Who is DT's greatest lyricist ever in your opinion?

[Nomaniac]

I was wondering what your guy's opinion on this is . . .

Who - of all the people who have written lyrics for DT - has done the best work?

I included everyone (excluding Desmond Child) who has ever written lyrics for the band.

Also how important are the lyrics for you, with a band that carries themselves as a more musically-oriented band?

I may be the only one interested in this poll since I am not yet a musician, but I am a lyricist who has worked with several bands (I know, I know . . . pick up an instrument for god's sake  )

Just seeing what everyone's thoughts are. I'm definitely more obsessed with DT's lyrics than others 

(btw I picked Myung. He may not write a lot, but when he does it's just fantastic! All the others are great as well).

[LCArenas]

Myung. Learning to Live has in my opinion the best lyrics in a DT song. Moore was great, too.

[Nomaniac]

Myung. Learning to Live has in my opinion the best lyrics in a DT song. Moore was great, too.

Exactly my opinion as well! Moore is probably my second favorite, and Learning to Live are my favorite DT lyrics . . . go figure

[jsbru]

My guess is that this poll will end up with Kevin Moore winning by a long shot, but we'll have to see.  He's my choice.  Although if I had to pick a second choice, it would have to be Myung.

Unfortunately, neither frequently write lyrics anymore for DT.

I also happen to think Moore is an incredible songwriter.  It's hard to narrow down exactly what parts of what songs each individual actually came up with, but from interviews and bootleg album covers, it seems like Moore was fond of writing lead vocal melodies--and I think these were by far the strongest during the I&W-Awake era.  I liked his atmospheric synth sounds, as they added more mystery and dreaminess to the music.

It starts with WDADU...Only a Matter of Time is my favorite song from that album, and maybe a top 20 overall--and the lyrics are excellent.  Also, Surrounded is one of my favorites: songs and lyrics.

I think it would have been awesome to see DT continue on with a few more Space-Dye Vest-type songs in the mix, but I doubt anything would have kept Kevin on board at that point.  The musical direction he wanted to go in was just to far removed from what DT could accomplish.  I don't think he was open to compromise or a melding of styles, but I kind of wish he could have been.

[pcs90]

Myung, though I do really like most of the others, so it's a hard choice.

As far as how important the lyrics are, normally with music I don't really pay attention to them, but for the most part I really enjoy DT's lyrics so I put a lot more thought into them. Music is still first though.

[BlobVanDam]

Petrucci. Given that he's written the most, he's had the most opportunityies, but I also think he has a very high hit rate. I seem to connect with and appreciate them more than the rest.

Although KM and JM haven't written so many and have written good ones, I still feel some of their songs suffer too greatly for their lyrics (most notably LTL, OAMOT and Lie).

[pcs90]

I think it would have been awesome to see DT continue on with a few more Space-Dye Vest-type songs in the mix, but I doubt anything would have kept Kevin on board at that point.  The musical direction he wanted to go in was just to far removed from what DT could accomplish.  I don't think he was open to compromise or a melding of styles, but I kind of wish he could have been.

I have to agree here. The atmosphere SDV creates is so unique, and it is the best use of sampling in a song I have ever heard.

[Nomaniac]

Great thoughts guys! Overall I would have to agree that music is the most important thing (especially in the world of prog) . . . maybe some simpler music you could argue melody and voice are most important . . . but for the main part for me I just believe that lyrics are meant to translate into words the emotion captured by the music (sorry for sounding like a hippie  ).

Kevin Moore was definitely the ultimate songwriter, opposed to the ultimate musician that Jordan Rudess is. Too bad we don't have more songs of his but just the way it had to be 

And yeah Petrucci is a great writer! Heck, all of them are - I personally think, being such amazing musicians, that their lyrical talent gets sometimes overlooked . . .

[Train of Naught]

Moore, my favorite lyrics ever (well, at least on a DT song) are Space-Dye Vest!

[CharlesPL]

JMX

[RoeDent]

John Myung. He's written very few DT lyrics, but several of them are all-time DT classics. Learning to Live, Lifting Shadows off a Dream, Trial of Tears and Breaking All Illusions (a co-write, but it's obvious which lyrics are his, judging by the other songs).

[?]

Kevin Moore is one of my all-time favorite lyricists, both in and out of DT.

I like JMX's lyrics as well, but he's written so few of them that it's difficult to compare him to the other lyricists in the band. If he wrote a lot more, there might be more misses along the way or at least it could get a little samey, because the themes he tends to write about are pretty similar.

[Enigmachine]

I picked Petrucci considering the workload that he has to take every single album and as Blob said, he still has a relatively high hit-to-miss ratio.

[MirrorMask]

I voted for Kevin Moore, but early Petrucci (Metropolis, Voices) comes a close second.

Also how important are the lyrics for you, with a band that carries themselves as a more musically-oriented band?

Very important, even in DT where the focus is mainly on music. You say you're an actual lyricist, well, I'm a wannabe singer - always liked singings, took singing lessons for some years and had some fun at the evenings organized by my music school, I actually sang one evening I Walk Beside You and rehearsed Vacant with my teacher... so the first thing I look for in a band is how the song is sung, and then what the lyrics are about.

Granted, the music makes or kills the song, The Apparition from Iron Maiden has very nice and interesting lyrics that can't save the song, and classic songs would be loved even if they'd talk about bullshit, but then again... true masterpieces are HELPED by lyrics as well, some cringeworthy lyrics could hinder the overall enjoyment of a song. Wish you were here would still be universally acclaimed if, rather than a tribute to Syd Barret, would be a cheesy and uninspired song about a hooker that has left the motel after being paid for her services? If Metropolis had stupid lyrics wouldn't we all saying in polls "Yeah, love the song, but damn, those lyrics..." like I read so many times about The Count of Tuscany? Lyrics don't make a song but if they're great they add further value to a great musical idea, and so to me they're very important. I always want to know what the lyrics are about with my favorite songs and bands.

[JediKnight1969]

...how important are the lyrics for you... ?

"Take me down
To the paradise city
Where the grass is green
And the girls are pretty
Oh, won't you please take me home."

(Sir Axl Rose - Contemporary Author)

[JediKnight1969]

It's good to have nice lyrics, but at the end, it's all about the melody.

[Eldomm]

Kevin Moore.
If not for other reason, for having written Only a Matter of Time...

[425]

I love the lyrics to OAMOT. And PMU, and Surrounded, and Wait for Sleep. But I'm less of a fan of KM's Awake lyrics. I think I'm going to have to vote for John Myung, because he's also written some of my favorite DT lyrics and hasn't written anything I find as middling as Lie.

Early Petrucci could easily be a winner as well, but the whole body of Petrucci's work doesn't stand up to Myung's work on his few songs.

[Agalsed]

I voted Petrucci. It's close between him and Moore for me. I originally voted Moore and took it back. Mostly it is Petrucci's awake lyrics that get me. A mind beside itself, Scarred, Innocence Faded, they are all great. He also just has a lot more to go off of. After SDOIT, I don't find as much in his lyrics but, before that, his stuff is incredible. Metroplis, Another Day, Under a Glass Moon. I know this is an unpopular opinion but I also love Take away my Pain. So it's got to be Petrucci.

Like I said, it is difficult with Kevin Moore. Space Dye Vest might have some of my favorite lyrics of any DT song, but, overall, I think I've got to go with Petrucci.

[Nomaniac]

Thanks for sharing your opinions guys, I really enjoyed hearing your thoughts!!! 

Yeah I think a trend here is that early DT has the best lyrics. And I would have to agree that they did take a different direction with newer albums. I still find myself inspired the most by their earlier lyrics, but I don't think they have gotten worse but have gone from a more poetic direction to a different direction, if you understand what I mean 

And about lyrics being important. Like I said I help with lyrics for bands (not professionally but as something I enjoy) but even I wouldn't go as far to say that the lyrics are the most important. I think lyrics really define a song for me and make it what it is for me, but I'd rather have good music with bad lyrics than the other way around  . I really love good lyrics and pay attention more than others, and everyone is different in that regard, but still think what makes a song is the whole package! Thank you to those who shared their opinion on that, it was really enlightening 

One thing for sure . . . for such a music-oriented band, it's amazing how damn good Dream Theater lyrics are!!!

[Nomaniac]

Oh and welcome to the forums Agalsed 

[pcs90]

I don't know, I feel like the lyrics on the last 2 albums are great and are in many cases close or equal to the older songs people tend to mention.
Some of that may have to do with the musical arrangements and melodies as well. For example the last section of IT is one of my favorite DT moments of all time. If you look at the lyrics on their own, they're not really that unique, but put them with the music and the way James sings them and that IMO is completely amazing.
Some of the older stuff could just be read as a poem and you don't even need the music. So I guess it just depends on how you look at it.

[RaasMah]

Pertucci for me, so much inspirational songs, from their beginning through their latest, like IT, which I think is brilliant. JM is close second, LTL and BAI are among DTs best imo. KM close after him.

Portnoy is my least favorite, but even he had some great ones. In fact, DT lyrics is one of the thing that got me really connected to the band in general. When I first heard about them, aside from the crazy instrumentals, their lyrics really hooked me up. I always found them more thoughtful then other bands I knew.

[Agalsed]

Oh and welcome to the forums Agalsed 

Thanks so much! I'm excited to talk with all you guys. I've been a huge fan for forever and I'm in the middle of an intense DT obsession, so starting up on the forums is a lot of fun.

[MajorBoobage]

Petrucci. Given that he's written the most, he's had the most opportunityies, but I also think he has a very high hit rate. I seem to connect with and appreciate them more than the rest.

Although KM and JM haven't written so many and have written good ones, I still feel some of their songs suffer too greatly for their lyrics (most notably LTL, OAMOT and Lie).

[Nomaniac]

I don't know, I feel like the lyrics on the last 2 albums are great and are in many cases close or equal to the older songs people tend to mention.
Some of that may have to do with the musical arrangements and melodies as well. For example the last section of IT is one of my favorite DT moments of all time. If you look at the lyrics on their own, they're not really that unique, but put them with the music and the way James sings them and that IMO is completely amazing.
Some of the older stuff could just be read as a poem and you don't even need the music. So I guess it just depends on how you look at it.

Agree with everything you said! Like I said, I don't think it got worse, but more of a new direction . . . less poetic and more storytelling is how I see it - some may differ. Like you said the older stuff do seem more like poetry put to music 

[Nomaniac]

Oh and welcome to the forums Agalsed 

Thanks so much! I'm excited to talk with all you guys. I've been a huge fan for forever and I'm in the middle of an intense DT obsession, so starting up on the forums is a lot of fun.

Just joined a week ago . . . believe you'll have fun on the wacky forums

[Nomaniac]

Keep 'em coming guys, love hearing your thoughts!!!

[KevShmev]

Moore - no duds, and the lyrics in Surrounded are some of the best in any DT song

Petrucci - his best ones (Voices, for example) are as good as any Moore ever did with the band, but he does get docked a tad for some of his poor ones on the more recent albums from the last 10 years

Myung - his are always good, but he just has so few

Portnoy - he did a good job early on (up until SFAM), but his later ones had no imagination to them whatsoever, and Never Enough is just embarrassing

LaBrie - his few contributions never made me think much, either good or bad

[mrrct]

I would put Moore first, then Myung, then Petrucci, Portnoy, and LaBrie.  Petrucci and Portnoy have written plenty of good lyrics, but with Moore leaving and Myung's contributions being less and less over the years, I'd say that they were overexposed having to contribute too much or the creative juices just dried up.

[RaasMah]

Moore - no duds, and the lyrics in Surrounded are some of the best in any DT song

Petrucci - his best ones (Voices, for example) are as good as any Moore ever did with the band, but he does get docked a tad for some of his poor ones on the more recent albums from the last 10 years

Myung - his are always good, but he just has so few

Portnoy - he did a good job early on (up until SFAM), but his later ones had no imagination to them whatsoever, and Never Enough is just embarrassing

LaBrie - his few contributions never made me think much, either good or bad

Im curious why do people hate Never Enough so much? I mean, its not poetic or something, but what makes it stand out as being so embarrassing compared to other songs?

[Train of Naught]

To people who don't really bother with lyrics it doesn't matter in the slightest, for me it's all about vocal melodies.

[MirrorMask]

Im curious why do people hate Never Enough so much? I mean, its not poetic or something, but what makes it stand out as being so embarrassing compared to other songs?

Personally, I wouldn't know; I don't find the lyrics bad, maybe the second verse is a bit too specific while the first is more generic making the song more relatable to anyone who was in a "never enough" situation, but aside from that I found nothing wrong with those lyrics, nor I'm personally offended by them since I'm not the kind of fan MP complained about. Forget for a seocnd about the actual subject matter, I find it a nice venting song for those who ever felt that way, be it with the boss at work or in a difficult relationship.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I chose James Labrie. I seem to have the most emotional connection with his words. Blind Faith, Disappear, Vacant, and Sacrificed Sons alone all hit me in a way that no other Dream Theater lyrics besides maybe A Change of Seasons come close to matching.

[Kotowboy]

I chose James Labrie. I seem to have the most emotional connection with his words. Blind Faith, Disappear, Vacant, and Sacrificed Sons alone all hit me in a way that no other Dream Theater lyrics besides maybe A Change of Seasons come close to matching.

Canadian Rap.


[/thread]