Poll

Which disc/act do you prefer?

Act I
151 (57.9%)
Act II
16 (6.1%)
I like both acts about the same
94 (36%)

Total Members Voted: 261

Author Topic: The Astonishing Poll (Come on, you all knew this was coming...) [Act 1 vs Act 2]  (Read 8084 times)

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Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: The Astonishing Poll (Come on, you all knew this was coming...)
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2016, 08:06:44 PM »
Funny how Act I is the favorite when people were worried beforehand that it was full of ballads lols
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Astonishing Poll (Come on, you all knew this was coming...)
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2016, 08:08:00 PM »
Eh, the term ballad is both overused and misconstrued nowadays anyway.

"OMG, this song has a slow part; it must be a ballad!!!!!" :lol :lol :lol

Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: The Astonishing Poll (Come on, you all knew this was coming...)
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2016, 08:12:05 PM »
Yeah, I hate how the word is used (and mainly in the metal community):

Ballad: a slow-tempo song with some electric guitar power chords throughout and kinda gay lyrics.

In my first listen through the album I did notice that there were several songs in the mellow piano/acoustic guitar format, but as I've grown closer to the music I found out I was very mistaken. I think the heavy/soft balance of The Astonishing is great, and makes for a very dynamic listen (you don't have to be on a certain mood to enjoy the music, unlike many of DT's albums IMO).
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Offline ariich

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Re: The Astonishing Poll (Come on, you all knew this was coming...)
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2016, 12:02:41 AM »
Eh, the term ballad is both overused and misconstrued nowadays anyway.

"OMG, this song has a slow part; it must be a ballad!!!!!" :lol :lol :lol
It's even worse than that. "This song starts with piano - ballad!". Even if the whole rest of the song is quite heavy.

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Offline ?

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Re: The Astonishing Poll (Come on, you all knew this was coming...)
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2016, 09:09:02 AM »
Voted Act I. More memorable moments.

Offline James Sucellus

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Re: The Astonishing Poll (Come on, you all knew this was coming...)
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2016, 09:24:33 AM »
Act 1. It's amusing to me that Act 1 is basically just people standing around talking and yet the music is more exciting than the tracks that depict people killing each other, being revived or making somebody's ears burst. Every track is really memorable, and it introduces practically all of the major motifs, whereas Act 2 has some unmemorable tracks like My Last Farewell and Whispers on the Wind which aren't up to the first act's standard.


I also think the tracks in Act 1 lead in to each other much better. I LOVE the track Astonishing, but it begins abruptly and needed better set up from the previous track.

Offline obelix5150

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Re: The Astonishing Poll (Come on, you all knew this was coming...)
« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2016, 09:40:42 AM »
I voted for both equally.. but I'm surprised that Act II has fared so poorly in the poll.. The Path That Divides, Walking Shadow and Last Farewell are three of my absolute favorite songs on the albums, and Our New World is amazing as well. Big fan of every song on that disc actually, no point in going through and listing them all :P

Offline ariich

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Re: The Astonishing Poll (Come on, you all knew this was coming...)
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2016, 10:08:44 AM »
unmemorable tracks like My Last Farewell and Whispers on the Wind
no

just


no

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Offline bosk1

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Re: The Astonishing Poll (Come on, you all knew this was coming...)
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2016, 09:44:12 AM »
I voted Act I.  I like Act II considerably, but not nearly as much as Act I.  Relevant explanation from another thread:

[The Path That Divides is a] Really strong song.  Definitely one of the highlights of Act II. 

I also agree somewhat with Kev that Act II feels like it meanders a bit.  And while there is plenty of original music, and the reprises are done very well and very creatively with nice twists and turns put on them, it does start to feel a bit like a re-hash of Act I from a musical perspective.  That said, I do really like Act II, in case that wasn't clear.  But although the album is already long enough, one thing I personally feel would have helped make Act II and the entire story even stronger and take it over the top, would be the inclusion of an additional song near the beginning.  If I had been so privileged as to have the band ask for my creative input ( :lol as if that would happen!), here is what I would have suggested:  Create a song with almost entirely new riffs and melodies (i.e., no reprises or different versions of what we have already heard) that deals with the impending revolution from the two opposite but parallel perspectives:  From the Ravenskill perspective, the militia are gearing up for war and conflict.  They are hopeful, but afraid, and are preparing for devastating losses and bloodshed.  Despite the inevitable loss of life, they see war as their only option, especially now that Naf' has given his 3-day ultimatum.  On the GNEA side, despite that Naf' has agreed to meet at Heaven's Cove, he orders only a temporarily power-down of the NOMACS to appease Faythe, while secretly also issuing an order that the NOMACS will subsequently ramp up their activity and oppression, and the GNEA army will launch a series of pre-emptive strikes against the rebellion to stamp it out before it starts.  Naf' is conflicted because part of him hopes that his meeting with Gabriel will go as Faythe hopes and will bring peace.  But he is simultaneously making preparations for what he believes the more likely scenario--i.e., the meeting failing and ending in conflict that could be the initial spark of rebellion.

From a story-telling perspective, the above would up the ante a bit in terms of the tension of the story and the rebellion itself being more real.  It would also help remind the listener that, although the main thrust of the story focuses on the interpersonal relationships of the main characters and how those relationships end up shaping history, the conflict is much bigger in scale and scope.  From a musical perspective, having one more song that uses original motifs instead of reprising existing ones would help Act II feel stronger as its own entity.  All in my humble opinion, of course.

There are basically four factors that went into the above:  (1) Act II is shorter.  This is not a problem in and of itself, but it just does make the album feel a imbalanced.  Adding one song to Act II would help a bit.  (2) Again, not that there is a lack of original material in Act II, but it can start to feel like a musical re-hash.  Some new riffs and melodies in an added track would help with that.  (3) As others have noted, there really is a lack of exposition relating to the NOMACS.  They really are "just there" and do not really feel menacing because we know so little about them.  Similarly, but to a lesser degree, there is a lack of exposition on the troops and the threat of impending war in general.  There are hints.  Brother Can You Hear Me, and a few spots in other tracks touch on it.  But a bit more depth would, IMO, help the story without taking away from the focus on the main characters and their relationships.  (4) It would really up the emotional ante and add more much-needed tension to Act II. 

EDIT:  And I think something like that would fit well right after Moment of Betrayal.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 10:43:59 AM by bosk1 »
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Offline KevShmev

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After weeks of listening, Act I is better than a considerable margin.  Despite being 30 minutes longer, it manages to have no weak spots musically, which cannot be said for Act II, which runs out of steam for a while after The Path That Divides.  If I had to do a top 10 from this record, only two or three songs from Act II would make it, and the few songs I do not care for that much are all in Act II.

Offline bosk1

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Just out of curiosity, Kev, if you were comparing the two acts as two bodies of work, would you feel that Act 2 would be significantly strengthened by something like what I suggested above?
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I initially voted about the same, but now I think Act II is better.
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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If someone said, "TOX, think about The Astonishing and its awesomeness!", I'd probably mostly think about Act I, so I'm giving it the edge, but don't get me wrong, Act II is great. Everything up through TPTD is killer, and then MLF onward is sweet too. I also think I enjoy the closing track more than most.
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Offline DragonAttack

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[noticed this thread was locked earlier for some reason]

A big problem with Act II is that it is just too mellow after an 80 minute first act.  I know there is an ‘abridged’ TA section thread for cutting it all down to one disc.  Forgetting story lines and themes, let’s say we were to equal out the time and help the flow a bit:  end Act I with ‘X Aspect’ followed by ‘Digital Discord’; start ‘Act of Faythe’ at 1:05 and ‘Chosen’ at 0:29 (or remove one or both completely).

Running time is now 55-65 minutes.

 ‘A New Beginning’ and ‘Road To Revolution’ now start off Act II (2285 optional); start ‘Cove’ at 0:38, ‘Path’ at 0:40, ‘Farewell’ at 0:58.  ‘Machine Chatter’, ‘Begin Again’ and ‘Losing Faythe’ removed.

Running time is now approximately 45-50 minutes, and the flow moves along at a quicker pace.  What my version will be after I see them in concert.

The flow of Act II is just so slow.  I enjoy mellow mixed in, but there are way too many simply quiet and 'nothing' moments on it.  Extra spice would have helped.
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Offline krands85

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Re: The Astonishing Poll (Come on, you all knew this was coming...)
« Reply #49 on: February 24, 2016, 02:47:44 PM »
Act One by quite a way so far. I feel that the songs feel a bit more full and work on their own there. I also think the tracks from Hymn of a Thousand Voices onwards were a bit underwhelming in regards to how grandiose I expected the conclusion to be.
That's sort of how I feel really. In fact, everything after My Last Farewell is a bit underwhelming to me - most of the music just feels a bit bland. Maybe that's the wrong word, but the last few tracks just seem to lack sections that grab me. Despite that though, I really enjoyed Hymn, Our New World and Astonishing when I saw them live in London last week. I found they worked a bit better in that context, with a bit of crowd interaction etc.
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Offline Enigmachine

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Re: The Astonishing Poll (Come on, you all knew this was coming...)
« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2016, 03:10:42 PM »
Act One by quite a way so far. I feel that the songs feel a bit more full and work on their own there. I also think the tracks from Hymn of a Thousand Voices onwards were a bit underwhelming in regards to how grandiose I expected the conclusion to be.
That's sort of how I feel really. In fact, everything after My Last Farewell is a bit underwhelming to me - most of the music just feels a bit bland. Maybe that's the wrong word, but the last few tracks just seem to lack sections that grab me. Despite that though, I really enjoyed Hymn, Our New World and Astonishing when I saw them live in London last week. I found they worked a bit better in that context, with a bit of crowd interaction etc.

Well, my opinion has changed quite a bit since then.  :lol I adore both acts equally now (prefer Act I purely due to length).

Offline krands85

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Act One by quite a way so far. I feel that the songs feel a bit more full and work on their own there. I also think the tracks from Hymn of a Thousand Voices onwards were a bit underwhelming in regards to how grandiose I expected the conclusion to be.
That's sort of how I feel really. In fact, everything after My Last Farewell is a bit underwhelming to me - most of the music just feels a bit bland. Maybe that's the wrong word, but the last few tracks just seem to lack sections that grab me. Despite that though, I really enjoyed Hymn, Our New World and Astonishing when I saw them live in London last week. I found they worked a bit better in that context, with a bit of crowd interaction etc.

Well, my opinion has changed quite a bit since then.  :lol I adore both acts equally now (prefer Act I purely due to length).
Ah, didn't notice the date of the post  :lol Well, hopefully my thoughts will eventually align with yours again  :D
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Offline KevShmev

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Just out of curiosity, Kev, if you were comparing the two acts as two bodies of work, would you feel that Act 2 would be significantly strengthened by something like what I suggested above?

Hard for me to say since I am still not paying any attention to the story, but had the middle of Act II been a lot stronger musically, this might have given 6DOIT a run for its money as my 4th favorite DT record.

Offline Disciple_Kickstand

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Voted for both of them.  Act I was more immediate likable for me, Act II is a grower. O ve I got into it I really started enjoying kg as well.

Offline CharlesPL

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3rd option, but probably i prefer 2nd act :P

Offline SchecterShredder

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Re: The Astonishing Poll (Come on, you all knew this was coming...)
« Reply #55 on: April 15, 2016, 02:39:23 PM »
It's an easy win for Act 1. Just going by the most notable and loved tracks, we have:

Act 1

The Gift of Music
A Better Life
Lord Nafaryus
A Savior in the Square
Three Days
A Life Left Behind
Ravenskill
A New Beginning

x

Act 2

Moment of Betrayal
Our New World

It's not even fair, it's like Brazil x Germany  :lol

Pretty much spot on. Moment of Betrayal is the only redeeming part of Act 2 for me.

Offline Darkstarshades

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There's a very large amount of hatred against TA on DT's FB page, lol.

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Offline DreamTheaterMM

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I see you all have very good arguments here. Everyone is right. Act one is better than two. Act two is better than one...it's all opinion - there is no best!

But, I prefer the second moreso than the first, as it's heavier in sections, and to me, my favorite song is actually the last song on the album (astonishing) Just like last album. Point is -- you really cannot go wrong with this album! It's all preference :)  :metal :yarr

Offline KevShmev

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There's a very large amount of hatred against TA on DT's FB page, lol.

Social media brings out the worst in people.  I shudder to think of what their FB would have been like when Train of Thought was released, had it been around then.  It took major abuse at dt.net (including from me), unlike TA, which has gotten pretty positive feedback for the most part here (which is basically the "new" dt.net).

Offline Outcrier

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To be fair, every new album gets positive feedback here  :lol
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