DT14 speculation thread

[gzarruk]

I would imagine that for an actual album, he would hire other musicians.  But maybe not.

This may never happen, but he should get Sherinian on keys 

I remember an interview with him where he said Quantum, from Planet X, was one of his favorite drum albums. Also, there's the DT connection.

[gzarruk]

Now that they've announced a new IAW anniversary tour, what does this mean for the next album? In the case they only tour Europe for it, they could enter the studio mid 2017 for an early 2018 release, but if they decide to make the tour longer (poor James), they might just take the remaining of the year off and enter the studio in early 2018, which would mean a September-ish release or, If they take longer to finish it, even early 2019 

What do you think will end up happening? Anyone with inside information who wants to say a word or two?   

[AboutToCrash]

They've already mentioned in an interview that they've discussed the new album and are really excited so I don't imagine they will wait too long to release it. I imagine it will come out in 2018 at some point!!

[gzarruk]

They've already mentioned in an interview that they've discussed the new album and are really excited so I don't imagine they will wait too long to release it. I imagine it will come out in 2018 at some point!!

That would depend on the lenght of the new IAW tour, which could, probably, last for the whole 2017 in 2 or 3 different legs   

[AboutToCrash]

I thought the mixed reception of the astonishing would've spurred them to create the follow up quicker but it seems they've tried to balance out the tour side of things first

[cramx3]

I thought the mixed reception of the astonishing would've spurred them to create the follow up quicker but it seems they've tried to balance out the tour side of things first

I could see the thought process being about getting the fans back in the seats and do a tour that energizes the fan base to get them back interested in the band and excited for a new release.  Doing I&W seems like the best way to do that and good timing with the anniversary. 

[Architeuthis]

I suspect their next album to be in your face heavy at times, but tastefully done and balanced with a nice ballad or two.
Lol, someone has to answer to Metallica's new release HTSD, which is awesome btw!

[thosava]

I'm hoping that with the next album they'll get back to having three or four 10-minute songs again.

[gzarruk]

I'm hoping that with the next album they'll get back to having three or four 10-minute songs again.

We haven't had that since ADTOE, so It's very possible they end up doing that. Would be perfect! 

I really wish they include much more writing from Mangini on DT14, he has great rhythmic ideas and a fresh approach for the band

[thosava]

I'm hoping that with the next album they'll get back to having three or four 10-minute songs again.

We haven't had that since ADTOE, so It's very possible they end up doing that. Would be perfect! 

I really wish they include much more writing from Mangini on DT14, he has great rhythmic ideas and a fresh approach for the band

Yeah i feel the same. I loved that they tried the shorter song-format for a couple of albums, but now i feel ready for a few more 10-minute songs by them!

[nikatapi]

I'm hoping that with the next album they'll get back to having three or four 10-minute songs again.

We haven't had that since ADTOE, so It's very possible they end up doing that. Would be perfect! 

I really wish they include much more writing from Mangini on DT14, he has great rhythmic ideas and a fresh approach for the band

Yeah, i'd love for Mike to be more involved in the writing process, and of course JM as well. TA was a nice change and i liked that they had the balls to pull it off, but i hope for a more organic, rocking, less forced epic album this time.

[gzarruk]

Many people don't lile the album too much, but DT12 had GREAT drum/bass moments. Their involvement in the writing proccess was notorious.

I'm a bassist and a drummer and, I think, the musical chemistry between Mangini/Myung is better than Portnoy/Myung ever was, specially during the last few albums.

[nikatapi]

Many people don't lile the album too much, but DT12 had GREAT drum/bass moments. Their involvement in the writing proccess was notorious.

I'm a bassist and a drummer and, I think, the musical chemistry between Mangini/Myung is better than Portnoy/Myung ever was, specially during the last few albums.

Completely agreed. There seems to be a great chemistry between the two of them, and i hope it gets further explored. Unfortunately DT12 was not the best showcase because of the mediocre drum sound, but let's hope this will not be the case again.

[gzarruk]

I'm a bassist and a drummer and, I think, the musical chemistry between Mangini/Myung is better than Portnoy/Myung ever was, specially during the last few albums.

Just to clarify, I meant specially for the last few albums with Portnoy 

Many people don't lile the album too much, but DT12 had GREAT drum/bass moments. Their involvement in the writing proccess was notorious.

I'm a bassist and a drummer and, I think, the musical chemistry between Mangini/Myung is better than Portnoy/Myung ever was, specially during the last few albums.

Completely agreed. There seems to be a great chemistry between the two of them, and i hope it gets further explored. Unfortunately DT12 was not the best showcase because of the mediocre drum sound, but let's hope this will not be the case again.

The drum sound on DT12 didn't bother me, but I get why a lot of people hated it. That's, of course not a Mangini fault, but I agree both could be much better mixed on the albums.

Would love to see the middle section of STR being played live someday, those drum/bass grooves are sick!

[rumborak]

The drum sound on DT12 didn't bother me, but I get why a lot of people hated it. That's, of course not a Mangini fault, but I agree both could be much better mixed on the albums.

Isn't it the drummer's job to make job he likes the sound of his instrument on the album?

[Adami]

Honestly, after hearing all of his albums with DT and JLB and his live stuff and his general raw videos, I just don't like MM's drums. Whether it's the shells, the heads, the tuning, I dunno. But they have to be processed to hell for them to sound pretty decent (EoP). But he likes them, so it is what it is.

[gzarruk]

The drum sound on DT12 didn't bother me, but I get why a lot of people hated it. That's, of course not a Mangini fault, but I agree both could be much better mixed on the albums.

Isn't it the drummer's job to make job he likes the sound of his instrument on the album?

If you read Mangini's comments on his FB posts around the time TA was released (where people wrote their complaints about his drum sound), he basically says that the sound they get when recording is amazing, but then they have to mix tons of other tracks and the sound changes (that's what he says). I even have screen shots from those commens, I could transcribe some when I get home.

It isn't Mike's or his drum gear's issue, it's in the mixing proccess where they manipulate the sound and, to be honest, JP isn't exactly the best when it comes to getting the best drum mix sound with whoever is mixing. When Portnoy was in the band, he was so involved with the proccess, he made sure he was always turned waaay high and had a lot of say on his final sound, vs Mangini who doesn't have it, because JP's opinion is the one that matters, and he's still kinda the new guy.

There was also a video from his instructional DVD, The Grid, where he talks about his DT setup (at the same time DT12 was recorded), and actually says his snare sound and tuning for that album was dialed by Petrucci, Chycki and his drum tech Eric to fit the music better. Again, not his fault. Even though I think he could make his opinion a bit more present.
I wish I could link the video, but it was taken down from YT 

[red barchetta]

I'm hoping that with the next album they'll get back to having three or four 10-minute songs again.

We haven't had that since ADTOE, so It's very possible they end up doing that. Would be perfect! 

I really wish they include much more writing from Mangini on DT14, he has great rhythmic ideas and a fresh approach for the band

I'm not sure if Mangini has had a lot to do with the song writing, the melody. Of course he's building the drum parts but I don't know much about his career to know if he has ever wrote songs.

The drum sound on DT12 didn't bother me, but I get why a lot of people hated it. That's, of course not a Mangini fault, but I agree both could be much better mixed on the albums.

Isn't it the drummer's job to make job he likes the sound of his instrument on the album?

Since the departure of Portnoy, I'm not sure but I feel Petrucci has such a big control on the production in many ways including the drum sound, the bass sound as well.

[red barchetta]

The drum sound on DT12 didn't bother me, but I get why a lot of people hated it. That's, of course not a Mangini fault, but I agree both could be much better mixed on the albums.

Isn't it the drummer's job to make job he likes the sound of his instrument on the album?

If you read Mangini's comments on his FB posts around the time TA was released (where people wrote their complaints about his drum sound), he basically says that the sound they get when recording is amazing, but then they have to mix tons of other tracks and the sound changes (that's what he says). I even have screen shots from those commens, I could transcribe some when I get home.

It isn't Mike's or his drum gear's issue, it's in the mixing proccess where they manipulate the sound and, to be honest, JP isn't exactly the best when it comes to getting the best drum mix sound with whoever is mixing. When Portnoy was in the band, he was so involved with the proccess, he made sure he was always turned waaay high and had a lot of say on his final sound, vs Mangini who doesn't have it, because JP's opinion is the one that matters, and he's still kinda the new guy.

There was also a video from his instructional DVD, The Grid, where he talks about his DT setup (at the same time DT12 was recorded), and actually says his snare sound and tuning for that album was dialed by Petrucci, Chycki and his drum tech Eric to fit the music better. Again, not his fault. Even though I think he could make his opinion a bit more present.
I wish I could link the video, but it was taken down from YT 

What you say about the drum sound changing after the mix is very accurate. I have done some recordings in my young time and sometimes we had a great sound but putting all the different tracks together, we were always losing some quality if we wanted to put more and more tracks with the material we had.
TA Is so huge that even a great studio work with engeneers could not quite allow the sound they had at first.

[Prog Snob]

The drum sound on DT12 didn't bother me, but I get why a lot of people hated it. That's, of course not a Mangini fault, but I agree both could be much better mixed on the albums.

Isn't it the drummer's job to make job he likes the sound of his instrument on the album?

If you read Mangini's comments on his FB posts around the time TA was released (where people wrote their complaints about his drum sound), he basically says that the sound they get when recording is amazing, but then they have to mix tons of other tracks and the sound changes (that's what he says). I even have screen shots from those commens, I could transcribe some when I get home.

It isn't Mike's or his drum gear's issue, it's in the mixing proccess where they manipulate the sound and, to be honest, JP isn't exactly the best when it comes to getting the best drum mix sound with whoever is mixing. When Portnoy was in the band, he was so involved with the proccess, he made sure he was always turned waaay high and had a lot of say on his final sound, vs Mangini who doesn't have it, because JP's opinion is the one that matters, and he's still kinda the new guy.

There was also a video from his instructional DVD, The Grid, where he talks about his DT setup (at the same time DT12 was recorded), and actually says his snare sound and tuning for that album was dialed by Petrucci, Chycki and his drum tech Eric to fit the music better. Again, not his fault. Even though I think he could make his opinion a bit more present.
I wish I could link the video, but it was taken down from YT 

You're right. It's definitely on the producer to make sure the sound is right. Bad production will make anything sound like shit and vice versa.

[gzarruk]

What you say about the drum sound changing after the mix is very accurate. I have done some recordings in my young time and sometimes we had a great sound but putting all the different tracks together, we were always losing some quality if we wanted to put more and more tracks with the material we had.
TA Is so huge that even a great studio work with engeneers could not quite allow the sound they had at first.

That's what Mike has been saying over and over again to fans on his fb page. I took screen shots from the period after TGOM was released, before TA came out, this is one, word by word:

"I wish you could hear my current drum only stems before the mix process. You'd just die with happiness. Our guy Rich gave me the greatest sound you couldn't even imagine. Things change when you mix in hundreds of other tracks, etc. I'd have to be in a trio for you to hear it like I do, I think. He has an impossible task of trying to get everyone and everything heard and has to make choices to make it work like a chef who makes a lasagna a certain way."

Words straight from Mangini. I'm not making this up, I have the screen shot and I can PM it to you, if anyone wants to see it 

You're right. It's definitely on the producer to make sure the sound is right. Bad production will make anything sound like shit and vice versa.

Mike uses the highest line of Pear drums, Zildjian cymbals, Remo heads and Shure mikes, so nothing's wrong with his gear. He's also a master of dynamics and different styles of playing, so it all points to the producer and mixer. That's why I started a "who would you choose to co-produce the next DT album?" thread, commenting on these things.

Nothing against JP and Rich Chycki, I just think they should get someone else on the production, so they can make everyone sound better

[Prog Snob]

Mike uses the highest line of Pear drums, Zildjian cymbals, Remo heads and Shure mikes, so nothing's wrong with his gear. He's also a master of dynamics and different styles of playing, so it all points to the producer and mixer. That's why I started a "who would you choose to co-produce the next DT album?" thread, commenting on these things.

Nothing against JP and Rich Chycki, I just think they should get someone else on the production, so they can make everyone sound better

I don't disagree with that. I don't see that happening anymore, but it would be nice for them to bring someone in to polish it up once they're done. Maybe get some pointers from Kevin Shirley.

[Adami]

I am a drummer of 19 years. Having the best gear in the world doesn't make it sound good. Trust me. So the assumption that he uses good gear and is a good drummer, therefore has amazing tone is just not a good assumption. He may have the tone that he finds perfect, but that doesn't mean everyone else thinks it's great. The sound on ADTOE sounds pretty close to his natural drum sound.

[red barchetta]

What you say about the drum sound changing after the mix is very accurate. I have done some recordings in my young time and sometimes we had a great sound but putting all the different tracks together, we were always losing some quality if we wanted to put more and more tracks with the material we had.
TA Is so huge that even a great studio work with engeneers could not quite allow the sound they had at first.

That's what Mike has been saying over and over again to fans on his fb page. I took screen shots from the period after TGOM was released, before TA came out, this is one, word by word:

"I wish you could hear my current drum only stems before the mix process. You'd just die with happiness. Our guy Rich gave me the greatest sound you couldn't even imagine. Things change when you mix in hundreds of other tracks, etc. I'd have to be in a trio for you to hear it like I do, I think. He has an impossible task of trying to get everyone and everything heard and has to make choices to make it work like a chef who makes a lasagna a certain way."

Words straight from Mangini. I'm not making this up, I have the screen shot and I can PM it to you, if anyone wants to see it 

You're right. It's definitely on the producer to make sure the sound is right. Bad production will make anything sound like shit and vice versa.

Mike uses the highest line of Pear drums, Zildjian cymbals, Remo heads and Shure mikes, so nothing's wrong with his gear. He's also a master of dynamics and different styles of playing, so it all points to the producer and mixer. That's why I started a "who would you choose to co-produce the next DT album?" thread, commenting on these things.

Nothing against JP and Rich Chycki, I just think they should get someone else on the production, so they can make everyone sound better

No worries, I believe you. I did not know it was possible with the kind of equipment they have. It's like a F1 car. They bend the elastic as much as they can to be the closest of perfection but it's at the limit of the mechanic. Don't know if you get my drift.

[rumborak]

Frankly, I think DT has been having exactly the sound they wanted on the last three albums. I just don't find it believable that after 30 years in the music business, JP doesn't know how to get the sound he wants.

[King Postwhore]

I agree with Rumbo.

[gzarruk]

Frankly, I think DT has been having exactly the sound they wanted on the last three albums. I just don't find it believable that after 30 years in the music business, JP doesn't know how to get the sound he wants.

That's because he's an empirical producer. Nothing wrong with that, but there's people with much more experience/knowledge who could make a better job with the sound in general.

[Prog Snob]

Frankly, I think DT has been having exactly the sound they wanted on the last three albums. I just don't find it believable that after 30 years in the music business, JP doesn't know how to get the sound he wants.

That's because he's an empirical producer. Nothing wrong with that, but there's people with much more experience/knowledge who could make a better job with the sound in general.

I agree. Some people have a better ear for things.

[jsbru]

Many people don't lile the album too much, but DT12 had GREAT drum/bass moments. Their involvement in the writing proccess was notorious.

I'm a bassist and a drummer and, I think, the musical chemistry between Mangini/Myung is better than Portnoy/Myung ever was, specially during the last few albums.

DT12 is the best JM's bass has sounded (both writing-wise, and in the mix) since the early days.  It went back to buried in TA.  I really like prog rock where the bass stands out.

[devieira73]

This and I think it's very obvious that the more JM is involved in the writing process, the more his bass lines are detached from rhythm guitar parts and, consequently, more interesting. I think this also contribuites to our perception that his bass is low in the mix. Anyway, to me, JM is very audible from WDaDU to 8vm (not so much on Scenes and 6D), on ADToE and DT12.

[Fritzinger]

So Mangini says, his drums actually sound fine but once the other instruments get into the mix, its impossible to maintain that good sound?
How come a huge Progmetal band like DT can't manage that, but a newcomer Progmetal band like Haken had better drum sounds than DT12 on every of their albums since their DEBUT?

[red barchetta]

So Mangini says, his drums actually sound fine but once the other instruments get into the mix, its impossible to maintain that good sound?
How come a huge Progmetal band like DT can't manage that, but a newcomer Progmetal band like Haken had better drum sounds than DT12 on every of their albums since their DEBUT?

Good question!

[Adami]

So Mangini says, his drums actually sound fine but once the other instruments get into the mix, its impossible to maintain that good sound?
How come a huge Progmetal band like DT can't manage that, but a newcomer Progmetal band like Haken had better drum sounds than DT12 on every of their albums since their DEBUT?

I used to run a studio. It's honestly a mindset that bands tend to have early on in their career. How an instrument sounds on its own is just not important. I noticed the problem more so with guitarists, where they made sure their tone was amazing by itself, but once it was mixed with the drums/bass/whatever else, just killed the mix, but they didn't care. They'd rather me turn down the other instruments.

DT, on ADTOE and DT12 seem to have come at it from a similar perspective. Find what sounds good on its own and just hope it sounds good mixed, but ....it didn't.

[rumborak]

You can't even fault them for it, or any musician. The problem is, when you sit at home and futz around with your instrument sound, you make sure it sound round, and has a lot of body. But, what you are designing is a solo sound, i.e. as if you were playing all alone on the record.
Once the other instruments come in, your guitar sound's bottom end totally gets in the way of the bass.  So, the solution is to EQ the hell out of the guitar to confine it to the frequency space it belongs in the mix.

That said, that is of course a beginner's problem, and doesn't apply to DT, who have been recording for 30 years.
My pet theory what the real problem is that there is no overall orchestration going on anymore, i.e. there is nobody saying "too many instruments are playing; MM, play something less busy, JP, maybe you shouldn't do anything at all in this section". Kevin Moore of all people once made a comment regarding that towards modern DT, that he thought everybody in the band was just playing their own thing, with little communication.
So, with everybody playing at all times, you can't ever give any of the instruments body because they will clash, and thus are forced to limit all of them to very narrow confines in the spectrum. I think that is one of the reasons why DT's late albums have been pretty compressed (which is another way of dealing with the problem), and the drum and bass sounds are very thin. It's all coping mechanisms to deal with a crowded frequency space.

[Architeuthis]

Well said Rumbo!  However, the last three DT albums sound fine to my ears.  TA is very well mixed and the instruments breathe well throughout imho. I would like to see a future album featuring Myung's bass playing alot more. Mike Lepond's (bass player from SX) solo album Silent Assassins is a perfect example of that. The bass is prolific without sacrificing the heavy rhythm guitars..