Author Topic: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*  (Read 59116 times)

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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2015, 05:47:11 AM »
I think Han Solo did a good job passing the torch to the new characters already. I don't think the other OT characters will intrude on the new cast members being the clear stars from here on. I'm glad they've been so well received too, because I think they did a great job. I want to see more Poe in the next one.

Luke will obviously be more featured in the next one, and probably the whole new trilogy to some extent, even if they give him the Obi Wan treatment at some point (although I think it would be best to avoid any more blatant parallels to the OT for the time being). They may need that role for a little while to help re-establish the Jedi and force concepts to the new characters.

Leia didn't have a huge part, so I could see them phasing her out at any time without any issue. They could use the death of Han as a motivator if they wanted her out that soon.

It would have been too obvious to ditch every OT character in the first movie, but I expect they'll do it gradually over the course of the trilogy.
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Offline phospheneSOI

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2015, 05:53:00 AM »
The characters in this are better than the original trilogy.

The humour is better than the original trilogy.

It's more emotionally satisfying than the original trilogy (admittedly that's because of groundwork set by those films)

It's my favourite Star Wars.


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Offline Skeever

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2015, 05:58:59 AM »
I thought it was somewhere between the prequels and the original trilogy. The new characters were all really good, but the plot was way too fast paced and coincidence driven, and several scenes were just plain awkward at best and poorly developed at worst. The conversation where Han and Leah discuss Kylo has got to be one of the weirdest, info-dumpy scenes in all 7 movies. Han and Leah together where just plain flat.

Also, it feels like they leaned heavily on A New Hope, and that isn't always a good thing. I guess from Abrams I should have expected a skin-deep lightning paced fan service heavy action flick, but deep down I was hoping for something a bit more substantial.

On the positive side, the new characters have a lot of potential and I think Luke's entry into the series is going to turn out really great. Something tells me VIII is the true "new" Star Wars and VII was a bridge to bring back old fans. VIII has potential to be a really great movie.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2015, 06:04:55 AM »
I agree.
I expect the next movie to be better now that they've dealt with a lot of the backstory and introduced the new characters, and brought back a lot of disillusioned fans. TFA's production was a little rushed for what it needed to do, but I think they got the basic elements of casting and tone right to allow the future movies to create something amazing from it. TFA was intentionally familiar, but now I think people are ready for something that deviates further from the OT.
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Offline kaos2900

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2015, 06:32:24 AM »
Agree with what most everyone has said. Loved it! Yes it was similar to ANH, but I don't a mind a bit. Just a few thoughts.

1. Is Luke Rey's father? When Kylo Ren was torturing her he mentioned the ocean with an island where Luke was. Was that a future vision or a vision from the past?
2. Is Kylo Ren's real name Ben? That's what I thought Han called out to them.
3. Who and where the hell did Snoke come from? Is he a Sith? I'm wonder if he is much smaller than he seemed in the hologram.
4. How did the gal get the Luke's saber? I'm very interested in the story she will tell later.
5. Did Captain Plasma survive? Honestly, her character was very underutilized and that was somewhat disappointing.
6. I could watch a 3 hour movie with just BB-8 and R2-D2!

Can't wait for Episode VIII! I'm sure it will have a much more original story.

Going to see it again at 11 this morning for my work holiday party.  :metal

Offline phospheneSOI

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2015, 06:36:03 AM »
I think Andy Serkis said that Snoke is 7' tall.

That makes me happy. Immense power is always more impressive in someone who isn't super huge.


Unless you're Darkseid.

When I first saw Snoke I thought it was The Watcher.

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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2015, 07:24:04 AM »
2. Is Kylo Ren's real name Ben? That's what I thought Han called out to them.

Solo called him 'Ben'.....it's safe to say that's his birth name.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2015, 07:31:03 AM »
Being the son of Leia Organa and Han Solo, it wouldn't make much sense for his real name to be Ren. Han definitely called him Ben, so I guess they named their son after Obi-Wan / Ben Kenobi.
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Offline kaos2900

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2015, 07:52:44 AM »
Oh, and my other theory solidifying in my mind that Rey is Luke's daughter is that R2 awoke when Rey discovered her powers. The connection between RD and that lineage is strong. It would also make sense that Luke would hide her away to protect as that was what was done with him and his sister.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2015, 08:02:13 AM »
Oh, and my other theory solidifying in my mind that Rey is Luke's daughter is that R2 awoke when Rey discovered her powers. The connection between RD and that lineage is strong. It would also make sense that Luke would hide her away to protect as that was what was done with him and his sister.

I think it 'makes sense' but seems a little 'easy' to me to explain it away like that. I wouldn't mind if she weren't his daughter.....shoot.....maybe she was a youngling in Luke's new Jedi order when Ren started destroying it and Luke just decided to save/hide her because he knew how strong she was?

When does Episode VIII come out, I'm ready now... :lol
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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2015, 08:14:51 AM »
Oh, and my other theory solidifying in my mind that Rey is Luke's daughter is that R2 awoke when Rey discovered her powers. The connection between RD and that lineage is strong. It would also make sense that Luke would hide her away to protect as that was what was done with him and his sister.

I think it 'makes sense' but seems a little 'easy' to me to explain it away like that. I wouldn't mind if she weren't his daughter.....shoot.....maybe she was a youngling in Luke's new Jedi order when Ren started destroying it and Luke just decided to save/hide her because he knew how strong she was?

When does Episode VIII come out, I'm ready now... :lol

May 2017. Not too long for a sequel really.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2015, 08:20:29 AM »
I was thinking - maybe Luke was keeping R2 in low power mode so he could see if Rey was ready to meet him ?

Then after she beat Kylo Ren - he knew she was ready and powered up R2 and revealed the map so they could meet ?

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2015, 08:22:10 AM »
Oh, and my other theory solidifying in my mind that Rey is Luke's daughter is that R2 awoke when Rey discovered her powers. The connection between RD and that lineage is strong. It would also make sense that Luke would hide her away to protect as that was what was done with him and his sister.

I think it 'makes sense' but seems a little 'easy' to me to explain it away like that. I wouldn't mind if she weren't his daughter.....shoot.....maybe she was a youngling in Luke's new Jedi order when Ren started destroying it and Luke just decided to save/hide her because he knew how strong she was?

When does Episode VIII come out, I'm ready now... :lol

May 2017. Not too long for a sequel really.

No, that's really not...not at all. wow.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2015, 08:23:25 AM »
I was thinking - maybe Luke was keeping R2 in low power mode so he could see if Rey was ready to meet him ?

Then after she beat Kylo Ren - he knew she was ready and powered up R2 and revealed the map so they could meet ?

Could be? That 'vision' she had seemingly had Luke reaching out to R2 to activate him...or show him where he was at?
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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #50 on: December 18, 2015, 08:52:07 AM »
and.....you'd think by now the 'Empire' or First Order....the "bad guys" could find a group of more intelligent engineers to design an all powerful planet weapon that didn't have a glaring security risk that if destroyed would blow up the whole thing.....like the two previous Death Stars :lol


Might be time to give up on that whole concept....scrap it.....and look for some other idea.
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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #51 on: December 18, 2015, 09:08:58 AM »
And this article already has me pumped for the next episode
https://www.eonline.com/news/725141/star-wars-episode-viii-everything-we-know-right-now
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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #52 on: December 18, 2015, 09:37:41 AM »
Guess we will have a year and a half of these types of articles now:

https://www.vox.com/2015/12/18/10513896/star-wars-the-force-awakens-rey-luke
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Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #53 on: December 18, 2015, 10:00:30 AM »
I watched this yesterday.

I liked it very much. I wouldn't go as far to say I loved it because I thought it was an Episode IV tribute (the new empire, the new Death Star, the old mentor being killed, etc.), but I understand why JJ did it. It's miles ahead Episodes I, II and III, and I would rank it even higher than Return of the Jedi if it happens to grow on me. I was afraid Kylo Ren might become an inferior Darth Vader wannabe, but I was super relieved when he took off his mask because he gained a lot of personality to his character.

It was mentioned Rey became an all-powerful force user out of the blue and I found that kind of weird, but it would make sense with the 'there has been an awakening' thing Snoke said; and it's to be noted that her becoming a badass lightsaber user and beating Kylo to the ground was really amazing. The Darth Plagueis/Snoke theory is very interesting, and although it think it's very unlikely (they might as well be of the same alien race but entirely different people), it would be a cool way of linking the prequels with the new trilogy. I like the idea of him being the Palpatine of the new trilogy, but I hope there's more to him than 'I'm a powerful Dark Side user and I happen to be the leader of the First Order' because that would make him very much like the Emperor.

I LOVED the lightsaber battle. The scenery was incredible (snow/night) and I was super glad they didn't overdo the pyrotechnics. All 3 of them (Finn, Kylo and Ren) had this amateurish feel to them that made it very real. They actually hurt their opponents, instead of just cutting hands or chopping bodies in half. It was raw, it was exciting and it was epic without being a highly athletic Episode I Darth Maul jumping bonanza. Also, I think it was an amazing ending because it left be craving for more. I was super expecting a glorious ceremony like in Episode IV at the end, but was glad we didn't get one. The whole 'search for Luke' plot was one of the best things from the movie, I think.

All in all, excellent work JJ. Maybe you played a little bit too safely, but this is one Star Wars film I will watch many times in the near future (unlike Episodes I and II lel).
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 10:07:25 AM by DarkLord_Lalinc »
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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #54 on: December 18, 2015, 10:38:13 AM »
I think Kylo Ren's development and the time he got made him a more interesting villain than Darth Vader was in IV. Before someone says I'm crazy, I think Vader really grew as a character over the 3 original films, but in the classic he shows up and you don't learn that much about him (until later), but Kylo Ren had some really interesting scenes and felt very much like the character Anakin should have been in the prequels, at least towards the end of him becoming Vader.

Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #55 on: December 18, 2015, 10:59:36 AM »
I think Kylo Ren's development and the time he got made him a more interesting villain than Darth Vader was in IV. Before someone says I'm crazy, I think Vader really grew as a character over the 3 original films, but in the classic he shows up and you don't learn that much about him (until later), but Kylo Ren had some really interesting scenes and felt very much like the character Anakin should have been in the prequels, at least towards the end of him becoming Vader.
True. As a matter of fact, as much as Darth Vader was loved in Episode IV for his imposing physique and badass force choking, he didn't get much development or screen time. Tarkin was the true evil guy in that film, and it was not until Episode V that Darth Vader became the ultimate badass in the Star Wars universe.
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Offline Mister Gold

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #56 on: December 18, 2015, 12:03:52 PM »
Honestly I prefer Kylo Ren over Darth Vader already. Don't get me wrong, I love the OG Sith Lord, but I was really fascinated with how the film handled Kylo. He's a complex villain that wants to be a black-and-white villain instead.
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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #57 on: December 18, 2015, 12:47:24 PM »
Oh, and my other theory solidifying in my mind that Rey is Luke's daughter is that R2 awoke when Rey discovered her powers. The connection between RD and that lineage is strong. It would also make sense that Luke would hide her away to protect as that was what was done with him and his sister.

I like this thought.  It does make sense as to why R2-D2 just "suddenly" decided to wake up.

Fantastic movie.  We've been waiting 30-odd years for a GOOD Star Wars movie (considering how abysmal the prequel trilogy as a whole was).  I can't wait to see it again.
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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #58 on: December 18, 2015, 01:53:20 PM »
Honestly I prefer Kylo Ren over Darth Vader already. Don't get me wrong, I love the OG Sith Lord, but I was really fascinated with how the film handled Kylo. He's a complex villain that wants to be a black-and-white villain instead.

Agreed. It was nice watching a villain that was being tempted by the light instead of the opposite.
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Offline BlackInk

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #59 on: December 18, 2015, 03:57:23 PM »
Saw it a second time tonight. This theater was uncomfortably hot, and my friend (who had worked a lot the entire week and kept saying how tired he was before I dragged him along) kept falling asleep. I had to push him a few times when he started snoring.

The movie was still awesome though.

Offline bl5150

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #60 on: December 18, 2015, 09:29:04 PM »
I thought it was somewhere between the prequels and the original trilogy. The new characters were all really good, but the plot was way too fast paced and coincidence driven, and several scenes were just plain awkward at best and poorly developed at worst. The conversation where Han and Leah discuss Kylo has got to be one of the weirdest, info-dumpy scenes in all 7 movies. Han and Leah together where just plain flat.

Also, it feels like they leaned heavily on A New Hope, and that isn't always a good thing. I guess from Abrams I should have expected a skin-deep lightning paced fan service heavy action flick, but deep down I was hoping for something a bit more substantial.

On the positive side, the new characters have a lot of potential and I think Luke's entry into the series is going to turn out really great. Something tells me VIII is the true "new" Star Wars and VII was a bridge to bring back old fans. VIII has potential to be a really great movie.

I pretty much agree - at no point did I feel surprised by anything and it basically felt like ANH reworked.

I really need to see it again as my son was in my ear the whole movie which was a huge distraction..... and he took us on a toilet break too. Overall I enjoyed it but rate it below all 3 of the originals.  It was just too predictable and too many nice coincidences.

A few other things that struck me as negative:

- Two characters/actors to me were missing the screen presence of the others (Poe - more so early on and General Hux). 

- Finn was far too impressive in the light saber battle

- some of the geographical CGI was a bit too fake for my liking.  They went big but I would rather keep it a bit less ambitious and more realistic.


Solo dying was entirely predictable but still got to me.......as he was always my favourite character as a kid.  My little boy got a bit upset for a minute .

It would be interesting to know the proper story behind the map. I hope there is a grand plan there from Luke where R2D2 was unknowingly reactivated by Rey with that in mind (even though The First Order had managed to get their hands on all but the missing piece anyway).

All in all I thought it was a very good re-introduction to the series (I basically ignored the prequels) but for mine it is just too derivative of ANH to be considered a classic.  Hopefully it sets us up for that next time around.
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Offline Tom Bombadil

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #61 on: December 18, 2015, 10:52:49 PM »
Came in with very low expectations and was pleasantly surprised by how good it was. Yeah there were obvious parallels to ANH, but I didn't think it made me enjoy the movie any less.

I also thought the little nostalgic moments where they threw stuff from the OT on we're really well done. It wasn't like the Hobbit where I was literally cringing in my seat, it was more like "hey look there's the droid Luke used to train with on the Falcon. That's cool." Much better job of that than the Hobbit.

Overall, I'd probably put this on par with Ep. VI. There wasn't anything as stupid as the Ewoks, but it was a little too safe to make it on par with IV or V. So much better than the prequels.

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #62 on: December 18, 2015, 11:24:31 PM »
I'm not going to repeatedly engage with this thread because I know my opinions are so far out of step with most people's and I don't really care to incessantly defend them. But just so there's a voice here saying this:

I'm a huge George Lucas purist. Love all six films. Love what Lucas built. Never wanted this. Never wanted any of this.

Revenge of the Sith is my favorite. Return of the Jedi is my second favorite. Those are an easy top two.


Did not much care for this on first viewing. Thought that there was pretty good stuff but some pretty bad stuff too. The power creep was really bad. I did not find it all credible that they found out about this super powerful weapon, planned an attack in the first five minutes after they learned of its existence, and it worked. Some of the lines made the film badly out of touch with Lucas's films, tonally. On balance, I would say that it was a good action film, but not near the level of the Original Sextet's genius. It was probably better as a standalone film than The Phantom Menace, probably equivalent to Attack of the Clones. Cannot step to anything III through VI. And I and II are far, far, far better when everything viewed in the broader context of the saga.

So pretty much what I should have expected, if I had any expectations at all, which I'm not sure I did.

I'll end up seeing it again soon, I'm sure. My genuine hope is to like this film and be able to appreciate the new series as a solid continuation, even if it's one that I don't really personally view as canon in the same way that I see the six as canon. But that may not happen, depending on how important the flaws are to me.
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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #63 on: December 19, 2015, 01:09:14 AM »
So I'm curious where you guys stand on it after having seen the film.. I say Rey is definitely Luke Skywalker's daughter.

Apart from the fact that she is really strong with the force, I think there were several parts of the film that really hinted strongly towards that. For example, her connection to the Luke/Anakin lightsaber. The fact that her parents left her, simultaneously as Luke vanished to go into hiding. I would even say the way Luke looked at her in the end. It was only briefly, but it didn't feel like "Who is this random girl handing me my lightsaber?", it felt almost like he recognized her.

My guess would be that after the Knights of Ren turned on Luke, he had to go on his mission, and maybe he did a mind swipe with the force to protect Rey and he left her on the safest planet in his eyes, a dump like Jakku, which in several parts of the movie is referenced like a really bad place you don't want to go to. It also makes sense why it wasn't Tatooine again. I guess we'll get more insight in Episode 8 if this is the case, but she has to be a Skywalker and Leia/Han never mentioned having a daughter, so I think we can cross that off the list, and that leaves Luke IMO. Sure, I know some people say that if Luke did indeed have a child, he broke the jedi code and so on. What if, Luke had a child, then after seeing the Knights of Ren turn on him so easily and going dark, he was afraid he would fall to the dark side as well, so the only thing he knew was to go into hiding at the first Jedi temple, maybe find a bigger purpose or just meditate. Maybe he planned on returning to his daughter but he didn't complete his mission yet.

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #64 on: December 19, 2015, 03:35:06 AM »
- Finn was far too impressive in the light saber battle

I thought this the first time as well, but have pretty much changed my mind after seeing it a second time. Kylo was injured, and even then the fight with Finn doesn't even look all that challenging to him. And it was over much more quickly than I remembered.

Not even gonna comment on 425's post.

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #65 on: December 19, 2015, 07:51:39 AM »
Zantera- I think the evidence you posted about Rey being Luke's daughter is solid. And, it'd stick with the underlying theme of the Star Wars series Anakin/ Luke, Leia/ now Ren and Rey.....all being the same lineage.

Part of me wants it 'not' to be the case because of how 'simple' that explanation is as to why the Force is so strong with her. It'd be neat if there were a different explanation but it'll be interesting to see how they explain and tell the story of her being Luke's daughter if that's indeed the case.

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #66 on: December 19, 2015, 08:59:33 AM »
She's also a really good pilot, like the entire lineage
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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #67 on: December 19, 2015, 09:54:37 AM »
I doubt Rey is Luke's daughter. Jedi are supposed to be unmarried and childless, right? I'd sooner think is Rey is Han and Leia's.
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Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #68 on: December 19, 2015, 10:03:30 AM »
There's this one little thing that has been bugging me quite a bit... wasn't the blue Luke/Anakin lightsaber blasted to oblivion by Darth Vader in Episode V?
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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #69 on: December 19, 2015, 10:17:44 AM »
I doubt Rey is Luke's daughter. Jedi are supposed to be unmarried and childless, right?

Like that ever stopped anyone.

There's this one little thing that has been bugging me quite a bit... wasn't the blue Luke/Anakin lightsaber blasted to oblivion by Darth Vader in Episode V?

Yeah, it fell down the Cloud City mega chasm along with Luke's severed hand. When Han asked Maz how she got it she just said "a good question, for another time". It seems that they have at least thought about. Maybe we'll know in a future movie, maybe we'll never find out how. Either way it doesn't really bother me.