Poll

Who is your FAVORITE NFL Team!

Arizona Cardinals
0 (0%)
Atlanta Falcons
1 (1.2%)
Baltimore Ravens
2 (2.5%)
Buffalo Bills
1 (1.2%)
Carolina Panthers
6 (7.4%)
Chicago Bears
2 (2.5%)
Cincinnati Bengals
0 (0%)
Cleveland Browns
0 (0%)
Dallas Cowboys
1 (1.2%)
Denver Broncos
5 (6.2%)
Detroit Lions
1 (1.2%)
Green Bay Packers
9 (11.1%)
Houston Texans
1 (1.2%)
Indianapolis Colts
0 (0%)
Jacksonville Jaguars
0 (0%)
Kansas City Chiefs
1 (1.2%)
Los Angeles Rams
1 (1.2%)
Miami Dolphins
2 (2.5%)
Minnesota Vikings
4 (4.9%)
New England Patriots
13 (16%)
New Orleans Saints
0 (0%)
New York Giants
3 (3.7%)
New York Jets
4 (4.9%)
Oakland Raiders
1 (1.2%)
Philadelphia Eagles
3 (3.7%)
Pittsburgh Steelers
8 (9.9%)
San Diego Chargers
1 (1.2%)
San Francisco 49ers
4 (4.9%)
Seattle Seahawks
6 (7.4%)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
1 (1.2%)
Tennessee Titans
0 (0%)
Washington Redskins
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 81

Author Topic: 2016 NFL THREAD - Ryan vs. Rodgers, Pats vs. Pitt  (Read 27545 times)

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Online Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2695 on: January 09, 2017, 08:32:07 AM »
Honestly, I don't want to start debating who should be considered an elite QB or not again.

Just enjoying a big Steeler win yesterday.

Don't know how big of a win it really was, I mean, they were supposed to do that to the Dolphins, so good on them for showing up and executing.

To me that's big. I have my doubts about this Steelers team as a whole and their mental and emotional toughness. So them doing what they were expected to isn't surprising to me, but it is encouraging. Also - it's the playoffs aren't all wins arguably big?

I think they can beat KC next week, but if they have to play the Pats in FB for the AFC championship, I'm not sure this team can do that. Their defense still has some very big holes and past Brown, they don't have anyone else to really be a threat at wide-out.

I'd argue that the Christmas Day game was bigger than drubbing the Dolphins with a 2nd string QB. Heck, the Texans were credited with a playoff win despite playing an Oakland team without a league MVP candidate.

I have Pittsburgh beating KC next week. I do not trust KC in that spot. Hopefully, they prove me wrong.

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2696 on: January 09, 2017, 08:40:59 AM »
I'd argue that the Christmas Day game was bigger than drubbing the Dolphins with a 2nd string QB. Heck, the Texans were credited with a playoff win despite playing an Oakland team without a league MVP candidate.

I'd probably agree the Christmas day game was bigger, but still, like I said, a playoff win is a playoff win.

I have Pittsburgh beating KC next week. I do not trust KC in that spot. Hopefully, they prove me wrong.

I think Pittsburgh will win, but I'm just not terribly confident in that pick. :lol

Offline Shooters1221

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2697 on: January 09, 2017, 10:20:21 AM »
I'd argue that the Christmas Day game was bigger than drubbing the Dolphins with a 2nd string QB. Heck, the Texans were credited with a playoff win despite playing an Oakland team without a league MVP candidate.

I'd probably agree the Christmas day game was bigger, but still, like I said, a playoff win is a playoff win.

I have Pittsburgh beating KC next week. I do not trust KC in that spot. Hopefully, they prove me wrong.



I think Pittsburgh will win, but I'm just not terribly confident in that pick. :lol

I agree with all of this, but they should have beat Miami by 18 or more and they did. How many times in the last 4 or 5 years have we Steeler Nation faithful been let down because they played down to the competition and lost to inferior teams, so  :tup for the W yesterday.

They are better than K.C. too, but that doesn't mean they will win. It's on the road in the most hostile stadium in the NFL. They just don't look like the same team on the road, but I too, think they will come out with a close victory.

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2698 on: January 09, 2017, 10:29:17 AM »
I agree with all of this, but they should have beat Miami by 18 or more and they did. How many times in the last 4 or 5 years have we Steeler Nation faithful been let down because they played down to the competition and lost to inferior teams, so  :tup for the W yesterday.

They are better than K.C. too, but that doesn't mean they will win. It's on the road in the most hostile stadium in the NFL. They just don't look like the same team on the road, but I too, think they will come out with a close victory.

Agreed on all counts. As a Steeler fan it's hard to expect a win against a lesser opponent with Tomlin as your coach sometimes. You are happy when it happens but it's becoming all to common for his teams to play down to the competition, like you mentioned.

Also, good call on the home vs. road thing being a factor. Ben has been MUCH better at home this season vs on the road.

Online Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2699 on: January 09, 2017, 10:46:17 AM »
I agree with all of this, but they should have beat Miami by 18 or more and they did. How many times in the last 4 or 5 years have we Steeler Nation faithful been let down because they played down to the competition and lost to inferior teams, so  :tup for the W yesterday.

They are better than K.C. too, but that doesn't mean they will win. It's on the road in the most hostile stadium in the NFL. They just don't look like the same team on the road, but I too, think they will come out with a close victory.

Agreed on all counts. As a Steeler fan it's hard to expect a win against a lesser opponent with Tomlin as your coach sometimes. You are happy when it happens but it's becoming all to common for his teams to play down to the competition, like you mentioned.

Also, good call on the home vs. road thing being a factor. Ben has been MUCH better at home this season vs on the road.

So not elite on the road?   :angel:

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2700 on: January 09, 2017, 10:46:56 AM »

Online Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2701 on: January 09, 2017, 11:25:04 AM »
I know it's well documented but wow... Bell is the most patient runner that I have ever seen. 

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2702 on: January 09, 2017, 11:36:32 AM »
I know it's well documented but wow... Bell is the most patient runner that I have ever seen.

Yup, it's pretty incredible. It's certainly one of those things that goes against the typical fundamentals of the position. Kids are always taught as RBs to hit those holes as hard and as quick as they can, Bell in a lot of instances does the opposite, he pauses, shifts, and sneaks somewhere to find room. When it works, he looks brilliant. When it doesn't Steeler fans yell and scream for him to turn into Jerome Bettis or something.  :lol

Offline Dream Team

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2703 on: January 09, 2017, 11:47:44 AM »
Bell is a freak, but Tomlin will use him up before he's 27. He'll probably have at least another 35 touches next week. A lot of this is a result of not having Bryant around to take the top off the defense.

Saw an interesting stat on an NFL site; I hadn't realized how consistently good the Broncos have been since the merger. They are 2nd to Pittsburgh in winning % (I would have guessed Cowboys, Niners, or Patriots) and those are the only 2 non-expansion teams to lose less than 300 games since the 1970 merger.

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2704 on: January 09, 2017, 11:52:26 AM »
Bell is a freak, but Tomlin will use him up before he's 27. He'll probably have at least another 35 touches next week. A lot of this is a result of not having Bryant around to take the top off the defense.

Tag him and then bag him. Mike will run him into the ground in the meanwhile.

Seriously though, I've continually said not to give Bell a long term deal for a number of reasons. Some of those reasons are specific to Bell himself (suspensions, injuries, etc...) and some are specific to the organization (basically Tomlin runs backs into the ground and recycles them every couple years). But, if this group makes a deep run into the playoffs and Bell continues to play like he did yesterday, I might start to have a hard time finding reasons not to keep him.

Offline pogoowner

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2705 on: January 09, 2017, 12:11:33 PM »
Bell is a freak, but Tomlin will use him up before he's 27. He'll probably have at least another 35 touches next week. A lot of this is a result of not having Bryant around to take the top off the defense.

Tag him and then bag him. Mike will run him into the ground in the meanwhile.

Seriously though, I've continually said not to give Bell a long term deal for a number of reasons. Some of those reasons are specific to Bell himself (suspensions, injuries, etc...) and some are specific to the organization (basically Tomlin runs backs into the ground and recycles them every couple years). But, if this group makes a deep run into the playoffs and Bell continues to play like he did yesterday, I might start to have a hard time finding reasons not to keep him.
Remember what the Steelers did to Willie Parker? Woof. And he was a lot smaller than Bell.

Offline PowerSlave

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2706 on: January 09, 2017, 12:52:30 PM »
Bell is a freak, but Tomlin will use him up before he's 27. He'll probably have at least another 35 touches next week. A lot of this is a result of not having Bryant around to take the top off the defense.

Tag him and then bag him. Mike will run him into the ground in the meanwhile.

Seriously though, I've continually said not to give Bell a long term deal for a number of reasons. Some of those reasons are specific to Bell himself (suspensions, injuries, etc...) and some are specific to the organization (basically Tomlin runs backs into the ground and recycles them every couple years). But, if this group makes a deep run into the playoffs and Bell continues to play like he did yesterday, I might start to have a hard time finding reasons not to keep him.
Remember what the Steelers did to Willie Parker? Woof. And he was a lot smaller than Bell.

That's true, but you hit on the main issue with Willie. I don't think that he was built physically to ever be a feature back. Other than the knee injuries, I can't think of a time that Bell has taken a lot of punishment. Part of that is due to his running style ect.
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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2707 on: January 09, 2017, 12:59:43 PM »
His hesitating, avoiding contact, evasive, etc... running style might be his saving grace in terms of durability. It's just so hard to predict with running backs.

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2708 on: January 09, 2017, 02:41:14 PM »
There was one and only one example of elite QB play yesterday and that was Aaron Rodgers.

Roethlisberger and Eli were equally very good.

Make up your mind.  Was there only one or three?
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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2709 on: January 09, 2017, 02:43:01 PM »
There was one and only one example of elite QB play yesterday and that was Aaron Rodgers.

Roethlisberger and Eli were equally very good.

Make up your mind.  Was there only one or three?

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2710 on: January 09, 2017, 07:26:26 PM »


They are better than K.C. too, but that doesn't mean they will win.

That remains to be seen. I get that KC is not a sexy pick, but they are a great team.  They have the 2 seed and a bye for a reason (okay, two reasons, Carr getting hurt being the other :lol).

PowerSlave I'm with you on Ben and I've been down this road with Kev before. Unfortunately it seems like Kev just does't like Ben and pulls certain stats or arguments to support a conclusion he has already come to. But whatever, it's all good. I'm sure Ben's good with his champions that he has won and he will be without question, a first ballot hall of famer.

I actually have no problem with Ben.  I actually thought he was underrated for years, when some referred to him as a game manager (which is often meant as a criticism), but then at some point, he became overrated.  To explain, he has always struck me as a second tier QB (like the 5th to 7th best in the league), so when some were saying he was a game manager, or average, they were underrating him, but now many overrate him by putting him in the top tier where he doesn't belong.  Make sense?

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2711 on: January 09, 2017, 07:35:01 PM »
I look at Big Ben like Gronk. Imagine if both could stay healthy?


Problem is what makes them great lead them to get injured.
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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2712 on: January 10, 2017, 07:55:03 AM »
I actually have no problem with Ben.  I actually thought he was underrated for years, when some referred to him as a game manager (which is often meant as a criticism), but then at some point, he became overrated.  To explain, he has always struck me as a second tier QB (like the 5th to 7th best in the league), so when some were saying he was a game manager, or average, they were underrating him, but now many overrate him by putting him in the top tier where he doesn't belong.  Make sense?

Oh I get it, it makes sense, we just don't agree on this topic, that's all. I respect your opinion, you clearly follow football WAY closer than I do nowadays, we just feel differently in this regard.

Also - I have actually never, ever heard Ben described as a game manager type of quarterback...Most local media in the Pittsburgh area that cover the team closely have viewed Ben as a gunslinger type of QB for a long time. Just in recent seasons he's started to shed that label a bit. They (the local media boys) usually want him to be more of a game manager (they perceive he would get hurt less that way).

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2713 on: January 10, 2017, 11:47:45 AM »
I actually have no problem with Ben.  I actually thought he was underrated for years, when some referred to him as a game manager (which is often meant as a criticism), but then at some point, he became overrated.  To explain, he has always struck me as a second tier QB (like the 5th to 7th best in the league), so when some were saying he was a game manager, or average, they were underrating him, but now many overrate him by putting him in the top tier where he doesn't belong.  Make sense?

Oh I get it, it makes sense, we just don't agree on this topic, that's all. I respect your opinion, you clearly follow football WAY closer than I do nowadays, we just feel differently in this regard.

Also - I have actually never, ever heard Ben described as a game manager type of quarterback...Most local media in the Pittsburgh area that cover the team closely have viewed Ben as a gunslinger type of QB for a long time. Just in recent seasons he's started to shed that label a bit. They (the local media boys) usually want him to be more of a game manager (they perceive he would get hurt less that way).

Ben was never known as a game manager, by local or national press. His strengths were always described as being able to avoid sacks, escape the pocket and improvise on the run. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding the use of the "game manager" phrase.

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2714 on: January 10, 2017, 12:02:59 PM »
I think early on many did view him as a game manager. When the team was very run-heavy, he attempted few passes, and was more or less hidden in the offense aside from the occasional shot down the field. Obviously he developed fairly quickly and became more involved, however, especially once Arians took over the offense.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 10:47:01 PM by pogoowner »

Offline splent

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2715 on: January 10, 2017, 09:24:14 PM »
My take on games:

Ne vs Houston - well duh

Pitt vs KC - I think this will be closer than many realize esp with Ben hurt. I think KC pulls it off, but I wok the be surprised either way. It's going to be a close one.

Atl vs Sea - I think the falcons take it. Seahawks are just too inconsistent.

Dal vs GB - in my completely unbiased opinion GB will stuff Elliott and rip the Cowboys to shreds
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Offline DragonAttack

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2716 on: January 11, 2017, 07:07:36 AM »
Questions from last weekend:  the hits on Miami QB Moore, and Packer WR Nelson.....were there fines, and of what amount?  I thought both were 'football' plays, with no launching, intentional cheap shots, etc. 


Offline Dream Team

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2717 on: January 11, 2017, 07:16:05 AM »


They are better than K.C. too, but that doesn't mean they will win.

That remains to be seen. I get that KC is not a sexy pick, but they are a great team.  They have the 2 seed and a bye for a reason (okay, two reasons, Carr getting hurt being the other :lol).

PowerSlave I'm with you on Ben and I've been down this road with Kev before. Unfortunately it seems like Kev just does't like Ben and pulls certain stats or arguments to support a conclusion he has already come to. But whatever, it's all good. I'm sure Ben's good with his champions that he has won and he will be without question, a first ballot hall of famer.

I actually have no problem with Ben.  I actually thought he was underrated for years, when some referred to him as a game manager (which is often meant as a criticism), but then at some point, he became overrated.  To explain, he has always struck me as a second tier QB (like the 5th to 7th best in the league), so when some were saying he was a game manager, or average, they were underrating him, but now many overrate him by putting him in the top tier where he doesn't belong.  Make sense?

Totally cool. I've been unreasonably vocal of my support for Ben as great because he doesn't do it consistently enough on the road. His last 16 home games are INSANE, like 5400 yards and 50 TDs, but on the road pretty average. That needs to change NOW.

One quick thing, his counting stats sometimes don't impress as much because of the games he's  missed, but if you pro-rate his stats out he's over 4000 yds each of the last 8 years and averaging 30 TDs. Too many picks though, which is why this KC game really scares me.

Offline Shooters1221

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2718 on: January 11, 2017, 07:21:12 AM »
Questions from last weekend:  the hits on Miami QB Moore, and Packer WR Nelson.....were there fines, and of what amount?  I thought both were 'football' plays, with no launching, intentional cheap shots, etc.

At the time of this post Dupree has not been fined on the Moore hit, I suspect he will though. I didn't think the Nelson hit was illegal, maybe a little late, but it was a normal rib shot. No fine yet on that either.

Offline DragonAttack

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2719 on: January 11, 2017, 08:30:53 AM »
^
Thank you.

btw, was anyone surprised at Rodgers' Hail Mary last weekend?  How odd is it that I figured their chance for success on that play was around 75%.  Four of them in thirteen months (I'm counting two vs. Arizona) and a handful of long, late TD throws. 

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2720 on: January 11, 2017, 08:43:15 AM »
Questions from last weekend:  the hits on Miami QB Moore, and Packer WR Nelson.....were there fines, and of what amount?  I thought both were 'football' plays, with no launching, intentional cheap shots, etc.

At the time of this post Dupree has not been fined on the Moore hit, I suspect he will though. I didn't think the Nelson hit was illegal, maybe a little late, but it was a normal rib shot. No fine yet on that either.

the hit on Nelson was illegal because the defender led with his helmet.
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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2721 on: January 11, 2017, 09:16:51 AM »
^
Thank you.

btw, was anyone surprised at Rodgers' Hail Mary last weekend?  How odd is it that I figured their chance for success on that play was around 75%.  Four of them in thirteen months (I'm counting two vs. Arizona) and a handful of long, late TD throws.

Yea, I felt very much like they were going to convert that hail mary.

Offline bosk1

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2722 on: January 11, 2017, 09:20:21 AM »
My take on games:

Ne vs Houston - well duh

Pitt vs KC - I think this will be closer than many realize esp with Ben hurt. I think KC pulls it off, but I wok the be surprised either way. It's going to be a close one.

Atl vs Sea - I think the falcons take it. Seahawks are just too inconsistent.

Dal vs GB - in my completely unbiased opinion GB will stuff Elliott and rip the Cowboys to shreds

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Offline Shooters1221

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2723 on: January 11, 2017, 09:49:08 AM »
Questions from last weekend:  the hits on Miami QB Moore, and Packer WR Nelson.....were there fines, and of what amount?  I thought both were 'football' plays, with no launching, intentional cheap shots, etc.

At the time of this post Dupree has not been fined on the Moore hit, I suspect he will though. I didn't think the Nelson hit was illegal, maybe a little late, but it was a normal rib shot. No fine yet on that either.

the hit on Nelson was illegal because the defender led with his helmet.

Yeah, just watched it again, his helmet did hit first, my bad.

Offline DragonAttack

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2724 on: January 11, 2017, 10:01:01 AM »
Questions from last weekend:  the hits on Miami QB Moore, and Packer WR Nelson.....were there fines, and of what amount?  I thought both were 'football' plays, with no launching, intentional cheap shots, etc.

At the time of this post Dupree has not been fined on the Moore hit, I suspect he will though. I didn't think the Nelson hit was illegal, maybe a little late, but it was a normal rib shot. No fine yet on that either.

the hit on Nelson was illegal because the defender led with his helmet.

I know it was 'illegal', but I still thought it was a 'football' play.  No 'malice' or intent to injure.  If Nelson holds on, the defender is aiming to hit the ball and knock it loose.  A lot changes in that last split second.  On Christmas Day, the Ravens and Steelers were flagged for helmet to helmet fouls.  Both fan bases were upset with the calls.  Under the new rules, I 'guess' they got them right, and I understand, but, in each instance, there was no launching or aiming at the head.  They were simply making a tackle, and the ball carrier's body lowered a fraction before the hit.  Since they are subjective calls, I wish those type of plays were only 5 yard penalties.

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2725 on: January 11, 2017, 10:10:50 AM »
Questions from last weekend:  the hits on Miami QB Moore, and Packer WR Nelson.....were there fines, and of what amount?  I thought both were 'football' plays, with no launching, intentional cheap shots, etc.

At the time of this post Dupree has not been fined on the Moore hit, I suspect he will though. I didn't think the Nelson hit was illegal, maybe a little late, but it was a normal rib shot. No fine yet on that either.

the hit on Nelson was illegal because the defender led with his helmet.

Yeah, just watched it again, his helmet did hit first, my bad.

Watching that play live, I didn't think it was illegal, but later in the game they showed it again saying how he would get a fine and I kind of agreed.  He did lean with the helmet so by definition thats an illegal hit, but I kind of still think that was just a football play because I don't see any intent and it did seem like he was going for the ball, but if he got fined I don't think that would be wrong either.

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2726 on: January 11, 2017, 01:33:20 PM »
Winners this weekend:

New England
Kansas City
Atlanta
Green Bay

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - No Romo? No Problem!
« Reply #2727 on: January 11, 2017, 07:17:46 PM »
Divisional Round Power Rankings
1. New England - their cakewalk to the AFCCG continues this week
2. Dallas - if they truly are the NFC's best, they will have proven it the next two weeks
3. Kansas City - a better team than many think
4. Atlanta - time to shut up the naysayers
5. Green Bay - Rodgers is All-World right now
6. Pittsburgh - Bell and Brown are scary, but they'll need to turn their road woes around to get to New England
7. Seattle - feels like many are still picking them thinking they can suddenly become the 2013 Seahawks again
8. Houston - this team is still a fraud

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2728 on: January 12, 2017, 12:25:04 AM »
Chargers informed the league of their intentions to move to L.A.
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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - Divisional Week
« Reply #2729 on: January 12, 2017, 02:00:41 AM »
Chargers informed the league of their intentions to move to L.A.

I'm sad to see that. It's never a good thing to see a city lose their team.
Thankee-sai