*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[PMA]

Does anyone know for sure what songs from TA were left out of the recent tour to make room for the encore tunes?

[Adami]

Does anyone know for sure what songs from TA were left out of the recent tour to make room for the encore tunes?

The X Aspect
The Road to Revolution
Heaven's Cove
Begin Again
Whisper's in the Wind

At least that's what Setlist.fm says was cut from the show on Nov. 20th.

[bosk1]

That is correct.

[Adami]

That is correct.

I looked up the setlist.fm one and then looked up the album set list and did a detailed item analysis.

Can't I at least get a gold star too?

[bosk1]

Two.  Remind me if we ever meet.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Does anyone know for sure what songs from TA were left out of the recent tour to make room for the encore tunes?

The X Aspect
The Road to Revolution
Heaven's Cove
Begin Again
Whisper's in the Wind

At least that's what Setlist.fm says was cut from the show on Nov. 20th.

Holy crap, some amazing songs were left out. I really think doing that was a bad idea.

[Dream Team]

Does anyone know for sure what songs from TA were left out of the recent tour to make room for the encore tunes?

The X Aspect
The Road to Revolution
Heaven's Cove
Begin Again
Whisper's in the Wind

At least that's what Setlist.fm says was cut from the show on Nov. 20th.

Holy crap, some amazing songs were left out. I really think doing that was a bad idea.

I guess DT can't win no matter what they do.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Does anyone know for sure what songs from TA were left out of the recent tour to make room for the encore tunes?

The X Aspect
The Road to Revolution
Heaven's Cove
Begin Again
Whisper's in the Wind

At least that's what Setlist.fm says was cut from the show on Nov. 20th.

Holy crap, some amazing songs were left out. I really think doing that was a bad idea.

I guess DT can't win no matter what they do.

everything is never enough lols

That's not like it. I loved the full The Astonishing show so much that I saw it for 2 consecutive nights (and boy, it wasn't cheap); and one of the reasons I took the decision of seeing it again was that I knew that they wouldn't repeat it ever again. It's the full Astonishing experience, from beginning to end, and that's what made this tour special. I think it was a bad idea taking some songs from the album and adding some ole classics because they will never do this tour again, and they have played PMU, AIA and TSCO literally hundreds and thousands of times (and will continue doing so). I don't know what prompted them to pull off those songs, if it was low attendance or if they just felt like playing some old tunes just for the sake of having a good time. Either way, it's fine and they can do whatever they want of course, but I don't agree with the move. I can't imagine them playing songs like The X Aspect or The Road to Revolution as standalone songs in future concerts because they don't work that well outside of their context IMO, so that kinda makes (made?) this tour the only chance to check them out live.

[ReaperKK]

I kind of go back and forth on the whole DT taking some songs out. I mean if they advertised the TA as the whole show then I feel like they should play the whole show. I'm not interested in seeing TA so I'll pass and catch them when they do a normal DT show. Playing a few songs as an encore isn't enough to make me want to see them when 95% of the show is TA.

[BelichickFan]

Does anyone know for sure what songs from TA were left out of the recent tour to make room for the encore tunes?

The X Aspect
The Road to Revolution
Heaven's Cove
Begin Again
Whisper's in the Wind

At least that's what Setlist.fm says was cut from the show on Nov. 20th.

Holy crap, some amazing songs were left out. I really think doing that was a bad idea.

I guess DT can't win no matter what they do.

The Astonishing is 2:10.  Add a little applause, etc, it's maybe 2:15 live.  They added about 25 minutes.  Add 5 more for the encore break and you're at 2:45 which is right around what the Along for the Ride tour was.  So they could have done it.  They just chose not to.  Which is their prerogative but it wasn't undoable to do the whole of The Astonishing and still add 30 minutes.

[SwedishGoose]

Does anyone know for sure what songs from TA were left out of the recent tour to make room for the encore tunes?

The X Aspect
The Road to Revolution
Heaven's Cove
Begin Again
Whisper's in the Wind

At least that's what Setlist.fm says was cut from the show on Nov. 20th.

Holy crap, some amazing songs were left out. I really think doing that was a bad idea.

I guess DT can't win no matter what they do.

The Astonishing is 2:10.  Add a little applause, etc, it's maybe 2:15 live.  They added about 25 minutes.  Add 5 more for the encore break and you're at 2:45 which is right around what the Along for the Ride tour was.  So they could have done it.  They just chose not to.  Which is their prerogative but it wasn't undoable to do the whole of The Astonishing and still add 30 minutes.

If it was me I would be pissed if they cut out songs from the Astonishing to make room for an encore.

But then I love TA and even having seen it twice I would rather see it again than the Images & Words and beyond tour.

It's such a special tour that will never return  again. Sure they will play a few songs but never the whole Astonishing show.

Images & Words and beyond will still be a great tour and the fact that we will be four friends going to this tour when we were 2 going to the Astonishing makes it even better. But still.... it will be songs I have heard many times live before and will hear again on the next tour.

[fadetoblackdude7]

I agree that removing those songs was a bad idea. Mainly because if I went to those particular shows expecting the album in its entirety, I'd be disappointed.

[MirrorMask]

They're all songs I skipped for my abridged version of The Astonishing, save for Road to Revolution, so if it had happened to me I would have probably agreed  but yeah, it's a small letdown for those anticipating the *whole* thing.

[rumborak]

My news feed has been suggesting this interview:

https://metalassault.com/Interviews/2016/11/10/a-cross-between-a-rock-concert-a-movie-and-a-musical-john-petrucci-discusses-dream-theaters-the-astonishing-live-experience/

which seems to be recent (they claim they spoke to JP on November 9th)

I imagined it first as a Dream Theater show, and then of course as a Dream Theater album, but beyond that, there’s a video game that is in development, there’s a novel that is in development. And one of the other things is that, yes, it would fit perfectly, I think, adapted as a musical, in the same way that The Who did that successfully with ‘Tommy’, and Green Day more recently with ‘American Idiot’ on broadway. So yeah, that would be amazing.

Is this just an old interview they're pushing as new, or is he still counting on the computer game and the novel? I assumed that at this point, at least the computer game is off the table.

[noxon]

The video game is still on as far as I know - I've played an almost complete version of it.

[Ben_Jamin]

The reason I don't see a DVD is because since day one of the tour, it was presented as a live experience. Think about about the quote "People just don't have the time" and it showed.

If you didn't bother to see the show, that's it. Which most people won't like. But I love it. It's like you people don't like the music don't expect a DVD.

[ytserush]

I'm glad I got to see the whole thing live.

I think they caved by changing the set like that. (And I say that having a very low regard for the lyrics.)

[fadetoblackdude7]

I'm also glad I got to see the whole thing live twice (Chicago/Milwaukee)

[gzarruk]

I really really like TA, it made it to my top 3 DT albums 

Having said that, I think they're taking it too far with the video game, a possible musical, the book and even the movie idea. I understand this is an enormous concept and they want to have it represented the best way they can, but this seems like they're pushing too much on these ideas, which, imo, won't end up being that good or successful as they might want them to be

[rumborak]

None of that stuff will happen, honestly. The first leg of the tour went fine, but the second one was a plain disaster. Who will honestly play a smartphone game a year after an album came out? Not many. Who would read a novel about a plot that already in lyrics form was cringeworthy in a lot of places? Not many.

DT aren't screenwriters, or authors. They are musicians. The earlier they return to what they are best at, the better. There is so much music to explore that they shut out (jazz, acoustic), it's an utter waste of time to go The Wall when they so clearly aren't good at it.

[Adami]

None of that stuff will happen, honestly. The first leg of the tour went fine, but the second one was a plain disaster. Who will honestly play a smartphone game a year after an album came out? Not many. Who would read a novel about a plot that already in lyrics form was cringeworthy in a lot of places? Not many.

DT aren't screenwriters, or authors. They are musicians. The earlier they return to what they are best at, the better.

While I completely agree with you, plenty of people here (at least) seem to really think the story was top notch and amazing. I also doubt JP will be writing any of it himself.

[rumborak]

DTF for many reasons isn't a good measuring stick. If you look at social media like Facebook or YouTube,  rating sites like Sputnik and RYM, and ticketing sites like Ticketmaster, there's one conclusion: TA wasn't well received, and DT is best advised moving on. To some degree I think they know that, I think the IAW tour is a direct acknowledgement of that.

[ReaperKK]

I'm really debating if I should go see TA live. They are in Charlotte the 28th and while I don't care for TA I'd like to support the guys. There are tickets a plenty.

[TAC]

  TA wasn't well received, and DT is best advised moving on. To some degree I think they know that, I think the IAW tour is a direct acknowledgement of that.

Are you saying that you believe this next run of European dates was originally intended to be a TA leg?

DTF for many reasons isn't a good measuring stick. If you look at social media like Facebook or YouTube,  rating sites like Sputnik and RYM, and ticketing sites like Ticketmaster, 

I think for DT, DTF is a relatively decent measuring stick. TA got plenty of criticisms around here. I think DT has always been fairly scrutinized around here.

[gzarruk]

I'm really debating if I should go see TA live. They are in Charlotte the 28th and while I don't care for TA I'd like to support the guys. There are tickets a plenty.

I think you should go just to support the band, also, they're playing 3 old songs for the encore. I would LOVE to have the opportunity to see the band live, no matter what they're playing, since I missed the only show they ever did here, back in 2010. I say go 

[TAC]

I missed this tour and am extremely bummed. I couldn't imagine not seeing them if I could.

[rumborak]

Are you saying that you believe this next run of European dates was originally intended to be a TA leg?

No, not really. I don't know what DT were planning, but I think after playing to 10 rows of fans in several venues, they said "We're hemorrhaging money, we need to bring back the fans. IAW 25th is coming up, let's tour on that."

I think for DT, DTF is a relatively decent measuring stick. TA got plenty of criticisms around here. I think DT has always been fairly scrutinized around here.

Nowhere near. Take RYM and Sputnik alone, TA is rated as below WDADU. Facebook is no different really, and as said, the last few concerts had abysmal attendance.

[TAC]

I have no idea what RYM and Sputnik are. At least I've heard of Facebook.

Not sure what Facebook has to do with it. Random comments by fans?

And WTF does RYM and Sputnik do?

Attendance, I'll give you is tangible.

[rumborak]

https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/dream_theater  2.6/5 (1,021 ratings)

https://www.sputnikmusic.com/bands/Dream-Theater/49/   2.5/5 (231 ratings)

I'm assuming we will now go into the "discredit each site separately, ignoring its aggregate power" part of the discussion.

It is great that on DTF love TA, but overall TA has been ill-received, and ill-attended. DT are well advised to just drop it and move on,

[TAC]

I'm assuming we will now go into the "discredit each site separately, ignoring its aggregate power" part of the discussion.

Dude, what? Really??

I wouldn't even know where to begin trying to discredit those sites. I've never heard of them. Looks like you can submit ratings.


The album has had a mediocre lukewarm reception here. I don't have any issues using DTF as a barometer.

[rumborak]

I wouldn't even know where to begin trying to discredit those sites. I've never heard of them. Looks like you can submit ratings.

It's the democracy thing. Everybody votes their own.

The album has had a mediocre lukewarm reception here. I don't have any issues using DTF as a barometer.

And the lukewarm reception here is way beyond the general reception. When DTF is lukwarm about an album, the general public is very dissatisfied.

[Prog Snob]

That's like using Wikipedia as a reputable source for a college thesis.

Sites that any dope with an Internet connection can capriciously submit ratings to aren't places with which I would concern myself. Besides, far fewer people voted for TA as compared to the other releases. The percentage of votes compared to the album sales for TA makes the vote on those sites irrelevant. That's considering more people who already don't like DT probably voted against them for their own amusement. 400 votes on Sputnik? That's like using only the state of Montana to judge a presidential candidate.

[rumborak]

As I said, we now entered the "diss every site separately, disregarding their aggregate power" state of the discussion. I mean, of course, each of those 1,500 votes are just one single guy's opinion! Even when they liked IAW and SFAM beforehand!

Sigh.

[gzarruk]

I might be wrong, but didn't TA did very well on the charts when it debuted? I mean Billboard and that kind of stuff

[Prog Snob]

As I said, we now entered the "diss every site separately, disregarding their aggregate power" state of the discussion. I mean, of course, each of those 1,500 votes are just one single guy's opinion! Even when they liked IAW and SFAM beforehand!

Sigh.

It's not a diss. It's an observation. The number of votes for TA is much smaller than the others. It's even more of an insignificant amount compared to the album sales. To me that makes the vote tally irrelevant. I sure as hell wouldn't base my decision on buying/not buying the album (or any album) using the 400 votes on Sputnik. I think the problem is that you expect everybody to put the same value in those numbers as you do, and if they don't, they're just dissing the site's "aggregate power".