2016 NFL THREAD - Super Bowl 51 - Patriots' Day: V - Screw Goodell

[cramx3]

I have to say, this is the least excited I've been about the playoffs in a long time.  I am sure part of it is because the Broncos aren't in it, but this was a pretty blah season, and with some ugly games on the horizon this weekend, the usual excitement for playoff football just isn't there for me.

Getting back to the blah season, how many games were there that made you think, "Dang, this game is awesome." I can't think of any.  USC/Penn St last night in the Rose Bowl was far better than any NFL game I saw this season.

I'd chalk about all this up to the fact that there are a lot of bad to mediocre teams in the league. The product really isn't good at this point.

I kind of agree, while I am excited because my team is in the playoffs, these match ups overall do not really look exciting.

[mikeyd23]

I kind of agree, while I am excited because my team is in the playoffs, these match ups overall do not really look exciting.

That's pretty much where I am at, I'm excited to see the Steelers make the playoffs, but not that excited about the playoffs in general. I personally am just not as into the NFL as I used to be.

[El Barto]

Chiefs/Broncos, week 12 (TNF, I believe) was loads of fun.

But by and large I agree that week one of the playoffs is looking surprisingly weak. Though part of it is that my expectations have gone up tremendously over the last 6 or so years. We've been treated to some awesome games in the playoffs of late, even if this year is looking like a downer.

As for me, what I'd like most is a Dallas/NE SB, so I still have a keen interest in the goings on.

[King Postwhore]

The last 4 or 5 years can anyone remember a good wildcard game?  For the life of me I can't.  The Divisional Round is when it gets exciting.

[T-ski]

The last 4 or 5 years can anyone remember a good wildcard game?  For the life of me I can't.  The Divisional Round is when it gets exciting.

Colts/Chiefs a couple years ago was tremendous.

[El Barto]

Only because I can't remember what week particular games occurred on. Each week there are good games and bad, and we might get four great games this week for all I know. What I do know for sure is that this week looks to be pretty damned uninteresting.

[King Postwhore]

The last 4 or 5 years can anyone remember a good wildcard game?  For the life of me I can't.  The Divisional Round is when it gets exciting.

Colts/Chiefs a couple years ago was tremendous.

I can't even remember that game. I think for the most part the good games on the wildcard weekend are far and few.

[cramx3]

Only because I can't remember what week particular games occurred on. Each week there are good games and bad, and we might get four great games this week for all I know. What I do know for sure is that this week looks to be pretty damned uninteresting.

I kind of feel this.  The games don't look interesting on paper, but maybe will end of being good, except maybe that Houston Oakland game with their crappy QBs.

[DragonAttack]

Using 'wiki' and the 'season' year, this decade there have been many a dud, but also these

2010:  The 7-9 Seahawks beat the defending SB champ Saints on the 'earthquake' run
           The Jets go into Indy and stun the Colts on a Folk FG on the last play, after Vinateri hits one with less than a minute left.
           On the way to winning the SB, the Packers intercept an end zone pass with 33 seconds left to hold off the Eagles in Philly.

2011:  The 12-4 Steelers lose in Denver to the 8-8 Broncos on the Tebow to Thomas catch and run on the first play of OT.

2012:  Personal....the Ravens FINALLY get the pain of the Irsays/Colts out of their systems by winning 24-9, on their way to the SB.
          Seattle comes back from 14 down, and wins in DC by mauling a gimpy Griffin.

2013:  The Colts 28 point comeback at Kansas City.
          Saints win in cold Philly on a FG as time expires, 26-24.
          Kaepernick leads the 49ers to a late winning FG in frigid Green Bay.

2014:  Ravens over the Steelers, 30-17, their first in four tries in Pittsburgh (after two mentally crushing defeats in '08 and '10). 
           Detroit loses in Dallas, thanks to a late and controversial noncall on a pass interference.

2015:  Steelers kick the winning FG in monsoon conditions, as the Bengals beat themselves after two late PFs.
          The Vikings miss the chip shot winning FG to lose to the Seahawks in beautiful sun-drenched Minneapolis, also the third coldest
          game in NFL history.

So, it tends to be 50-50 on good game/clunker.  This year, Packers-Giants should give us a great one.  Perhaps Seattle's recently acquired Devon Hester gives one or two breaks to the Lions to keep that one close.   Texans-Raiders could be 13-12.  And the Steelers might somehow commit 5 TOs.   

         
         

[King Postwhore]

I remember that Broncos game now.  No one could believe Tebow threw that pass.

[cramx3]

I remember that Broncos game now.  No one could believe Tebow threw that pass.

Yea, I also thought that was Tebow's breakout performance where he would actually be considered to be a legit NFL QB.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I remember that Broncos game now.  No one could believe Tebow threw that pass.

Yea, I also thought that was Tebow's breakout performance where he would actually be considered to be a legit NFL QB.

Boy were you wrong lol.

[cramx3]

I remember that Broncos game now.  No one could believe Tebow threw that pass.

Yea, I also thought that was Tebow's breakout performance where he would actually be considered to be a legit NFL QB.

Boy were you wrong lol.

  sure was.  He didn't have a good completion percentage, but played well that game when no one gave him a chance.  Not that I am a Tebow fan or anything, just thought he might have finally broke through.

[Dr. DTVT]

OMG    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/look-billy-joel-hilariously-sings-through-the-name-of-every-browns-qb-since-1999/

Scroll to bottom for song.

[KevShmev]

I remember that Broncos game now.  No one could believe Tebow threw that pass.

To say I went bananas when Thomas ran that pass in for a TD would be an understatement.  That was one of those "I can't believe that just happened, but holy shit it was awesome!" moments.

[DragonAttack]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/look-billy-joel-hilariously-sings-through-the-name-of-every-browns-qb-since-1999/

Scroll to bottom for song.

Funny and well done at the same time.  Thanks.

(wish I could find the satire from years ago, when Larry Brown was talking of leaving the Pistons, titled 'I've Coached Everywhere', done to Johnny Cash's  song.)

[Architeuthis]

The Seahawks just signed Devin Hester on to their roster for special teams. Tyler Lockett is out for the season with a broken ankle (bummer).  This ought to be interesting to have Devin Hester just in time for the play-offs..

[cramx3]

The Seahawks just signed Devin Hester on to their roster for special teams. Tyler Lockett is out for the season with a broken ankle (bummer).  This ought to be interesting to have Devin Hester just in time for the play-offs..

Assuming he has anything left in the tank, I mean the guy's available for a reason.  Granted, I'd take him on my return team.

[King Postwhore]

[KevShmev]

Looks like an ESPN poll of 42 coaches, scouts, and coordinators have Big Ben as the #3 QB behind Brady and Rodgers. Too bad they don't know football like all the experts at DTF.

Those coaches, scouts and coordinators are wrong a lot, as shown by how often they miss when it comes to the draft every year.  This is just another example of them being wrong.

I feel smart again. 

Many were ready to throw that Ben in that elite category last summer, but it's clear that he is still not there.

-10th in QBR/11th in passer rating this year
-11th in YPA
-zero talk about him being the MVP.  Five QBs have regularly been a part of the MVP discussion (Ryan, Brady, Rodgers, Carr and Prescott), and despite his team winning 11 games, zero talk about Ben.  If a supposed elite QB's team wins 11 games, he is almost always at least in the discussion.

I think he gets the benefit of the doubt because he is consistently about the 5th-7th best QB in the league, as he has been for most of his career, while guys like Ryan, Newton, etc. kind of bounce up and down from year to year. (Newton was the best QB last year, but barely even average this year; Ryan wasn't considered a top 10 QB anymore after last year, but just had a phenomenal season), so it's easy to promote that guy up a few notches since he is consistently a 2nd tier QB, but here we have yet another year where Ben wasn't one of the top 5 QBs and isn't in the MVP discussion (has he EVER been a legit MVP candidate?).

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Predictions for WC Weekend

5. Oakland at 4. Houston
6. Detroit at 3. Seattle
6. Miami at 3. Pittsburgh
5. New York at 4. Green Bay


It's funny, I'll be rooting exactly the opposite in all four games save the GB/NY game... I like them teams about the same.

[KevShmev]

I think all four home teams will win.

I think Houston is a joke, but the Raiders QB situation is brutal now. I have a feeling they threw the towel in after Carr went down.

I am going to choke the next person who mentions 2007 and 2011 when talking about Giants/Packers.  Those games mean jack shit as far as who will win tomorrow.

[faizoff]

My picks are also all home teams, though the NY/GB game I feel is a harder pick with GB slightly edging out the Giants.

[PowerSlave]

Looks like an ESPN poll of 42 coaches, scouts, and coordinators have Big Ben as the #3 QB behind Brady and Rodgers. Too bad they don't know football like all the experts at DTF.

Those coaches, scouts and coordinators are wrong a lot, as shown by how often they miss when it comes to the draft every year.  This is just another example of them being wrong.

I feel smart again. 

Many were ready to throw that Ben in that elite category last summer, but it's clear that he is still not there.

-10th in QBR/11th in passer rating this year
-11th in YPA
-zero talk about him being the MVP.  Five QBs have regularly been a part of the MVP discussion (Ryan, Brady, Rodgers, Carr and Prescott), and despite his team winning 11 games, zero talk about Ben.  If a supposed elite QB's team wins 11 games, he is almost always at least in the discussion.

I think he gets the benefit of the doubt because he is consistently about the 5th-7th best QB in the league, as he has been for most of his career, while guys like Ryan, Newton, etc. kind of bounce up and down from year to year. (Newton was the best QB last year, but barely even average this year; Ryan wasn't considered a top 10 QB anymore after last year, but just had a phenomenal season), so it's easy to promote that guy up a few notches since he is consistently a 2nd tier QB, but here we have yet another year where Ben wasn't one of the top 5 QBs and isn't in the MVP discussion (has he EVER been a legit MVP candidate?).

He's played the season with only one legitimate starting WR. The team's big free-agency signing to replace one of the league's better TE's only played a handful of games. Ryan, Carr and Prescott would have been lucky to win 9 games with the same situation at their skill positions.

[KevShmev]

He's played the season with only one legitimate starting WR. The team's big free-agency signing to replace one of the league's better TE's only played a handful of games. Ryan, Carr and Prescott would have been lucky to win 9 games with the same situation at their skill positions.

Let's be serious. He had the best WR in football for the entire season, and had arguably the best RB in football (he and David Johnson are 1a and 1b) for 13 of the 16 games (and DeAngelo was a beast those first three games). If that's not being set up to succeed, I don't know what it is.  Matt Ryan did just fine with a bunch of WR castoffs and no-name TE to go along with his stud WR and RBs.  Prescott was throwing to Cole Beasley and Terrence Williams at WR for a while when Dez Bryant was out, and did just fine.  Carr resurrected the career of Crabtree, who looked done.

Sorry, but the "Roethlisberger is elite" is the biggest crock of shit in pro football right now. 

[RoeDent]

So after a reasonable 10-7 showing in my regular-season predictions, based on the BBC radio commentary game each week (one of the Sunday 4pm ET kickoffs), I now move on to the playoffs, where I try and pick the winner of all 11 games (4 wildcards, 4 divisionals, 2 championships and the Super Bowl). This weekend I'm going for Oakland, Seattle, Pittsburgh and Green Bay. The outer two of those were basically coin tosses, Oakland-Houston between who might edge it between not-particularly-good quarterbacks, and NYG-GB because I just have a feeling that Rodgers might just do what Rodgers does, even against a good Giants defense, at Lambeau, in January.

And while I'm here, it's a strange quirk of the playoff system that the 12-4 Raiders, despite their great regular season (at least until Derek Carr got injured) have to travel to the 9-7 Texans. I know the divisions are there for local convenience (generally, although someone explain to me how Dallas is considered to be in the East), but perhaps it might be better if the best teams get the higher seeds regardless of what division they're in.

[PowerSlave]

He's played the season with only one legitimate starting WR. The team's big free-agency signing to replace one of the league's better TE's only played a handful of games. Ryan, Carr and Prescott would have been lucky to win 9 games with the same situation at their skill positions.

Let's be serious. He had the best WR in football for the entire season, and had arguably the best RB in football (he and David Johnson are 1a and 1b) for 13 of the 16 games (and DeAngelo was a beast those first three games). If that's not being set up to succeed, I don't know what it is.  Matt Ryan did just fine with a bunch of WR castoffs and no-name TE to go along with his stud WR and RBs.  Prescott was throwing to Cole Beasley and Terrence Williams at WR for a while when Dez Bryant was out, and did just fine.  Carr resurrected the career of Crabtree, who looked done.

Sorry, but the "Roethlisberger is elite" is the biggest crock of shit in pro football right now.

None of those guys have shown the ability to win consistently year after year like Ben has. True, Dak is only at the beginning of his career, but that only means that the best anyone can do is guess. Matt Ryan has had elite weapons for his entire career, including arguably the best TE to ever play the game for a few of those years and he's only been a legitimate SB contender once.

Let's start with some basic stats:

1. He's one of only six QB's to have victories over 31 teams in his career.
2. He had a better record in his rookie campaign than Dak. His first start was the 2nd game of the season and he didn't lose until the AFC Championship game against Brady.
3. He has the fourth highest career winning percentage as a starter in the regular season among quarterbacks with a minimum of 100 starts.
4. He currently ranks 9th all-time in NFL passer rating, tied for 6th in yards per attempt, and tied for 10th in completion percentage among quarterbacks with a minimum of 1,500 career attempts.
5. His worst regular season record is 8-8. Never a losing season.

As far as this season goes, he didn't have Bell for "13 of 16 games". They both were rested the final week of the season, and Ben missed a game due to his knee surgery. That makes it 11 of 14. Speaking of his knee, he was injured in the first half and other than a series or two when the team used Landry Jones, he played over a half of football with a knee that needed surgical repair and it showed. His numbers in that game, and the game that he made his return from the surgery were abysmal. Arguably poor enough to have a serious impact on the numbers for the rest of the season. I won't lie, his performances against Philly and Buffalo weren't exactly pretty, either.

He's proven to be superior to the two QB's that were drafted ahead of him. He's second among active QB's for championship/super bowl appearances. What more can you ask of him?

[PowerSlave]

someone explain to me how Dallas is considered to be in the East)

That's a left-over from the time that there were only 3 divisions per conference, instead of the 4 divisions that we have now. Some teams were kept in divisions that didn't make sense geographically to maintain traditional rivalry games. This is also the same reason that Miami is in the AFC East instead of the AFC South.

[RoeDent]

someone explain to me how Dallas is considered to be in the East)

That's a left-over from the time that there were only 3 divisions per conference, instead of the 4 divisions that we have now. Some teams were kept in divisions that didn't make sense geographically to maintain traditional rivalry games. This is also the same reason that Miami is in the AFC East instead of the AFC South.

At least Florida's in the (south-)east of the USA, so they can get away with that one. Dallas is nowhere near the 'east' of anything. It's only just about in the east of Texas.

(I do take your point, btw. It's just mildly baffling to this observer from the other side of the Pond.)

[Destiny Of Chaos]

There was a time when the NFC West consisted of teams in San Francisco, New Orleans, Atlanta, St. Louis and Carolina.

[TAC]

I am going to choke the next person who mentions 2007 and 2011 when talking about Giants/Packers.   

What are 2007 and 2011?



Go Packers! 

[Stadler]

I picked the Texans in my pool - though I confess to forgetting that Watt was out - and yet I'm watching this Raiders team, scrappy, like the Raiders of old, and looking at Brock Ozwierdo with that deer in the headlights look, and I'm actually rooting against my pick.   Cook is the first QB in the Super Bowl era (that's 50 years) to make his first career start in the playoffs, and while he sucks, he's not making bad mistakes (that I saw; I took a break to shovel some snow) and the Texans can't seem to wait to hand this game over to them.   

[KevShmev]

He's played the season with only one legitimate starting WR. The team's big free-agency signing to replace one of the league's better TE's only played a handful of games. Ryan, Carr and Prescott would have been lucky to win 9 games with the same situation at their skill positions.

Let's be serious. He had the best WR in football for the entire season, and had arguably the best RB in football (he and David Johnson are 1a and 1b) for 13 of the 16 games (and DeAngelo was a beast those first three games). If that's not being set up to succeed, I don't know what it is.  Matt Ryan did just fine with a bunch of WR castoffs and no-name TE to go along with his stud WR and RBs.  Prescott was throwing to Cole Beasley and Terrence Williams at WR for a while when Dez Bryant was out, and did just fine.  Carr resurrected the career of Crabtree, who looked done.

Sorry, but the "Roethlisberger is elite" is the biggest crock of shit in pro football right now.

None of those guys have shown the ability to win consistently year after year like Ben has. True, Dak is only at the beginning of his career, but that only means that the best anyone can do is guess. Matt Ryan has had elite weapons for his entire career, including arguably the best TE to ever play the game for a few of those years and he's only been a legitimate SB contender once.

Let's start with some basic stats:

1. He's one of only six QB's to have victories over 31 teams in his career.
2. He had a better record in his rookie campaign than Dak. His first start was the 2nd game of the season and he didn't lose until the AFC Championship game against Brady.
3. He has the fourth highest career winning percentage as a starter in the regular season among quarterbacks with a minimum of 100 starts.
4. He currently ranks 9th all-time in NFL passer rating, tied for 6th in yards per attempt, and tied for 10th in completion percentage among quarterbacks with a minimum of 1,500 career attempts.
5. His worst regular season record is 8-8. Never a losing season.

As far as this season goes, he didn't have Bell for "13 of 16 games". They both were rested the final week of the season, and Ben missed a game due to his knee surgery. That makes it 11 of 14. Speaking of his knee, he was injured in the first half and other than a series or two when the team used Landry Jones, he played over a half of football with a knee that needed surgical repair and it showed. His numbers in that game, and the game that he made his return from the surgery were abysmal. Arguably poor enough to have a serious impact on the numbers for the rest of the season. I won't lie, his performances against Philly and Buffalo weren't exactly pretty, either.

He's proven to be superior to the two QB's that were drafted ahead of him. He's second among active QB's for championship/super bowl appearances. What more can you ask of him?

Okay, where to begin...

I wasn't asking for more of him.  He has been a really, really good NFL QB.  You can't ask for more than that.

Your first two points are irrelevant as to if he is elite right now or not.  So is the point about him being than the others in his draft (which has nothing to do with whether or not he is elite).

As for Bell, my bad regarding week 17, but the fact remains that the Steelers had an elite running game or RB in every game this season (except maybe week 17; I have no idea who their RB was against the Browns or how well they did).

Wins is a team stat.  Now, having an above average QB definitely makes you more likely to win a lot of games, but Ben landed on a team that had averaged 10 wins a season in the 12 seasons prior to his arrival, so he was lucky to land in a winning culture on a team that always drafts well and is run about as well as any NFL team historically. In 12 seasons with Ben, they have averaged 11 wins a season.  So basically, he has been one win better per season than Korell Stewart, Tommy Maddox, Neil O'donnell and Mike Tomzcak.

Regarding his injuries, he gets hurt every year, so he doesn't get a pass for those games.  If you get hurt every year and your stats in a game or two suffer as a result, that is a part of who you are.  Maybe he should try playing 16 games in a season again for once.

I am not arguing that he isn't very good; he is.  He's just not elite or in the top tier of NFL QBs.  Never has been.

[PowerSlave]

  So basically, he has been one win better per season than Korell Stewart, Tommy Maddox, Neil O'donnell and Mike Tomzcak.

The difference being that none of those players could bring a championship home, and only one of them even made it to a super bowl. He's made it to three.

I am not arguing that he isn't very good; he is.  He's just not elite or in the top tier of NFL QBs.  Never has been.

I suppose that it depends on your definition of elite. In my opinion, there are only two QB's that are better than him that are currently playing in the league. Tom Brady and Aaron Rogers.

Furthermore, the same argument could have been made about Elway in the latter part of his career in regards to needing a good/great running game to win. I don't think that anyone in their right mind would claim that he wasn't an elite QB. Montana always had a good run game. The list could go on and on. In fact, the only great QB that comes to mind that didn't have the benefit of a great run game was Marino, and he could never win a championship.

[El Barto]

If some owner was dumb enough to make me a head coach, any player that signals "our ball", "first down", or "penalty's on them" and isn't right gives up 1/3 of his game check. Don't pretend you know WTF you're talking about if you don't. Every single time there's a fumble 8 guys from each team start signalling "our ball." What is it, wishful thinking?

I don't like stupid behavior.