Who is DT's greatest lyricist ever in your opinion?

[Train of Naught]

You ungrateful fool!

[pcs90]

As for why people seem to hate the lyrics of Never Enough, I really don't know, to be honest I prefer that song lyrically to most of the others MP has written...

[KevShmev]

Im curious why do people hate Never Enough so much? I mean, its not poetic or something, but what makes it stand out as being so embarrassing compared to other songs?

The lyrics are too crybaby "woah is me"-ish.  The subject matter itself would have been fine had he gone the clever route with them, but he went with the "let's beat them over the head with the meaning" route, and they just come off as really poor.  I mean, talking about neglecting your kids and wife all for the fans?  It comes off like he thinks he's a saint or something.  His earlier lyrics were good, especially The Mirror and A Change of Seasons, when he sounded far less angry.  I just think at some point he became so jaded that his lyrics became the outlet for whatever anger he had inside him (Never Enough about fans, Honor Thy Father about his step-dad, etc.), which is probably not that unusual.  But hey, he was not alone when it came to lyrics and quality.  JP's haven't been nearly as good the last 10-12 years as they were early on either...and I doubt The Astonishing is going to be the big rebound in that regard.

[Nomaniac]

I chose James Labrie. I seem to have the most emotional connection with his words. Blind Faith, Disappear, Vacant, and Sacrificed Sons alone all hit me in a way that no other Dream Theater lyrics besides maybe A Change of Seasons come close to matching.

It seems that a lot of the time singers have a more emotional connection with their own lyrics than the lyrics of others, which makes perfect sense. That may be why the songs are so heartfelt in vocal delivery, because it comes from his own heart . . . the singers I've worked with I always encourage to pitch in their own ideas as well even if they're reluctant, because I know that makes it even better

[Ilovethatfeelingman]

K.M.

OBVIOUSLY

[RaasMah]

Im curious why do people hate Never Enough so much? I mean, its not poetic or something, but what makes it stand out as being so embarrassing compared to other songs?

The lyrics are too crybaby "woah is me"-ish.  The subject matter itself would have been fine had he gone the clever route with them, but he went with the "let's beat them over the head with the meaning" route, and they just come off as really poor.  I mean, talking about neglecting your kids and wife all for the fans?  It comes off like he thinks he's a saint or something.  His earlier lyrics were good, especially The Mirror and A Change of Seasons, when he sounded far less angry.  I just think at some point he became so jaded that his lyrics became the outlet for whatever anger he had inside him (Never Enough about fans, Honor Thy Father about his step-dad, etc.), which is probably not that unusual.  But hey, he was not alone when it came to lyrics and quality.  JP's haven't been nearly as good the last 10-12 years as they were early on either...and I doubt The Astonishing is going to be the big rebound in that regard.

Touring for a year an a half around the world can definitely feel like neglecting. And he really was the one with the strongest connection to the fans, so I can understand his anger for what he think is ungrateful. But I see where youre coming from, I just dont think that as lyrics to a song they are so bad.

I dont know if its directly related to MP leaving, but I really feel they raised their lyrics level in the last 2 albums compared to the previous 2. I find DT12 lyrics pretty solid all around, and ADTOE has some pretty good ones too, if youre willing to ignore BMUBMD

[Stadler]

For the life of me, I do not get the idolatry around Myung's lyrics.  Good, yes.  Sometimes very good, yes.  Great?  Not seeing it.  I do see flashes of greatness from Kevin Moore, but it's not like after Myung and Moore it turns into... "Torpedo Girl".   I think if anything, the band suffers for having just one main lyricist; I think the songs benefit from contrast, but it's not like Petrucci is pretending to be "Steel Panther" or anything.  There are far worse lyrics, even in the prog-metal realm, than what JP has put on record over the last five or ten years. 

[mikeyd23]

JP

[porcacultor]

Voted LaBrie for the canadian rap.

OK, for his general contributions. This man.

[bosk1]

Petrucci. Given that he's written the most, he's had the most opportunityies, but I also think he has a very high hit rate. I seem to connect with and appreciate them more than the rest.

That's kinda where I am as well.  Take Away My Pain is one that immediately stands out to me, but there are lots of others as well.  And I like that he is very versatile and diverse in terms of his lyrical style.  He can be very poetic and symbolic at times, then go very academic, then go very literal, depending on the topic and how he chooses to approach it.

After JP, hard to say who I would pick next.  Probably either KM or James.  Both have had some really nice ones, and some misses as well.  JM is close behind them.  MP would be next (nothing wrong with most of his, but I just don't rate his lyrics as high).  I don't really care for the lyrics of Afterlife, so Charlie would be last.  That being said, I must acknowledge that those lyrics were written a LONG time ago, and although I had some issues with the O3 story that he did with his solo project awhile ago, there were a lot of cool things going on lyrically.

[Prog Snob]

I choose JP. It's hard to choose KM because one can't gauge whether or not his writing would have continuously been great. JP's lyrics have always been my favorite though. He tackles different topics and when he does write lyrics, we know he researches the shit out of a topic also. He has that OCD quality when it comes to his lyrics, as well as his playing.

[Rodni Demental]

I like the variety. They all have a their own take on writing lyrics and it creates more diversity in the songs. But really, I think JP is pretty much the main guy and responsible for more than half of my favourite DT songs. But then, I'll give some regocnition for MP as I actually found his lyrics to be more consistent. Also MP seems to go for the more traditional lyrical approach, like evoking certain emotions through personal statements rather than trying to tell a story kind of thing.

[Mebert78]

Not sure if anyone pointed this out, but we had a similar thread in 2012 and Kevin Moore was the top choice, although the margin is much smaller this time: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=34522.0.

[Nomaniac]

Not sure if anyone pointed this out, but we had a similar thread in 2012 and Kevin Moore was the top choice, although the margin is much smaller this time: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=34522.0.

Oh I'm sorry about that . . . Only been here a week so I've been making mistakes like that

[Nomaniac]

Thank you for all the responses guys . . . again awesome to hear everyone's thoughts on this!!!

[wolven74]

The top three are: John Myung, John Petrucci, and Mike Portnoy. Followed by Kevin Moore.

[Mark Levinson Jr.]

Kevin Moore is in the lead, and he only wrote 8 1/2 songs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Moore

[wolven74]

John Myung followed closely by Kevin Moore. KM would be my favorite but there's only one song of his that has truly resonated with me, lyrically; that being Surrounded. While JM's lyrics for Learning to Live, Metropolis pt 1, Trial of Tears and so on have all been beautifully thought provoking.

[CharlesPL]

John Myung Metropolis pt 1

?

[Prog Snob]

John Myung Metropolis pt 1

?

Maybe he meant Lifting Shadows. Auto-correct does that sometimes.   

[Train of Naught]

 

John Myung Metropolis pt 1

?

[As I Am]

Gotta be Moore #1, Myung #2 and then Ports #3. I would say James is a distant 4th, while JP is somewhere off the map (aside from a few real good ones - see Endless Sacrifice as an example)

[Outcrier]

Kevin Moore is in the lead, and he only wrote 8 1/2 songs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Moore

I guess people are going about the quality, not quantity.

[Peter Mc]

I have to go with Petrucci just as he is the main guy and has written so many songs, many of which have great lyrics, some of which don't.  Myung is really my favourite based mainly on Learning To Live, Trial Of Tears and Lifting Shadows Off A Dream but he only does one song, at most, per album so if we relied on Myung there wouldn't be too many DT albums.  I am a fan of La Brie vocally and will always defend him in that regard but not a fan of his lyrics.  Also never been a major fan of Kevin Moore's lyrics aside from Space Dye Vest, which I love.  Portnoy's lyrics are functional rather than inspired apart from A Change Of Seasons.  He does lose major points for Never Enough which is, in my opinion, far and away the worst song DT have ever done.  No problem with MP being annoyed with ungrateful fans especially after all he did for them but the song was, as someone else put it, "way too cry-baby".  Tool did a song called Hooker With a Penis which was about a similar issue and MJK said it so much better "fuck off and buy our new record" rather than MP's version which was more along the lines of "you're hurting my feelings and if you carry on I may pack it all in".  That may well be how Mike felt, and I don't blame him, lots of DT fans are dicks, I just don't want to hear a song about it.  Plus it's a terrible song melodically anyway.

[SuperTaco]

There just had to be the one guy that voted Charlie, even in the old thread

I voted Petrucci because of the sheer amount of lyrics he has written, and very strong hit/miss ratio. There are very few songs written by JP that I don't like.

If I were to vote quality over quantity, Moore would win, but I cannot discount the vast variety of lyrics that JP wrote. It's one thing to write lyrics on three albums. It's a whole different ballpark to write lyrics for 13+ albums and still be great.

[AboutToCrash]

Okay, Who voted for Charlie Dominici and his 1 and a half contributions? 

[FsF]

Let's not forget that Big Kev has 7 albums worth of OSI and Chroma Key lyrics to judge him by. Folk could be using some of those to help come to the correct (Kevin  = da best) judgement.