Author Topic: What would it take for the US to be justified in using another nuke?  (Read 725 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Chino

  • Be excellent to each other.
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 19304
  • Gender: Male
I came across this article earlier.

https://consortiumnews.com/2015/12/08/cruz-threatens-to-nuke-isis-targets/

What would actually have to happen for the US to use such force and have the American people (the vast majority) agree with it?

Offline kaos2900

  • Posts: 1979
  • Gender: Male
Re: What would it take for the US to be justified in using another nuke?
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2015, 08:03:36 AM »
I see no scenario in which dropping a nuke any where would stop ISIS. In fact, it would just embolden them more. Cruz is a fucking moron.

Online El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 19087
  • Bad Craziness
Re: What would it take for the US to be justified in using another nuke?
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2015, 08:04:58 AM »
Being nuked or electing a lunatic.

And I suspect Cruz is just trying to compete with Trump.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Implode

  • Lord of the Squids
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 5444
  • Gender: Male
Re: What would it take for the US to be justified in using another nuke?
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2015, 08:24:17 AM »
I agree with the sentiments above.

But to answer your question, I'd certainly hope that by now we have the technology to be able to easily overpower a threat without endangering our entire species. I'd say nothing would justify that (outside of a Earth saving scenario like in Armageddon or The Core lol).

Offline lordxizor

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2510
  • Gender: Male
  • and that is the truth.
Re: What would it take for the US to be justified in using another nuke?
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2015, 09:54:34 AM »
I'm not sure there are any scenarios where a nuke would be justified.

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 16199
  • Gender: Male
    • The Home of cramx3
Re: What would it take for the US to be justified in using another nuke?
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2015, 10:07:51 AM »
Someone else nuking us?  I can see that being the only justification although starting a nuclear war would be very bad

I could only see the use of a nuke against ISIS as worthy if they were all gathered in one spot without innocents and a nuke would be the best option to annihilate all in one quick shot.  We all know that ISIS or any enemy isn't that dumb though.

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9907
  • Gender: Male
Re: What would it take for the US to be justified in using another nuke?
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2015, 10:28:17 AM »
Someone else nuking us?  I can see that being the only justification although starting a nuclear war would be very bad

I could only see the use of a nuke against ISIS as worthy if they were all gathered in one spot without innocents and a nuke would be the best option to annihilate all in one quick shot.  We all know that ISIS or any enemy isn't that dumb though.

"Hey guys, guys.  Come over here.  Stand here.   No, right here.   Please.  Okay, I'll be right back, don't move!"

Offline Implode

  • Lord of the Squids
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 5444
  • Gender: Male
Re: What would it take for the US to be justified in using another nuke?
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2015, 10:36:25 AM »
 :rollin

"Don't worry about that target-looking thing you're standing on! It's just decorative!"

Offline TempusVox

  • Descendant of Primus
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5206
  • Gender: Male
Re: What would it take for the US to be justified in using another nuke?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2015, 01:08:51 AM »
 Hello? Uh hello...D- uh hello Dmitri? I can't hear too well. Do you suppose you could turn the music down just a little?... Oh-ho, that's much better... yeah... huh... yes... Fine, I can hear you now, Dmitri... Clear and plain and coming through fine... I'm coming through fine, too, eh?... Good, then... well, then, as you say, we're both coming through fine... Good... Well, it's good that you're fine and... and I'm fine... I agree with you, it's great to be fine... a-ha-ha-ha-ha... Now then, Dmitri, you know how we've always talked about the possibility of something going wrong with the Bomb... The Bomb Dmitri... The hydrogen bomb!... Well now, what happened is... ahem... one of our base commanders, he had a sort of... well, he went a little funny in the head... you know... just a little... funny. And, ah... he went and did a silly thing... Well, I'll tell you what he did. He ordered his planes... to attack your country... Ah... Well, let me finish, Dmitri... Let me finish, Dmitri... Well listen, how do you think I feel about it?... Can you imagine how I feel about it, Dmitri?... Why do you think I'm calling you? Just to say hello?... Well of course I like to speak to you!... Of course I like to say hello!... Not now, but anytime, Dmitri. I'm just calling up to tell you something terrible has happened... It's a friendly call. Of course it's a friendly call... Listen, if it wasn't friendly... you probably wouldn't have even got it... They will not reach their targets for at least another hour... I am... I am positive, Dmitri... Listen, I've been all over this with your ambassador. It is not a trick... Well, I'll tell you. We'd like to give your air staff a complete run-down on the targets, the flight plans, and the defensive systems of the planes... Yes! I mean i-i-i-if we're unable to recall the planes, then... I'd say that, ah... well, ah... we're just gonna have to help you destroy them, Dmitri... I know they're our boys... All right, well listen now. Who should we call?... Who should we call, Dmitri? The... wha-whe, the People... you... sorry, you faded away there... The People's Central Air Defense Headquarters... Where is that, Dmitri?... In Omsk... Right... Yes... Oh, you'll call them first, will you?... Uh-huh... Listen, do you happen to have the phone number on you, Dmitri?... Whe-ah, what? I see, just ask for Omsk information... Ah-ah-eh-uhm-hmm... I'm sorry, too, Dmitri... I'm very sorry... All right, you're sorrier than I am, but I am as sorry as well... I am as sorry as you are, Dmitri! Don't say that you're more sorry than I am, because I'm capable of being just as sorry as you are... So we're both sorry, all right?... All right then...goodbye Dmitri...bye.
You don't HAVE a soul.You ARE a soul.You HAVE a body.
"I came here to drink milk and kick ass; and I just finished my milk."

Online El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 19087
  • Bad Craziness
Re: What would it take for the US to be justified in using another nuke?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2015, 08:16:52 AM »
Never been much of a Peter Sellers fan, but his characterization of President Muffley was just extraordinary. You can certainly see why he's held in such high regard. And that was a great monologue, as well. It's a shame he didn't get to play Maj. Kong. I'd love to have heard him do the all business Texan.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Calvin6s

  • Posts: 3404
Re: What would it take for the US to be justified in using another nuke?
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2016, 05:32:51 AM »
"All options are on the table"

The line has been used as a non-answer answer so much that it has lost any bluff value and become a punch line.

Also "nuclear umbrella". 

Nothing new.  It was a big talking point in 2008 as well
Analysts Divided on Clinton's Arab Defense Plan
I recall the net talk being nothing less than "this woman can never get anywhere near the White House.  She's crazy."
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Offline Prog Snob

  • Posts: 16618
  • Gender: Male
  • Truth is not for all men, only those who seek it.
Re: What would it take for the US to be justified in using another nuke?
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2016, 05:48:29 AM »
Someone else nuking us?  I can see that being the only justification although starting a nuclear war would be very bad

I could only see the use of a nuke against ISIS as worthy if they were all gathered in one spot without innocents and a nuke would be the best option to annihilate all in one quick shot.  We all know that ISIS or any enemy isn't that dumb though.

"Hey guys, guys.  Come over here.  Stand here.   No, right here.   Please.  Okay, I'll be right back, don't move!"

It's possible. Just tell them their virgins are in that building with the big bullseye on it.  :lol

Seriously, though. I don't see it happening except in retaliation. It would be nice if we could wipe out ISIS in one fell swoop but that's just a pipe dream. They're too ubiquitous of a group for that to even have a chance of happening.

Online El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 19087
  • Bad Craziness
Re: What would it take for the US to be justified in using another nuke?
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2016, 08:51:59 AM »
There are always better retaliatory options on the table that don't carry the baggage. During Gulf War I they had a contingency plan to start knocking off dams on the Tigris. Despite the very direct threat of nukes our "all bets are off" plan was to flood Baghdad. That was a last resort retalitatory option should WMG become involved, as the consequences were completely unknown but were expected to be horrendous. Nukes were never an option.

For us, that is. Israel is a completely different matter. I think that's been the case for quite some time, and barring a President Cruz will continue to be so.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Calvin6s

  • Posts: 3404
Re: What would it take for the US to be justified in using another nuke?
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2016, 05:27:44 AM »
North Korea nukes DC propaganda video

What is sad is that this 3rd gen leader is so completely engulfed in NK's own propaganda having not been around pre-DPRK, that the only thing that might be stopping him from doing something so crazy is NK's ICBM tech.  I don't envy Japan at all.

I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Offline Prog Snob

  • Posts: 16618
  • Gender: Male
  • Truth is not for all men, only those who seek it.
Re: What would it take for the US to be justified in using another nuke?
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2016, 05:37:36 AM »
There are always better retaliatory options on the table that don't carry the baggage. During Gulf War I they had a contingency plan to start knocking off dams on the Tigris. Despite the very direct threat of nukes our "all bets are off" plan was to flood Baghdad. That was a last resort retalitatory option should WMG become involved, as the consequences were completely unknown but were expected to be horrendous. Nukes were never an option.



I agree.  I didn't mean it to sound like it is the only option for retaliation, just that if it ever were to happen, it would be through some kind of retaliation. I don't see us dropping it first...ever.

Offline Genowyn

  • That name's pretty cool, and honestly, I'd like to change mine to it.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 5288
  • Gender: Male
  • But Hachikuji, I've told you over and over...
Re: What would it take for the US to be justified in using another nuke?
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2016, 07:22:47 AM »
North Korea nukes DC propaganda video

What is sad is that this 3rd gen leader is so completely engulfed in NK's own propaganda having not been around pre-DPRK, that the only thing that might be stopping him from doing something so crazy is NK's ICBM tech.  I don't envy Japan at all.



Jong-Un has probably been raised to listen to his advisors, who I expect are clever enough not to actually nuke anyone.  The DPRK's nuclear bluster is mostly about getting us to listen to them and, they hope, start lifting sanctions. They know if they actually use a nuke they're in trouble... Their relationships with China and Russia are already shaky, and using a nuke would be the final nail in that coffin

...my name is Araragi.

Online El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 19087
  • Bad Craziness
Re: What would it take for the US to be justified in using another nuke?
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2016, 08:23:06 AM »
North Korea nukes DC propaganda video

What is sad is that this 3rd gen leader is so completely engulfed in NK's own propaganda having not been around pre-DPRK, that the only thing that might be stopping him from doing something so crazy is NK's ICBM tech.  I don't envy Japan at all.



Jong-Un has probably been raised to listen to his advisors, who I expect are clever enough not to actually nuke anyone.  The DPRK's nuclear bluster is mostly about getting us to listen to them and, they hope, start lifting sanctions. They know if they actually use a nuke they're in trouble... Their relationships with China and Russia are already shaky, and using a nuke would be the final nail in that coffin
It seems like all of the Kims have a history of whacking their advisers from time to time. While I figure they have some pull with Great Leader, I also figure they're quite mindful of what they think he wants to hear and censor themselves accordingly. In any case, crazier people than that nimrod have had nukes. There's always a strong deterrent and that tends to check even the craziest of the loons.

Moreover, I don't think the North Koreans possess the factors that would be most likely to lead to a big kaboom. They're not religious and they're not locked in an existential struggle against some ideology. I'd rank them below Israel, possibly below India/Pakistan, and depending on who has the football, the US in terms of likelihood of nuking somebody.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Genowyn

  • That name's pretty cool, and honestly, I'd like to change mine to it.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 5288
  • Gender: Male
  • But Hachikuji, I've told you over and over...
Re: What would it take for the US to be justified in using another nuke?
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2016, 08:33:14 AM »
I know a general or two have mysteriously disappeared under Jong-un's rule, but with the opacity of their government it's hard to tell if those were serious grievances or just "By the way I can still do this".

Jong-un also has a few siblings, particularly an older sister whom Il-sung favored as Jong-il's heir. As far as we know she's pretty involved in the running of the DPRK as well, and who knows how much pull she has on Jong-un?

...my name is Araragi.