Like/Dislike for the past 3 albums

[red barchetta]

Rush are 15 years older than DT but makes heavier stuff than TA.

Does that really have relevance? You don't have to like the new CD or the heaviness and lack thereof but I'm not sure what being "less heavy" than Rush has to do with anything.

I find TA way too soft to like it.  Even after 15 times of listening carefully to it.  So many ballads, I can't believe it.  I would not recognize Rush if they would release something like that.

[Enigmachine]

What I mean is that if you look not only for one song but for a whole album, Clockwork Angels, the last Rush album is heavier than TA.  That's astonishing.  And you forgot to mention Headlong flight as a heavy song.  That song is great and heavier than any of the heavy song of TA. I'm just disappointed about the softness of TA.

Ok, 'Headlong Flight' is pretty heavy too, but not heavier than 'Moment of Betrayal', 'Three Days' or 'The Walking Shadow' by any stretch of the imagination.

And really when you talk about Rush materiel or what Rush has ever done, you are probably only talking about Clockwork Angels or you have no idea of what they have written in their career.

Dude, I've listened to their entire discography. Multiple times. There's a reason why they aren't known as Prog Metal, they aren't that heavy, though Clockwork Angels is actually probably the heaviest album they have done. Sure there are anomalies that cross into Metal territory like 'Anthem', 'Bastille Day' and 'Virtuality' but those are rare and not that heavy anyway. None of them are heavier than 'A New Beginning', 'A Tempting Offer' or 'The Path That Divides'.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Honestly, I've really enjoyed the last three albums. I'd rate all three somewhere from "Really Enjoyable" to "Amazing". In my opinion, the band's current three record run is better than any three record run of theirs since FII -> SDOIT.

Around the time MP left, I wasn't enjoying their music as much. I think they're firing on all cylinders right now.

[Prog Snob]

Rush are 15 years older than DT but makes heavier stuff than TA.

Does that really have relevance? You don't have to like the new CD or the heaviness and lack thereof but I'm not sure what being "less heavy" than Rush has to do with anything.

I find TA way too soft to like it.  Even after 15 times of listening carefully to it.  So many ballads, I can't believe it.  I would not recognize Rush if they would release something like that.

That's cool, really. That's your prerogative not to like it because it's not heavy enough. However, I'm not sure the age of the band as compared to Rush has to do with anything. Dream Theater didn't make a "softer" album because they're old.

[Dream Team]

What I mean is that if you look not only for one song but for a whole album, Clockwork Angels, the last Rush album is heavier than TA.  That's astonishing.  And you forgot to mention Headlong flight as a heavy song.  That song is great and heavier than any of the heavy song of TA. I'm just disappointed about the softness of TA.

Ok, 'Headlong Flight' is pretty heavy too, but not heavier than 'Moment of Betrayal', 'Three Days' or 'The Walking Shadow' by any stretch of the imagination.

And really when you talk about Rush materiel or what Rush has ever done, you are probably only talking about Clockwork Angels or you have no idea of what they have written in their career.

Dude, I've listened to their entire discography. Multiple times. There's a reason why they aren't known as Prog Metal, they aren't that heavy, though Clockwork Angels is actually probably the heaviest album they have done. Sure there are anomalies that cross into Metal territory like 'Anthem', 'Bastille Day' and 'Virtuality' but those are rare and not that heavy anyway. None of them are heavier than 'A New Beginning', 'A Tempting Offer' or 'The Path That Divides'.

Yup. Comparing Rush to DT in terms of heaviness is laughable.

[red barchetta]

What I mean is that if you look not only for one song but for a whole album, Clockwork Angels, the last Rush album is heavier than TA.  That's astonishing.  And you forgot to mention Headlong flight as a heavy song.  That song is great and heavier than any of the heavy song of TA. I'm just disappointed about the softness of TA.

Ok, 'Headlong Flight' is pretty heavy too, but not heavier than 'Moment of Betrayal', 'Three Days' or 'The Walking Shadow' by any stretch of the imagination.

And really when you talk about Rush materiel or what Rush has ever done, you are probably only talking about Clockwork Angels or you have no idea of what they have written in their career.

Dude, I've listened to their entire discography. Multiple times. There's a reason why they aren't known as Prog Metal, they aren't that heavy, though Clockwork Angels is actually probably the heaviest album they have done. Sure there are anomalies that cross into Metal territory like 'Anthem', 'Bastille Day' and 'Virtuality' but those are rare and not that heavy anyway. None of them are heavier than 'A New Beginning', 'A Tempting Offer' or 'The Path That Divides'.

?? Clockwork Angels is not as heavy than any albums they have done from their beginning to Moving Pictures.  I'm not sure you know Rush very well.  And they have been considered a prog band since 2112 for sure and heavy forever.

[red barchetta]

Rush are 15 years older than DT but makes heavier stuff than TA.

Does that really have relevance? You don't have to like the new CD or the heaviness and lack thereof but I'm not sure what being "less heavy" than Rush has to do with anything.

I find TA way too soft to like it.  Even after 15 times of listening carefully to it.  So many ballads, I can't believe it.  I would not recognize Rush if they would release something like that.

That's cool, really. That's your prerogative not to like it because it's not heavy enough. However, I'm not sure the age of the band as compared to Rush has to do with anything. Dream Theater didn't make a "softer" album because they're old.

What makes me love DT is their progressive metal sound with great harmonies but I was not thinking they would go that soft and by soft I mean only the fact that there are ballads after ballads.  I don't say the ballads are boring or not good.  I say why so many.

[red barchetta]

What I mean is that if you look not only for one song but for a whole album, Clockwork Angels, the last Rush album is heavier than TA.  That's astonishing.  And you forgot to mention Headlong flight as a heavy song.  That song is great and heavier than any of the heavy song of TA. I'm just disappointed about the softness of TA.

Ok, 'Headlong Flight' is pretty heavy too, but not heavier than 'Moment of Betrayal', 'Three Days' or 'The Walking Shadow' by any stretch of the imagination.

And really when you talk about Rush materiel or what Rush has ever done, you are probably only talking about Clockwork Angels or you have no idea of what they have written in their career.

Dude, I've listened to their entire discography. Multiple times. There's a reason why they aren't known as Prog Metal, they aren't that heavy, though Clockwork Angels is actually probably the heaviest album they have done. Sure there are anomalies that cross into Metal territory like 'Anthem', 'Bastille Day' and 'Virtuality' but those are rare and not that heavy anyway. None of them are heavier than 'A New Beginning', 'A Tempting Offer' or 'The Path That Divides'.

Yup. Comparing Rush to DT in terms of heaviness is laughable.

Well, Rush are keeping their path and DT is making it with ballads.

[bosk1]

What are you talking about?  There aren't very many ballads on The Astonishing at all. 

[jakepriest]

The fact that a lot of the songs have soft parts does not mean that they are ballads. By that logic Octavarium, Illumination Theory, Scarred, Endless Sacrifice etc. are ballads too. 

[Prog Snob]

Keep this in mind regarding the ballads. There are 4-5 times more songs on these CDs than we're used to getting from Dream Theater. You might be hearing more ballads but that's because there are more songs. 

[Enigmachine]

What I mean is that if you look not only for one song but for a whole album, Clockwork Angels, the last Rush album is heavier than TA.  That's astonishing.  And you forgot to mention Headlong flight as a heavy song.  That song is great and heavier than any of the heavy song of TA. I'm just disappointed about the softness of TA.

Ok, 'Headlong Flight' is pretty heavy too, but not heavier than 'Moment of Betrayal', 'Three Days' or 'The Walking Shadow' by any stretch of the imagination.

And really when you talk about Rush materiel or what Rush has ever done, you are probably only talking about Clockwork Angels or you have no idea of what they have written in their career.

Dude, I've listened to their entire discography. Multiple times. There's a reason why they aren't known as Prog Metal, they aren't that heavy, though Clockwork Angels is actually probably the heaviest album they have done. Sure there are anomalies that cross into Metal territory like 'Anthem', 'Bastille Day' and 'Virtuality' but those are rare and not that heavy anyway. None of them are heavier than 'A New Beginning', 'A Tempting Offer' or 'The Path That Divides'.

?? Clockwork Angels is not as heavy than any albums they have done from their beginning to Moving Pictures.  I'm not sure you know Rush very well.  And they have been considered a prog band since 2112 for sure and heavy forever.

Lets break it down:

Self-titled - 70s Hard Rock. Working Man is pretty heavy though.

Fly By Night - Heavy Prog Rock. Anthem is a borderline-Metal song and By-Tor is borderline-borderline. Like hell is anything else heavy.

Caress of Steel - Bastille Day is pretty Metal. The Necromancer and Fountain are Heavy for Prog Rock.

2112 - Title track has full-on Metal in it (albeit for the 70s). Something for Nothing is heavy. Rest aren't.

Farewell - Title track and Xanadu are sort of heavy. Cyngus ending is legitimately pretty heavy. Rest aren't really Metal / Heavy.

Hemispheres - Cyngus X2 is kind of heavy as is Circumstances. La Villa has some heavy moments. Heaviest yet.

Permenant - Jacobs Ladder and Natural Science have some heavy moments. Not the rest.

Moving Pictures - YYZ is one of their heaviest songs. Tom Sawyer, Limelight and Red Barchetta would be kind of heavy.

Clockwork (Maybe about as heavy as TA overall, could be less) - Caravan, BU2B, Clockwork Angels, The Anarchist, Headlong Flight are more heavy than 90% of the songs above.

Rush aren't a heavy band relative to DT. They just aren't. Clockwork Angels is unusually heavy for the band.

[KevShmev]

What are you talking about?  There aren't very many ballads on The Astonishing at all.

Exactly.  The next person who says there are a lot of ballads on this record, which is factually incorrect, should get an eye gouge.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Let's remember that people usually refer as ballads songs that have slower tempo and that have some acoustic guitar/piano on them lols.

[red barchetta]

For me, the term "ballads" is different than your interpretation as the term "heavy" is.  But enough arguing, I will say that the tempo is pretty slow on most of the album.  And not considering Rush as heavy stuff, especially from 1974 to 1981 is totally nonsense.  I surrender.

[ariich]

For me, the term "ballads" is different than your interpretation as the term "heavy" is.  But enough arguing, I will say that the tempo is pretty slow on most of the album.  And not considering Rush as heavy stuff, especially from 1974 to 1981 is totally nonsense.  I surrender.

You think The Astonishing is full of ballads, but you think Rush is "heavy".

I do not understand you.

[Lax]

Fanboy here !
First time I heard ADTOE, I thought "OMG they're back !", from TOT to BC&SL I was satisfied but not as much blasted as I've been with SFAM and SDOIT.
I think I feel like a plus when they express hope, love, crazyness, rather than death, despair, addiction, heartbreaks...
Don't get me wrong, I love all the albums and always found many songs to worship

So ADTOE is more old DT's structured, and riffs are breathing, like bridges chorus, or breaking all illusions intensity
DT12 is like a rollercoaster to me, sounding way better live...The intro with their movie with all the animated albums' cover is tearjerking, ennemy inside is as powerful as the time I saw them opening with glass prison, and illumination theory is for me one of their greatest songs.

The Astonishing is the album I was waiting for since SDOIT, I seek epicness and emotion in DT, I've been heartpierced. Plus this album contains riffage from all their discography, plus a life left behind's intro sounds like LTE, plus many patch made me think of the wheel/rythm of time rudess' solo album. I may have remarks on mixing as many of us, but this is my the wall

(Live, I saw them opening with The glass prison, bridges in the sky and ennemy inside...My balls are still juggling)

[Disciple_Kickstand]

A little baffled at the comparison of heaviness between TA and Rush's clockwork angels. Kind of a WTF train of thought.  If that is the way your gonna look at it then I think it should be noted that DT12 came out between TA and Clockwork angles and DT12 absolutely slays CA in heaviness. So if your going to be comparing the bands recent output and who jams the hardest and heaviest DT is still the heavier band. So much so that it sounds like a good number of people are more than a little refreshed by an album that is a little less dominated by crushing riffs and pummeling drums.

[Thierry]

Don't like Illumination Theory.

Wow, that's an insult to one of the best DT songs.

[BlobVanDam]

Don't like Illumination Theory.

Wow, that's an insult to one of the best DT songs.

That wasn't an insult, and it's not one of DT's best songs.

[Enigmachine]

Don't like Illumination Theory.

Wow, that's an insult to one of the best DT songs.

That wasn't an insult, and it's not one of DT's best songs.

Opinions, though. But yeah, saying you don't like something isn't in any way an insult. Just a matter of expressing personal taste.

[Prog Snob]

Don't like Illumination Theory.

Wow, that's an insult to one of the best DT songs.

That wasn't an insult, and it's not one of DT's best songs.

Well it wasn't an insult, it was just opinion. You're right on that account. As far as placement it might make it into my Top 25. I try and compare it to other songs of similar length, ACOS, 8V, Six Degrees, TCOT, ITPOE, and I think it's at the bottom of that list.

[red barchetta]

I don't consider Illumination theory one of DT best song.  For me that song is way overrated.  They have tried to make it as an epic song like many others they have.  The last part, V. Surrender, trust and passion is epic, fantastic ending.

[hefdaddy42]

Rush is fantastic, but they are not heavy.  They are not metal.

In fact, I hesitate even to call them a prog band.  They are definitely a rock band, and they definitely had a stretch of time where they made prog music.

But they are not and never have been a metal band.  Whereas DT is clearly a prog metal band.  That's been pretty consistently what they do.

If you don't like The Astonishing because it doesn't measure up to your personal heaviness quotient, that's certainly your prerogative.  But although the album has its share of softer passages, that doesn't make DT all of sudden less heavy than Rush.  The thought is just silly.

[Enigmachine]

Rush is fantastic, but they are not heavy.  They are not metal.

In fact, I hesitate even to call them a prog band.  They are definitely a rock band, and they definitely had a stretch of time where they made prog music.

But they are not and never have been a metal band.  Whereas DT is clearly a prog metal band.  That's been pretty consistently what they do.

If you don't like The Astonishing because it doesn't measure up to your personal heaviness quotient, that's certainly your prerogative.  But although the album has its share of softer passages, that doesn't make DT all of sudden less heavy than Rush.  The thought is just silly.

I got the feeling that I'm listening to a different Rush than the one red barchetta was listening to, when he kept mentioning that Rush 'stayed heavy' while TA is 'too soft'. Great band, but as you said, not that heavy.

[Thematt202]

Really like ADTOE, like DT12 and adore The Astonishing.

[Hanz Gruber]

I like all 3 even though DT12 and TA are some of their weakest albums IMO.  Every Dream Theater album is quality....even their weaker ones.

I like ADTOE more than the other 2 by a decent sized margin.

[Hanz Gruber]

Rush are 15 years older than DT but makes heavier stuff than TA.

Does that really have relevance? You don't have to like the new CD or the heaviness and lack thereof but I'm not sure what being "less heavy" than Rush has to do with anything.

I find TA way too soft to like it.  Even after 15 times of listening carefully to it.  So many ballads, I can't believe it.  I would not recognize Rush if they would release something like that.

That's cool, really. That's your prerogative not to like it because it's not heavy enough. However, I'm not sure the age of the band as compared to Rush has to do with anything. Dream Theater didn't make a "softer" album because they're old.

What makes me love DT is their progressive metal sound with great harmonies but I was not thinking they would go that soft and by soft I mean only the fact that there are ballads after ballads.  I don't say the ballads are boring or not good.  I say why so many.

That is part of what drags TA down.  Many of the ballads (after repeated listens) are catchy and are really good quality.  If the album wasn't held back by a concept (story) and the album was more diverse it would have went over a lot better.

Spreading a lot of these ballads over a couple of albums mixed in with more diverse songs would have been ideal but I still like the album.  I feel some of the material was great and was kind of wasted though and dragged down by the story/concept. (My music player)

[thosava]

I actually like TA and DT12 a lot more than ADTOE.

[Enigmachine]

If the album was more diverse it would have went over a lot better.

Well, it's already at least in the top 3 most diverse DT albums (probably the most, actually). That shouldn't be a criticism of TA.

[red barchetta]

I like all 3 even though DT12 and TA are some of their weakest albums IMO.  Every Dream Theater album is quality....even their weaker ones.

I like ADTOE more than the other 2 by a decent sized margin.

Amen

[red barchetta]

Rush are 15 years older than DT but makes heavier stuff than TA.

Does that really have relevance? You don't have to like the new CD or the heaviness and lack thereof but I'm not sure what being "less heavy" than Rush has to do with anything.

I find TA way too soft to like it.  Even after 15 times of listening carefully to it.  So many ballads, I can't believe it.  I would not recognize Rush if they would release something like that.

That's cool, really. That's your prerogative not to like it because it's not heavy enough. However, I'm not sure the age of the band as compared to Rush has to do with anything. Dream Theater didn't make a "softer" album because they're old.

What makes me love DT is their progressive metal sound with great harmonies but I was not thinking they would go that soft and by soft I mean only the fact that there are ballads after ballads.  I don't say the ballads are boring or not good.  I say why so many.

That is part of what drags TA down.  Many of the ballads (after repeated listens) are catchy and are really good quality.  If the album wasn't held back by a concept (story) and the album was more diverse it would have went over a lot better.

Spreading a lot of these ballads over a couple of albums mixed in with more diverse songs would have been ideal but I still like the album.  I feel some of the material was great and was kind of wasted though and dragged down by the story/concept. (My music player)

I agree with you.  And finally for you to understand what I wanted to explain about Rush vs DT heaviness, DT for sure are doing much heavier stuff, heavier riffs compare to Rush.  What I meant was that if I listen to Rush last album for example, the whole stuff is more balance towards something heavy while DT's TA has got so much ballads and slow mood passage that the average of heaviness might be lower than Rush stuff.  Can't really explain it better.  And for finally saying also something about how I could qualify Rush music, they have been mentioned as a prog rock band for decades.  No need to look on the net and show you that, that's a fact.  They have not been mentioned as a metal band or just a bit probably around 2112 and they have been described as a heavy band and heavy prog band a lot of times.  You know, back in the days when there was no web, I had started a scrap book about Rush (I still have it) and progmetal, heavy band, progrock, hardrock, all qualifications they were described as.  Call them what you want, we all know they were not pop!

[SwedishGoose]

There is not a Dream Theater album that I don't like....

TA is a top 3 contender for me the other 2 are middle tier.

[CharlesPL]

1st option

[Zydar]

I like ADTOE and DT12 but not TA.