Author Topic: DT14 speculation thread  (Read 33225 times)

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Offline gzarruk

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #525 on: March 06, 2017, 08:46:25 AM »
Has he only ever played the Chapman Stick on one song on one album ?

Kinda bizarre that in 13 albums he's only played it once ?

I always wondered the same. It's such a cool instrument for him to only use it in New Millenium  :-\
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #526 on: March 06, 2017, 09:16:04 AM »
We agree!

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I thought he would be having another run like that starting with ADTOE, continuing with DT, but he had to change his approach in TA because of the material. He employed the approach he took in playing the SDOIT song.

I would like to add that I grew to love the tone of the bass in the DT album. Like you, I did not like it at first. But numerous listenings to Illumination Theory made me love the aggression of the bass sound that allowed it toc ut throught JP's rhythm guitar work.

Has he only ever played the Chapman Stick on one song on one album ?

Kinda bizarre that in 13 albums he's only played it once ?


I don't know if it was a joke or not, but I remember reading something about the guys, particularly JP, teasing JMX when he used the Chapman Stick, describing it as an ugly instrument.

Yes. SDOIT still has some cool moments, but since then the bass has gone completely to the background.  :-\

I think it's really a function of the style of songs they are playing. I noticed that JMX tends to go to the background when they do metal (except for a few songs like Panic Attack) and when they do songs that have an orchestral(-sound) arrangement. He really shines when it's more at the proggy end of the spectrum, which is why in the TA album, he stands out in TGOM, ASITS, ALLB, ONW.

Offline rumborak

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #527 on: March 06, 2017, 09:29:21 AM »
Dropping into the background as a bass player when playing metal is weird though. I would say that's *the* style where the bass should be audible.

BTW, I just listened to the bass stems of BCSL. What struck me was, with the exception of Wither, he always plays with pretty heavy distortion on the bass. I wonder whether that's one of the causes him being low in the mix. If you pull him up, you're gonna get a lot of distortion artifacts creeping into JP's territory. JP's low-end distortion and JMX's distortion probably don't play too nice with each other.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 09:41:02 AM by rumborak »
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #528 on: March 06, 2017, 09:42:47 AM »
I think JM suffers of bad/low mixing the most
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #529 on: March 06, 2017, 11:28:48 AM »
Dropping into the background as a bass player when playing metal is weird though. I would say that's *the* style where the bass should be audible.

BTW, I just listened to the bass stems of BCSL. What struck me was, with the exception of Wither, he always plays with pretty heavy distortion on the bass. I wonder whether that's one of the causes him being low in the mix. If you pull him up, you're gonna get a lot of distortion artifacts creeping into JP's territory. JP's low-end distortion and JMX's distortion probably don't play too nice with each other.
JM definitely uses more distortion now than he seemed to do before.  I wish he wouldn't, unless for specific effect on specific songs.
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Offline Architeuthis

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #530 on: March 06, 2017, 01:41:34 PM »
It would be great to see JM featured more in the next album. He's such a prolific bass player and shouldn't be overshadowed by the keyboards and guitar. Or at least write more parts in songs that have sections where the bass is in the spotlight.
 Rush does that very well!  Mike Lepond's Silent Assassins album is a great example of  bass tone and standing out at the right times.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #531 on: March 06, 2017, 01:46:03 PM »
DT14 will have the whole band in a room jamming and recording as they go like they used to do with Portnoy.

They also did it on DT12 and that album is a pretty good -ah.

I listened to it last night and it's a good album bar the drum sound and Surrender To Reason.

Offline Adami

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #532 on: March 06, 2017, 01:47:28 PM »
Yea, I think if JM had a better tone, the mix would be easier.

A tone like Dave LaRue would be great, or something where it carries enough low end but is still crystal clear, audible, you can make out what notes he's hitting as opposed to "lots of notes there" and can mesh well with the other instruments.

I think, as others have pointed out, however, that DT's current production is so thick, that the bass tends to just get pushed back until it's barely there to make room for all of the guitars/keyboards etc.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #533 on: March 06, 2017, 02:14:39 PM »
A tone like Dave LaRue would be great, or something where it carries enough low end but is still crystal clear, audible, you can make out what notes he's hitting as opposed to "lots of notes there" and can mesh well with the other instruments.
That would be great.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #534 on: March 06, 2017, 04:45:36 PM »
Yeah, a basic crunchy bass is the best. Dave Meros and Pat Badger also always stood out to me with their sound.
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Offline Fritzinger

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #535 on: March 07, 2017, 01:37:52 PM »
Has he only ever played the Chapman Stick on one song on one album ?

Kinda bizarre that in 13 albums he's only played it once ?


I don't know if it was a joke or not, but I remember reading something about the guys, particularly JP, teasing JMX when he used the Chapman Stick, describing it as an ugly instrument.

They described the Chapman Stick as an ugly instrument and then teamed up with Tony Levin a few weeks later? That seems odd.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #536 on: March 07, 2017, 02:45:07 PM »
I think the more mundane explanation is that he realized that he didn't gain all that much with the Chapman Stick, given how he already plays a 6-string bass and has no problems tapping on that.
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Offline Adami

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #537 on: March 07, 2017, 02:48:50 PM »
I think the more mundane explanation is that he realized that he didn't gain all that much with the Chapman Stick, given how he already plays a 6-string bass and has no problems tapping on that.

He also, based solely on the Live in Budokan performance, didn't really utilize the chapman stick to much of a degree outside of the main tapping riff.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #538 on: March 07, 2017, 02:51:08 PM »
I was watching that just now, yeah. From what I can tell, he plucks it like a regular bass during most of the song.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #539 on: March 07, 2017, 02:53:15 PM »
I think the more mundane explanation is that he realized that he didn't gain all that much with the Chapman Stick, given how he already plays a 6-string bass and has no problems tapping on that.
That's my theory as well.  And, in addition to that, I also speculate that part of it may also be his oft-stated obsessive need to "master" his art.  He, as far as I know, doesn't spend much time trying to master the Chapman Stick.  He experimented with it for a relatively brief period, and felt competent enough to do New Millenium.  But I'm guessing he doesn't really have any desire to do more with it without really mastering it, and he doesn't really have any driving desire to master that instrument.  But, again, that's just me guessing.  I think what you posted is the simple answer that either mostly or entirely answers the question.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #540 on: March 07, 2017, 03:51:12 PM »
I also suspect that had it not been for Levin's use of it in LTE, not a lot of people would be discussing it on here. It was kind of a fad for a while, but these days you don't see it all that much anymore.
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Online kingshmegland

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #541 on: March 07, 2017, 04:24:44 PM »
I also suspect that had it not been for Levin's use of it in LTE, not a lot of people would be discussing it on here. It was kind of a fad for a while, but these days you don't see it all that much anymore.

One that comes to mind is Nick Beggs who plays with Steven Wilson.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #542 on: March 09, 2017, 09:41:12 AM »
I found this interview with JM after DT12 was released where he talks about his basses, tone, gear, etc. He was also asked about the champan stick, here's what he said:

Quote
FBPO: You’re not really known as a Chapman “stick” player, but I understand you play that too.

JM: I have one. I used it on a song called “New Millennium” on the Falling Into Infinity album a while back. I’ve wanted to use it more, but it’s something that I just haven’t really been able to add, at least to Dream Theater records. I mean, once again, it just falls down to this time factor. I think it’s very important to have something else that takes you away from your primary instrument to give you a different perspective, to change things up and that’s one of those instruments for me. But you’re right, it hasn’t really made its way onto Dream Theater records, apart from one song. It’s just something I do more when I’m at home, but we’ll see.

Hope he remembers to use it on the next album.


The whole thing: http://forbassplayersonly.com/interview-john-myung/
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #543 on: March 09, 2017, 10:34:02 AM »
I hope that the production for DT14 is *at least* as good as The Astonishing.

It's so close to being amongst the best of their production. They just need to make the drums sound a bit more natural.

But it's the best solo JP production job of the 3 for sure.

Offline rumborak

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #544 on: March 09, 2017, 11:04:49 AM »
I've said it before, but I don't think the album sounds at this point are a function of lack of skill, or stated differently, that the good sound of TA was because JP learned something he didn't know during DT12.
I think JP, with Chychki at the side, gets *exactly* the sound he wants. And with TA he likely felt the wide range of musical styles, and also the story topic, called for a more open sound, whereas for DT12 he probably was looking for exactly the super-tight sound.
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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #545 on: March 09, 2017, 11:04:58 AM »
I hope that the production for DT14 is *at least* as good as The Astonishing.

It's so close to being amongst the best of their production. They just need to make the drums sound a bit more natural.

But it's the best solo JP production job of the 3 for sure.

Agreed, if they can get the drums sounding a bit more natural and taking up a bit more space in the mix, that would be great. Hopefully that will be easier to achieve on the next record (assuming there won't be a string section and all the other instruments that were on TA).

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #546 on: March 09, 2017, 11:43:09 AM »
I've said it before, but I don't think the album sounds at this point are a function of lack of skill, or stated differently, that the good sound of TA was because JP learned something he didn't know during DT12.
I think JP, with Chychki at the side, gets *exactly* the sound he wants. And with TA he likely felt the wide range of musical styles, and also the story topic, called for a more open sound, whereas for DT12 he probably was looking for exactly the super-tight sound.

I'm guessing he didn't ask for ADTOE to sound like a demo and muddy with a weak drum sound.

Offline Logain Ablar

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #547 on: March 09, 2017, 01:51:24 PM »
I totally agree about going for a more natural drum sound. The drum sound definitely let ADTOE down a little for me, but I liked the sound of everything else on that one.

Though, I like the guitar sound better on ADTOE than DT12 and TA - it was drier, with less chorus. It sounds more punchy to me..

Also, it would be great to have less of the vocal "effects" on the next one.  There's points in TA where they are quite noticeable and distracting (for me, at least)

Offline Rammstein

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #548 on: March 10, 2017, 02:38:30 AM »
Overall I think MPs Sound was way better than MMs. More natural and organic sounding. For example the octabans: Manginis octabans Sound so distanced and snappy with a lot of echo. Maybe he hits them too hard? In several interviews he says how hard-hitting his playing style is, you just dont really notice given his crazy good techniqe. But just hitting things hard doesnt make it Sound good in every song Situation imo.
But I still think if you would MM on MPs kit in the studio micded up and mixed just like in MP days, than there would be far less complaints about MMs drumming. Sonic Sound itself makes a lot of difference I suppose.
You could see it in an TEI drum cover vid by MM himself that he did without his signature kit. Man it sounded so much better. Especially snare Toms and cmybals (well everything :D).
But I gotta say what he does with hi hats is crazy good, sometimes sounds like lasers with his 4 hihats

Offline goo-goo

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #549 on: March 10, 2017, 08:45:31 AM »
Overall I think MPs Sound was way better than MMs. More natural and organic sounding. For example the octabans: Manginis octabans Sound so distanced and snappy with a lot of echo. Maybe he hits them too hard? In several interviews he says how hard-hitting his playing style is, you just dont really notice given his crazy good techniqe. But just hitting things hard doesnt make it Sound good in every song Situation imo.
But I still think if you would MM on MPs kit in the studio micded up and mixed just like in MP days, than there would be far less complaints about MMs drumming. Sonic Sound itself makes a lot of difference I suppose.
You could see it in an TEI drum cover vid by MM himself that he did without his signature kit. Man it sounded so much better. Especially snare Toms and cmybals (well everything :D).
But I gotta say what he does with hi hats is crazy good, sometimes sounds like lasers with his 4 hihats

I think Mangini's octobans are made of aluminum if I recall correctly. MP's are made out of wood.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: DT14 speculation thread
« Reply #550 on: March 10, 2017, 10:07:15 AM »
Overall I think MPs Sound was way better than MMs. More natural and organic sounding. For example the octabans: Manginis octabans Sound so distanced and snappy with a lot of echo. Maybe he hits them too hard? In several interviews he says how hard-hitting his playing style is, you just dont really notice given his crazy good techniqe. But just hitting things hard doesnt make it Sound good in every song Situation imo.
But I still think if you would MM on MPs kit in the studio micded up and mixed just like in MP days, than there would be far less complaints about MMs drumming. Sonic Sound itself makes a lot of difference I suppose.
You could see it in an TEI drum cover vid by MM himself that he did without his signature kit. Man it sounded so much better. Especially snare Toms and cmybals (well everything :D).
But I gotta say what he does with hi hats is crazy good, sometimes sounds like lasers with his 4 hihats

I think Mangini's octobans are made of aluminum if I recall correctly. MP's are made out of wood.

Pearl's Rocket Toms (their octobans) are made of aluminum. Tama's Octobans are made of some sort of acrylic, I think. The ones who make wood octobans are DW, if I'm not mistaken.
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