Dream Theater > Dream Theater
Which DT song/album has the most time signature changes?
IDontNotDoThings:
--- Quote from: CharlesPL on October 07, 2015, 12:09:35 AM ---108 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkFNdi8gIMY
--- End quote ---
At 2:17 of his video , he alternates between 5/4 & 2/4, while I listed it as 7/4 throughout the whole section. At 2:48, he shows a 9/4 & a 2/4 alternating in the section I listed as 11/4 (considering they're surrounded by 11/4 anyway). At 5:36, I got lost (:P), but there's definitely some differences there too. I think it's partially subjective though, & I did simplify a few things.
Calvin6s:
I'd participate if I was still in my teens / twenties and had way more time. Instead, I will just observe and enjoy. I especially like the videos where they are counted out as the song actually plays.
I'm less excited about time sig changes as I was at that age as well (in terms of writing). The best thing about writing in multiple time sigs outside of 4/4 is that you are less likely to inadvertently copy something.
My suggestion to anybody getting into this is to not try to learn as many time sigs all at once. Instead, get 4/4 down. Then try and make 4/4 not sound like 4/4. That's how you know you have it as an internal clock as opposed to thinking in terms of numbers and subdivisions.
Then take just one new time sig and just jam over it. You've had a decade or decades of 4/4, so the idea that you are just going to internalize a new sig in an hour then move onto the next one is ridiculous. You can do it, but then it just feels like counting instead of feeling it.
I'd suggest taking this route:
12/8 - 4/4 with a triplet feel (subdivide by 3 instead of 4) Also called compound time (as opposed to simple time)
3/4 - The easiest way to feel this is think waltz. This allows you to *home base* the feel so it isn't just counting
9/8 - This is the same as going from 4/4 to 12/8. Instead it is 3/4 to 9/8. Waltz feel, but compound (3) instead of simple (2s and 4s) per beat. But you can take a different route and do the Voices intro (4/4 with half beat tacked on at the end)
7/8 - This is where you start to really get that odd time feeling going. Where the symmetry starts to go away. But it doesn't have to.
People can think of it as eighth notes divided into 2-2-3 or 2-3-2 or 3-2-2 or 3-4 or whatever. That's the common DT feel(s). But my love of 7/8 is when I naturally fell upon looking at it from the 16th note perspective. My absolute favorite pulse is
1 e & a - 2 e & a - 3 & a - 4 & a
So it feels like 4/4, but the 2nd half (beats 3 & 4) have the last 16th note chopped off, which produces a slightly rushed feel. This gives the illusion of 4/4, but for some reason it feels like it is really chugging along.
You can also think of it as 1st half simple time, 2nd half compound time. Or 2/4 + 6/8, but the 16th note equals the eight note triplet in time duration.
I'll cut it there, but just throwing out some thoughts on how to feel these as opposed to just counting them out. Maybe we can start a thread where somebody takes a time sig and explains how they feel it. There are some "accepted" ways, but the fun is not just using the accepted methods. If you stumble upon something musical, share. I'm thinking Mangini's The Grid might be something like this (just guessing).
Also, sometimes it is easier to combine sigs for the sake of the sheet music looking less "change every few beats". For instance, going back between 5/4 and 4/4 constantly, sometimes when you are in your DAW, it is just easier to say 9/4, even though the constant 5/4 to 4/4 changes represents what is actually happening better. It can be bad form, but oh so much easier to program into the DAW. I bring this up because of the 11/4 and 7/4 mentions earlier.
BTW, I'd like to see the songs prepared with two numbers each. One is every change. The other is every unique signature. I think that might give a different perspective into the complexity as well.
IDontNotDoThings:
Added LTL, it comes closer to TDOE than you might imagine.
IDontNotDoThings:
Metropolis Pt. 2: Scenes From A Memory
1. Regression
6/4, no changes
2. Overture 1928
start at 4/4
2/4 last bar of buildup
change back to 4/4
3/4 after orchestral part
5/4 fast guitar part after that riff
4/4 keyboard solo
3/4 2nd bar of riff after M&S outro reprise
change back to 4/4 for 3 bars
change back to 3/4 for 1 bar
change back to 4/4
3/4 when one guitar is doing fast bits & another is doing short chords, 2nd bar
change back to 4/4
2/4 last bar of that part
alternate between 4/4 & 7/8 twice (1 bar each), hold 7/8 for an extra bar (counts as 4)
change back to 4/4
3. Strange Deja Vu
start at 4/4
7/4 1st perchorus
6/4 4th bar of 1st prechorus
4/4 final bar of 1st prechorus onwards
7/4 2nd prechorus
4/4 4th bar of 2nd prechorus onwards
3/4 "a feeling that's deep inside me"
change back to 4/4
6/4 last bar before verse 3 starts
change back to 4/4
for the 2nd part of verse 3, change to 7/8 after each line, then change back (counts as 6)
3/4 "a feeling that won't go away"
change back to 4/4
4. Through My Words
4/4, no changes
5. Fatal Tragedgy
start at 4/4
2/4 last bar before verse 1
change back to 4/4
3/4 chorus 1
6/4 last bar of chorus 1
11/8 instrumental part after chorus
9/8 last bar of that section
change back to 4/4
6/4 4th bar of instrumental section
change back to 4/4
6/4 djent-y part in instrumtnal section
change back to 4/4
2/4 when it cuts to silence for a brief second
change back to 4/4
2/4 last bar before final line is spoken
change back to 4/4
6. Beyond This Life
start at 5/4
alternate between 4/4 & 7/8 when deviated from main riff, except last bar is 2/4 not 7/8 (counts as 8)
change back to 5/4
alternate between 4/4 & 7/8 after verse 1, except last bar is 6/4 not 7/8 (counts as 8)
change back to 5/4
6/4 "the witness ran to call for assistance"
change back to 5/4
3/4 chorus ("our deeds have travelled far")
change back to 5/4
4/4 verse 2
for 2nd part of verse 2, switch to 6/4 & 4/4 for the instrumental after each line (counts as 4)
for 3rd part, do the same except with 4/4 & 2/4 (counts as 12)
15/8 lead-in to prechorus 2
9/8 last bar of that
6/4 1st 2 bars of prechorus 2
15/8 2nd 2 bars of prechorus 2
6/4 last 4 bars of prechorus 2
3/4 chorus 2
5/4 instrumental section start
6/4 dynamics boost
4/4 return to verse 2 part 1 riff
for the next section, cycle 5/4 for 1 bar & 4/4 for 3 repeatedly (counts as 20)
3/4 buildup to final chorus + rest of song
7. Through Her Eyes
4/4, no changes
8. Home
start at 4/4
for start of instrumental outro after final chorus, cycle 7/8 for 3 bars & 4/4 for 1 (counts as 4)
change back to 7/8
for that one fill, alternate 3/8 & 5/8 (counts as 4)
change back to 7/8
return to that fill, time signatures in following order: 3/8
5/8
2/4
3/8 (for 2 bars)
3/4
7/16 [end fill]
change back to normal part, this time in 19/16
6/8 after 3 bars
change back to 19/16
14/16 building up to last note
4/4 last 2 notes
9. The Dance Of Eternity
(copypaste this from the other forum post)
10. One Last Time
start at 4/4
after 1st chorus, cycle 7/8 & 4/4 (1 bar each) (counts as 3)
for guitar solo, cycle 4/4 for 3 bars & 3/4 for 1 (counts as 4)
change back to 4/4
11. The Spirit Carries On
6/8, no changes
12. Finally Free
start at 4/4
9/8 last bar before mood darkens
change back to 4/4
7/8 piano part before verse 1
change back to 4/4
2/4 last bar before chorus
change back to 4/4
7/8 piano part before verse 2
change back to 4/4
3/4 "as their bodies lie still"
4/4 "familiar voice comes shining through"
2/4 "someday soon"
change back to 4/4 for outro
1. Regression - 0
2. Overture 1928 - 17
3. Stange Deja Vu - 17 (that is strange deja vu indeed)
4. Through My Words - 0
5. Fatal Tragedy - 15
6. Beyond This Life - 69
7. Through Her Eyes - 0
8. Home - 21 (all of which being in the outro)
9. The Dance Of Eternity - 85
10. One Last Time - 8
11. The Spirit Carries On - 0
12. Finally Free - 12
Total - 244
ToT-147:
--- Quote from: darkshade on October 05, 2015, 05:07:15 PM ---Octavarium
TDOE
ACOS
Beyond This Life
One of those
--- End quote ---
I wouldn't say BtL, but those three and SDoIT are probably among the songs with most time signature changes..
I counted the changes in Octavarium, and I got around 140..
That would beat TDoE, and it has nothing to do with their respective lenghts, because, out of 8V, in Full Circle are almost all the different time signatures..
These are the time signature changes for each section:
Someone Like Him: 5
Medicate (Awakening): 0
Full Circle: 125
Intervals: 10
Razor's Edge: 0
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