Author Topic: Flint, Michigan water issue  (Read 539 times)

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Offline DragonAttack

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Flint, Michigan water issue
« on: February 07, 2016, 01:01:05 AM »
Cannot believe there are no discussions, comments, etc....regarding the poisoning of tens of thousands of Americans, after removing the citizens' voting rights, pulling a GOP dictatorial BS maneuver...

How would you feel if your governor had pulled this stunt?  How would you feel if the resulting actions ended up with your children/relatives/friends......   YOUR SELF !!!!

Intentionally poisoned?

I worked in Michigan years ago for the betterment of downstream users and future generations.

Doesn't anyone think it is criminally negligible?

« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 08:20:43 AM by DragonAttack »

Offline pogoowner

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Re: Flint, Michigan....the atrocity
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2016, 01:10:39 AM »
Not only do I think those responsible should be removed from office, but I think there should be criminal prosecution. Government officials knew about the lead situation far, far, far too long without addressing it.

Offline Genowyn

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Re: Flint, Michigan....the atrocity
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2016, 01:35:40 AM »
To me, the absolute worst thing about this is that when GM complained that the water was corroding their car parts, they were given a special hookup to clean water, but they still let people drink that water.

...my name is Araragi.

Offline DragonAttack

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Re: Flint, Michigan....the atrocity
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2016, 02:51:24 AM »
^
I want to say, 'astonishing, is it not?'....but that sounds so.....silly.

I know my friends that are in the Wolverine State are just....SO.....PISSED...., but they cannot do anything for some reason.  Cannot wait for the GOP debate in March.  Will Gov. Rick Snyder (if not in prison), bring Flint River water to the candidates? 

What stinks even worse....it is Obama's fault :D  Just ask the BS idiots on Faux (if they care)

My goodness....these are fellow Americans, but no one seems to give a crap.   Why????????????????

Offline Chino

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Re: Flint, Michigan....the atrocity
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2016, 04:31:43 AM »
Anyone working in city hall only drank bottle water starting months before the public found out how bad it really was. I read a few days ago that inmates are still being given to poor quality water.

Offline kaos2900

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Re: Flint, Michigan....the atrocity
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2016, 06:54:47 AM »
Terrible story and the government officials who lied or covered it up need to be held responsible. That being said, you're argument would seem more genuine if you didn't try to bash the GOP and 'Faux' news every chance you can. This is not a left vs right issue and I'm sure people on both sides of the aisle are responsible.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Flint, Michigan....the atrocity
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2016, 11:15:48 AM »
Terrible story and the government officials who lied or covered it up need to be held responsible. That being said, you're argument would seem more genuine if you didn't try to bash the GOP and 'Faux' news every chance you can. This is not a left vs right issue and I'm sure people on both sides of the aisle are responsible.

BOOM. 

I've worked extensively in the environmental field, doing both remediation and administrative work, and while I am somewhat surprised at how this happened, and how it got so far along, I can tell you unequivocally that it CANNOT happen by virtue of "one party" alone.  This is a societal failure, not a "GOP" failure, and "Faux News" (as opposed to say, the "Communist News Network"?) had nothing to do with it. 

If someone knew about it, and was in a position to do something about it (had a duty) then it is negligence, pure and simple.  But the environmental protection process - both state and federal - is set up such that there are mechanisms for action to be taken to prevent it from ever being a "political" (in the "two party" sense of the word) issue.   Both State senators from Michigan are Democrat, and generally speaking, Democrats are strong in the part of the state that includes Flint. 

Offline Cable

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Re: Flint, Michigan....the atrocity
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2016, 12:07:52 PM »
How is this a societal failure? Society meaning the structure and management of those in office during this?
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Flint, Michigan....the atrocity
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2016, 03:29:24 PM »
How is this a societal failure? Society meaning the structure and management of those in office during this?

Meaning, not a failure attributable to "politics" or any one person.  This is a people failure.  There were PEOPLE - of more than one color, of more than one political persuasion - who could have prevented, stopped, or mitigated this disaster and they didn't.  There is no benefit to using words like "GOP" or "Faux News" (or "Dem" or "CNN" for that matter) in order to suss out what went wrong.

Online El Barto

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Re: Flint, Michigan....the atrocity
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2016, 06:36:27 PM »
How is this a societal failure? Society meaning the structure and management of those in office during this?

Meaning, not a failure attributable to "politics" or any one person.  This is a people failure.  There were PEOPLE - of more than one color, of more than one political persuasion - who could have prevented, stopped, or mitigated this disaster and they didn't.  There is no benefit to using words like "GOP" or "Faux News" (or "Dem" or "CNN" for that matter) in order to suss out what went wrong.
Things like this are one of the reasons I have such an interest in air crashes and other large scale mishaps. Often it comes down to a bunch of people making various mistakes or oversights and either not realizing it or being compelled to disregard it for a variety of reasons. And it always seems to be the case that they each have different cognitive blind spots. A few will be oblivious. A few will notice but yield to the collective reasoning. Some will feel that it's not their place to speak up. Some will pipe up, but fail to make their case. One guy will beg and plead and holler only to be dismissed as being crazy or exaggerating. People will misunderstand the problem and take the wrong approach to remedying it. Some will feel helpless and go straight into CYA mode. It goes on an on, and often times the problem gets compounded as a result. In this case there's certainly going to be an element of greed, but I suspect there are going to be a helluva lot of people who weren't worried about the money but failed to remedy the situation due to various weaknesses or blind spots, some of which will be more understandable than others.

A fantastic example of this dynamic is the B52 crash at Fairchild AFB. Everybody knows that Col. Holland is an accident waiting to happen, but the right pieces never come together to ground him, leading to unfortunate consequences. If it can happen in the military it can damn sure happen in governmental agencies, and this is a pretty good example of how. When the dust settles I suspect that what happened in Michigan is going to look an awful lot like what happened in the Air Force in 1994 (or half a dozen other similar disasters I could think of).

http://sbfpd.org/uploads/3/0/9/6/3096011/darker_shades_of_blue.pdf
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Flint, Michigan....the atrocity
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2016, 06:49:37 PM »
I've been following it, but I guess I really have no interest in talking about it much.  I'm from Michigan, born in Detroit, grew up in Lansing.  It's just painful and sad seeing what's going on on the news, but damn, Michigan has been slowing sinking into the quagmire for years now, and I'm glad I got out when I did (over 20 years ago).

Offline DragonAttack

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Re: Flint, Michigan....the atrocity
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2016, 07:22:11 PM »
My apologies for my rant being too much of a rant, and 'over the edge'.  I am sorry for that.

I have come across this from a left slanted site
http://www.newshounds.us/fox_blames_the_victims_and_obama_administration_for_flint_water_crisis_012116

The use of the 'emergency managers' in the first place is just so....wrong.  And, how odd that Snyder turns down an 'invite' in DC.  No, sir, there should be hearings that you are demanded to speak to, and you should be charged, removed from office, etc etc....

Offline Stadler

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Re: Flint, Michigan....the atrocity
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2016, 07:54:23 AM »
My apologies for my rant being too much of a rant, and 'over the edge'.  I am sorry for that.

I have come across this from a left slanted site
http://www.newshounds.us/fox_blames_the_victims_and_obama_administration_for_flint_water_crisis_012116

The use of the 'emergency managers' in the first place is just so....wrong.  And, how odd that Snyder turns down an 'invite' in DC.  No, sir, there should be hearings that you are demanded to speak to, and you should be charged, removed from office, etc etc....

Bra, I don't want to start an argument with you, but if you read the actual transcripts, it doesn't say ANYTHING like what "Ellen" at the "Newshounds" says it does.  She - and her website ("We watch Fox so you don't have to!") - has an axe to grind against Fox, and is out to find it, and you're buying into the propaganda.   That statement isn't letting Snyder off the hook, it's saying that there are more people culpable than him.  That aide is his responsibility, and they called him out for outright lying.   

The next statement isn't putting blame on the people, it's saying the people have been fed a line of horseshit by their politicians OF BOTH PARTIES.   Perino - accused by "Ellen" of "blaming Obama" - did nothing of the sort; they said there was enough blame to go around, and in fact, CLEARLY was saying that the Feds should not fuck around and should declare this a disaster.

And the last, well, it doesn't explicitly call for "Snyder's lynching" like it seems you want, but if you know how the environmental regulatory scheme works in the United States - basically, the states have their agencies, but they work under the auspices and at the mercy of the Federal EPA - those last comments are not partisan blaming of Obama and absolution of Snyder, but rather reflective of how the process ACTUALLY works and is factually accurate.

Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Flint, Michigan....the atrocity
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2016, 06:07:49 PM »
Taking a different approach than "where do I point my finger" (hint, those granted authority related to this regardless of party).

I've never used these because I know professionals that do this, but I have thought about it when cheap is the key.

Pro Lab Home Testing Kits
They have a lead in water and total water quality test kit as well as other more common tests.

Odds are very high that you can go to your water company's website and find some type of annual water test results that are usually quite exhaustive.
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