The Astonishing Recurring Motifs

[Gh101]

A thread for all the musical similarities and small reprises in songs, here is what I noticed from Dystopian Overture and a couple of other songs to begin with:

Dystopian Overture - 0:21 -0:43 is very similar to Lord Nafaryus and the Nafaryus sections in A New Beginning.

Dystopian Overture: 0:44 - 1:00 is the second half of the X Aspect.

Dystopian Overture 1:13 - 1:45 uses the same arpeggios as Heaven Cove.

Dystopian Overture 2:26 -2:50 - main theme from Act of Faythe

Dystopian Overture 2:55 - 3:24 - same melody as Brother, Can You Hear Me?

Dystopian Overture 3:24 - 3:40 - Faythe sections in A New Beginning.

A Saviour in the Square introduction is the same chord sequence as Our New World.

When Your Time Has Come chorus is the Gabriel counter-melody in The Path That Divides

[MirrorMask]

Daryus has a mini-theme; the exchange with Arhys ("How dare you step inside my home?! / His life is in my hands! / You monster, leave my son alone! / You do know who I am") has a melody that occours also in A Life Left Behind, when he's instructed by Arabelle to follow Faythe.

[Evermind]

Daryus has a mini-theme; the exchange with Arhys ("How dare you step inside my home?! / His life is in my hands! / You monster, leave my son alone! / You do know who I am") has a melody that occours also in A Life Left Behind, when he's instructed by Arabelle to follow Faythe.

While this is true, I tend to think about Daryus theme as of the vocal melody on "Give up the Chosen One / And you will guarantee your son" and "Wealth and prosperity / Beyond what you have ever seen" on A Tempting Offer that reoccures later on The Path that Divides with "You dare defy your prince? / Well you just threw your life away" and "Two hungry warriors clash in the shadows of the night".

[fischermasamune]

The bagpipes section in The X Aspect corresponds to the main theme of Brother, Can You Hear Me.

[PROGdrummer]

2:03  in The Walking Shadow = Faythe's theme.
Clever foreshadowing for who's walking around the corner.

[ariich]

Dystopian Overture: 0:44 - 1:00 is the second half of the X Aspect.

And also the final section of A Better Life. It's basically Evangeline's theme.

[rab7]

Dystopian Overture: 0:44 - 1:00 is the second half of the X Aspect.

And also the final section of A Better Life. It's basically Evangeline's theme.

Can you point out the time stamp for this in A Better Life?

[RoeDent]

I was hoping a thread like this would show up. I love analyzing the themes and where they recur!

2285 Entr'acte has a few, looking both back and forward.

0:42 = B eginning of Lord Nafaryus
0:58 = Three Days (Brace yourself...)
1:14 = The Road to Revolution

[rab7]

I was hoping a thread like this would show up. I love analyzing the themes and where they recur!

2285 Entr'acte has a few, looking both back and forward.

0:42 = B eginning of Lord Nafaryus
0:58 = Three Days (Brace yourself...)
1:14 = The Road to Revolution

The entire Entr'acte is a mishmash of aCT 1 themes. Before Naf theme kicks in,  we have Faythe theme followed by The Answer. Near the end we have Chosen followed by How Dare You Step Inside My Home

[RoeDent]

Anyone else notice the similarities between Faythe's and Nafaryus' music? N's sounds more evil, of course, but the motifs share connections.

I also think the A major section at the end of Dystopian Overture foreshadows the very end of the album. (Eternally...In harmony...)

[ariich]

Dystopian Overture: 0:44 - 1:00 is the second half of the X Aspect.

And also the final section of A Better Life. It's basically Evangeline's theme.

Can you point out the time stamp for this in A Better Life?

You're right, the melody is different, only the lyrics and structural form (as it were) are similar.

[rab7]

I also think the A major section at the end of Dystopian Overture foreshadows the very end of the album. (Eternally...In harmony...)

Definitely. The same way 6doit Overture ends with Journey to find the answers inside our elusive mind

[jayvee3]

The Answer, Begin Again and the opening of When your time has come all share the same melody (this also appears in the instrumentals too obviously). 

[CDrice]

There's this theme that seems to be linked to Daryus that appears a few times.

Dystopian Ouverture-3:46 to 3:58
A Tempting Offer-0:00 to 1:18 / 3:19 to 3:32
The Path That Divides-4:43 to the end

It might appear at other places, but those were the ones I was able to identify.

[RoeDent]

The bagpipes section in The X Aspect corresponds to the main theme of Brother, Can You Hear Me.

This also has an interesting ending. A Picardy third is where a section (or even a full piece) is entirely in a minor key, but the last chord is the parallel major key. For example, nearly all of Pink Floyd's Shine On You Crazy Diamond is in G minor, including the closing funeral march, but the final held chord is actually G major.

This bagpipe solo does the opposite. It's mostly in D major (with a D drone in the bass, as is standard with bagpipes), but the choir comes in on the last bagpipe note with a D minor chord.

[V_R11]

I didn't check which ones of these have already been mentioned, these are my own notes I've gathered while listening to this album
Dystopian Overture 0:44 --> The X Aspect
Dystopian Overture 2:57 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
Dystopian Overture 3:25 --> A New Beginning
Dystopian Overture 4:00 --> Astonishing
Act of Faythe 3:57 --> A Savior in the Square
Brother, Can You Hear Me? 3:05 --> The Road to Revolution
Ravenskill 4:12 --> When Your Time Has Come
The X Aspect 3:29 -->  Brother, Can You Hear Me?
2285 Entr’acte 0:43 --> Lord Nafaryus
2285 Entr’acte 0:58 -->  Three Days
2285 Entr’acte 1:15 -->  The Road to Revolution
Losing Faythe 0:19 --> Chosen
Astonishing 1:23-->, 4:31 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
Astonishing 2:13 --> The Answer
Astonishing 3:32 --> The Road to Revolution

Main Theme:
Dystopian Overture 2:28 -->
Lord Nafaryus 2:23 -->
A Savior in the Square 3:43 -->
Act of Faythe 1:06 -->
The Road to Revolution 1:49 -->
Astonishing 2:44 -->

[TheGreatPretender]

The "Brother Can You Hear Me" theme makes its appearance quite frequently throughout the album, and is probably my favorite. Once you hear it in Bagpipe solo form, it's just... Simply the best.

[RoeDent]

That's a thought. Is there a single "main theme" per se? Because to me, the BCYHM theme and Faythe's theme are both as prominent in the work as each other.

[MirrorMask]

Anyone else notice the similarities between Faythe's and Nafaryus' music? N's sounds more evil, of course, but the motifs share connections.

Faythe's theme appears in fact for the first time in Lord Nafaryus, when he describes his family. (Well, aside from the Overture)

[V_R11]

That's a thought. Is there a single "main theme" per se? Because to me, the BCYHM theme and Faythe's theme are both as prominent in the work as each other.

Well, I just called it main theme because even though BCHYM theme appears often it's also its own song

[MirrorMask]

One thing I just realized: while being nothing alike, A Better Life and Lord Nafaryus have the same structure, in this sense:

- They both introduce two of the main characters
- They reflect their attitude and thoughts so that you get to "know them"
- They slow down while they talk about their dear ones (Evangeline for Arhys, his family for Nafaryus, with Faythe's theme appearing)

Don't know how much of this was intentional or not...

[ariich]

A Better Life doesn't introduce Arhys as such, as he first appears in TGOM, but I know what you mean in that it's the song where we get to know him.

[mikemangioy]

I especially like in A New Beginning the badass Nafaryus reprise, and the equally badass Gift Of Music reprise at the start of the instrumental section.

But my favorite reprise has to be either bagpipes BCYHM or the "lost in this moment" part of Ravenskill. That or the A Savior In The Square intro at the end of Our New World.

[rab7]

I especially like in A New Beginning the badass Nafaryus reprise, and the equally badass Gift Of Music reprise at the start of the instrumental

What part of TGOM is reprised? I've never noticed

[Darkstarshades]

No Motifs were used, just Kronos.

[7deg_inner_happiness]

The bagpipes section in The X Aspect corresponds to the main theme of Brother, Can You Hear Me.

This also has an interesting ending. A Picardy third is where a section (or even a full piece) is entirely in a minor key, but the last chord is the parallel major key. For example, nearly all of Pink Floyd's Shine On You Crazy Diamond is in G minor, including the closing funeral march, but the final held chord is actually G major.

This bagpipe solo does the opposite. It's mostly in D major (with a D drone in the bass, as is standard with bagpipes), but the choir comes in on the last bagpipe note with a D minor chord.

Good call, RD!  It's a great ending, and I love that the choir starts the final chord accentuating the major, then gradually shifting and ending on the minor.   This album has so many beautiful little nuances.

[the keyboard wizard]

A great video made by ADN (the guy who had already done the same analysis for SFAM : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAqKbXqpLvo ) which is an analysis of Dystopian Overture's developed themes :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eFoDUAMD4mQ

[Moor]

A great video made by ADN (the guy who had already done the same analysis for SFAM : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAqKbXqpLvo ) which is an analysis of Dystopian Overture's developed themes :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eFoDUAMD4mQ

Great Vid.. well done 

[mikemangioy]

I especially like in A New Beginning the badass Nafaryus reprise, and the equally badass Gift Of Music reprise at the start of the instrumental

What part of TGOM is reprised? I've never noticed

It's very reminiscent of the instrumental section.

[RoeDent]

Wonderful video, that. I thought the section in DO where the music rapidly shifts between instruments was the only unique passage in that overture, but it recurs during the sword fight in The Path That Divides. Which means the opening bars is the only unique passage in DO.

[erwinrafael]

One thing I just realized: while being nothing alike, A Better Life and Lord Nafaryus have the same structure, in this sense:

- They both introduce two of the main characters
- They reflect their attitude and thoughts so that you get to "know them"
- They slow down while they talk about their dear ones (Evangeline for Arhys, his family for Nafaryus, with Faythe's theme appearing)

Don't know how much of this was intentional or not...

Noticed that too even in Act of Faythe, with the music player as the thing Faythe holds dear. And, surprisingly, also with Daryus in A Tempting Offer, with Nafaryus' approval the thing Daryus holds dear.

[Luoto]

Brother, Can You Hear Me @ 3:43 --> Three Days

Didn't see it mentioned yet, and it's indeed very brief. Then there's this one:

Astonishing @ 4:10 --> My Last Farewell

[SebastianPratesi]

Which means the opening bars is the only unique passage in DO.

Well, the way I hear it, the chord progression behind those opening bars (Bm - C# - Em - F#) is repeated in two places in "A new beggining":

• Around 2:00, when Nafaryus sings "Why would I ever concede..." - it's the same chord progression, but in Em (that would be Em - F# - Am - B). You can also hear the organ, as in the Overture
• From 5:15 on - that is, during the solo. The progression is in Gm, although it's not exactly the same: you get Gm - Ab - D - Fm and then Gm - A - Cm - D, repeating all over again until the end

But yeah, the melody at the opening bars of the Overture, I do too think it's unique to that track. Maybe someone has spotted it elsewhere?

RoeDent, sorry if I came across as a smart-ass, I hope I didn't. I just want to share what I found. I also ran through the album to spot the recurring motifs, so later I'll post what I have (I'll try not to repeat what's already posted).

Also, I just joined, so hi everyone! I'll introduce myself shortly.

[RoeDent]

Which means the opening bars is the only unique passage in DO.

Well, the way I hear it, the chord progression behind those opening bars (Bm - C# - Em - F#) is repeated in two places in "A new beggining":

• Around 2:00, when Nafaryus sings "Why would I ever concede..." - it's the same chord progression, but in Em (that would be Em - F# - Am - B). You can also hear the organ, as in the Overture
• From 5:15 on - that is, during the solo. The progression is in Gm, although it's not exactly the same: you get Gm - Ab - D - Fm and then Gm - A - Cm - D, repeating all over again until the end

But yeah, the melody at the opening bars of the Overture, I do too think it's unique to that track. Maybe someone has spotted it elsewhere?

RoeDent, sorry if I came across as a smart-ass, I hope I didn't. I just want to share what I found. I also ran through the album to spot the recurring motifs, so later I'll post what I have (I'll try not to repeat what's already posted).

Also, I just joined, so hi everyone! I'll introduce myself shortly.

That's a brilliant connection! I never noticed it before, but you're right! And welcome to DTF! 

Another connection, both musical and lyrical: The Answer ("They are finding faith in me...") -> Begin Again ("Then I found my faith in him...")

[cramx3]

Nothing to add, just following.