The Three Least Special DT Albums

[pdurbin22]

I always felt like there was something truly special, exciting or unique about every DT album - with the exception of Systematic Chaos, Black Clouds & Silver Linings and the self-titled. Does anyone else agree? Here's my reasoning:

WDADU - Almost exempt because it was an indie recording on a shoestring budget and got next to no recognition when released.  But it's still their first album so that alone makes it special.

I&W - Pretty obvious here. Introduced the world to the band and opened the floodgates to their enduring career.

AWAKE - Anxiously awaited follow-up to their breakthrough and was anything but I&W Part 2. Richer production, heavier & slightly modernized sound, darker themes. Masterpiece.

FII - The 'commercial' album so to speak, but has a wholly unique sound that you can't really compare to any other release, and is a great example of the band streamlining some of their epic tendencies. 

SFAM - The most epic prog-rock concept album of the millennium.

SDOIT - Sprawling double-disc with an 8-part song cycle comprising the entire Disc 2. Explored heavier material and other newer sonic territories on Disc 1.

ToT - The band's first all-out "metal album." Not exactly a classic in my opinion, but it was indeed a different approach and was pretty badass.

8V - Not a concept album per se, but nevertheless a unique concept playing around the number 8 and full-circle concept. Also ended a four-album end-to-start flow which was pretty cool.

ADTOE - First album without Portnoy. Would they pull it off? They did, and even regained some of their "classic sound" in the process. 


With Systematic Chaos, nothing new was explored. There was an epic, some metal stuff, some proggy-stuff, and it's a decent album overall, but I get the sense after the fantastic "Score" tour the band said 'where do we go from here?' and never really found a great answer.  Portnoy himself said the only requirement for the album was to have "balls."  They had already done that with Train of Thought.

Black Clouds & Silver Linings is more of the same. Nothing really new explored yet again.  A fun listen with some great moments, but that's it.

Self-titled is a very good album in general that continued the band's more "classic-sounding" approach started with ADTOE, but it felt like time to shake things up a bit and try something groundbreaking, which they didn't.

The upcoming 13th album has me very excited that we'll get something "special" again, based on the extra time the band has taken and what we've seen so far. 

[Madman Shepherd]

This is a pretty interesting topic.  My very first thought was Systematic Chaos.  It should be said that this is one of my two favorite albums (along with ADTOE) but coming off of their 20th anniversary, I was thinking they were going to top themselves.  What they ended up doing was coming up with one of their most consistently awesome albums with no special gimmick. 

This was around the time I started to realize that its unreasonable to expect that every album tops the next or every gimmick tops the next.  That thinking is like the music version of No Child Left behind. 

Now, I am more than willing to settle for consistently awesome albums. 

As for the original question, I think you are spot on with your assessment.  I would *almost* be inclined to add ToT because while it was a different mood, it was still just a 7 track album filled with excellent music.  Same with 8V (except it was 8 tracks). 

[Outcrier]

I agree with your three choices (DT12, SC and BCSL). WDADU could be in there as well.

[pcs90]

If I had to pick 3 albums (and truthfully the only one I really think deserves to be there is Systematic Chaos), they would probably be SC, BCSL and either TOT or WDADU.

Then again it really depends on what you define as "special"...doesn't have to be good. For example, SC and BCSL could be special for having some of MP's absolute worst vocal and musical ideas, and for having overall really cheesy lyrics on many of the songs.

[Crow]

yeah i'd pretty much agree, three of my bottom four albums anyways 

[Train of Naught]

It's hard to pick even 1 album that's not unique in some way, let alone 3. I decided to strike off the ones that are definite uniques:

WDADU: Totally different singer that changes the vibe of the whole album, also seemingly more lead keyboard (not sure if this is universally believed).

I&W: Not sure how to explain this, it just has a unique sound compared to the others that I can't explain

Awake: First real mark of heaviness in Dream Theater's music, but what really made this unique was LaBrie's more angry vocals, they took the Dream out of Dream Theater.

SDOIT & SFAM: These are obvious, SFAM is the first album based entirely on a concept, telling a story, not just music. SDOIT ia the first double disced album, and is the mark for their longest song to date.

TOT: easily their heaviest album, focusing (solely) on the metal side of the band, this is easily one of the most unique ones.

BC&SL: Mainly the tracklist, which contains of six songs, and has by far the highest average song length(after SDOIT Thank you Parama, you genius.)

DT12: First and only album in coorporation with Berkley (not completely sure about this).



So that leaves ADTOE, FII, SC,  and Octavarium, I'll drop off 8VM off of those.

[Crow]

SDOIT has the longest average song length

[Train of Naught]

Cheap shot.

[TheCountOfNYC]

The only one that really comes to mind is Systematic Chaos. Every other album has something that makes it either a landmark album or a marker for where the band was at that point.

WDaDU- First album and only album with Charlie
IaW- Breakthrough album, first album with James, and one of their Big Four
Awake- One of their Big Four and last album with Kevin
FII- Commercial album and only album with Derek
SFaM- Concept album, first album with Jordan, and one of their Big Four
SDoIT- Double album and one of their Big Four
TOT- Their "metal" album
8VM- Quasi-concept album and 20th anniversary album
BC&SL- Last album with MP
ADToE- First album with MM on drums
DT12- First album with MM fully integrated into writing process

Systematic Chaos doesn't have anything like that to define it as a special release among their catalog.

[BlobVanDam]

I don't even know what least special means, but DT12 is the first to come to mind. Maybe SC would be next, but SC still has several elements in the lyrical writing and musical style that make it distinctly unique among their albums. Every other album has something about it that makes it "special" if you try hard enough.
But if I had to choose the least special? I don't know, it's really hard to see any relevance to "specialness". It's trivial.

[ToT-147]

Exactly.. What is "special"?.. That's the real and first question to answer the topic..

Completely disagree with SC not having nothing new explored.. They explored more in SC than in every other album, except maybe SDoIT and 8V, taking for granted that we're talking about albums only here, and not songs (otherwise, I could say a bunch of songs that are more experimental than SC, but the album they're in is not)..

But every album has something that makes it special.. This is not the case of the discography of most of bands I know, but somehow it doesn't happen with DT..

I must say though that BC&SL is their most "predictable", which is one of the reason why I like it so much (so this makes it special for me), and with DT12, the first thing I said to my brother when we finished to listen it for the first time was: how is that they always do something different?

[chaossystem]

1) Awake because it's a little bit of a let-down from I&W in that it doesn't have as much variety in the music.

2) Six Degrees because of it's inconsistency. Disc one has three songs that I really like, but I can't stand Disappear, and Misunderstood, mostly because of that awful-sounding ending. The "title" disc has some good parts, but other parts I just can't get into at all.

3) Octavarium, mostly because I think the title track is VASTLY over-rated. The first half just drags on WAY too long. I don't like IWBY or Never Enough at all, and other than TRoAE, the rest of the songs, although GOOD, are not GREAT. I like These Walls, and Panic Attack is okay, but the "fast" section in Sacrificed Sons distracts from the overall "theme" of the song, and kind of ruins it a little bit.

[54_diplomats]

SC, Black Clouds and DT12

[Vegvisir]

I'm surprised to see such disliking for DT12! I rank it as one of their TOP albums. The bigger picture and illumination theory are brilliant and beautiful.

I'd say least special to me are the ones I basically never listen to:
WDADU, SC, and Octavarium.

BCSL would hold the 4th spot.

[Train of Naught]

Least special does not necessarily make it the worst.

[vazquez]

I think the sequence Ocatavarium-SC-BC&SL are not special at all...

[arkdtmp]

1.A Dramatic Turn of Events
2.Dream Theater

These two mainly because the whole album felt too similar in song structure and sound.

[Rodni Demental]

I did expect a bit of a WDADU/SC/BC&SL bashing when I saw this thread. 

Personally, as much as I can understand that those aren't the most popular albums. Being pedantic, I couldn't say they aren't special. If anything they all have some very unique qualities that separate them from the rest, especially WDADU and SC.

To me, the least special would FII (too many average songs), ADTOE (nothing surprising) and, I guess 8vm (too many average songs). But I realise they still have unique qualities, especially 8vm. So.. I guess those are more my least favourite and so indirectly least special?

[BlacklistJones]

You could say that Systematic Chaos was special because it was their initial album with RoadRunner, which obviously led them on a very different and arguably unique path for a couple of albums. I think there were a lot of people that didn't know how to feel when they initially signed RR, so that could be one of the standout points of SC that makes it "special" - then again, it's my second least favorite which is followed by Black Clouds. So, in my world, the initial transition to RR was not special at all.

Those that did enjoy it however may consider this as a valid point though.

[ToT-147]

You could say that Systematic Chaos was special because it was their initial album with RoadRunner, which obviously led them on a very different and arguably unique path for a couple of albums. I think there were a lot of people that didn't know how to feel when they initially signed RR, so that could be one of the standout points of SC that makes it "special" - then again, it's my second least favorite which is followed by Black Clouds. So, in my world, the initial transition to RR was not special at all.

Those that did enjoy it however may consider this as a valid point though.

It might be a valid point for you, but that's not my case, and I'm among those who like those albums.. Especially BC&SL, but even when SC is less good than 8V, so is this one less good than ToT, so... I think the label had nothing to do with their music (with the exception of FII, of course).. But yeah, again, every album has something that makes it special..

[1neeto]

This is a hard question because every DT album is special in its own way. But I'll try, so here's my least special DT albums:

3. Octivarium - there is nothing much here that they haven't done before much better. It's not a bad album by any means, but it's definitely low in my replay list.
2. Systematic Chaos - They tried TOT 2.0 here, but it was more like TOT 1.1.5, but worse. ITPOE is great, as long as you don't pay attention to the lyrics. "Dark Master, I will fight for you". Really JP? What kind of metal pills did you take that MP asked about?
1. BC&SL - This is the definition of DT just going through the motions to try and get something released for the fans. There's a few (two) good songs, mainly ANTR, and COT, but even those two good songs pale to what they have done in the past. And ANTR is forever ruined because of MP's horrible "metal" growls "day after day and night after night" my god that's cringe worthy stuff right there. You can almost hear and feel the disconnect on that album. I'll also give a shout out to BOT because of JP's amazing solo work there. Other than that, it's their least special album IMO.

[Progmetty]

WDADU, FII & if I have to pick a third 8vm.

[Pebsie]

I have to agree with regards to DT and BCASL. Some very good songs (I'm actually of the opinion that Illumination Theory is - minus the filler orchestral piece - one of the best things they've ever done) but nothing that makes me feel like "YEAH! THIS is what I recommend!" Hell, in the case of DT, I feel as if some of the songs are even filler, sadly.

[wolfking]

SC, BC&SL, ADTOE

[metrojam]

DT12, DT12 and DT12!!.....so far ahead in the "least special DT record ever" race, that its worth all three choices!!

[Enigmachine]

DT12, DT12 and DT12!!.....so far ahead in the "least special DT record ever" race, that its worth all three choices!!

Special = / = Good, so I really doubt that this is a thread to put down albums you don't like (and I actually agree with the choice).

It's difficult to decide which three are the least distinctive as there is always some sort of contextual point that make any album worth mentioning and become distinct. I suppose my three are:

1. Dream Theater - I love this album. I think it's in the top half of their discography but to me, it always excelled based on the strength of the songwriting rather than being relentlessly experimental and varied like SDoIT. It just proves to me that not being distincive doesn't have to be inherently bad.

2. Systematic Chaos - This was probably the first DT album to not drastically change from the last. Most of the songs seem to have some sort of counterpart in purpose to a song from Octavarium, but SC kind of lacks the cohesion that it had. Of course there were deviations like TDEN, but songs like Forsaken and Prophets of War could've easily fit on 8vm.

3. Black Clouds and Silver Linings - Again, good album but apart from the few songs taking up a long time (which SDoIT had) and some of the heaviest moments (which too are few and far between to really be noteworthy enough), all that sets it apart from SC is the sense of melancholy that is sustained throughout.

[ToT-147]

Special = / = Good, so I really doubt that this is a thread to put down albums you don't like (and I actually agree with the choice).

2. Systematic Chaos - This was probably the last DT album to not drastically change from the last. Most of the songs seem to have some sort of counterpart in purpose to a song from Octavarium, but SC kind of lacks the cohesion that it had. Of course there were deviations like TDEN, but songs like Forsaken and Prophets of War could've easily fit on 8vm.

Special = / = Unpredictable..

Also, you are contradicting yourself by saying that SC is not special (or "least special" than the rest) and right after saying it's the last DT album to *whatever*.. <<It's the last album to>>... That makes it special..

OTOH, I fully disagree that it didn't drastically change from 8V.. It really did.. Maybe except for the songs you mentioned, but besides those, the album is quite unpredictable..

ITPoE's, TDEN and TMoLS more than anything (more than half of the album), but the whole album has that experimental and strange (uncanny) touch, unique and different from not only 8V but all the previous albums until then, and even different from the last three.. The songs' structures, the scales, the whole vibe is very distinctive, refreshingly dark and innovative... At least IMHO, which is, once more, far from the average or general opinion about this as far as I know..

[manticore999]

For me there are four :

SC
BC&SL
8VM
TOT

I don't consider WDADU in the running as I just block that out .

The last two were pretty good, but not on the same level as SFAM or even 6DOIT - but still, pretty good.  I'm really worried about the new album though, because the story sounds just amazingly stupid.  Hopefully the lyrics don't mess it up too bad (TCOT, anyone?) so it's at least easy to ignore the story line. 

[BlobVanDam]

This isn't about "good", it's about "special".




Which is even sillier.

[manticore999]

This isn't about "good", it's about "special".




Which is even sillier.

Well ... they can't be special if they're not good.  And I know 'special' and 'good' are subjective but the question asks for a subjective answer.

[BlobVanDam]

An album can be special if it's not good. WDADU is special for being the first DT album, and it's absolutely dreadful.

[ToT-147]

An album can be special if it's not good. WDADU is special for being the first DT album, and it's absolutely dreadful.

Yes, and also if it's your least favorite, it's special for that..

[Enigmachine]

Special = / = Unpredictable..

Also, you are contradicting yourself by saying that SC is not special (or "least special" than the rest) and right after saying it's the last DT album to *whatever*.. <<It's the last album to>>... That makes it special..

OTOH, I fully disagree that it didn't drastically change from 8V.. It really did.. Maybe except for the songs you mentioned, but besides those, the album is quite unpredictable..

ITPoE's, TDEN and TMoLS more than anything (more than half of the album), but the whole album has that experimental and strange (uncanny) touch, unique and different from not only 8V but all the previous albums until then, and even different from the last three.. The songs' structures, the scales, the whole vibe is very distinctive, refreshingly dark and innovative... At least IMHO, which is, once more, far from the average or general opinion about this as far as I know..

I meant first album to not change from the last for SC and I wouldn't say that lack of distinction makes it seperate. I know it's different, but would you really say that the difference between 8vm and SC is as big as any of the previous changes (Awake to FII and ToT to 8vm for some of the biggest changes). I also really don't think the album is that experimental or dark for that matter, not as much as Awake, SDoIT or ToT for sure. It's good but IMHO not as distinctive as three quarters of DT's discography.

Also, I never said that an album being special was about unpredictability, I took it as meaning distinct from the others (disregarding quality as you may as well just change the poll to '3 least favourite DT albums' in that case).

[BlobVanDam]

There's a huge change from 8V to SC. I've never understood some people thinking there was little progression.

[Enigmachine]

There's a huge change from 8V to SC. I've never understood some people thinking there was little progression.

I know that there is a huge difference between those two albums but again, is it really a larger difference than previous changes?



WDaDU to IaW -Change to a much more focused and methodical style with vastly improved sound quality.
Awake -Change to a heavier and restrained style with a cold sound.
FII -Change to a less heavy and more commercially oriented style with a very full sound.
SfaM -Change to a more technical and grandiose style with a slightly rawer sound.
SDoIT -Change to a more experimental and eclectic style with a fuller sound yet again.
ToT -Change to a heavier and aggressive style with a rawer sound.
8vm -Change to an accessible and varied style with a very polished sound.

I think SC would fit the 8vm description the most but I would still acknowledge a significant difference. DT don't tend to make two albums that sound incredibly similar at once and I think SC would be no exception. But it would be the least different up to that point. I'm not really bothered by any of this though, I'd rather have a great album than a 'special' one.