Author Topic: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*  (Read 59118 times)

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Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #140 on: December 21, 2015, 05:43:35 AM »
I don't want to derail this thread, the celebration of A New Hope actually done right, but I loved 425's posts on the prequels. I feel that same way.  And for me, they slayed the OT in almost every way.  The Prequel haters just have to deal with the fact that not everyone shares their OPINION on things.

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #141 on: December 21, 2015, 05:46:14 AM »
I don't want to derail this thread, the celebration of A New Hope actually done right, but I loved 425's posts on the prequels. I feel that same way.  And for me, they slayed the OT in almost every way.  The Prequel haters just have to deal with the fact that not everyone shares their OPINION on things.

And I'm fine with that... I just can't comprehend how anyone sees character development and strong story/plot in the first PTs - particularly 1 and 2.  Those that do are definitely in the minority - here and everywhere.  I got no beef with it though, whatever floats your boat.
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Offline kaos2900

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #142 on: December 21, 2015, 06:53:53 AM »
Haven't seen this posted yet:

https://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/20/jj-abrams-reveals-obi-wan-and-yoda-are-star-wars-force-awakens

Cool that Ewan McGregor was involved. I went saw it again on Friday and was able to look for more nuggets and I did notice the "These are your first steps" line after Rey's vision though I originally thought it was Luke's voice. I also noticed that you can hear Vader's breathing when Kylo Ren stabs Han. I'm going to go see it one more time with the wife in January once it calms down a bit.

Oh, and I'm not as convinced that Luke is Rey's father. It sounds like Luke was training multiple younglings when Kylo Ren betrayed him and I'm thinking Rey was one of his better students and he sent her away to protect her. Though there are so many questions around Kylo's betrayal of Luke. Did he slaughter the other younglings? How did Kylo hook up with Knights of Ren? How did Snoke influence him? Who is Snoke and how did he get power? I'm guessing that most of Rey's vision was of the past and I can't freaking wait for Episode 8.

My ranking of the series as of now is

5
7
3
6
4
2
1

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #143 on: December 21, 2015, 07:03:29 AM »
I don't want to derail this thread, the celebration of A New Hope actually done right, but I loved 425's posts on the prequels. I feel that same way.  And for me, they slayed the OT in almost every way.  The Prequel haters just have to deal with the fact that not everyone shares their OPINION on things.

And I'm fine with that... I just can't comprehend how anyone sees character development and strong story/plot in the first PTs - particularly 1 and 2.  Those that do are definitely in the minority - here and everywhere.  I got no beef with it though, whatever floats your boat.

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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #145 on: December 21, 2015, 07:31:07 AM »
The Prequel haters just have to deal with the fact that not everyone shares their OPINION on things.

I don't hate the prequels per say....I think it's more of the fact that the original three are so ingrained into my psyche as 'STAR WARS' being that was right in my wheelhouse of childhood....that it'd take a lot to supplant those emotions I have for them.

My largest argument (it's the common argument) against the prequels was they were just too heavy with the CGI....they didn't feel like movies to me, it felt like I was watching a cartoon or computer game. Some people may like that. I didn't. I did like the saber duels a ton...but simply, they didn't 'do it' for me. Leaving all critiques of the acting, writing, directing, cinematography aside....just wasn't my cup of tea but I can understand if others liked/loved it.
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Offline 425

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #146 on: December 21, 2015, 07:50:58 AM »
But 425, it's like you're joking with your arguments.

This is perhaps the least civil thing you can say in a conversation of this kind.


2 is worse (ditto on the the plot-holes, and to think that the love story b/t Anakin and Padme was the foundation for his turn to the dark-side and all the atrocities he commits in 3 is laughable);

That is far from the sole reason. There are a lot of complexities in Episode III that are often missed. For example, in addition to the whole "I can save your wife" thing, Palpatine basically convinces Anakin that the Jedi are trying to seize power. This is "supported" by the fact that the Jedi council asked Anakin to spy on Palpatine and further bolstered when Anakin sees Mace Windu try to kill an unarmed Palpatine. This is a big part of things, too. If his trust in the Jedi order had not previously been shaken multiple times throughout Revenge of the Sith, he probably would not have saved Palpatine and therefore not turned to the Dark Side.

And so, when he kills the Jedi, younglings included (which is the only real atrocity that needs to be explained; executing the Separatist leaders is as simple as those people waged a war against him that caused him pain and he wants revenge), he believes that he is destroying a corrupt institution. Sidious has convinced him that even the minds of the younglings had already been poisoned against the Chancellor. Vader believes that by doing something very unpleasant (murdering children) he is achieving the greater end of preserving the Republic from a serious internal threat.


I don't want to derail this thread, the celebration of A New Hope actually done right, but I loved 425's posts on the prequels. I feel that same way.  And for me, they slayed the OT in almost every way.  The Prequel haters just have to deal with the fact that not everyone shares their OPINION on things.

 :tup

And with that, I'm going to stop sidetracking this thread and bow out. May the Force be with you all.
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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #147 on: December 21, 2015, 07:56:05 AM »
We should take the discussion on the PT's to the main thread.
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Offline BlackInk

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #148 on: December 21, 2015, 08:12:54 AM »
5
7
3
6
4
2
1

This is probably how I'd put them as well.

But 425, it's like you're joking with your arguments.

This is perhaps the least civil thing you can say in a conversation of this kind.

It really isn't. If I went into the 'The Room' thread and started praising the movie for its clever and complex writing, you'd assume I was joking. The Room is obviously worse than the PT, but the principle is the same.

Offline FlyingBIZKIT

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #149 on: December 21, 2015, 08:21:19 AM »
One of my friends thinks Episode II is the best and I just cannot, for the life of me, understand that. To me, it's so forgettable.

Anyway, loved Episode VII, damn good! Just watched Episode IV last night, it has been so long since I've seen the original trilogy. Can't wait to see Empire again :metal

Offline Beowulf

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #150 on: December 21, 2015, 11:24:13 AM »
Don't think this was mentioned yet... but below is a link that discusses some canon/non-canon theories of a bunch of questions this movie brought about:

https://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-questions/

It's definitely an interesting read, for those SW geeks out there.
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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #151 on: December 21, 2015, 11:53:22 AM »
Some can't stand Kevin but I find him entertaining to listen to and he has some nice things to say.

Kevin Smith gives his thoughts on TFA
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Offline kaos2900

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #152 on: December 21, 2015, 01:37:31 PM »
Don't think this was mentioned yet... but below is a link that discusses some canon/non-canon theories of a bunch of questions this movie brought about:

https://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-questions/

It's definitely an interesting read, for those SW geeks out there.

Thanks for sharing! That was great! I'm thinking it's more and more likely that a Rey is Luke's daughter.

Only 522 days until Episode 8!!!

Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #153 on: December 21, 2015, 01:43:26 PM »

I think it was a brilliant move on their part to have the similarity and it accomplished exactly what they wanted. It got those of us with the bad taste of the prequels in our mouths back on board and pumped.....I don't see Episode VIII being verbatim ESB.....but I do think Luke will go down in the same manner Obi Wan did....right in front of Rey and at his choosing while facing Ren.

I understand totally why they did it, and it was a smart move that worked, but it's also a bit sad on some level that people are praising it so universally right now given that it was kind of a cover version of Star Wars featuring the original musicians.

As I said, I enjoyed the movie a lot, and I'm still hoping it smashes the shit out of Avatar's box office record, I just really hope the future of the franchise has a lot more to offer than recycling the OT. If they can keep the characters from becoming reworkings of the OT (such as killing off Luke in the same way as Obi Wan, which would be an obvious and tired move), then they'll definitely succeed at that. The movie set up so much potential for Finn, Rey, Ren, and Poe, and they'll have more room to work with now that they're done covering the basics of what happened in the past 30+ years.

From what Abrams said in an interview I read (Ill try to dig it up) Riann Johnson was on set and very involved in the day to day with Episode 7 and asked for certain aspects of his plan for Ep. VIII to be dropped here and there. Abrams said he has worked with Johnson and Trevorrow to help with the continuity of the three movies.

In this interview:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2015/12/13/jj-abrams-star-wars-the-force-awakens/76911016/

Abrams perfectly explains IMO why there is so much familiarity but also points out....as we all know....there is plenty of originality.

I think the next movie is going to be darker....going to be less 'giddy' and a bit more serious in overall tone.

Personally, I REALLY like the direction Abrams took the franchise.  The plot holes aside, the story is solid and really does create a nice continuity with the past.  And I, for one, really like the "history repeats itself" aspect of VII.  Some may feel that he is either lying or that that is just a convenient vehicle for taking a cheap way to revisit nostalgia or to repackage ep. IV.  And while I get that, I largely don't care, even if it is true.  History repeating itself with tragic consequences because of a failure to learn from/understand the past is a great theme, and one that to me could quite possibly elevate this next set of films far past the original franchise. 
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #154 on: December 21, 2015, 02:36:30 PM »

I think it was a brilliant move on their part to have the similarity and it accomplished exactly what they wanted. It got those of us with the bad taste of the prequels in our mouths back on board and pumped.....I don't see Episode VIII being verbatim ESB.....but I do think Luke will go down in the same manner Obi Wan did....right in front of Rey and at his choosing while facing Ren.

I understand totally why they did it, and it was a smart move that worked, but it's also a bit sad on some level that people are praising it so universally right now given that it was kind of a cover version of Star Wars featuring the original musicians.

As I said, I enjoyed the movie a lot, and I'm still hoping it smashes the shit out of Avatar's box office record, I just really hope the future of the franchise has a lot more to offer than recycling the OT. If they can keep the characters from becoming reworkings of the OT (such as killing off Luke in the same way as Obi Wan, which would be an obvious and tired move), then they'll definitely succeed at that. The movie set up so much potential for Finn, Rey, Ren, and Poe, and they'll have more room to work with now that they're done covering the basics of what happened in the past 30+ years.

From what Abrams said in an interview I read (Ill try to dig it up) Riann Johnson was on set and very involved in the day to day with Episode 7 and asked for certain aspects of his plan for Ep. VIII to be dropped here and there. Abrams said he has worked with Johnson and Trevorrow to help with the continuity of the three movies.

In this interview:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2015/12/13/jj-abrams-star-wars-the-force-awakens/76911016/

Abrams perfectly explains IMO why there is so much familiarity but also points out....as we all know....there is plenty of originality.

I think the next movie is going to be darker....going to be less 'giddy' and a bit more serious in overall tone.

Personally, I REALLY like the direction Abrams took the franchise.  The plot holes aside, the story is solid and really does create a nice continuity with the past.  And I, for one, really like the "history repeats itself" aspect of VII.  Some may feel that he is either lying or that that is just a convenient vehicle for taking a cheap way to revisit nostalgia or to repackage ep. IV.  And while I get that, I largely don't care, even if it is true.  History repeating itself with tragic consequences because of a failure to learn from/understand the past is a great theme, and one that to me could quite possibly elevate this next set of films far past the original franchise.

I'm the same. I think he did a good job of bringing that universe back to the 'old school' fans with the throwbacks and familiarity's and nailed the introduction and development of the new characters to where I really care about them and what's going to happen to them and the story going forward. I don't think there's much else you can ask?
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #155 on: December 21, 2015, 02:44:50 PM »
Yes, but what I was trying to say is that it is not just about the nostalgia--the "history repeats itself" theme is pretty powerful.
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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #156 on: December 21, 2015, 04:55:24 PM »
Yes, but what I was trying to say is that it is not just about the nostalgia--the "history repeats itself" theme is pretty powerful.

True...especially in the STAR WARS universe..
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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #157 on: December 21, 2015, 07:46:41 PM »
To put it into perspective, the current user rating on imdb would put it tied with ESB as the best movie.

I wouldn't take the IMDB ratings seriously. That site is full of fanboys, rating new movies (especially superhero movies) a 10 even before watching it. There's better sites for that.
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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #158 on: December 21, 2015, 07:51:14 PM »
To put it into perspective, the current user rating on imdb would put it tied with ESB as the best movie.

I wouldn't take the IMDB ratings seriously. That site is full of fanboys, rating new movies (especially superhero movies) a 10 even before watching it. There's better sites for that.

That was from 100k votes (it's now at a rating of 8.7). If you're a fanboy, it stands to reason you've actually seen the movie by now. I find imdb good for a general score from real people, once it's settles down after release. People are just caught up in the excitement of new Star Wars. Rotten Tomatoes also puts it similarly highly.
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Offline Outcrier

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #159 on: December 21, 2015, 07:57:58 PM »
Well, the best movie rating site i know is RYM, which, ironically, is a music site to begin it. There's no Avengers and Dark Knight Rises in the top 250 there  ;)
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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #160 on: December 21, 2015, 08:12:34 PM »
I never knew that RYM even had movies on there, and even looking I can't find shit on there except user lists. I find the site pretty pretentious for music, so I don't care to see what they think of movies anyway.

TDK wouldn't make my top 250, never seen TDKR or the Marvel stuff.
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Offline Outcrier

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #161 on: December 21, 2015, 08:31:01 PM »
Force Awakens is getting pretty good reviews/ratings there. Of course it isn't being rated as good as the OT (New Hope and Empire Strikes Back are top 100 in RYM and Return of the Jedi, top 500) but it will end within the top 1000 for sure if it keeps the current ratings.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 08:36:53 PM by Outcrier »
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Offline MetalJunkie

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #162 on: December 21, 2015, 10:52:36 PM »
I just saw it for the third time tonight. I don't find it wearing on me at all; in fact, I think I like it more each time. I pick up on more subtle things with each viewing, too.

I like the crowd reactions as much as the scenes that cause them. The funny stuff, like the thumbs up, the Chewie/Doc checkup, the "trash compactor" suggestion, as well as the WTF stuff like, uh, Gone Solo.
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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #163 on: December 21, 2015, 11:02:57 PM »
Regarding the "they built another death star?", I think that's a problem that comes with the territory of making a sequel in the first place. Because if they could build a weapon that could destroy planets 30 years ago, why wouldn't they try to do that again? Once you introduce the concept of such weapon, the bad guys will still try to do it. With a 30 year gap it gives them perfect time to do so. But now with Starkiller Base out of the way, they will hopefully prevent the empire from building any more.

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #164 on: December 21, 2015, 11:04:26 PM »
One more example of how multi layered and rich the dialog is in this film.

Adam Driver's performance at the crucial moment was so perfect.   It's like, I *KNEW* that he was going to kill him, but when the crucial moment came, Adam's facial performance was so fantastic that he actually had me doubting he would go through with it for a brief moment.   Considering I walked into the theater thinking it was a foregone conclusion, that's pretty impressive.   (Harrison had been saying since RotJ that he would never do it again unless Han died) 

On top of that, the lines of dialog could be interpreted several ways....honest wavering in his conviction, or possibly even some warped sense of feeling like he needed Han's *help* in killing him, as a weird poetic justice in his own mind.   It could be interpreted either way.   

Just hadn't heard really decently written dialog in a Star Wars movie for a very VERY long time...  :neverusethis:
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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #165 on: December 21, 2015, 11:16:38 PM »
Just hadn't heard really decently written dialog in a Star Wars movie for a very VERY long time...  :neverusethis:
I was hoping Kylo would tell Han that he was like sand. Coarse and irritating and all that.
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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #166 on: December 22, 2015, 05:08:47 AM »
Regarding the "they built another death star?", I think that's a problem that comes with the territory of making a sequel in the first place. Because if they could build a weapon that could destroy planets 30 years ago, why wouldn't they try to do that again? Once you introduce the concept of such weapon, the bad guys will still try to do it. With a 30 year gap it gives them perfect time to do so. But now with Starkiller Base out of the way, they will hopefully prevent the empire from building any more.

It wasn't explicitly mentioned, but hopefully they can avoid this because the planet had some unique aspect about it that made it the only one viable to be Starkiller.

One thing I wondered about the base... if it required the sun of that system to power, how was it powered for the first shot?  Did I miss that?
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Offline BlackInk

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #167 on: December 22, 2015, 05:12:40 AM »
I've wondered about that too. I just assumed they could move it between different stars.

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #168 on: December 22, 2015, 05:12:45 AM »
Regarding the "they built another death star?", I think that's a problem that comes with the territory of making a sequel in the first place. Because if they could build a weapon that could destroy planets 30 years ago, why wouldn't they try to do that again? Once you introduce the concept of such weapon, the bad guys will still try to do it. With a 30 year gap it gives them perfect time to do so. But now with Starkiller Base out of the way, they will hopefully prevent the empire from building any more.

It wasn't explicitly mentioned, but hopefully they can avoid this because the planet had some unique aspect about it that made it the only one viable to be Starkiller.

One thing I wondered about the base... if it required the sun of that system to power, how was it powered for the first shot?  Did I miss that?

One shot doesn't require the full power of the sun, so it's possible they only sucked off a bit of the sun for one shot, then sucked the entire sun for the big multi-burst.
I'd also expect you don't build an entire planet into an ass-kicking weapon that only has one finite fuel source, so it's possible that it has some method of propulsion to move itself to another star system for more fuel.
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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #169 on: December 22, 2015, 07:24:14 AM »
Here's a nugget: The stormtrooper that get forced to release Rey and later drop his weapon was Daniel Craig.

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #170 on: December 22, 2015, 09:38:01 AM »
That rumor was denied by JJ.

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #171 on: December 22, 2015, 10:06:28 AM »
Ohh  :-\

Which one though, him not being in that specific scene or in the movie at all? He's listed on imdb atleast.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 10:16:00 AM by MrBoom_shack-a-lack »
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Offline T-ski

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #172 on: December 22, 2015, 10:13:27 AM »
I may have missed it earlier in the thread, but Starkiller was Luke's original last name before the studio told Lucas to change it.
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Offline Implode

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #173 on: December 22, 2015, 10:50:26 AM »
Yeah, that had me groaning a bit in the movie.  :lol

Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
« Reply #174 on: December 22, 2015, 10:53:34 AM »
Why groaning?  I thought that was one of many nice little nuggets for the hard cores.
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