Author Topic: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge  (Read 18883 times)

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Offline Stadler

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2016, 07:39:21 AM »
Should be interesting to see a) how good Anderson's voice still sounds, and b) how much lead singing Stolt does at all. 

Anderson's voice was never good, and Stolt's voice is annoying. 

Who's with me?

I LOVE Anderson's voice; the problem for me is that you have about a 50-50 shot of hearing him singing something epic and grand, like "dream on, on to the heart of the sunrise!" or something inane and banal about "Shirley" being "strung out on crack time" or almost anything on "Open Your Eyes".   And the REAL problem for me is that it seems like in the last ten years or so, the ration of "crack time" to "sunrise" is more like 70-30. 

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2016, 08:19:50 AM »
Perhaps, but who was writing the music on those songs in the last 10 years?  With Roine Stolt likely doing the majority of the writing on this record, I am guessing the melodies will be closer to sunrise than crack time. ;) 

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2016, 08:37:52 AM »
CRACK TIME
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2016, 02:29:26 PM »
Perhaps, but who was writing the music on those songs in the last 10 years?  With Roine Stolt likely doing the majority of the writing on this record, I am guessing the melodies will be closer to sunrise than crack time. ;)

This is a good point.

Offline The Letter M

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2016, 02:43:06 PM »
Perhaps, but who was writing the music on those songs in the last 10 years?  With Roine Stolt likely doing the majority of the writing on this record, I am guessing the melodies will be closer to sunrise than crack time. ;)

In the video Jon released on FB the day before the official news of this album dropped, Jon mentioned the music was stuff he was writing with friends from all over the place over some time, so I'd say the majority of the BASIC writing was Jon's, but I'm sure Roine (and band) probably embellished a lot, or added their own flowery flair to things, but I doubt Roine would've changed TOO much of the album's original writing, so we'll see.

It's nice to have Tom Brislin on board, though, so I'm looking forward to hearing him on this!

-Marc.
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Offline Hanz Gruber

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2016, 11:50:35 AM »
Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt team up for ‘The Invention Of Knowledge’
Anderson / Stolt, the brand new duo of legendary Yes vocalist & singer/songwriter Jon Anderson and progressive rock veteran Roine Stolt (The Flower Kings, Transatlantic), have announced the release of their collaborative album ‘The Invention Of Knowledge’ for 24th June 2016 via InsideOut Music.
Jon Anderson had this to say: “.....Music is always the driving force in my life...working with such a wonderful musician as Roine Stolt made the creation of this album very unique,we are very excited with the release of 'Invention of Knowledge'.“
Roine Stolt adds: “It is not aiming at being new Yes music; just new music, modern and classical, rock and ethno, tribal and orchestrated, grooving and floating. Hopefully in the true spirit of “progressive” - leaning forward, surprising and also comforting with familiar run-arounds.
We’ve been “inventing” as we go along - Jon is an endless source of new ideas. We’ve been bouncing ideas back and forth for months and as a result there are probably dozens of versions of these songs. It’s been a very interesting and rewarding time and the result is just insanely detailed.”
InsideOut label-head Thomas Waber comments: “I have been talking to Jon for ages about making an album of ‘Yes music’ – as Jon calls it - and Roine seemed like the perfect guy for him to work with. I am really happy that it has finally happened and I am also thrilled with the material they have come up with. I think it will please a lot of fans!”
The idea came to life swiftly off the back of a performance from Roine’s band Transatlantic, and Jon Anderson on the Progressive Nation At Sea Cruise in 2014, and was initially instigated by InsideOut Music label boss Thomas Waber. The duo set about crafting new music in the spirit of early epic works such as ‘Tales From Topographic Oceans’, ‘Awaken’ & ‘Olias Of Sunhillow’, but giving it a modern twist.
Written & recorded over the course of 1 and a half years, the tracks have been in a state of constant change as Roine and Jon swapped & refined ideas by sending tracks to each other via the internet. In March 2015, an ensemble was put together by Roine to realise the music live in the studio. Joining him there was Tom Brislin (who played on the Yes Symphonic tour) & Lalle Larsson on keys, Jonas Reingold & Michael Stolt on bass and Felix Lehrmann on drums. The sessions were also bolstered by appearances from Daniel Gildenlöw, Nad Sylvan, Anja Obermayer, Maria Rerych and Kristina Westas who all provided backing vocals.
The full track-listing for the album is as follows:
• Knowing 17:45
• Everybody Heals 13:20
• Invention Of Knowledge 23:10
• Know 11.20
Keep an eye out for more news in the coming weeks!

-----

Woah.

Cool.  My dad is a huge Yes/Jon Anderson fan.  His birthday is June 3rd so I will have to give him a notice that this will be his present when it is released later that month.

He is usually behind on new album news because he doesn't use the internet.  Will be a nice surprise.

Offline Enigmachine

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2016, 04:16:30 PM »
Artwork bugs me. The head isn't exactly in the middle.  :mehlin

It's interesting to see two musicians from different generations collaborate, though I'm not that familiar with Roine Stolt's work or any Yes material with Jon outside of the 60s / 70s stuff.

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2016, 06:34:35 PM »
Artwork bugs me. The head isn't exactly in the middle.  :mehlin

It's interesting to see two musicians from different generations collaborate, though I'm not that familiar with Roine Stolt's work or any Yes material with Jon outside of the 60s / 70s stuff.
In my opinion, there is some great Yes work from the '80s/'90s, plus some nice songs with Vangelis as well. If you are interested, I'd recommend:

With Yes:
-"Hearts" (1983)
-"Almost Like Love" (1987)
-"Where Will You Be" (1994)
-"That, That Is" (1996)
-"Love Shine" (1997)
-"Homeworld" (1999)

With Vangelis:
-"I'll Find My Way Home" (1981)
-"He Is Sailing" and "Horizon" (1983)

Offline The Letter M

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2016, 09:11:32 PM »
Artwork bugs me. The head isn't exactly in the middle.  :mehlin

It's interesting to see two musicians from different generations collaborate, though I'm not that familiar with Roine Stolt's work or any Yes material with Jon outside of the 60s / 70s stuff.

Oddly enough, Roine is only 12 years younger than Jon, with the former turning 60 this September and Jon turning 72 in October. Roine actually had a major prog band in the 70's with Kaipa, though they weren't really well-known outside of Europe, or even Sweden, but I wouldn't know as I wasn't alive back then! :lol

However, the Wiki for Roine states:
"In 1974 he became the guitarist in Kaipa, a professional progressive rock band, he was 17 years old at that time, the group made three successful albums and toured more than 100 gigs a year, including national TV and radio performances in Scandinavia. These Kaipa albums are now reissued worldwide and are often regarded as the premier Scandinavian symphonic rock albums of the seventies."

So he did have some fame back in the 70's, though I'm sure the influences from British Prog were apparent in the rest of Europe.

I always think it's funny that while many fans associate Roine's first foray into prog with The Flower Kings or even Transatlantic, both "newer" bands from the 90's, they often forget how much longer he's been in the music game, though many fans don't seek out Swedish-language prog from the 70's very often, and his 80's solo albums aren't quite prog at all.

This is my most anticipated new-group release of the year, which is going to be tough considering how many albums are coming out from bands I already love (Tiles, Haken, Big Big Train, and Frost*, all with long-awaited and highly-anticipated releases).

-Marc.
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Offline Enigmachine

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2016, 04:44:36 AM »
This is my most anticipated new-group release of the year, which is going to be tough considering how many albums are coming out from bands I already love (Tiles, Haken, Big Big Train, and Frost*, all with long-awaited and highly-anticipated releases).

-Marc.

I know just Haken out of them. I still have a lot to learn.  :lol

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #45 on: April 05, 2016, 06:44:10 PM »
Artwork bugs me. The head isn't exactly in the middle.  :mehlin

It's interesting to see two musicians from different generations collaborate, though I'm not that familiar with Roine Stolt's work or any Yes material with Jon outside of the 60s / 70s stuff.
In my opinion, there is some great Yes work from the '80s/'90s, plus some nice songs with Vangelis as well. If you are interested, I'd recommend:

With Yes:
-"Hearts" (1983)
-"Almost Like Love" (1987)
-"Where Will You Be" (1994)
-"That, That Is" (1996)
-"Love Shine" (1997)
-"Homeworld" (1999)

With Vangelis:
-"I'll Find My Way Home" (1981)
-"He Is Sailing" and "Horizon" (1983)

OMG, nothing like recommending songs by Yes that most would agree are far down on the list of good Yes songs, even by post-1970s standards. :P :lol

Enigmachine, whatever you do, do NOT listen to Love Shine or Almost Like Love early on.  Yes has tons of songs from 1980 onward far better than both.

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #46 on: April 06, 2016, 03:49:23 AM »
Agreed.. Endless Dream, Shoot High Aim Low, Lift Me Up, are much better YES songs. However, SebastionPratesi's list is still pretty darn good!
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 03:54:43 AM by Architeuthis »
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Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #47 on: April 06, 2016, 03:56:57 AM »
I would never recommend someone to listen to Lift Me Up, such an uninspired bubble gum pop number. Whereas Almost Like Love is worth listening too, but that tastes  ;D
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline Enigmachine

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #48 on: April 06, 2016, 04:04:23 AM »
Enigmachine, whatever you do, do NOT listen to Love Shine or Almost Like Love early on.  Yes has tons of songs from 1980 onward far better than both.

No need for the warning, because that's not how I listen to music. In time, I will check out the later Yes stuff album-by-album in chronological order.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #49 on: April 06, 2016, 07:54:18 AM »
With 80's and 90's Yes you almost have to go in chronological order; otherwise it's a little too schizophrenic.

I know for me, in the context of the rest of the album "Lift Me Up" IS relatively "bubble gum pop" (though let's be fair: there is NO pure "bubble gum pop" in the Yes catalogue).  But I made a compilation of "YesWest" and pulled the Rabin songs from Onion and in the context of the rest of the YesWest stuff, it fits in really nicely, and isn't nearly as sterile.  It's the drums; you put White's bombast next to Bruford's subtlety, and of COURSE it sounds like "POP". 

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #50 on: April 06, 2016, 11:32:21 AM »
I would never recommend someone to listen to Lift Me Up, such an uninspired bubble gum pop number. Whereas Almost Like Love is worth listening too, but that tastes  ;D
Lift Me Up is a great song,  don't listen to the prog snobs.  I enjoy Yes West (Rabin Era) material more than classic Yes,  and I love classic Yes. Rabin added a higher energy to the band and complemented Jon's vocals and Chris's harmonies. Btw, I'm kind of a prog snob, but not always.
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Offline Enigmachine

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #51 on: April 06, 2016, 11:35:14 AM »
Can people give me their opinion on all Yes eras? I want to know what the general consensus is here.

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #52 on: April 06, 2016, 11:41:51 AM »
All Yes is worthwile! Their least accessible albums are Tormato and Open Your Eyes,  IMHO. Their newest albums without Jon Anderson are not the same either.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #53 on: April 06, 2016, 12:04:12 PM »
Can people give me their opinion on all Yes eras? I want to know what the general consensus is here.

Banks Era ( - 1970): so-so British rock; some good moments (Sweet Dreams, The Prophet) but more bluesy than "prog"

First Prog Era (1971-1974): Some will argue this, because The Yes Album is very different than, say, Relayer, but this is the classic era of a classic Prog Rock band.   Most of these songs are the basis for setlists to this very day, and it is not a coincidence that both the "Full Album Showcases" and the Steven Wilson remasters/remixes come from this era.

First Schizophrenic Era (1977-1981):   Wakeman returns, and they release my favorite album of all time by any band, Going For The One.   Unfortunately, it was only one, because the followup, Tormato, was patchy and ultimately led to Anderson and Wakeman leaving.   Howe-Squire-White continued with Drama (a FINE album) but it was clearly time for transformational change.

Rabin Era (1982-1994):   It's really two eras, because the much-maligned "ABWH" and "Onion" came out about three quarters of the way through, but since Rabin and Squire (Squire is my definition of "Yes") didn't really part I'm keeping it together.  Perhaps not the actual high point, but certainly by far the most consistent era of the band.   You will find just as many that say "90210 is the best album here!" as you will "Talk is the best album here!".   Talk is very underrated, and is a watershed album for both the band and generally, as it is one of the first albums to use computers as a recording device.   Apparently Rabin was actually in touch with APple engineers writing code in real time to get the album produced. 

Second Prog Era: (1994 - 1997): the "reunion" of the "Going For The One" band, yielded the excellent "Keys to Acsension" and it's sequel.   Must listening.

Second Schizophrenic Era:  (1997-2001):  I say 2001, but it went much longer, until Anderson left in 04-05 timeframe (one of the beefs was the lack of studio output).  Some will disagree, but with a different (or no) keyboard player each album this era is really a subjective one.  For me, other than Magnification (and even then, only really the title track) this era is dreck.

Post-Anderson Era: (2011-Present): I say 2011, but it's earlier, since Anderson left/was fired around '04-'05.  I personally like Fly From Here (I view it as a sequel to Drama, which is a good thing) but not convinced about Heaven and Earth.   The band is a shell of their former selves, with most songs at a much slower tempo, and much sparser in instrumentation.   Except for the phenomenal (and I mean, PHENOMENAL) "Into The Storm" - written with Rick Wakeman's son, Oliver - very little approaches the full rock muscle and power of their mid-70's heyday. 


I like something from all of it except the Second Schizophrenic Era, but my favorites are the First Prog Era, the First Schizophrenic Era (I like Tormato, though I recognize it's flaws - Circus of Heaven and Arriving UFO - objectively), and the Rabin Era. 

Offline Orbert

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #54 on: April 06, 2016, 12:10:56 PM »
Not bad, Stadler.  Here's my take, obviously written at the same time as yours:

Early Years

1969 Yes
1970 Time and a Word

Better than average late-60's stuff.  More than pop, less than prog.  Many hints of the greatness to come.  Probably more for completists and/or folks who get into 70's Yes and want to know how it all started.

The Main Sequence

1971 The Yes Album
1972 Fragile
1972 Close to the Edge
1974 Tales from Topographic Oceans
1974 Relayer
1977 Going for the One

With the addition of Steve Howe on the third album and Rick Wakeman on the fourth, Yes was launched into the stratosphere.  They didn't invent the side-long epic, but they took it to the next level with four on one album and six total across three consecutive albums.  This is generally considered the prime of the band, and the prime of progressive rock in general by many.

Transition

1978 Tormato
1980 Drama

Tormato had the same lineup as most albums from the main sequence, but the band was running out of steam, the 70's and 70's prog were nearing the end of their heyday, and Yes was being pulled in different directions.  It was an unfocused album of mostly shorter songs, and while it has its supporters, it is generally regarded as one of Yes' lesser works.  Jon Anderson and Rick Wakeman both left after Tormato, opening the door for The Buggles to join for Drama, considered a step up by most Yesfans, but people hung up on Jon Anderson don't seem to like it.

The Rabin Era

1983 90125
1987 Big Generator
1994 Talk

A very different band, originally Cinema and started by Trevor Rabin, but became Yes under studio pressure to capitalize on the name.  Much better than average pop, and still hints of prog, this is the most commerically successful lineup, but generally considered inferior artistically to the 70's works.

Sidesteps

1989 Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe
1991 Union

Jon Anderson formed Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman & Howe because he wasn't really getting off on RabinYes.  ABWH is a return to (Yes) form, and Yesfans argue endlessly about whether or not it's a Yes album.  When ABWH went to make their second album, the group was already splintering and they had trouble coming up with enough material, so some suit came up with the idea to add some leftover RabinYes tunes and promote it as the Union of the two Yesfactions.  They fooled almost no one, but the album isn't bad.  On the downside, both Yes and ABWH finished self-destructing before it was done, leaving Jon Anderson and producer Jonathan Elias to try to finish the album.  With no one available for overdubs, half the studio musicians in California have "additional musician" credits on this album.  It still isn't bad; you just never know who you're listening to.

Return of the Classic Lineup

1996 Keys to Ascension
1997 Keys to Ascension 2

Two double CDs, each with both studio and live material.  There's actually only a single CD worth of studio material total, but it's pretty good and there are two new epics.  The studio tracks are also repackaged as Keysstudio, a weird name that makes no sense if you don't know the history, but most of Yes doesn't make sense anyway.  The live tracks came from a three-night reunion show, but are heavily overdubbed.

Everything Since

1997 Open Your Eyes
1999 The Ladder
2001 Magnification
2011 Fly From Here
2014 Heaven & Earth

Yes changed members so much that there are rarely two albums in a row with the same lineup, and never more than two.  In 1997, the "classic" lineup had already broken up again before Keys to Ascension 2 came out, and Open Your Eyes, the new album from the next lineup, came out only weeks later.  Since then, the lineup has continued to fluctuate, with founding member and primary lead vocalist Jon Anderson leaving after 2001's Magnification.  This isn't really an "era" as such, and the quality varies wildly from album to album, and even from song to song.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #55 on: April 06, 2016, 12:19:30 PM »
WOW.  I'm surprised (and a little proud, because you clearly know your Yes) that they are so close.   Nice!!!!

Offline Orbert

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #56 on: April 06, 2016, 12:58:24 PM »
Our styles are very different, Stadler, but I find that I agree with you more often than not, including most things having to do with music.  I too am impressed at how close our lists came out, even though they have different standards and approaches.

Offline Enigmachine

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #57 on: April 06, 2016, 01:18:07 PM »
Should I listen to Keystudio instead of the Keys to Ascention duo if I don't care about the live stuff? btw I already know about and have listened to the band from the debut to Drama. How would you guys rank everything from 90125 onwards?

Offline Stadler

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #58 on: April 06, 2016, 01:29:37 PM »
Should I listen to Keystudio instead of the Keys to Ascention duo if I don't care about the live stuff? btw I already know about and have listened to the band from the debut to Drama. How would you guys rank everything from 90125 onwards?

I think there are slight differences between the songs on the two Keys' albums and the studio compilation.  There's an extended intro to Children of the Light I think. 

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #59 on: April 06, 2016, 01:40:37 PM »
Orbert, great post! However, you left out the "Talk" album. It was a strong return to Yes West form with Rabin and Anderson back in the line-up. Talk is maybe my favorite Yes album of all time. :coolio
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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #60 on: April 06, 2016, 03:26:09 PM »
Talk was included with The Rabin Era.  The problem is that at the time, there were two bands out there -- one actually called Yes but in many people's minds not the "real" Yes, and ABWH which was probably closer to "real" Yes (that is, 70's-style Yes) -- so I created the Sidesteps category.  But those "eras" overlap.

I considered including a bit more history, about how after Union there was going to be an actual album with all eight members participating, but Bruford wanting nothing to do with it, Howe stuck around a bit longer but lost interest after the suits spent over two years and not reaching a deal, and Wakeman was still keen to be in it (having wanted to work with Rabin for a long time) but Phil Carson from Victory Records only wanted "the 90125 lineup".  There are rare promotional materials with the six-member lineup named, but when Talk came out, Wakeman wasn't on it.  Victory Records went belly-up shortly after, so Talk didn't get much promotion.  That's why most agree that it's probably the best of the three RabinYes albums, but sold the fewest units.  But the post was getting pretty ridiculous as it was, so I cut it all out.

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #61 on: April 06, 2016, 03:41:55 PM »
Should I listen to Keystudio instead of the Keys to Ascention duo if I don't care about the live stuff? btw I already know about and have listened to the band from the debut to Drama. How would you guys rank everything from 90125 onwards?

I think there are slight differences between the songs on the two Keys' albums and the studio compilation.  There's an extended intro to Children of the Light I think. 

Correct.  "Children of the Light" originally had three parts, but the first section, a Wakeman solo, was cut when Wakeman left the band prior to the album's release.  They insist that it was not out of spite, but the suite is oddly unbalanced without it.  The instrumental intro ("Lightning") balanced the instrumental outro ("Lifeline") nicely, with both framing the song "Children of Light".

Keystudio presents the track in its original form, with all three parts.  Other than that, it's the seven studio tracks from the two albums.  And yes, I recommend it over getting both Keys to Ascension releases.

Actually, it may have been a timing consideration.  Remember that originally, CDs only held 74 minutes of music, and if there was a plan at some point to release the studio material as a single disc, it would have been just a bit too long.  By the time Keystudio came out, the maximum length of a CD had been increased to 80 minutes.  Keystudio is 74:21 altogether.

Offline The Letter M

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #62 on: April 06, 2016, 06:30:10 PM »
Should I listen to Keystudio instead of the Keys to Ascention duo if I don't care about the live stuff? btw I already know about and have listened to the band from the debut to Drama. How would you guys rank everything from 90125 onwards?

I think there are slight differences between the songs on the two Keys' albums and the studio compilation.  There's an extended intro to Children of the Light I think. 

Correct.  "Children of the Light" originally had three parts, but the first section, a Wakeman solo, was cut when Wakeman left the band prior to the album's release.  They insist that it was not out of spite, but the suite is oddly unbalanced without it.  The instrumental intro ("Lightning") balanced the instrumental outro ("Lifeline") nicely, with both framing the song "Children of Light".

Keystudio presents the track in its original form, with all three parts.  Other than that, it's the seven studio tracks from the two albums.  And yes, I recommend it over getting both Keys to Ascension releases.

Actually, it may have been a timing consideration.  Remember that originally, CDs only held 74 minutes of music, and if there was a plan at some point to release the studio material as a single disc, it would have been just a bit too long.  By the time Keystudio came out, the maximum length of a CD had been increased to 80 minutes.  Keystudio is 74:21 altogether.

To expand further, the original Keys To Ascension 2 version of "Children Of Light" had a first verse that is cut from the Keystudio version, replaced with Wakeman's "Lightning" intro. The lyrics for that cut verse are pretty much repeated later in the song, but if you're a completionist like me, you slash up the two versions of the song to open with "Lightning" and end it with the opening of the original version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoVFli8z1K0
This is the original Keys 2 version, and at 35 seconds in is where the Keystudio version's lyrics come in, missing the first verse completely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7QpqVDlhcQ
This is the Keystudio version with Wakeman's "Lightning" as the intro. It lasts for about 56 seconds before going into the pre-verse part of the 2nd verse.

My personal cut that makes the most of both versions runs a total of 7:01, longer than either version of the song that was officially released.

In addition to all of that, the material for the Keys sessions was originally going to be called "Know", which is homophonic pun on the band's name - "Yes" releases "Know" ("No") - but the idea was eventually given up. When news of Invention Of Knowledge came out, seeing the track list made me think of this immediately, wondering if Jon was happy to finally use "Know" somewhere, even if it wasn't for a Yes album.

-Marc.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #63 on: April 06, 2016, 07:35:23 PM »
Should I listen to Keystudio instead of the Keys to Ascention duo if I don't care about the live stuff? btw I already know about and have listened to the band from the debut to Drama. How would you guys rank everything from 90125 onwards?

I think there are slight differences between the songs on the two Keys' albums and the studio compilation.  There's an extended intro to Children of the Light I think. 

Correct.  "Children of the Light" originally had three parts, but the first section, a Wakeman solo, was cut when Wakeman left the band prior to the album's release.  They insist that it was not out of spite, but the suite is oddly unbalanced without it.  The instrumental intro ("Lightning") balanced the instrumental outro ("Lifeline") nicely, with both framing the song "Children of Light".

Keystudio presents the track in its original form, with all three parts.  Other than that, it's the seven studio tracks from the two albums.  And yes, I recommend it over getting both Keys to Ascension releases.

Actually, it may have been a timing consideration.  Remember that originally, CDs only held 74 minutes of music, and if there was a plan at some point to release the studio material as a single disc, it would have been just a bit too long.  By the time Keystudio came out, the maximum length of a CD had been increased to 80 minutes.  Keystudio is 74:21 altogether.

To expand further, the original Keys To Ascension 2 version of "Children Of Light" had a first verse that is cut from the Keystudio version, replaced with Wakeman's "Lightning" intro.

I didn't realize that!  I've listened to the Keystudio version a few times, but once the vocals start, I assumed it was the same from that point forward.

Offline The Letter M

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #64 on: April 06, 2016, 07:54:57 PM »
Should I listen to Keystudio instead of the Keys to Ascention duo if I don't care about the live stuff? btw I already know about and have listened to the band from the debut to Drama. How would you guys rank everything from 90125 onwards?

I think there are slight differences between the songs on the two Keys' albums and the studio compilation.  There's an extended intro to Children of the Light I think. 

Correct.  "Children of the Light" originally had three parts, but the first section, a Wakeman solo, was cut when Wakeman left the band prior to the album's release.  They insist that it was not out of spite, but the suite is oddly unbalanced without it.  The instrumental intro ("Lightning") balanced the instrumental outro ("Lifeline") nicely, with both framing the song "Children of Light".

Keystudio presents the track in its original form, with all three parts.  Other than that, it's the seven studio tracks from the two albums.  And yes, I recommend it over getting both Keys to Ascension releases.

Actually, it may have been a timing consideration.  Remember that originally, CDs only held 74 minutes of music, and if there was a plan at some point to release the studio material as a single disc, it would have been just a bit too long.  By the time Keystudio came out, the maximum length of a CD had been increased to 80 minutes.  Keystudio is 74:21 altogether.

To expand further, the original Keys To Ascension 2 version of "Children Of Light" had a first verse that is cut from the Keystudio version, replaced with Wakeman's "Lightning" intro.

I didn't realize that!  I've listened to the Keystudio version a few times, but once the vocals start, I assumed it was the same from that point forward.

I hadn't realized it until a few years ago when I noticed the first words of both versions were not the same, let alone the first verses! It took a bit of A/B'ing for me to realize that the first verse of the Keys 2 version was missing, so I took it upon myself to make a "complete" version with all its parts. I like the slightly-longer version, and it makes one of my favorite albums a bit longer, which isn't a bad thing!

-Marc.
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SebastianPratesi

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #65 on: April 06, 2016, 08:29:30 PM »
Can people give me their opinion on all Yes eras? I want to know what the general consensus is here.
How would you guys rank everything from 90125 onwards?
I rank '90s Yes very highly. In fact, that's how I discovered the band - 10 years ago through the Talk album, which is great to me. The Ladder too - much beautiful music there, and it was a sort of soundtrack during a difficult time in my life. To answer your 2nd question - these are my 5 favourite post-90125 albums:

1. Talk
2. The Ladder
3. Keys To Ascension
4. Open Your Eyes
5. Heaven & Earth

As for the other eras, I like some songs/albums from the '70s as well - "Time And A Word", "The Revealing Science Of God" and "Turn Of The Century" in particular - but that's about it. I'm not too crazy about '70s Yes - in fact, I've never listened to Fragile or Drama in full. I do like the sound/mix of their '70s output, though.

Now that I think about it, I find it curious that there's no founding member in the band at the moment.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #66 on: April 06, 2016, 08:34:00 PM »
Can people give me their opinion on all Yes eras? I want to know what the general consensus is here.

1969-1970: good stuff early on, but not really essential unless you become a diehard.
1971-1975: their creative peak, on all levels.
1977-1980: the uneven "we're not sure what is really going on" era. Produced both some great and crappy stuff.
1983-1994: the pop rock era: mostly really good to great.
1996-2001: the return to prog era; some good stuff, some meh stuff, some really good stuff.
2011-present: the clinging to life era. Nothing here notable at all.

Offline The Letter M

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #67 on: April 06, 2016, 08:45:16 PM »
Can people give me their opinion on all Yes eras? I want to know what the general consensus is here.

1969-1970: good stuff early on, but not really essential unless you become a diehard.
1971-1975: their creative peak, on all levels.
1977-1980: the uneven "we're not sure what is really going on" era. Produced both some great and crappy stuff.
1983-1994: the pop rock era: mostly really good to great.
1996-2001: the return to prog era; some good stuff, some meh stuff, some really good stuff.
2011-present: the clinging to life era. Nothing here notable at all.

You forgot one-

2001-2011: The "Let's do a lot of tours and release a lot of live albums and DVDs to fans who will buy anything" Era

-Marc.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #68 on: April 06, 2016, 09:25:38 PM »
I find it curious that there's no founding member in the band at the moment.

For any other band, that would indeed be a curiosity.  For Yes, maybe not.  Chris Squire was the only person to play in every version of Yes and on every album, so with his passing, there are no original members left.  But we're talking about a band that's been around nearly 50 years.  Peter Banks has also passed and Bill Bruford is retired, so the only possibilities are Jon Anderson and Tony Kaye.  Anderson has said that he'd love to rejoin Yes, but his actions speak otherwise.  They waited for him for most of the 00's, first because he wanted some time off, then he got sick, then he wanted some more time off, then the next time they asked him what was up, he couldn't do it because he was going on a solo tour.  That was the last straw as far as Howe and Squire were concerned.  Tony Kaye will likely never return.  He's busy with Circa, something of a Yes offshoot and in some ways a better band than Yes currently.

But the "no founding members" thing may be overrated anyway.  Yes members have constantly come and gone over the years.  Kaye left, came back, and left again.  Wakeman has been in and out at least three times, Howe at least twice.  Alan White has been with them over 40 years though, and Steve Howe joined the first time nearly 45 years ago.  They may not be original members, but they've been in Yes more years than most bands even exist.  This is Geoff Downes' second stint with Yes, and if Billy Sherwood succeeds Chris Squire as many presume, it will be his second time as well.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt - Invention of Knowledge
« Reply #69 on: April 06, 2016, 09:55:02 PM »
Excellent points.  Granted, I think Yes is on fumes creatively at this point, and it kind of sucks to see them limping to the finish line like this, but Howe and White are about as big a core (alive) members as you can get (Anderson being the other), and they are both still in the band, so, yeah.