*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[ResultsMayVary]

I was at the Cinct show last night. Great show. I really hope they have another US tour. That album took a while to grow on me. I'd love another chance to see it.

I was there as well. While the album worked out really well for me in my first few listens, hearing the whole thing live really gave me a new appreciation for it. To me, it sounds huge live and I love that. I'm hoping for another tour as well here in the States, because I would see it again without a doubt.

[KevShmev]

DT "performance" videos generally blow, but I am sure the Our New World one will be along those lines (in style and quality ).

[BlobVanDam]

It'll probably be the same as The Looking Glass with some minor animations included. It would be great if they could get a couple of actors to play Faythe and Gabriel in the video.

The song itself completely reminds me of Six Degrees (About to Crash & Reprise). It has a good upbeat feel to it.

That's why I love the song so much. Totally has an ATC vibe about it.

But I'd steer well away from anything involving Faythe/Gabriel in the video, and just keep it really simple.

[Mladen]

I wish they did something along the lines of On the backs of angels, a video that features the band on stage.

[BlobVanDam]

I'd forgotten that OTBOA even had them playing on stage. All I remember is JLB's face on the side of a building.

[Prog Snob]

It'll probably be the same as The Looking Glass with some minor animations included. It would be great if they could get a couple of actors to play Faythe and Gabriel in the video.

The song itself completely reminds me of Six Degrees (About to Crash & Reprise). It has a good upbeat feel to it.

That's why I love the song so much. Totally has an ATC vibe about it.

But I'd steer well away from anything involving Faythe/Gabriel in the video, and just keep it really simple.

I don't see them doing that. It would just be nice for them to have a conceptual video again. And I don't mean some hot chick dropping a looking glass on the floor. 

[BlobVanDam]

I thought the Looking Glass video was quite classy, aside from the overly literal interpretation of the song title the director did to come up with a girl holding a looking glass.

[Prog Snob]

I thought the Looking Glass video was quite classy, aside from the overly literal interpretation of the song title the director did to come up with a girl holding a looking glass.

   Exactly.

It wasn't too bad, though. Hell, I shouldn't complain because they actually made a video. Though a looking glass is actually a mirror, so he did improvise a little bit. 

[rumborak]

It's such an epic song, I love it.

In terms of video, I wish they did something fun for a change. For example, recreate classic music videos, like Slash standing on the cliff during the November Rain solo, but this time JP with a top hat. Stuff like that would be so awesome.

[Prog Snob]

It's such an epic song, I love it.

In terms of video, I wish they did something fun for a change. For example, recreate classic music videos, like Slash standing on the cliff during the November Rain solo, but this time JP with a top hat. Stuff like that would be so awesome.

Or Jordan with his wizard hat. 

[Kotowboy]

Seeing as The Astonishing is maybe Dream Theater's least technical album overall and focuses way more on the actual songs than the shredding etc...

I'd *love* to read an interview with Mangini about his playing on the album to see if he talks about playing for the music this time around..

...or whether he bangs on about playing 19/5 again 

[jakepriest]

I remember him making a huge post on FB where he talked about one snare roll in like three paragraphs. I really doubt playing for music is the case with him ever.  Music is just numbers to him.

[Enigmachine]

Seeing as The Astonishing is maybe Dream Theater's least technical album overall and focuses way more on the actual songs than the shredding etc...

I'd *love* to read an interview with Mangini about his playing on the album to see if he talks about playing for the music this time around..

...or whether he bangs on about playing 19/5 again 

I remember him making a huge post on FB where he talked about one snare roll in like three paragraphs. I really doubt playing for music is the case with him ever.  Music is just numbers to him.

Because knowledge and application of advanced music theory has never been used to complement the music. Never.

 

[jakepriest]

Well in Mangini's case it amounts to a whole lot of boring drumming imo. 

[erwinrafael]

I remember him making a huge post on FB where he talked about one snare roll in like three paragraphs. I really doubt playing for music is the case with him ever.  Music is just numbers to him.

He plays to the music all the time. The counts come afterwards.

His post about the snare roll is in The Astonishing where he is playing two snare rolls with different hands at the same time. How that part does not sound musical to you, as Mangini tries to simulate a marching band effect, I will not understand.

[Kotowboy]

Because on the actual song it sounds like a Bog Standard snare drum roll.

[Kotowboy]

Because knowledge and application of advanced music theory has never been used to complement the music. Never.

 

It's fine in a band like DT which is all about the technique. But playing to music should be from the heart first and foremost in my opinion.

I'm not saying Mangini doesn't do that but he almost exclusively talks about what he's doing numbers wise.

[Enigmachine]

I'm not saying Mangini doesn't do that but he almost exclusively talks about what he's doing numbers wise.

Well...

1. It's a more interesting way to explain things than "it just felt right".

2. It is possible, like erwin said, that MM plays from feel then breaks it down afterwards to see why it works.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I've always thought of that 'if you're extremely technical in your playing/thinking you can't be emotional with music' phrase as bullshit.

[Prog Snob]

I've always thought of that as 'if you're extremely technical in your playing/thinking you can't be emotional with music' as bullshit.

Agreed. The only people who speak nonsense like that are narrow-minded and most likely unable to do it themselves so they harness a naive notion that if they can't do it, nobody can.

[Dream Team]

I've always thought of that 'if you're extremely technical in your playing/thinking you can't be emotional with music' phrase as bullshit.

Exactly

[rumborak]

Assuming we're engaging in a general discussion about the matter, and not necessarily only talking about DT: I think the issue is often not that the technical player can't play with emotions at all, but rather he/she *prioritizes* the technical aspect over other considerations (such as whether it jives well with the rest of the music, creates a consistent whole). For example, I have known many a guitar player who was under the belief that a good, interesting guitar solo is created once one employs concepts such as modes (e.g. play in mixolydian) and sweeping etc.
It's a tempting mistake to make. Technicality can always be improved by applying yourself more, spending more time on the instrument. On the other hand, "flows well" and "integrates well into song" are concepts that are much harder to pin down and, frankly, require taste and experience.

[bosk1]

Assuming we're engaging in a general discussion about the matter, and not necessarily only talking about DT: I think the issue is often not that the technical player can't play with emotions at all, but rather he/she *prioritizes* the technical aspect over other considerations (such as whether it jives well with the rest of the music, creates a consistent whole). For example, I have known many a guitar player who was under the belief that a good, interesting guitar solo is created once one employs concepts such as modes (e.g. play in mixolydian) and sweeping etc.
It's a tempting mistake to make. Technicality can always be improved by applying yourself more, spending more time on the instrument. On the other hand, "flows well" and "integrates well into song" are concepts that are much harder to pin down and, frankly, require taste and experience.

I will just add that, it is something that is still so subjective that it is hard to pin down even if one is regarded as having a ton of "taste" and "experience."  As you rightly point it, it is very fuzzy.

[erwinrafael]

Assuming we're engaging in a general discussion about the matter, and not necessarily only talking about DT: I think the issue is often not that the technical player can't play with emotions at all, but rather he/she *prioritizes* the technical aspect over other considerations (such as whether it jives well with the rest of the music, creates a consistent whole). For example, I have known many a guitar player who was under the belief that a good, interesting guitar solo is created once one employs concepts such as modes (e.g. play in mixolydian) and sweeping etc.
It's a tempting mistake to make. Technicality can always be improved by applying yourself more, spending more time on the instrument. On the other hand, "flows well" and "integrates well into song" are concepts that are much harder to pin down and, frankly, require taste and experience.

I will just add that, it is something that is still so subjective that it is hard to pin down even if one is regarded as having a ton of "taste" and "experience."  As you rightly point it, it is very fuzzy.

In which case, I would say that MM is not prioritizing technicality over other aspects in his playing because his playing style is always about integrating with what the others are doing.

[Ben_Jamin]

Hahaha...actually their backing tracks messed up at the Denver show.

[Moor]

Is it me, or this review is really disturbing and weird?

https://www.portlandmercury.com/music/2016/05/04/18007976/a-commentary-on-dream-theaters-magnum-opus

[SystematicThought]

I gotta admit that I laughed at the line: (Talking about the scream in Last Farewell): "Sounds like he went out for the morning paper and stepped on a slug"

But yeah, that was kind of stupid.

[Crow]

"we hated the album, here's us hating the album for a while"
not really disturbing or weird, just kinda dumb and pointless, occasionally a bit funny

[mikeyd23]

I can't tell if that "review" was meant to be funny or serious, which makes it very uncomfortable to read, haha.

[goo-goo]

Hahaha...actually their backing tracks messed up at the Denver show.

What part? I was there and didn't notice it.

[SebastianPratesi]

The dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks site has been updated to include lyrics to all songs.

An interesting bit of trivia: in "The Walking Shadow", the lines 'Don't hold your breath, the night's still young...' are now credited to Daryus. I know most of us had already realised that the Arhys credit was likely a typo, so this confirms it, I guess.

[kirksnosehair]

I just spun this today for the first time in about 3 weeks.  I didn't want to burn it out so I put it down after about 3 or 4 spins when it first came out, but this is the first time circling back and I am definitely enjoying it.   

[dtvoices94]

Is it me, or this review is really disturbing and weird?

https://www.portlandmercury.com/music/2016/05/04/18007976/a-commentary-on-dream-theaters-magnum-opus

That may be the most pointless review ever written.  Ned needs to dial it back a little.  No one can be that much of an insufferable di** in real life. 
Nevermind, pretty sure Ned is.

[Enigmachine]

Is it me, or this review is really disturbing and weird?

https://www.portlandmercury.com/music/2016/05/04/18007976/a-commentary-on-dream-theaters-magnum-opus

That may be the most pointless review ever written.  Ned needs to dial it back a little.  No one can be that much of an insufferable di** in real life. 
Nevermind, pretty sure Ned is.

It seems like he (Ned) tried to use the review / commentary as a platform for comedy and they all come off sounding really annoying in the process. They make it kind of obvious that it was made for the purpose of ridiculing the album. It's hard to tell who it's actually written for though, maybe people who hate the album? Then again, the humour sucks so I'm still not sure.

[jakepriest]

I actually found the interview funny even though I love the album. You people need to take a