like that, but that is going to be a very small amount of fans who decide not to go to a concert because they can watch it online instead.

[KevShmev]

Absolutely ridiculous! We are in an age of technology, any douche can sneak in a go-pro and bootleg the entire show. Why not embrace technology and let your fans take a few pix as memorabilia? All they will do is post it all over social media and help publicize your band! Would they be afraid of their hair being messed up in a picture? It's sad that you have people policing the venue and throwing people out or trying to take their possessions over being a fan and trying to capture a moment in time that means something to you. When i saw DT for the SFAM tour at the Oakdale I brought a camera, took a few pix and some guy working there ripped it out of my hands and told me I had a choice, I could leave or he was taking the camera. I've been irked by going to a show to cut loose a little and enjoy a band I help support only to have to obey rules, no cameras, stay seated, be a good boy. 

I seriously doubt DT cares about their hair being messed up.

Just because you bought a ticket to the show doesn't give you the right to take any picture or video you want at it. 

I get that we live in an age now where many think they are entitled to do whatever they want, when they want, rules be damned, but if the band asks for no cameras or anything, isn't it basically giving them the middle finger to ignore the request and do it anyway?

Call me crazy, but my great memories of the many concerts I have seen are all in my head, and that's good enough for me.

I never said that because I bought a ticket it gives me the right to film, I just think it's ridiculous that they are so strict about it. These are your fans here and not trying to do anything other than show their love for the band. There is definitely a weird vibe for me from DT on this tour, something I've never experienced from them after seeing them so many times over the years. The whole strict no camera, no standing rules and minimal crowd engagement was a turn off for me.

Nothing shows your love for the band like going to the show and giving them your full, undivided attention.

Plus, over the years, people with phones have gotten more and more annoying and distracting at concerts.  It's easy to say, "Ignore them," but they are everywhere, so you cannot. Banning them altogether is the way to go. 

[King Postwhore]

Well I just wanted a few pictures but when you are told you can't even pull out your cell phone before the show starts and threatened to be thrown out the first time it passes you off as a fan.

How will the marshals distinguish among the hundreds of people those who just want to take some pics from those who is videoing the whole thing?

Ones who constantly abuse taking pictures or ones filming. It is their job to monitor so do it.

[YtseJam]

Absolutely ridiculous! We are in an age of technology, any douche can sneak in a go-pro and bootleg the entire show. Why not embrace technology and let your fans take a few pix as memorabilia? All they will do is post it all over social media and help publicize your band! Would they be afraid of their hair being messed up in a picture? It's sad that you have people policing the venue and throwing people out or trying to take their possessions over being a fan and trying to capture a moment in time that means something to you. When i saw DT for the SFAM tour at the Oakdale I brought a camera, took a few pix and some guy working there ripped it out of my hands and told me I had a choice, I could leave or he was taking the camera. I've been irked by going to a show to cut loose a little and enjoy a band I help support only to have to obey rules, no cameras, stay seated, be a good boy. 

I seriously doubt DT cares about their hair being messed up.

Just because you bought a ticket to the show doesn't give you the right to take any picture or video you want at it. 

I get that we live in an age now where many think they are entitled to do whatever they want, when they want, rules be damned, but if the band asks for no cameras or anything, isn't it basically giving them the middle finger to ignore the request and do it anyway?

Call me crazy, but my great memories of the many concerts I have seen are all in my head, and that's good enough for me.

I never said that because I bought a ticket it gives me the right to film, I just think it's ridiculous that they are so strict about it. These are your fans here and not trying to do anything other than show their love for the band. There is definitely a weird vibe for me from DT on this tour, something I've never experienced from them after seeing them so many times over the years. The whole strict no camera, no standing rules and minimal crowd engagement was a turn off for me.

Nothing shows your love for the band like going to the show and giving them your full, undivided attention.

Plus, over the years, people with phones have gotten more and more annoying and distracting at concerts.  It's easy to say, "Ignore them," but they are everywhere, so you cannot. Banning them altogether is the way to go. 

Ummm no

[erwinrafael]

Well I just wanted a few pictures but when you are told you can't even pull out your cell phone before the show starts and threatened to be thrown out the first time it passes you off as a fan.

How will the marshals distinguish among the hundreds of people those who just want to take some pics from those who is videoing the whole thing?

Ones who constantly abuse taking pictures or ones filming. It is their job to monitor so do it.

As somebody who had experience organizing events, this is close to logistically impossible with large crowds. Monitor each one of the hundreds (or thousands) and try to remember who in the audience is consistently abusing and who is just doing occasional shots? Not feasible.

[King Postwhore]

It's just not that smart to do to the fans.

[red barchetta]

They are not all crappy.

Yes they are. 

You just can't capture the sound of a concert authentically with a phone.

All they will do is post it all over social media and help publicize your band!

Um, what? Who sees a picture of a band performing and goes "That's a cool picture, I'm going to buy some of their albums"? I'm pretty sure that 99% of the people who would see the picture wouldn't care at all. Also, professional photographers do the job just fine anyway.

No you're wrong about some live recordings. Some guys are really doing great stuff. I guess it depends of the material they use. Have a look at Rush last tour, pretty amazing stuff. Didn't have to buy the live dvd they released..... Just for this time.

[erwinrafael]

It's just not that smart to do to the fans.

But fans of other artists do not have a problem with such policies. It's just a simple "no pictures allowed" rule, which is actually the norm, not the exception, in the performing arts industry.

[red barchetta]

                                                                                                 ^^^

They are not all crappy.

Yes they are. 

You just can't capture the sound of a concert authentically with a phone.

If I may point to one of my recently recorded videos as a counter-example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4d0GB26Bds

Wow, great stuff. Of course not as good as a dvd but excellent quality.

[King Postwhore]

It's just not that smart to do to the fans.

But fans of other artists do not have a problem with such policies. It's just a simple "no pictures allowed" rule, which is actually the norm, not the exception, in the performing arts industry.

You say that but I take a few pictures at every show and never have that issue. I think you are overstating your point. If you dealt with what I dealt with this past Tuesday night you would see it differently.

Btw, when is it up to the performer to tell me how to enjoy their music?  I'm the customer here.

[KevShmev]

Btw, when is it up to the performer to tell me how to enjoy their music?  I'm the customer here.

The customer is not always right.

Ummm no

Yes.

[King Postwhore]

 

Kev you would have lost your mind. I had my cell phone out before the show and I was told they would throw me out if I pulled it out again.  The house lights were on.

Then the same thing durring the intermission with other people around me. 

[KevShmev]

So...don't look at your phone for a few hours.  I don't see what the big deal is.  I really don't, especially you're old enough to remember such times, unlike a lot of young people, who don't know anything other than being glued to your phone 24/7.

[erwinrafael]

You say that but I take a few pictures at every show and never have that issue. I think you are overstating your point. If you dealt with what I dealt with this past Tuesday night you would see it differently.

Btw, when is it up to the performer to tell me how to enjoy their music?  I'm the customer here.

Well, I am used to watching shows where celfones and cameras are surrendered at the gate and where the shows often remind people at the start to turn off celfones and to not use cameras. This is the norm in theater settings.

The situation is different in open-air concerts where it is quite relaxed.

I agree that maybe they have gone overboard to ban celfone use during intermissions, but maybe it's more of the theater staff's interpretation. I think the band is really just concerned about use during the performance itself.

[King Postwhore]

I've been to every show imaginable. Never have they stopped me I over 150 plus concerts.

[BelichickFan]

Kev you would have lost your mind. I had my cell phone out before the show and I was told they would throw me out if I pulled it out again.  The house lights were on.

Then the same thing durring the intermission with other people around me.

Totally unacceptable.  Not allowing recording is one thing, this is another.  If they want to make life miserable for their fans, attendance will continue to drop . . .

[DreamTheaterMM]

I spoke with Maddie backstage in wallingford. He specifically said (after I asked him) This rule could possibly stay forever...the guys all get really annoyed when they're up on stage and they see 90% of the people recording. Not only this but he said that it had to do with some merchandise thing?

[erwinrafael]

I spoke with Maddie backstage in wallingford. He specifically said (after I asked him) This rule could possibly stay forever...the guys all get really annoyed when they're up on stage and they see 90% of the people recording.

It is annoying. It was annoying when I was still part of a performing group more than ten years ago when people still use cameras, I imagine it is more annoying now with almost all people having cameras with their smart phones.

[KevShmev]

I've been to every show imaginable. Never have they stopped me I over 150 plus concerts.

You saw Starship on the Knee Deep in the Hoopla tour?? I knew it.

I spoke with Maddie backstage in wallingford. He specifically said (after I asked him) This rule could possibly stay forever...the guys all get really annoyed when they're up on stage and they see 90% of the people recording. Not only this but he said that it had to do with some merchandise thing?

Good. That has to be frustrating to be performing and look out and see so many people playing with their phones instead of focusing on the show.  Now, it's true that you cannot force fans to focus solely on you, but by not allowing phones and cameras, it takes away a big distraction and makes it far more likely that those fans will be more focused on the show. Bravo to the band.

[Shooters1221]

So...don't look at your phone for a few hours.  I don't see what the big deal is.  I really don't, especially you're old enough to remember such times, unlike a lot of young people, who don't know anything other than being glued to your phone 24/7.

Exactly.....perfectly put!!!!!

I said earlier in this thread that, as a fan I don't care about this topic, but I was wrong, I do care if someone holding a phone up to video is blocking my view of the show. That phone will be mine/destroyed, and I will watch that show without the obstruction. If you don't block my view, then do what you want....have a great day! Peace and Love, Peace and Love.

[BlobVanDam]

DT must be frustrated. They have adjusted to the realities of music piracy by basically releasing their last two albums for free on their official Youtube channel. And now they are being asked to give in once again "hey let us video your whole show for free also. It's today's reality!"

I don't understand why they would be frustrated with people wanting to enjoy the concerts and share their fun with friends.  But to each their own.

If you are a band whose album sales are not really giving you enough for a living because of music piracy, and you are mostly reliant on touring for your living. Would you want people getting high quality vids of your shows, or worst case livestreaming the shows, and letting other people watch the shows for free online? I have seen livestreams of other artists online and it sucks for the artist, especially when I see how many people watch the livestream (usually more than those in live attendance).

Yes, some are just sharing them to a limited circle of friends. But DT and management can not really separate people who do limited sharing and those who don't. All they see are cameras. The best way is to just ban any form of recording.

The people who would rather watch a youtube video of a concert (even a great quality video) and not attend a concert are most likely the people not attending the concert anyway.  There is no experience the same as actually being there, including the professional blu rays DT release.  It's not the same, at all.  I'm sure there are some like that, but that is going to be a very small amount of fans who decide not to go to a concert because they can watch it online instead.

Bingo. Live clips are no substitute for the live experience. By the same logic, people would skip live shows if they have the songs on a live DVD already. Live clips are like a trailer for the live show at best. If a band is sounding especially good, it pumps you up to go and see them, and if they suck, well you deserve to know what you're getting in advance.
For the record, I've never once taken a photo at a concert, and never used a phone at a concert at all (incidentally except the last DT show, but I wasn't with the crowd anyway), but I've never had any issue with other people taking photos/videos at a concert disturbing me. It's the guys getting into the show a little too much, headbanging and moving around that disturb me.

[ad78]

Dream theater is a very different from all other performing on stage. They want to be more precise on what they do. Most of the people taking pictures tend to put flash..

[rumborak]

I guess you had to be there it was bad. No fan should be treated like I saw.

This, seriously. It was the fucking Stasi walking down the aisles, reporting any un-kosher movement.

[Enigmachine]

So...don't look at your phone for a few hours.  I don't see what the big deal is.  I really don't, especially you're old enough to remember such times, unlike a lot of young people, who don't know anything other than being glued to your phone 24/7.

I agree with this. There seems to be a sense of entitlement in the situation here, like "I paid for the show, I can do anything I want!". It's really not a big deal to not use your phone / camera during the concert. If the staff is harsh about it especially, it's best to just relax and enjoy the performance, which I certainly did, helped by the fact that my view wasn't obstructed by someone recording the show unlike in 2014 (it didn't help that I'm around 5'5" and couldn't reach above them, so I basically couldn't see the band apart from occasional glances and on the screen).

[King Postwhore]

I've been to every show imaginable. Never have they stopped me I over 150 plus concerts.

You saw Starship on the Knee Deep in the Hoopla tour?? I knew it.

I spoke with Maddie backstage in wallingford. He specifically said (after I asked him) This rule could possibly stay forever...the guys all get really annoyed when they're up on stage and they see 90% of the people recording. Not only this but he said that it had to do with some merchandise thing?

Good. That has to be frustrating to be performing and look out and see so many people playing with their phones instead of focusing on the show.  Now, it's true that you cannot force fans to focus solely on you, but by not allowing phones and cameras, it takes away a big distraction and makes it far more likely that those fans will be more focused on the show. Bravo to the band.

Kev, I did see that tour with Night Ranger!!!

No kidding!!  They opened and closed with We Built This City!

[DragonAttack]

The next thing you know, they'll ban smoking at events...............

[Train of Naught]

The customers should be given some credit to be honest. Sure there's going to be some oddballs who rather 'play on their phone' than pay attention to the show, but it's very obvious that the majority of people are using camera's or phones at a live show to just capture one or two pics and maybe a short video.

I'm not necessarily opposed to the rule, but if DT were actually the ones to enforce this rule (which seems to NOT be the case here, I think it's being enforced by the venues), it would probably not be a vert smart move by them. You'd be surprised how much exposure bands get from pics and videos that people share online through facebook, instagram, reddit and the like.

[YtseJam]

Dream Theater doesn't follow the rules, their music breaks the rules and I'm sure I am not alone in liking that about them, yet here they are now enforcing extra rules at a live concert that only inhibits fan fun. They are acting like ornery old men "damn kids these days with their cell phones!" It's just a turn off altogether and I do not respect their wishes over these rules. It is a fact that many fans have alienated themselves from DT especially after this latest release and this lame crap that is happening now isn't gaining them any popularity or helping sell more tickets. Not one of my friends wanted to go to this show so it was just me and my woman but I am glad because they would have all been pissed if they did go.

[KevShmev]

Dream Theater doesn't follow the rules, their music breaks the rules and I'm sure I am not alone in liking that about them, yet here they are now enforcing extra rules at a live concert that only inhibits fan fun. They are acting like ornery old men "damn kids these days with their cell phones!" It's just a turn off altogether and I do not respect their wishes over these rules. It is a fact that many fans have alienated themselves from DT especially after this latest release and this lame crap that is happening now isn't gaining them any popularity or helping sell more tickets. Not one of my friends wanted to go to this show so it was just me and my woman but I am glad because they would have all been pissed if they did go.

Can you prove that this rule is costing them ticket sales?

I'll hang up and listen.

[KevShmev]

I've been to every show imaginable. Never have they stopped me I over 150 plus concerts.

You saw Starship on the Knee Deep in the Hoopla tour?? I knew it.

I spoke with Maddie backstage in wallingford. He specifically said (after I asked him) This rule could possibly stay forever...the guys all get really annoyed when they're up on stage and they see 90% of the people recording. Not only this but he said that it had to do with some merchandise thing?

Good. That has to be frustrating to be performing and look out and see so many people playing with their phones instead of focusing on the show.  Now, it's true that you cannot force fans to focus solely on you, but by not allowing phones and cameras, it takes away a big distraction and makes it far more likely that those fans will be more focused on the show. Bravo to the band.

Kev, I did see that tour with Night Ranger!!!

No kidding!!  They opened and closed with We Built This City!

Woah.

It must have taken balls the size of church bells to admit that.

[King Postwhore]

 

I was there for Night Ranger.  I SWEAR!!

[KevShmev]

I really want to believe you.

[King Postwhore]

Lol

They actually were good. Hearing the late 70's early 80's were cool like Jane & Find Your Way Back.

[YtseJam]

Dream Theater doesn't follow the rules, their music breaks the rules and I'm sure I am not alone in liking that about them, yet here they are now enforcing extra rules at a live concert that only inhibits fan fun. They are acting like ornery old men "damn kids these days with their cell phones!" It's just a turn off altogether and I do not respect their wishes over these rules. It is a fact that many fans have alienated themselves from DT especially after this latest release and this lame crap that is happening now isn't gaining them any popularity or helping sell more tickets. Not one of my friends wanted to go to this show so it was just me and my woman but I am glad because they would have all been pissed if they did go.

Can you prove that this rule is costing them ticket sales?

I'll hang up and listen.

Don't you think people taking pics and posting them on facebook saying how awesome it is will boost ticket sales and interest in the band or do you think people bitching on facebook will motivate ticket sales? Just do a little searching through the Dream Theater posts in FB land and you can see more than plenty of people complaining and expressing disappointment as well as selling off their tickets. I also witnessed many people leave before the first intermission and heard lots of complaining about the "rules" at the show. Many people purchased their tickets including me before this album was released and prior to finding out about no cameras, no standing rules. If I had known, heard the album and read the reviews I probably would not have gone myself either as this last show had no crowd energy at all until the last two songs. I certainly wouldn't have purchased the VIP package either like I did and would have had a better time watching it on a DVD at some point in time. You need proof? Well let's start right here, I will not be buying VIP tickets again or purchasing premium seats again after this experience. I know I'm not the only one and all of my friends who like DT are expressing disinterest in the band altogether unfortunately.

[KevShmev]

Sounds like that has more to do with some not being wild about TA than it does some being sissy girls because the band won't let you play on your phone the whole time at one of their shows.

As much as I like TA, there are definitely a lot of fans who aren't as crazy about it, and I think the nature of that type of concert - playing NO older material and it being more of a seated than standing concert - could definitely hurt them.  If this album had gone over with the fan base as a whole like Scenes did for example, I can guarantee you that very few fans would really care about the no phones/cameras thing (except the FB dopes who love to go on social media and complain about anything), but to those people who aren't wild about TA, the no phones/cameras thing is like kicking them while they are down, metaphorically speaking.