Like/Dislike for the past 3 albums

[The Curious Orange]

I LIKE The Astonishing. But I LOVE every other DT album - even the red-haired step-child that is FII.

[cfmoran13]

I've been a fan since 1992.  I very much like ADToE and DT12.  I don't think I like TA at all.  I say "I don't think I like" because I simply don't have the time to invest in this album.  Every time I hear that line "People just don't have the time for music anymore", I get extremely agitated.  Personally, I agree with the statement.  However, the fact that they would turn around and make such a dense double album as this infuriates me.  IMO, Very few of the songs can stand on their own or will last much after this tour.  Very little of this album is memorable to me.  Good on James for being able to tackle such a project.  I simply find this album to be way too self-indulgent for my tastes. 

My days of sitting down with the lyrics to listen to a full album for multiple listens are long gone.  I just don't have the time.  During the week, I have just about 2 hours a night to do whatever I want before heading to bed.  I don't want to take the entire 2 hours to listen to an album.  Especially this one.  I'll just have to wait another 3-4 years for the next album and hope it's more straight-forward.

And, enough with the ragtime piano breaks!  They serve absolutely no purpose.

[Prog Snob]

I know what you're talking about. Sometimes when life is always busy you have to put aside some of the things you enjoy. I went through a phase like that and forgot some of the things that make me who I am, so I made changes. It's still not always easy to make time for everything but I just have to prioritize  things differently.

[red barchetta]

I've been a fan since 1992.  I very much like ADToE and DT12.  I don't think I like TA at all.  I say "I don't think I like" because I simply don't have the time to invest in this album.  Every time I hear that line "People just don't have the time for music anymore", I get extremely agitated.  Personally, I agree with the statement.  However, the fact that they would turn around and make such a dense double album as this infuriates me.  IMO, Very few of the songs can stand on their own or will last much after this tour.  Very little of this album is memorable to me.  Good on James for being able to tackle such a project.  I simply find this album to be way too self-indulgent for my tastes. 

My days of sitting down with the lyrics to listen to a full album for multiple listens are long gone.  I just don't have the time.  During the week, I have just about 2 hours a night to do whatever I want before heading to bed.  I don't want to take the entire 2 hours to listen to an album.  Especially this one.  I'll just have to wait another 3-4 years for the next album and hope it's more straight-forward.Ll

And, enough with the ragtime piano breaks!  They serve absolutely no purpose.


Very well said. It's a special project that not all DT fans are happy about or like it.

[red barchetta]

I know what you're talking about. Sometimes when life is always busy you have to put aside some of the things you enjoy. I went through a phase like that and forgot some of the things that make me who I am, so I made changes. It's still not always easy to make time for everything but I just have to prioritize  things differently.

It means that if you don't like it, it's only your fault. Dedicate more time and you will love it. You have got no choice lol.

[KevShmev]

I've been a fan since 1992.  I very much like ADToE and DT12.  I don't think I like TA at all.  I say "I don't think I like" because I simply don't have the time to invest in this album.  Every time I hear that line "People just don't have the time for music anymore", I get extremely agitated.  Personally, I agree with the statement.  However, the fact that they would turn around and make such a dense double album as this infuriates me.  IMO, Very few of the songs can stand on their own or will last much after this tour.  Very little of this album is memorable to me.  Good on James for being able to tackle such a project.  I simply find this album to be way too self-indulgent for my tastes. 

My days of sitting down with the lyrics to listen to a full album for multiple listens are long gone.  I just don't have the time.  During the week, I have just about 2 hours a night to do whatever I want before heading to bed.  I don't want to take the entire 2 hours to listen to an album.  Especially this one.  I'll just have to wait another 3-4 years for the next album and hope it's more straight-forward.

And, enough with the ragtime piano breaks!  They serve absolutely no purpose.

A few thoughts/questions:

-What ragtime piano breaks on TA are you referring to?

-Most great art is self-indulgent.

-I agree that as I get older, it is harder to dedicate a lot of time to music, especially an album this long, but I was lucky in that my office moved literally a week before TA was released, so my drive to and from work went from 12-15 minutes to 20-30, depending on traffic, giving me more time in the car to spend with it the instant it was released.

-I think the "people just don't have the time for music anymore" is a dig at the current culture of younger music listeners, where people want instant gratification and can flip from this to that with the push of an iPhone button, meaning not nearly as many people will take the time to listen to a whole album vs decades ago.

[Prog Snob]

I know what you're talking about. Sometimes when life is always busy you have to put aside some of the things you enjoy. I went through a phase like that and forgot some of the things that make me who I am, so I made changes. It's still not always easy to make time for everything but I just have to prioritize  things differently.

It means that if you don't like it, it's only your fault. Dedicate more time and you will love it. You have got no choice lol.

There's really no logic to what you're saying, but that doesn't surprise me.

[cfmoran13]

-What ragtime piano breaks on TA are you referring to?

At about 3:30 into "Three Days".  There's something similar on SFaM.  I like Jordan just fine and appreciate his talents.  However, sometimes he has these little bits (such as this) that seem crowbarred into the songs.  Just my personal opinion.

-Most great art is self-indulgent.

I hear what you're saying.  But, there's self-indulgent and then there's SELF-INDULGENT.  This album for me is the latter.  I know I'm probably in the minority of people who don't care for this album.  But, in a year or two, I can see me reaching for Systematic Chaos before I reach for this one.

-I think the "people just don't have the time for music anymore" is a dig at the current culture of younger music listeners, where people want instant gratification and can flip from this to that with the push of an iPhone button, meaning not nearly as many people will take the time to listen to a whole album vs decades ago.

I totally agree.  Today's kids don't give a sh*t about whole albums anymore.  They have the attention span for one song, maybe two.  And, then, a week later, they're on to the next thing.  Personally, I love the album experience.  But, this one does absolutely nothing for me. 

And, while that one line I referenced may hold a different meaning for me than the one they're trying to get across (but was definitely not lost on me either), that secondary meaning that I see causes this album to leave a bad taste in my mouth.  Other people will feel differently about it.  That's the beauty of music.  One work from an artist can resonate 100 different ways with 100 different people. 

They're still one of my favorite bands.  Unfortunately, for me, for the most part, this album is a clunker.  That happens.  I don't think there's one artist/band out there whose entire catalog I love.  KISS has Sonic Boom.  Metallica has St. Anger.  Megadeth has Risk.  Def Leppard has... everything after Hysteria.  DT has The Astonishing.

[Lalin1974]

Well, Rush are keeping their path and DT is making it with ballads.

I am one of the biggest DT and Rush fans out there but I am not sure I agree with Rush keeping their path. Simply put, Rush have never had a particular path. It seems that everything they have done have come in two´s. They have done 2 albums of a certain style and then shifted to the next 2 albums with another style and so on. Farewell to Kings - Hemispheres , Permanent Waves - Moving Pictures, Signals - Grace under Pressure, Power Windows-Hold your Fire. And last but not least the same thing with Snakes & Arrows - Clockwork Angels.

Rush have changed direction multiple times over the years and I love every side of them depending on the mood I am in. Same goes for DT. That is what makes both these bands special. There is not a tag you can place on them and say "this is what defines them". I love the melodies of I&W, but I also love the heaviness of TOT. I love DT12 for its catchiness (is that  even a word) and simplicity, but I also love TA for its drama and storytelling.

I would not call Rush heavier than DT as a whole though. I agree that BU2B2 (one of my favourites on CA) is very heavy but it is not heavier than for instance A tempting Offer on TA

[JMSE]

ADTOE - great album, a bit of a departure from the balls to wall sound of the previous 2. Big kudos on them pulling 3 ballads (3 amazing ballads at that).  BAI is vintage DT and was much welcomed at the time; easy to see it was going to be a crowd favorite.

DT - Good album, i liked it but it's not the memorable album I will remember right away. IT is a kick ass song but their most straight forward epic to date (remove the strings section and it's very monotone for lack of a better word when compared to 8V, ACOS, BAI, LTL etc.).

TA - Top 4 for me. What an album; everything right with DT and some really refreshing sounds (Lord Nafaryus, 3 days, New Beginning). A much needed break from their traditional song structure too. 

[lovethedrake]

ADTOE-  Just didn't stick with me at all.  I was excited when I first heard it because it was somewhat of a departure from the metal sound they had gravitated towards.  However, I find it to be BY FAR the least memorable album of their catalogue.   The hooks on this album are just not very good.

DT- A very solid return to form aside from the boring straightforward metal on The Enemy Inside.   They seemed genuinely inspired on this record and outside of TEI the "NU" metal sound was finally gone.   The album does suffer from sounding slightly "generic" but the melodies are solid and Labrie sounds fantastic.   Petrucci also kills it throughout.

TA- Easily their best album since SDOIT.  So much to love and a true return to form of the style of music that made them great in the 90's.   There are a few too many ballads and sound effects on James' vocals but overall this is the best album since SDOIT and falls at #4 on my list behind SFAM, I&W, and SDOIT and right ahead of Awake and FII.

[Tony From Long Island]

I know things don't stay the same. Bands evolve like everything else.  But for me,  The Astonishing is the ONLY DT album is really really dislike.  In fact it's the only one I dislike at all.  When I put DT on my ipod and hit random, I find myself skipping every song fromTA.     I wish it wasn't that way.     

Took me a little while to get into Black Clouds and Dramatic, but the self-titled album stuck to me right away.

[red barchetta]

I know what you're talking about. Sometimes when life is always busy you have to put aside some of the things you enjoy. I went through a phase like that and forgot some of the things that make me who I am, so I made changes. It's still not always easy to make time for everything but I just have to prioritize  things differently.

It means that if you don't like it, it's only your fault. Dedicate more time and you will love it. You have got no choice lol.

There's really no logic to what you're saying, but that doesn't surprise me.

lol You too, thanks!

[TheOutlawXanadu]

-What ragtime piano breaks on TA are you referring to?

At about 3:30 into "Three Days".  There's something similar on SFaM.  I like Jordan just fine and appreciate his talents.  However, sometimes he has these little bits (such as this) that seem crowbarred into the songs.  Just my personal opinion.[/b

Sorry to eavesdrop, as I know this is a discussion you're having with KevShmev, but for some reason I felt a need to chime in on this.

My understanding is that the whole point of Three Days is to give the listener a bit of a break from the seriousness of the songs before it. It's meant to be goofy, funny, nerdy, ridiculous, and tongue-in-cheek. While I agree that DT has some songs where the ragtime bits are a little out of place, I respectfully disagree in the case of Three Days. From start to finish, the track is complete silliness, so to say that a silly ragtime bit sounds crowbarred in doesn't seem right to me. I dunno.. Maybe I'm being too charitable, but if there was ever a song where the goal was clearly "anything goes", Three Days is probably it.

[ariich]

While I disagree that Three Days is complete silliness, TOX, I agree that the whole song is built around that very theatrical and over-the-top vibe, to reflect the performance that Nafaryus is putting on to appear intimidating. It's still my favourite on the album.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

While I disagree that Three Days is complete silliness, TOX, I agree that the whole song is built around that very theatrical and over-the-top vibe, to reflect the performance that Nafaryus is putting on to appear intimidating. It's still my favourite on the album.

Yea, that's probably a better way of describing it.

[romanticrocker]

Wasn't nuts about the last album although it's great live but liked the past three albums

[KevShmev]

-What ragtime piano breaks on TA are you referring to?

At about 3:30 into "Three Days".  There's something similar on SFaM.  I like Jordan just fine and appreciate his talents.  However, sometimes he has these little bits (such as this) that seem crowbarred into the songs.  Just my personal opinion.

It's a 15-second section from an album over two hours long, and given the vibe of that song, that little piano bit fits perfectly and doesn't sound out of place or shoehorned in at all.

Props to TOX and ariich for basically saying the same thing.

[JustJen]

All 3.

[kirksnosehair]

Of their last 3 I'd have to pick ADTOE as my overall favorite.  I think it's the most diverse of the three albums and has the best songs.  Unfortunately, it also has the lowest production values of the three albums, thus, it doesn't have a whole lot of replay value for me. 


DT12 is an album I really, really wanted to love.  But it's my least favorite of the last 3.  The orchestra thing in the closing epic is probably the most clumsy thing they've done.  And many of the songs sound like something a Rush tribute band might write - which isn't necessarily a bad thing for one or two tracks.  Half an album?  Not so much.  I still give it 3/5 stars, but it just barely registers that 3. 


TA is an album that I think Petrucci needed to get out of his system.  This kind of sci-fi fantasy stuff is nothing new for him and I suspect that a ton of the riffs and melodies that appear on TA have probably been around since before Portnoy quit.  I can only speculate but I'd guess that Petrucci has been wanting to do this for a long time.  I don't see how he could have developed all of this detail in the same amount of time as their typical record/tour cycle has gone over the years. 


I like TA quite a bit (3.5/5) but it's one of those albums that I think is best consumed in one continuous listen and it's not often that I have almost 2 hours of uninterrupted time to listen.


I'd quite like it if they went heavy again (ala ToT) 

[Another_Won]

I'd quite like it if they went heavy again (ala ToT) 

YES!!! me too

[KevShmev]

Their 2nd most recent album is one of their heaviest to date, so I don't think they need to go that heavy again so quickly.

Given how much the song lengths have been shortened since Mangini joined the band, you have to wonder if their days of doing super longs on a regular basis are over.  With the exception of Illumination Theory, every song on the last two albums has been short (especially by their standards) and not padded at all.  I, for one, applaud the more concise songwriting.

[Daffypig]

I like all three to a certain degree:

ADTOE: Was close to god tier for me when it first came out, my opinion has softened a bit but it's still at least an 8, possibly 9/10 album.  Some of the long tunes go on a bit too long (LNF and Outcry, not BITS and BAI).  Drums are a bit too quiet but are acceptable sounding.

DT12: Probably my least favorite of the 3 MM albums, I'd probably give it a 7/10, lower that to a 6 if we're considering the drum sounds.  The shorter songs are mostly solid with TEI, BTV and STR being exceptional.  Illumination Theory has good parts but lacks cohesion, I'd rather have had a shorter IT and another song or two, and the Easter Egg should have been developed into a full song.  Drums went from being too quiet on ADTOE to obnoxiously loud and dull sounding here, and that's probably the biggest barrier to me enjoying this one.

TA: This is still new, especially for such a huge album, but I'd say I rank this somewhere between ADTOE and DT12, so probably a 7 or 8.  Some of the songs still haven't really stuck yet (Ravenskill, A Tempting Offer, The Path That Divides), and I have general complaints about the execution (too many parts played by guest musicians instead of the band doing something cool, too many songs ending the same way and almost never flowing into the next one, the general pointlessness of the NOMAC tracks aside from Descent of the Nomacs and Power Down, and of course ungodly amounts of cheese), but in spite of all that this is a hell of a great album with some awesome moments.  As far as drums go, I think this is the best of the MM era; yeah the snare drum sounds kinda triggered but it actually has power and doesn't sound dull and detuned like DT12's did.

[MetropolisWatches]

I really like the last 3 albums. Huge improvement from where the band was headed. SC along with BC&SL were DT's worst releases.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Seeing The Astonishing live has really rekindled my love for the album. I might even put it in my top tier now. It's really a ton of fun, and a couple dozen listens in, I'm still discovering new stuff. In retrospect, this was the perfect time in the band's career to do something like this.

[kirksnosehair]

Their 2nd most recent album is one of their heaviest to date, so I don't think they need to go that heavy again so quickly.

Given how much the song lengths have been shortened since Mangini joined the band, you have to wonder if their days of doing super longs on a regular basis are over.  With the exception of Illumination Theory, every song on the last two albums has been short (especially by their standards) and not padded at all.  I, for one, applaud the more concise songwriting.

4 years and two albums isn't quickly.  And I don't think you have the same idea of what's "heavy" as a lot of fans.  I wouldn't consider much of what they've done since Mangini joined to be "heavy" at all.  In fact I'd say they almost made an about face in terms of heaviness once Portnoy hit the road.  I wouldn't mind it if they brought that back for a few tracks.  I don't need a whole album of angry stuff like ToT, but a few tracks on the next album would be nice.  Mix things up a little bit. 

[Train of Naught]

I thought ADTOE was considerably heavy partially, tracks like LNF, BitS and BMUBMD. DT12? Not so much

[Enigmachine]

I thought ADTOE was considerably heavy partially, tracks like LNF, BitS and BMUBMD. DT12? Not so much

FAS, TEI, EM, BtV and IT were all pretty heavy songs. Overall heaviness is probably the same or maybe more.

[Prog Snob]

Their 2nd most recent album is one of their heaviest to date, so I don't think they need to go that heavy again so quickly.

Given how much the song lengths have been shortened since Mangini joined the band, you have to wonder if their days of doing super longs on a regular basis are over.  With the exception of Illumination Theory, every song on the last two albums has been short (especially by their standards) and not padded at all.  I, for one, applaud the more concise songwriting.

4 years and two albums isn't quickly.  And I don't think you have the same idea of what's "heavy" as a lot of fans.  I wouldn't consider much of what they've done since Mangini joined to be "heavy" at all.  In fact I'd say they almost made an about face in terms of heaviness once Portnoy hit the road.  I wouldn't mind it if they brought that back for a few tracks.  I don't need a whole album of angry stuff like ToT, but a few tracks on the next album would be nice.  Mix things up a little bit. 

I agree. I love their ass-kicking heavy tracks, but we don't need a whole album of it. For the record though, I think sometimes people, not saying you, confuse heavy and dark and think the two are interchangeable. I don't think ToT was all heavy, but it was definitely filled with dark undertones, from beginning to end.

[FsF]

I 'like' all of them in general terms. In DT terms, I like ATDOE while the more recent 2 are near the bottom of the album list.

[Dublagent66]

What are you talking about?  There aren't very many ballads on The Astonishing at all.

Exactly.  The next person who says there are a lot of ballads on this record, which is factually incorrect, should get an eye gouge.

Right, because DTF only deals in the facts.   Opinions vary on what is too much or not enough regardless of what songs are actually considered to be "ballads" or not.  3 or 4 could be a lot and even 1 or 2 may be too much for some people relatively speaking.  At any rate, there is quite a bit of "ballad" type material on this latest release and that's probably what most people mean when they say "ballads".  So, when you say "factually incorrect", that's not necessarily the case.  What's the standard number of ballads that constitutes "a lot" anyway?

[red barchetta]

What are you talking about?  There aren't very many ballads on The Astonishing at all.

Exactly.  The next person who says there are a lot of ballads on this record, which is factually incorrect, should get an eye gouge.

Right, because DTF only deals in the facts.   Opinions vary on what is too much or not enough regardless of what songs are actually considered to be "ballads" or not.  3 or 4 could be a lot and even 1 or 2 may be too much for some people relatively speaking.  At any rate, there is quite a bit of "ballad" type material on this latest release and that's probably what most people mean when they say "ballads".  So, when you say "factually incorrect", that's not necessarily the case.  What's the standard number of ballads that constitutes "a lot" anyway?

Well, there is indeed a large amount of ballads on it. 

[KevShmev]

What are you talking about?  There aren't very many ballads on The Astonishing at all.

Exactly.  The next person who says there are a lot of ballads on this record, which is factually incorrect, should get an eye gouge.

Right, because DTF only deals in the facts.   Opinions vary on what is too much or not enough regardless of what songs are actually considered to be "ballads" or not.  3 or 4 could be a lot and even 1 or 2 may be too much for some people relatively speaking.  At any rate, there is quite a bit of "ballad" type material on this latest release and that's probably what most people mean when they say "ballads".  So, when you say "factually incorrect", that's not necessarily the case.  What's the standard number of ballads that constitutes "a lot" anyway?

No idea, but the issue some seem to have is, they hear a song have a few mellow moments, and bam, it's a ballad. Besides, some have a very broad definition of what a ballad is. For example, I wouldn't call a song like Ravenskill a ballad, but I've seen it called one because it has that intro with just piano and JLB's voice. TA seems to have a fair amount of songs that both rock and veer into ballad territory.

[Enigmachine]

There's like 7-9 actual ballads on there, maximum. Even if we stretch the definition. Considering how many songs there are on the album and how much time those 7-9 songs take up, that's not really a lot.

[BlobVanDam]

I recall by my count there were 9. Even a lot of the songs that aren't ballads start off with similar soft ballady sections though, giving the impression of a lot more, and it also makes a lot of the album feel samey.