Author Topic: The 8 member Supreme Court tally sheet  (Read 1789 times)

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Offline Adami

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Re: The 8 member Supreme Court tally sheet
« Reply #70 on: February 03, 2017, 10:26:03 AM »
So? Are you really trying to constructively debate with people on the extreme side of whatever?

I mean, I dunno, maybe you're a big fan of bashing your own head against a brick wall over and over, but it doesn't sound terribly fun to me.

I do, and here's why:  I don't at all expect anyone to change their views because of me (or anyone else).  I think that is futile, and even when effective, is a short term strategy (a bunch of people who all think the same thing don't bring any new ideas to the table, and are kind of like an example of "intellectual incest").    What I do strive for, though, is an accounting of all the facts on the table.   You are entitled to your own opinions, no matter how radical or extreme, but you don't get to pick and choose your facts, or make your own.  So some of this is to get people to account for things they either didn't know about, didn't care about, or purposefully tried to ignore because it didn't fit their personal world view.

Oh I get that, which is why I'm talking to a guy like you the way I am. I think, however, that some people just aren't ever going to get there. I live in LA and most of my friends literally cried when Bernie dropped out. Do you really think I'd have a snowball's chance of convincing them to being open minded about what Trump is doing? It's a nice idealistic thought, but it's futile. It's just not worth it. What happens is, you lose that middle ground. I mean, you personally have lost a lot of middle ground on here because you are arguing so hard against "TRUMP IS A NAZI AND WILL END THE UNIVERSE AS WE KNOW IT" and you've become focused on pointing out why almost anything Trump does is okay. Is almost anything Trump has done been okay? Hell no, but I think you're so used to engaging the extreme mindset that you're unwittingly adopting the opposite, though I know you won't see it that way. There are people on this board (some still here, some no longer allowed to post here) who had such stiff views regarding Trump, or Bernie, or Hillary or Frederick Douglas, that any attempt to bring them to the middle was seen as a challenge and just pushed them further to their fringe.

Like I said, it's a nice thought, but it's not going to happen. And even though you really do (despite reminding us often that you're not) come off as a strong Trump supporter who will try to brush away any negativity associated with just about anything he does (not everything, but a ton of it). I know you don't actually feel that way, and that you likely have gotten to this point unknowingly out of frustration with "TRUMP IS A NAZI AND EVERY WORD HE SAYS IS PART OF A MEANS TO SUMMON CTHULU" that you've accidentally gone to the other side. I'm trying to pull you back to the middle.

Join me in the middle. We have really good lemonade.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: The 8 member Supreme Court tally sheet
« Reply #71 on: February 03, 2017, 10:30:34 AM »
Can I join you too?  I like really good lemonade.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline chknptpie

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Re: The 8 member Supreme Court tally sheet
« Reply #72 on: February 03, 2017, 11:58:50 AM »
Is that Ice-T?
... Lemonade, read the sign!

Offline bosk1

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Re: The 8 member Supreme Court tally sheet
« Reply #73 on: February 03, 2017, 12:08:09 PM »
:lol
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The 8 member Supreme Court tally sheet
« Reply #74 on: February 03, 2017, 12:43:48 PM »
So? Are you really trying to constructively debate with people on the extreme side of whatever?

I mean, I dunno, maybe you're a big fan of bashing your own head against a brick wall over and over, but it doesn't sound terribly fun to me.

I do, and here's why:  I don't at all expect anyone to change their views because of me (or anyone else).  I think that is futile, and even when effective, is a short term strategy (a bunch of people who all think the same thing don't bring any new ideas to the table, and are kind of like an example of "intellectual incest").    What I do strive for, though, is an accounting of all the facts on the table.   You are entitled to your own opinions, no matter how radical or extreme, but you don't get to pick and choose your facts, or make your own.  So some of this is to get people to account for things they either didn't know about, didn't care about, or purposefully tried to ignore because it didn't fit their personal world view.
Uh, yeah, but this one is most likely no big deal.  Hence my smiley, which I wouldn't use for anything serious.  Unless I wanted to.

My (joking) point was that the Fascist selected a Fascist as judge har-de-har. 

Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline bosk1

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Re: The 8 member Supreme Court tally sheet
« Reply #75 on: February 03, 2017, 01:02:13 PM »
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The 8 member Supreme Court tally sheet
« Reply #76 on: February 03, 2017, 01:44:48 PM »
Nanu nanu

Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Stadler

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Re: The 8 member Supreme Court tally sheet
« Reply #77 on: February 03, 2017, 02:43:06 PM »
So? Are you really trying to constructively debate with people on the extreme side of whatever?

I mean, I dunno, maybe you're a big fan of bashing your own head against a brick wall over and over, but it doesn't sound terribly fun to me.

I do, and here's why:  I don't at all expect anyone to change their views because of me (or anyone else).  I think that is futile, and even when effective, is a short term strategy (a bunch of people who all think the same thing don't bring any new ideas to the table, and are kind of like an example of "intellectual incest").    What I do strive for, though, is an accounting of all the facts on the table.   You are entitled to your own opinions, no matter how radical or extreme, but you don't get to pick and choose your facts, or make your own.  So some of this is to get people to account for things they either didn't know about, didn't care about, or purposefully tried to ignore because it didn't fit their personal world view.

Oh I get that, which is why I'm talking to a guy like you the way I am. I think, however, that some people just aren't ever going to get there. I live in LA and most of my friends literally cried when Bernie dropped out. Do you really think I'd have a snowball's chance of convincing them to being open minded about what Trump is doing? It's a nice idealistic thought, but it's futile. It's just not worth it. What happens is, you lose that middle ground. I mean, you personally have lost a lot of middle ground on here because you are arguing so hard against "TRUMP IS A NAZI AND WILL END THE UNIVERSE AS WE KNOW IT" and you've become focused on pointing out why almost anything Trump does is okay. Is almost anything Trump has done been okay? Hell no, but I think you're so used to engaging the extreme mindset that you're unwittingly adopting the opposite, though I know you won't see it that way. There are people on this board (some still here, some no longer allowed to post here) who had such stiff views regarding Trump, or Bernie, or Hillary or Frederick Douglas, that any attempt to bring them to the middle was seen as a challenge and just pushed them further to their fringe.

Like I said, it's a nice thought, but it's not going to happen. And even though you really do (despite reminding us often that you're not) come off as a strong Trump supporter who will try to brush away any negativity associated with just about anything he does (not everything, but a ton of it). I know you don't actually feel that way, and that you likely have gotten to this point unknowingly out of frustration with "TRUMP IS A NAZI AND EVERY WORD HE SAYS IS PART OF A MEANS TO SUMMON CTHULU" that you've accidentally gone to the other side. I'm trying to pull you back to the middle.

Join me in the middle. We have really good lemonade.

Then I've failed in my objective, because I'm not at all trying to say what he's doing is "okay".  I think I've been pretty clear in my dissent with Trump, without resorting to the sort of extreme that seems to be de rigueur today.   I think "not nearly as bad as Chicken Little says" doesn't equate with "ok".   Tariffs do not work.  I think Betty DeVos should be sent packing.  But I don't think it's a futile effort to demand that there be SOME logic and reason to the arguments. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: The 8 member Supreme Court tally sheet
« Reply #78 on: February 03, 2017, 02:43:27 PM »
Is that Ice-T?
... Lemonade, read the sign!

One of my favorite commercials ever.

Offline pogoowner

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Re: The 8 member Supreme Court tally sheet
« Reply #79 on: February 03, 2017, 03:34:07 PM »
So, apparently, when Gorsuch was in school, he was president of a club called Fascism Forever.

:justjen:
Saw that last night. You couldn't write this stuff. :lol

- He was 14.
- It was a sarcastic (note the maturity of your average 14 year old) response to several onerous policies of the school administration, and likely referred more to the SCHOOL as to his political beliefs.
- There have been no other reference to fascism, or fascist policies, in any of his writings.

I'm just throwing it out there, but if one has no problem with either Hillary or Bernie's dalliances in communism in college, if one thinks that Bill's "not inhaling" is past history, and if one has no problem with Barack's marijuana use, cocaine use, and politics when HE was in college, then there's nothing to see here. 
Yeah, I don't care about any of those things, including Gorsuch's fascism club. You just could not come up with something more fitting for this exact political climate than that. It's highly amusing.

Online El Barto

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Re: The 8 member Supreme Court tally sheet
« Reply #80 on: March 21, 2017, 12:22:43 PM »
At this point I honestly have no idea WTF these confirmation hearings are supposed to accomplish. He's not going to tell you anything useful. Quit jerking off already.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline chknptpie

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Re: The 8 member Supreme Court tally sheet
« Reply #81 on: March 21, 2017, 01:04:10 PM »
They need to at least pretend they are doing something, right?

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: The 8 member Supreme Court tally sheet
« Reply #82 on: March 21, 2017, 02:29:12 PM »
Thoughts on this ruling?

http://www.npr.org/2017/03/06/518877248/supreme-court-allows-prying-into-jury-deliberations-if-racism-is-perceived

Quote
The Supreme Court ruled on Tuesday that when there is clear evidence of racial bias during jury deliberations, they can be unsealed by a court to investigate whether the defendant's rights were violated.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Online El Barto

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Re: The 8 member Supreme Court tally sheet
« Reply #83 on: March 21, 2017, 03:07:42 PM »
Quote
Writing for the three, Alito said that, despite the "admirable intention of the majority," its decision "is a startling development" that pries open the door of the jury room for the first time in centuries. The ruling, he predicted, will "prompt losing parties and their friends, supporters, and attorneys to contact and seek to question jurors, and this pestering may erode citizens' willingness to serve on juries."
I'm not sure I like (or agree) with the decision, but this is wrong. The nature of the polling and any remedy that's required to keep the jurors from being harassed is a legislative matter. It's not the court's place to protect jurors from what might happen.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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