Amazing Albums Followed Up By Terrible Albums

[BlobVanDam]

Well as far as no one else expressing negativity towards it, MP is going to be the one to speak up about his true feelings towards something. I don't see anyone else being that outspoken about something they weren't overly thrilled with. They tried to make a more commercial sounding album with songs that might just get radio play. Since when do they care about that? Pressure from the label is what sent them in that direction. There might be a few songs that better reflect them as a band, but there are also songs on that album that I feel the band would have never released if they had their say in everything. I don't think it's narrow-minded to feel that the album was made more under pressure than with the freedom they've had since.

As I said, MP's opinions are irrelevant here, and there was a lot more to the scenario than the music. IaW had their big hit single, Awake had its more accessible tracks too, and DT didn't stop writing those types of songs since having full creative freedom either. In retrospect I don't find FII as much of a departure from their discography as people make it out to be, but definitely a different balance. DT have always changed the balance of elements between albums and continued to adapt and evolve, which to me is keeping with a defining characteristic of the band. It's well known the album had more involvement from the label, and they focused their songwriting more on the restrained side, but that doesn't tarnish or invalidate the end result in any way.

Except for You Not Me. That was undeniable suckage before and after the label got to it.

[Kwyjibo]

As long as the end result is great I don't really care if they had pressure from the label. And I think FII is a great record. And sometimes it's not that bad if a band has outside pressure/influence to stay focussed.

[Prog Snob]

Well as far as no one else expressing negativity towards it, MP is going to be the one to speak up about his true feelings towards something. I don't see anyone else being that outspoken about something they weren't overly thrilled with. They tried to make a more commercial sounding album with songs that might just get radio play. Since when do they care about that? Pressure from the label is what sent them in that direction. There might be a few songs that better reflect them as a band, but there are also songs on that album that I feel the band would have never released if they had their say in everything. I don't think it's narrow-minded to feel that the album was made more under pressure than with the freedom they've had since.

As I said, MP's opinions are irrelevant here, and there was a lot more to the scenario than the music. IaW had their big hit single, Awake had its more accessible tracks too, and DT didn't stop writing those types of songs since having full creative freedom either. In retrospect I don't find FII as much of a departure from their discography as people make it out to be, but definitely a different balance. DT have always changed the balance of elements between albums and continued to adapt and evolve, which to me is keeping with a defining characteristic of the band. It's well known the album had more involvement from the label, and they focused their songwriting more on the restrained side, but that doesn't tarnish or invalidate the end result in any way.

Except for You Not Me. That was undeniable suckage before and after the label got to it.

MP's opinions are completely valid here considering the friction caused during the making of the album in question.

There is certainly a different balance of songs on FII, but again, there was obvious pressure from surrounding entities. Certain songs that made the album had different arrangements (TAMP, BMS) and help from outside writers (YNM). This isn't something the band had done before or has done since. If left to their own devices, we would have heard a different final product. Maybe one that aligns more with what the band has done before or since. It's sandwiched by two of their best releases, Awake and Metropolis 2, both being albums left with their indelible stamp. I can't look at FII the same way.

[BlobVanDam]

As long as the end result is great I don't really care if they had pressure from the label. And I think FII is a great record. And sometimes it's not that bad if a band has outside pressure/influence to stay focussed.

In a nutshell, that. All of the changes on the final album were for the better too, or made very little difference, except for YNM, which was never going to be anything more than a token filler song.

[Stadler]

I think MP's opinion is important; maybe not in terms of whether I like it or not (that's up to me) but isn't the artist's vision important? Isn't it important to know how close the final product came to what the artist had in his or her head?   

I don't know; maybe it's me, but to me the ONLY really valid criteria (absent something arbitrary like "most records sold") for whether an album is objectively "good" or "bad" is how close the final product came to what the artist's vision was. 

[Kwyjibo]

Most of the time I don't know the artist's vision and in the case of FII we know MP's vision, but what about the rest of the band?

And in some other thread someone said that Metallica's St. Anger is exactly what they aimed for. But it's still shit, subjectively and objectively  .

[Crow]

oh yeah ill second
Riverside: ADHD -> SONGS
one of my absolute favorite albums followed by a very average, meh album

[Kotowboy]

Falling Into Infinity is great.

Just because Portnoy doesn't like it - does not mean we must also hate it.

[Prog Snob]

As long as the end result is great I don't really care if they had pressure from the label. And I think FII is a great record. And sometimes it's not that bad if a band has outside pressure/influence to stay focussed.

In a nutshell, that. All of the changes on the final album were for the better too, or made very little difference, except for YNM, which was never going to be anything more than a token filler song.

We've disagreed on this before in the past, so no need to remind you why you're wrong.   

Falling Into Infinity is great.

Just because Portnoy doesn't like it - does not mean we must also hate it.

And that's not what I said. His opinion on the CD wasn't being used to show why we should hate it (because I don't), but the approach to making the CD and the difference from most of their other releases.

[BlobVanDam]

As long as the end result is great I don't really care if they had pressure from the label. And I think FII is a great record. And sometimes it's not that bad if a band has outside pressure/influence to stay focussed.

In a nutshell, that. All of the changes on the final album were for the better too, or made very little difference, except for YNM, which was never going to be anything more than a token filler song.

We've disagreed on this before in the past, so no need to remind you why you're wrong.   

Go ahead, and then I'll have to teach you what "opinion" means, and why I'm not wrong.

[Prog Snob]

As long as the end result is great I don't really care if they had pressure from the label. And I think FII is a great record. And sometimes it's not that bad if a band has outside pressure/influence to stay focussed.

In a nutshell, that. All of the changes on the final album were for the better too, or made very little difference, except for YNM, which was never going to be anything more than a token filler song.

We've disagreed on this before in the past, so no need to remind you why you're wrong.   

Go ahead, and then I'll have to teach you what "opinion" means, and why I'm not wrong.

   I know. I just have to bust your balls about being wrong your opinion.

[BlobVanDam]

In that case, STOP BUSTING MAH CHOPS!

[wolfking]

DT12 ----> The Astonishing

Wrong thread

No it isn't.

[Kotowboy]

I just thought of another one.

The Stone Roses. Great debut - - - The Second Coming. Terrible second album.

If they ever release a third album it will be shockingly terrible. Ian Brown CAN NOT SING.

[splent]

Romantic Warrior by Return to Forever... Followed by Musicmagic...

[LCArenas]

dredg: The Pariah, The Parrot, The Delusion -> Chuckles and Mr. Squeezy
All That Remains: For We Are Many -> A War You Cannot Win

While I wouldn't consider the second albums on the next list terrible, they did leave me a bit disappointed after the first ones:
A Dramatic Turn of Events -> DT12
Mutemath: Odd Soul -> Vitals
Opeth: Watershed -> Heritage
Pantera: The Great Southern Trendkill -> Reinventing the Steel
The Haunted: rEVOLVEr -> The Dead Eye
In Flames: A Sense of Purpose -> Sounds of a Playground Fading
Celtic Frost: Into the Pandemonium -> Cold Lake

[kaos2900]

Judas Priest- Pain Killer ----> Juggulator

[nicmos]

[gets flame suit on] Moving Pictures -> Signals

Digital Man and New World Man are easily two of the worst songs Rush has ever done.  Nostalgia props the rest of the album up, apart from Subdivisions, which is a classic.

Devin Townsend:
Synchestra -> Ziltoid
Epicloud -> Z2

Sara Bareilles: Kaliedescope Heart -> The Blessed Unrest

Stone Temple Pilots: Purple -> Tiny Music...

U2: Achtung  Baby -> Zooropa

[pogoowner]

U2: Achtung  Baby -> Zooropa

Oh, I didn't think of that one, but it's a perfect example.

[Outcrier]

The Stone Roses. Great debut - - - The Second Coming. Terrible second album.

If they ever release a third album it will be shockingly terrible. Ian Brown CAN NOT SING.

Lol, poor guy 

[JustJen]

Coming in at the end so maybe someone else already said this.. though probably not because Marillion fans are SO tight nit and hardcore faithful .. I get it, I used to be one of those... but following up Marbles with Something Else was the end of the road for me. Haven't bought a Marillion album or gone to a Marillion concert since.


edit - alright good I don't feel too bad then, I see a few others have also mentioned this.

[masterthes]

agreed, that was a horrible drop off in quality