Author Topic: Justice Scalia Dead at 79  (Read 3797 times)

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Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #105 on: February 23, 2016, 12:49:24 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 05:07:40 PM by Calvin6s »
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Online El Barto

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #106 on: February 23, 2016, 01:01:40 PM »
Your point was that the GOP never want a Dem nominee.
You tell me, do they?

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That's the whole point.  And you've clearly chosen a side and where to assign blame.  So that really wasn't a both sides do it argument.
No, I think neither side wants the other to name a justice. Moroever, I think Biden played the same bullshit card in 92 and he was as wrong then as the GOP is now. It's far too obvious a logical conclusion to let partisan nonsense get in the way.

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No interest in bringing up that we spent the last 7 years of a President that didn't even have his first day in office telling the GOP to shut up in get in the back seat?  That the Dem Legislature completely shut the GOP out of the process on day one.  And when those roles reversed, the President brought out his pen.  And now we are going to pull the "hey man.  Turns out we need you for this.  Come on.  Rise above."
Nope. None at all. I moved beyond 3rd grade in the Carter administration.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #107 on: February 23, 2016, 01:04:06 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 05:08:01 PM by Calvin6s »
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #108 on: February 23, 2016, 01:09:07 PM »
Your point was that the GOP never want a Dem nominee.  That's the whole point.
*looks around*

That wasn't my point or El Barto's point, so I'm not sure who you are talking about.  My point was the roles of the branches of government in the process, and EB specifically said "Nobody wants the other side to get to pick a justice."

And you've clearly chosen a side and where to assign blame.  So that really wasn't a both sides do it argument.
I have chosen a side insofar as it is the GOP who are the offending party at this time.  That's all.  I am not a Democrat.

Why is it always the GOP that must break the cycle?
It isn't "always" the GOP, but it is the GOP this time because they are the ones with the opportunity to do so.  I think McConnell is making a big mistake by avoiding the chance to rise above.  That would be good for the GOP's image, IMO.

No interest in bringing up that we spent the last 7 years of a President that didn't even have his first day in office telling the GOP to shut up in get in the back seat?  That the Dem Legislature completely shut the GOP out of the process on day one.  And when those roles reversed, the President brought out his pen.  And now we are going to pull the "hey man.  Turns out we need you for this.  Come on.  Rise above."
Not sure what any of that has to do with this, other than, as EB mentioned, schoolyard politics.  But whatever.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #109 on: February 23, 2016, 01:15:11 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 05:08:14 PM by Calvin6s »
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Online El Barto

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #110 on: February 23, 2016, 01:19:39 PM »
Your point was that the GOP never want a Dem nominee.
You tell me, do they?

But that isn't the point that you said was made that both sides do that.
That is what you said. 
You kind of lost me there. What I have said, and can further elaborate, is that neither side wants the other party to be in the White House when this opportunity arises. I can tell you with complete confidence that the democrats don't want a republican nominee. I can say the same thing about the GOP with the same degree of certainty. It's just common sense. So you tell me, does the GOP want to have to approve a democrat nominated justice?

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And clearly, you make it sound like all the weight is on the GOP side of this recent equation.  I beg to differ.
Well, yeah, it is. They're the ones obstructing at the moment.

And out of curiosity, was Biden right in '92?
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #111 on: February 23, 2016, 01:34:00 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 05:08:26 PM by Calvin6s »
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #112 on: February 23, 2016, 01:49:24 PM »
And if they insist on that strategy for the rest of the year, and the Democrats take the Senate while a Republican wins the Presidency, I hope this scenario actually happens, at which point Obama will possibly be able to make as liberal a choice as he wants.  I would laugh my ass off.

Is that pre-3rd grade thinking?
Maybe.  But under that circumstance I would still laugh.  And I would presume you would approve of it too, given your attitude toward GOP obstructionism.  After all, if the GOP shouldn't break the cycle, then how could you argue that the President shouldn't play their game as well?

But I don't think it will happen, even under those circumstances.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #113 on: February 23, 2016, 02:15:51 PM »
I would just posit that, completely apart from this particular discussion, there is a difference between (a) laughing at "3rd grade behavior" vs. (b) engaging in it.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #114 on: February 23, 2016, 02:20:14 PM »
I would just posit that, completely apart from this particular discussion, there is a difference between (a) laughing at "3rd grade behavior" vs. (b) engaging in it.
That is certainly true.

But like I said, even if Democrats win the Senate and a Republican wins the Presidency, offering up that circumstance, I seriously doubt that Obama would attempt that.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #115 on: February 23, 2016, 03:17:33 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 05:08:47 PM by Calvin6s »
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #116 on: February 23, 2016, 04:31:40 PM »
You haven't specifically stated your opinion, but your most recent posts in this thread in discussion with me or with EB seem to indicate your thoughts.

You don't agree with McConnell's line of thinking?
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #117 on: February 23, 2016, 05:48:02 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 05:09:00 PM by Calvin6s »
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #118 on: February 24, 2016, 08:59:51 AM »
So...you do agree?

Help me out here.  Because it seems pretty black and white to me.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #119 on: February 24, 2016, 09:39:08 AM »
Because it seems pretty black and white to me.
Racist
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline Scorpion

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #120 on: February 24, 2016, 09:41:50 AM »
Reported for name-calling. This will not be tolerated.
scorpion is my favorite deathcore lobster
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #121 on: February 24, 2016, 10:05:45 AM »
Because it seems pretty black and white to me.
Racist
I meant the judge's robes and shirt beneath
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #122 on: February 24, 2016, 10:19:18 AM »
Oh.  I thought you were referring to your white robe and hood, and your blackest of hearts underneath.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #123 on: February 24, 2016, 10:30:38 AM »
I understand the confusion.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #124 on: February 24, 2016, 10:33:04 AM »
:lol

:hearts:
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #125 on: February 24, 2016, 10:35:57 AM »
Oh.  I thought you were referring to your white robe and hood, and your blackest of hearts underneath.

Don't forget his blackest eyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh9osYZNilU

 :metal

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #126 on: February 24, 2016, 10:36:47 AM »
 :metal
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #127 on: February 24, 2016, 02:23:00 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 05:09:17 PM by Calvin6s »
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #128 on: February 24, 2016, 02:32:11 PM »
No I haven't.  The President should fulfill his responsibility, and the Senate should fulfill theirs.

I also listed a humorous possible scenario that I don't expect to happen.  Pure conjecture and silliness.

What matters much more is the actual scenario that is happening now.

You still listed two different "ways of looking at it."  Which way do YOU look at it?
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #129 on: February 24, 2016, 02:52:57 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 05:09:34 PM by Calvin6s »
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Online El Barto

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #130 on: February 24, 2016, 03:00:42 PM »
You still listed two different "ways of looking at it."  Which way do YOU look at it?

That's the whole point.  I look at everything in life at different angles.  Using Stadler's, I neither simply look at the way things are nor the way they should be.  I consider both to have merit.

I've given examples of my real life of being both textbook and when necessary, go against that textbook because it literally turns a negative into a positive.  The decision is made to go that route when it is painstakingly clear that dwelling on the negative isn't going to make that negative go away.

1.  Cash for Clunkers.  Really stupid program.  But at that point in time, it was a financially a good move for me.
2.  The Real Estate Bubble.  I could see the bubble as early as 2003.  Watching friends get loans for a home they couldn't afford with a no/low interest / interest only payment for years 1 to 3, take out a HELOC 1 year later to buy bling to give the impression they were wealthy.  When it is all boiled down, that was the crux of the bubble.  But the bubble was going to happen regardless of whether I flipped a house or not.

I'm all for BOTH SIDES stopping the BS with Supreme Court nominees.  But it is clear they are not. 

And then you have a third angle.  The reaction to the "we won't confirm anybody" resulted in a bunch of "Obama could show them up by sending up a moderate".  You could just be witnessing a negotiation.

There are people that play party lines.   The gullible people are the ones that actually believe the words at face value.

I also know what will happen with the media.  Any nominee Obama puts forward will be deemed a *moderate* regardless of the facts.
All makes sense to me. However, you're only citing one extreme of the bolded part. The left leaning media will deem any nominee a moderate, as you say, and the right leaning media will pronounce anybody put forth a bleeding heart liberal.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #131 on: February 24, 2016, 03:07:10 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 05:09:50 PM by Calvin6s »
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Online El Barto

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #132 on: February 24, 2016, 03:19:27 PM »
I think the two sides are pretty much even-Steven. Just because the right is made up of only FOX, WSJ and one or two others doesn't mean they don't provide half of this country's infotainment.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline portnoy311

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #133 on: February 24, 2016, 04:13:16 PM »
Sandoval, the Republican Nevada governor is being vetted for this position. I'll love to see how this plays out.

Online El Barto

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #134 on: February 24, 2016, 04:34:06 PM »
Yeah, I mentioned Sandoval last week as being the ultimate trump card. My hunch is that they'd cite his pro-choice beliefs in shooting him down, but that's exactly how you're not supposed to do it. However, I heard Reed mentioning him as an ideal candidate, but Sandoval's people have said that nothing has been mentioned to them. I haven't heard anything about him actually being vetted.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #135 on: February 24, 2016, 04:38:09 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 05:10:02 PM by Calvin6s »
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #136 on: February 24, 2016, 04:42:30 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 05:10:12 PM by Calvin6s »
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Offline portnoy311

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #137 on: February 24, 2016, 08:41:28 PM »
There's definitely that possibility. Either Obama is trolling, or he's not. How confident are the GOP senators in that he is, that they'd risk blocking a Republican (latin) Governor from the court, just because Obama?

This president has shown his legacy is always on his mind, would he pull an old fashioned Supreme Court switch-a-roo at the last minute?


Would Sandoval go along with being a pawn? He's a sharp guy, I'm interested to see how he acts in the coming weeks.


Really though, I do have to laugh that the GOP Senate is so scared of its own shadow at this point that a Republican being vetted has it running around in loops screaming foul! They were so prepared for an extreme liberal, that Sandoval being in the picture has them in a tizzy. Kinda funny in a sad way. This whole thing is ridiculous.

Online El Barto

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #138 on: February 24, 2016, 08:58:27 PM »
I don't see this as a chess match. It's a poker game and Obama stumbled into four aces. You don't complicate things when the simplest thing is a victory.

The GOP is already saying that Sandoval won't get a hearing, although the individual republicans are going to have think more about it. My personal favorite, though, is Deb Fischer who said "no, it's not about the person."  :lol

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Would Sandoval go along with being a pawn? He's a sharp guy, I'm interested to see how he acts in the coming weeks.
Would anybody? That's one of the real shames of all of this. Now you not only have to find a qualified candidate, but also one willing to subject himself to this silliness. Ironically, I have to wonder if a reborn Scalia would even accept a nomination under these conditions. He probably wouldn't.
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Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Justice Scalia Dead at 79
« Reply #139 on: February 24, 2016, 09:04:26 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 05:10:27 PM by Calvin6s »
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.