KISS Discography - My Life As a Kiss Fan

[Stadler]

Don't say that too load Hef!

That's a loaded statement.

Oh Shit. Loud!  Loud!

I almost never call people out for grammar/spelling (unless the sitch warrants it) but I opened word, opened a new document, cut and pasted just to read that, and you blow the spelling??   Brah!!!!!!

  I'm kidding.

[King Postwhore]

It's ok.  I have a reputation and it's warranted.

[Stadler]

The real blame was on Gene and Paul.  Ace wanted to do a rock album.  He was outvoted by Gene and Paul.  Their popularity was waning and coming out with a concept album that was not rocking killed it at the time for Kiss.

This made me think. What if Creatures of the night had happened before Music from the elder, would have the situation been different? The fan base would have been brought back to the fold and the band would have been able to try something new. More people would've probably checked it out and appreciated it for being different yet realized it has its share of heavier, classic sounding songs.

Going back through the albums I know (now it's the first 10 - thanks, Stadler), listening to the debut. These are the songs that made me fall in love with the band all those years ago. 

Probably not but at the time it was a nail in the coffin.  They had to cancel a tour because no one wanted to see that live.  Creatures tour was bad filling only 5 to 8 thousand a night.  Though the word was out that Ace wasn't in the band anymore.

Not responding to anyone in particular, just the line of thought, but let's not lose sight of the context.   First, Creatures wouldn't have happened without The Elder.  It just wouldn't have.     Second, I think that the fail of The Elder was more in the marketing and presentation than the music.   There are cringe-worthy moments, to be sure, but is fanfare any worse than Great Expectations?   And "Only You/Under The Rose" isn't that far off musically from the four songs on Killers, which are widely considered to be the 'prequel' to Creatures.   Third, as for Ace, even he admits that he wasn't really in it to win it, regardless, and when Paul told him they WOULD follow his ideas instead of theirs, he didn't take the opportunity. 

I'm not saying you guys are wrong, but for me, what's a better question is if Ace, Gene and Paul said, "let's rebound from The Elder and do a rock album".  I know, Vinnie was sort of the new blood on Creatures, but he only wrote three (two?) songs; if that had those songs, plus a handful of Ace tunes and his soloing?  Creatures could be even better than it was (and for me it's pretty damn good). 

[King Postwhore]

Kiss was losing their core fan base with Dynasty and Unmasked.  They needed at the time to do a hard rock album again.  Durring the mid 70's fans were looking to stretch they musical limits.  Towards 1980 there was a switch.  Prog rock was becoming past tense, it was a bad time to release it.

That's why I mentioned the tour.  Even with no Ace they still has a tour but to have a tour canceled when a new album is coming out?  That spoke volumes.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Don't say that too load Hef!

That's a loaded statement.

Oh Shit. Loud!  Loud!

I almost never call people out for grammar/spelling (unless the sitch warrants it) but I opened word, opened a new document, cut and pasted just to read that, and you blow the spelling??   Brah!!!!!!

  I'm kidding.

If you just quote his post, you don't have to go through all that. Unless I misunderstood something.

[Cyclopssss]

Talking about the Elder is cathartic.  We are all now admitting we like it but couldn't back then.

Not so much liking, it's more understanding it. My ears were not ready back then. It's a very mature album.

[Lowdz]

Talking about the Elder is cathartic.  We are all now admitting we like it but couldn't back then.

Not so much liking, it's more understanding it. My ears were not ready back then. It's a very mature album.

None of my peers liked KISS anyway so I didn't have to defend MFTE anymore than any other KISS album 

[King Postwhore]

Talking about the Elder is cathartic.  We are all now admitting we like it but couldn't back then.

Not so much liking, it's more understanding it. My ears were not ready back then. It's a very mature album.

I would agree but I was also into Queen back then.  I've always liked diversity in bands.

[Cyclopssss]

Also thought the costumes from that period looked pretty rad.

[King Postwhore]

I did as well.

Talking about the Elder is cathartic.  We are all now admitting we like it but couldn't back then.

Not so much liking, it's more understanding it. My ears were not ready back then. It's a very mature album.

None of my peers liked KISS anyway so I didn't have to defend MFTE anymore than any other KISS album 

You should have got rid of them.

[Stadler]

Also thought the costumes from that period looked pretty rad.

I don't disagree (I didn't really hate Paul's short hair or bandana as much as a lot of people did) but I will say this, I think I am in the vast minority of fans when I say that I DEPLORE the alternate characters.  HATED the Fox, and there is no word strong enough for how much I despised The Ankh.   

Ed Trunk is big on saying that "Tommy Thayer and Eric Singer shouldn't be wearing the Spaceman and the Cat; they should have done their own thing" and I disagree with that wholeheartedly.   That was, in my opinion, the single greatest misstep in a career that unfortunately has a couple missteps in it. 

Maybe because I strongly dislike Peter (and feel disrespected by how he quote "played" unquote on the Rockimus Maximus tour) and am indifferent on Ace live (I saw him butcher a fair number of songs in MSG on the reunion tour) but the recent shows I've seen I was able to get lost in the image and have a good time.    In fact, my 15-year-old said this week: "Dad, Kiss is coming to Bridgeport in the fall. Are we going?" as if it was a fait accompli.   


Here's a list for you:
TOP FIVE MISSTEPS IN KISS'S CAREER
- The Fox and The Ankh (though I understand why they had to do The Fox to start with)
- Carnival of Souls (I want to hear about fucking when I listen to Kiss.  Not self-loathing)
- Not touring Creatures in the States
- Mark St. John (should have gone with someone more bluesy, instead of following the shredder theme even further)
- Not getting Bob Ezrin to produce and demanding that Ace and Peter play on Psycho Circus

[King Postwhore]

Stadler, Kiss did tour for Creatures in the States though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatures_of_the_Night_Tour/10th_Anniversary_Tour#Tour_dates

[Cyclopssss]

Well I can see how you view the Cat and the Spaceman as being Icons in the KISS mythology. I personally didn't have any problems with that. The Ankh though? Lame-ass sign to pick. Why not the Sphinx? Or the Pharao? 

[Orbert]

I liked the idea of alternate characters, and thought The Fox was okay.  It made sense; the original four were those individual people.  The Cat was Peter, the Space Guy (I don't know if I've ever known the official name) was Ace.  I'm sure when they were coming up with the concept, the question of what to do should anyone ever leave the band and/or be replaced didn't come up.  So since The Cat was gone, the new drummer would need a new identity, a new character.  The Fox.  The Ankh was lame, but whatever.  By that point, the idea was to continue with each new member having their own identity, so if that's what the guy chose, that's what it was.  And this was what, still back in the 80's?  The very idea of rock bands lasting 20 or 30 years, hell even 10, and just replacing members and continuing, was still pretty new.  I really don't think they had a contingency plan.

I honestly don't like "whoever is currently playing lead guitar is Ace" and "whoever is currently drumming is The Cat".  That's stupid.

[dtvoices94]

I don't have a problem with the new characters as KISS was just doing what was necessary to keep going.  It's easy with the benefit of hindsight to disagree with new characters...who thought KISS would be this iconic (let alone still around) 30 years later?  From a marketing/merchandising perspective, I totally get why Tommy & Eric are the Spaceman and Catman...doesn't mean I have to like it.

KISS's biggest mistake (aside from the Psycho Circus debacle and mishandling of the Eric Carr situation)?  I'd say not going right to Bruce after Vinnie.  It was just an odd time in the mid 80's...MSJ records Animalize (LOL except for Bruce's leads on Lonely is the Hunter and Murder In High Heels...two songs nobody ever listens to anyway) and then suddenly can't tour so Bruce tours with Mark playing here and there when he can.  Bruce eventually gets the job but it was a confusing time in KISStory. 
Mark miraculously healed in time to form and record with White Tiger within two years from his supposed catastrophic "Reiter's Syndrome".

[Stadler]

Stadler, Kiss did tour for Creatures in the States though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatures_of_the_Night_Tour/10th_Anniversary_Tour#Tour_dates

I feel stupid; I could have sworn that they went to Europe, came back and cancelled the tour.

EDIT:  I know what happened; they DID go to Europe, and they DID come back and cancelled a couple SHOWS, but the remainder of the tour went on.  Dammit. 

Sorry, guys.

[Stadler]

KISS's biggest mistake (aside from the Psycho Circus debacle and mishandling of the Eric Carr situation)?  I'd say not going right to Bruce after Vinnie.  It was just an odd time in the mid 80's...MSJ records Animalize (LOL except for Bruce's leads on Lonely is the Hunter and Murder In High Heels...two songs nobody ever listens to anyway) and then suddenly can't tour so Bruce tours with Mark playing here and there when he can.  Bruce eventually gets the job but it was a confusing time in KISStory. 
Mark miraculously healed in time to form and record with White Tiger within two years from his supposed catastrophic "Reiter's Syndrome".

I think there's more to the story there, and for the life of me, with all the mud that Gene and Paul have slung, I wonder why it hasn't come out.   Maybe a confidentiality quid pro quo?  But MSJ is passed, so who cares at this point?  I don't know.

[King Postwhore]

Stadler, Kiss did tour for Creatures in the States though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatures_of_the_Night_Tour/10th_Anniversary_Tour#Tour_dates

I feel stupid; I could have sworn that they went to Europe, came back and cancelled the tour.

EDIT:  I know what happened; they DID go to Europe, and they DID come back and cancelled a couple SHOWS, but the remainder of the tour went on.  Dammit. 

Sorry, guys.

I remember reading a review in the Boston Herald talking about Vinnie's playing and how they only had 5000 people for the show at the Centrum.

[dtvoices94]

KISS's biggest mistake (aside from the Psycho Circus debacle and mishandling of the Eric Carr situation)?  I'd say not going right to Bruce after Vinnie.  It was just an odd time in the mid 80's...MSJ records Animalize (LOL except for Bruce's leads on Lonely is the Hunter and Murder In High Heels...two songs nobody ever listens to anyway) and then suddenly can't tour so Bruce tours with Mark playing here and there when he can.  Bruce eventually gets the job but it was a confusing time in KISStory. 
Mark miraculously healed in time to form and record with White Tiger within two years from his supposed catastrophic "Reiter's Syndrome".

I think there's more to the story there, and for the life of me, with all the mud that Gene and Paul have slung, I wonder why it hasn't come out.   Maybe a confidentiality quid pro quo?  But MSJ is passed, so who cares at this point?  I don't know.

I think they (Paul) quickly realized Mark wasn't a good fit.  From there they needed an out without violating the contract.  I saw Mark at a convention in the 90's and spoke with him briefly and the whole KISS tenure wasn't very glamorous from his vantage point.  There was a lot of stress involved which may or may not have caused the arthritis which evolved into Reiter's Syndrome and gave the KISS Corp the out they needed and allowed MSJ to save face.

[TAC]

That's interesting dtv.

And for anyone questioning tour dates. This is a great site.
https://www.kissmonster.com/tourdates/set_lists.php

[Lynxo]

I'm re-reading Paul Stanley's biography and it's still a very enjoyable read. So many facepalm moments from Peter and Ace, he's not holding back at all.

The funnier moments has surely got to be Ace and Peter's obsession with their dicks. Like randomly telling Paul and Gene how long it is, wipping it out in the dressing room, etc.

[robbob]

Kiss was losing their core fan base with Dynasty and Unmasked.  They needed at the time to do a hard rock album again.  Durring the mid 70's fans were looking to stretch they musical limits.  Towards 1980 there was a switch.  Prog rock was becoming past tense, it was a bad time to release it.

That's why I mentioned the tour.  Even with no Ace they still has a tour but to have a tour canceled when a new album is coming out?  That spoke volumes.

Huge KISS fan when I was a kid in the 70's. Never been more disappointed with the release of a new album then I was with Dynasty, I still clearly remember walking to the local record store with my brother and sister, coming home all excited with Dynasty in my hand. Popping the album on as soon as I got home and being extremely disappointed with it. DISCO!, What !! This isn't real KISS. Of course, at the time my musical tastes were expanding to other Rock and Metal bands.

What a huge disappointment it was. Was young and kinda into the "Disco Sucks" thing, so I was biased. Also, i'm sure if I listen to it now I'll enjoy some songs on it.

But, that was it for me as a fan. A few songs on Creatures sounded good, wasn't into the glam metal scene of their middle/late 80's albums. And when you find out later that Peter and Ace didn't really even record anything or very little on a few of those albums it kinda took away the feel as them being a "true" band. That was one of the reasons I really loved KISS as a kid, 4 different characters that made up this cool band. Unfortunately, 2 of them were idiots. Just my opinion.

[TAC]

So I got an email today from Amazon for KISS' Ritz On Fire CD. It's the '88 Radio broadcast.
https://www.amazon.com/Ritz-Fire-Kiss/dp/B00FXRX1TW/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8


I'm embarrassed to not know this, as I had a copy of the broadcast on cassette years ago, but one of the comments on Amazon states that two songs were cut from the show. Does anyone know which ones?

EDIT: I found my answer via Naked City Boots. It's Bang Bang You and Reason To Live. Won't really miss either, especially BBY which is one of the worst KISS tracks ever.

OK. Gonna order this!

[Lynxo]

I've finished the Peter Criss biography now and man, if nothing else, it was entertaining.

What I found interesting is how fundamentally different Peter Criss and Paul Stanley views the reunion tour. Peter claims he was ripped off and moreover, that Paul and Gene constantly behaved like jackasses towards him. Paul says that Ace and Peter both did what they did in the 70s - drinking, drugging and whining.

I guess the truth is probably somewhere in between.

[Stadler]

I've finished the Peter Criss biography now and man, if nothing else, it was entertaining.

What I found interesting is how fundamentally different Peter Criss and Paul Stanley views the reunion tour. Peter claims he was ripped off and moreover, that Paul and Gene constantly behaved like jackasses towards him. Paul says that Ace and Peter both did what they did in the 70s - drinking, drugging and whining.

I guess the truth is probably somewhere in between.

I think the truth is somewhere in between with Ace, but I don't believe that with Peter.  He's been a bitter, angry guy from the beginning, and honestly I find it hard to believe ANYTHING he says.   Remember:  Peter didn't do a major, headlining arena tour for 16 years between the last tour he did with Kiss, and the Reunion.  I saw them multiple times after the reunion and he gets the nod for the worst performance ever for a major artist on a major tour, for his performance at the Aerosmith show.  I am convinced that there was a drummer backstage. 

Bob Kulick recently revealed that even back in the 70's they had drummer's on call (like he and Dick Wagner were on call for lead guitar) but he couldn't prove which songs were which. 

[TAC]

Neat article. Not much new..

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/an-oral-history-of-kiss-destroyer-its-a-miracle-were-alive-20160315?page=13

[Lynxo]

I've finished the Peter Criss biography now and man, if nothing else, it was entertaining.

What I found interesting is how fundamentally different Peter Criss and Paul Stanley views the reunion tour. Peter claims he was ripped off and moreover, that Paul and Gene constantly behaved like jackasses towards him. Paul says that Ace and Peter both did what they did in the 70s - drinking, drugging and whining.

I guess the truth is probably somewhere in between.

I think the truth is somewhere in between with Ace, but I don't believe that with Peter.  He's been a bitter, angry guy from the beginning, and honestly I find it hard to believe ANYTHING he says.   Remember:  Peter didn't do a major, headlining arena tour for 16 years between the last tour he did with Kiss, and the Reunion.  I saw them multiple times after the reunion and he gets the nod for the worst performance ever for a major artist on a major tour, for his performance at the Aerosmith show.  I am convinced that there was a drummer backstage. 

Bob Kulick recently revealed that even back in the 70's they had drummer's on call (like he and Dick Wagner were on call for lead guitar) but he couldn't prove which songs were which.

I totally agree with you about Peter, I was just being a bit careful in my wording. The book makes it pretty clear that he has no clue about anything.

Neat article. Not much new..

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/an-oral-history-of-kiss-destroyer-its-a-miracle-were-alive-20160315

Fixed the link. Interesting article but as you say, not much new.

[Lowdz]

What I got from the Peter book was, it was all everyone else's fault. Particularly paul and Gene.

[cfmoran13]

The fact that, back in the 70's, Peter would intentionally sabotage his performance is shameful.  I believe it's Largo, MD on the Dynasty tour that he screws up the lyrics to "Beth".  No self-respecting person in his right mind would ever do that.  Especially when it's really like a 2nd solo spot for you in the concert.  And, adding a little tear drop to his makeup in the final days of the Reunion tour?!?  Grow the f*ck up, you big baby!

[cfmoran13]

So I got an email today from Amazon for KISS' Ritz On Fire CD. It's the '88 Radio broadcast.
https://www.amazon.com/Ritz-Fire-Kiss/dp/B00FXRX1TW/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8


I'm embarrassed to not know this, as I had a copy of the broadcast on cassette years ago, but one of the comments on Amazon states that two songs were cut from the show. Does anyone know which ones?

EDIT: I found my answer via Naked City Boots. It's Bang Bang You and Reason To Live. Won't really miss either, especially BBY which is one of the worst KISS tracks ever.

OK. Gonna order this!

I actually bought this bootleg on cassette back in the '80's at a flea market from one of those dudes with 1000's of cassette and video cassette bootlegs for sale.  That was the 102.7 WNEW broadcast, right?  I believe I have this in FLAC form on a hard drive, too.  Good show.

[TAC]

I had it on bootleg too, and listened to it a ton back in the day.

[Stadler]

The fact that, back in the 70's, Peter would intentionally sabotage his performance is shameful.  I believe it's Largo, MD on the Dynasty tour that he screws up the lyrics to "Beth".  No self-respecting person in his right mind would ever do that.  Especially when it's really like a 2nd solo spot for you in the concert.  And, adding a little tear drop to his makeup in the final days of the Reunion tour?!?  Grow the f*ck up, you big baby!

THIS.   2:45 of a song YOU CLAIMED TO WRITE, for your WIFE, and you can't remember the words?   GTFU.   

I'm literally writing this in real time:

Beth I hear you calling, but I can't come home right now
Me and the boys are playing, and we just can't find the sounds...
Just a few more hours, and I'll be right home to you,
I think I hear them calling, oh Beth what can I do... duh duh
Beth what can I do?

Beth I know you're empty, and our house just ain't a home
I'm always somewhere else, and you're always there alone
Just a few more hours, and I'll be right home to you,
I think I hear them calling, oh Beth what can I do... bum bum
Beth what can I do?

Beth I know you're lonely, and I hope you'll be all right
'Cause me and the boys will be playing, all night
Ah-ahhhhhhhhhhhh

[Stadler]

SO I just looked it up.  These are the official lyrics:

Beth, I hear you callin', but I can't come home right now
Me and the boys are playin' and we just can't find the sound
Just a few more hours and I'll be right home to you
I think I hear them callin', oh, Beth what can I do
Beth what can I do

You say you feel so empty, that our house just ain't a home
And I'm always somewhere else and you're always there alone
Just a few more hours, and I'll be right home to you
I think I hear them callin', oh, Beth what can I do
Beth what can I do

Beth, I know you're lonely and I hope you'll be alright
'Cause me and the boys will be playin' all night


I pronounce my "g's", and I had a couple words wrong here or there, but it would pass in front of 10,000 people.  He's unprofessional and childish.   No matter how much Perry and Tyler or Richards and Jagger are pissed off, the show never suffers.

I saw Kiss with Def Leppard, and the first three songs or so were lackluster (I even apologized to my daughter who was at her first Kiss show) and Gene's "flying rig" failed (he got about five feet off the ground and froze; it was kind of funny) and you could tell the band got pissed off.  Gene went to the side and was screaming at a roadie...  from that point on the band went NUTS.  They fucking NAILED IT.  You could literally see them step up (my daughter actually noticed, and said "Dad, what happened??").  Point being, professionals step up and deliver in adversity, losers paint "tear drops" on their face and tank the performance.   

[Lowdz]

The fact that, back in the 70's, Peter would intentionally sabotage his performance is shameful.  I believe it's Largo, MD on the Dynasty tour that he screws up the lyrics to "Beth".  No self-respecting person in his right mind would ever do that.  Especially when it's really like a 2nd solo spot for you in the concert.  And, adding a little tear drop to his makeup in the final days of the Reunion tour?!?  Grow the f*ck up, you big baby!

Did he screw it up on purpose? Probably just off his tits and too lazy to care.

[Stadler]

The fact that, back in the 70's, Peter would intentionally sabotage his performance is shameful.  I believe it's Largo, MD on the Dynasty tour that he screws up the lyrics to "Beth".  No self-respecting person in his right mind would ever do that.  Especially when it's really like a 2nd solo spot for you in the concert.  And, adding a little tear drop to his makeup in the final days of the Reunion tour?!?  Grow the f*ck up, you big baby!

Did he screw it up on purpose? Probably just off his tits and too lazy to care.

I think he copped to sandbagging it, and I know Paul claimed that Peter purposefully would go off script to screw with the other members he was mad at.