Author Topic: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation  (Read 5859 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Cool Chris

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13601
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2015, 09:17:23 PM »
I thought DT12 was a pretty big drop off in songwriting from ADToE, which I thought was borderline masterful. Very curious what the next album brings.

I wish for the an album filled with songs totally unlike every other song they've ever done.

That could go both ways. I think a band this far in to their careers is not usually best served by doing something out of their wheelhouse. Some people feel this means stagnation and complacency. but if a band has a formula that is working and keeping them happy, I don't want to suggest they do otherwise. Now, if people think that formula is not working, that is a different discussion.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline Train of Naught

  • I sympathize, with a cockroach
  • Posts: 8008
  • Gender: Male
  • .....and a cockroach
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #36 on: October 06, 2015, 02:46:08 AM »
Wouldn't it be hilarious if they tried something like Haken's Cockroach King?  :lol
people on this board are actual music fans who developed taste in music and not casual listeners who are following current fashion trends and listening to only current commercial hits.

Offline Sycsa

  • Posts: 1898
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #37 on: October 06, 2015, 03:03:15 AM »
I'll try not to mention the "G" word. :biggrin:
I appreciate that. :P


Sycsa is perhaps the most brilliant and insightful man I have ever encountered.

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #38 on: October 06, 2015, 03:55:29 AM »
I think that I've said it before, but I don't understand why some people wish for a certain production without knowing the music? Certain styles of production are better suited to certain musical styles than others, and while I don't think that DT will go full reggae-funk on DT13, I still think that it's a little premature.

Well, Rush did have their reggae phase in the early 80s, and I don't think anyone would have predicted that from Hemispheres.  so...

Yeah and nobody wants DT to put out a Synth only album.

Offline erwinrafael

  • Posts: 3436
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2015, 07:42:56 AM »
Well, this is one thing to look forward to. From Mangini:

"It means humans HAVE TO WIRE UP WITH POLYRHYTHMS OR THE AREA DOESN'T WORK SO A PERSON CAN PROCESS WHAT THEY'RE HEARING. No wonder they say, "I just don't' like it." Derrrrrrrrrrrrr... What else would they say? What they don't like is the feeling of not knowing, not the music. It all makes sense melodically, so they can't say it isn't melodic. The "grooves" happen to be 11/16 for example, but that IS THE GROOVE. Just because it isn't neanderthal 4/4/ all the time means it is a different groove with NO swing, not NO groove. So If you have a friend that you'd like to enjoy Dream Theater in the craziest moments, then explain a rhythm or two, make them count it out. There are rhythms I put in the last two albums that I don't feel people are picking up on with a couple of the craziest ones of all coming up on our next release."

Offline BlobVanDam

  • Future Boy
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 38940
  • Gender: Male
  • Transform and rock out!
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2015, 07:47:52 AM »
Is that actually a real quote? Good gawd......
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Sycsa

  • Posts: 1898
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2015, 07:55:15 AM »
Haha, wow. It's pretentious and elitist as hell, but I still find his approach intriguing. Here's the whole thing:
Quote
Do you have a friend that just doesn't 'get' Prog Music when the music gets rhythmically crazy? Know anybody that says Prog is "not musical? or "doesn't groove mannn?" It is because they can't process it in order to even have an opinion that they "like it or not." It is like they're trying to get online with no browser software on their computer. Proof is in THE quote of the century that says one HAS to learn polyrhythms to wire up in order to process, which will be EASY for us in the seminars:

"... This would indicate that activation of BA47 is specific to polyrhythm, rather than to the origin of this tension (the stimulus or the task)."

It means humans HAVE TO WIRE UP WITH POLYRHYTHMS OR THE AREA DOESN'T WORK SO A PERSON CAN PROCESS WHAT THEY'RE HEARING. No wonder they say, "I just don't' like it." Derrrrrrrrrrrrr... What else would they say? What they don't like is the feeling of not knowing, not the music. It all makes sense melodically, so they can't say it isn't melodic. The "grooves" happen to be 11/16 for example, but that IS THE GROOVE. Just because it isn't neanderthal 4/4/ all the time means it is a different groove with NO swing, not NO groove. So If you have a friend that you'd like to enjoy Dream Theater in the craziest moments, then explain a rhythm or two, make them count it out. There are rhythms I put in the last two albums that I don't feel people are picking up on with a couple of the craziest ones of all coming up on our next release. Too many people want fast food music, which I do sometimes too, but to not be able to enjoy most of the World's most deep music is just sad and it is for no good reason except that most of us just don't know how we work. Spread the word! There's hope for all. It is NEVER too late to make connections!!


Sycsa is perhaps the most brilliant and insightful man I have ever encountered.

Offline emtee

  • Posts: 2896
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #42 on: October 06, 2015, 08:18:09 AM »
That's funny.

As to the thread question I don't care what they do or how they experiment as long as they make the damn album sound good through
my Kilpsh speakers.

Offline erwinrafael

  • Posts: 3436
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #43 on: October 06, 2015, 09:19:33 AM »
Haha, wow. It's pretentious and elitist as hell, but I still find his approach intriguing. Here's the whole thing:
Quote
Do you have a friend that just doesn't 'get' Prog Music when the music gets rhythmically crazy? Know anybody that says Prog is "not musical? or "doesn't groove mannn?" It is because they can't process it in order to even have an opinion that they "like it or not." It is like they're trying to get online with no browser software on their computer. Proof is in THE quote of the century that says one HAS to learn polyrhythms to wire up in order to process, which will be EASY for us in the seminars:

"... This would indicate that activation of BA47 is specific to polyrhythm, rather than to the origin of this tension (the stimulus or the task)."

It means humans HAVE TO WIRE UP WITH POLYRHYTHMS OR THE AREA DOESN'T WORK SO A PERSON CAN PROCESS WHAT THEY'RE HEARING. No wonder they say, "I just don't' like it." Derrrrrrrrrrrrr... What else would they say? What they don't like is the feeling of not knowing, not the music. It all makes sense melodically, so they can't say it isn't melodic. The "grooves" happen to be 11/16 for example, but that IS THE GROOVE. Just because it isn't neanderthal 4/4/ all the time means it is a different groove with NO swing, not NO groove. So If you have a friend that you'd like to enjoy Dream Theater in the craziest moments, then explain a rhythm or two, make them count it out. There are rhythms I put in the last two albums that I don't feel people are picking up on with a couple of the craziest ones of all coming up on our next release. Too many people want fast food music, which I do sometimes too, but to not be able to enjoy most of the World's most deep music is just sad and it is for no good reason except that most of us just don't know how we work. Spread the word! There's hope for all. It is NEVER too late to make connections!!

It came off as pretentious at the first reading, but when I saw that he is linking to  peer reviewed scientific journal article and then I read the article, it did not come off as pretentiousness at all. He's reporting a scientific finding, which is what his clinic is about. How to train your mind to groobe with polyrhythm.

Offline CDrice

  • Posts: 826
  • Gender: Male
  • I do art stuff
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2015, 09:24:32 AM »
Regarding the Mike's quote, I think he may be missing something. I think it's the genre of music you use to introduce someone to those ideas that will more likely turn them off. Polyrhythms (and odd-time signatures) are widely used in Prog Rock and Prog metal, but the problem is that most people don't care about those genres. So no matter how hard you try, you're not going to convince someone that polyrhythms or odd-times are cool by making them listen to a prog song. I mean unless it's pointed out, I feel most people would not realize that the polyrhythms are there (that is if they are well done)


Offline erwinrafael

  • Posts: 3436
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #45 on: October 06, 2015, 09:27:42 AM »
Why would you introdu e someone to prog metal or prog rock if he is not into metal or rock?

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #46 on: October 06, 2015, 09:42:09 AM »
I understand the point of Pop music and boy bands just fine. I know what the songs are about and why they exist.


I will never, however enjoy a One Direction or Justin Bieber song.

Online BlackInk

  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6925
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #47 on: October 06, 2015, 09:45:48 AM »
I don't know if that MM quote is out of context or anything, but that is some stupid shit.

Offline CDrice

  • Posts: 826
  • Gender: Male
  • I do art stuff
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #48 on: October 06, 2015, 09:46:02 AM »
Why would you introdu e someone to prog metal or prog rock if he is not into metal or rock?

Well I was more talking about the idea of introducing someone to polyrhythms. And since it's common in prog music (and this is a Dream Theater forum), I used those genre as an example.

As for the acual topic of this thread, I'd like them to keep the more upfront bass. I'd also like if Jordan was a bit less drowned. Other than that, I just want a good album (which I'm sure they can deliver)

Offline Lucien

  • James 5:1-5
  • Posts: 4618
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #49 on: October 06, 2015, 09:46:30 AM »
not digging that quote at all
"Kind of a stupid game, isn't it?" - Calvin

Offline erwinrafael

  • Posts: 3436
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #50 on: October 06, 2015, 10:21:20 AM »
If people  would bother to read the scientific article Mike was referring to when he made the quote, i don't see how he woukd come across as arrogant in that post.

Offline pdurbin22

  • Posts: 105
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #51 on: October 06, 2015, 01:27:36 PM »
All I know is that the band has been awfully quiet about this one, and taking six months longer than usual.  I smell a concept album.

Offline pcs90

  • Posts: 979
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #52 on: October 06, 2015, 01:34:13 PM »
If people  would bother to read the scientific article Mike was referring to when he made the quote, i don't see how he woukd come across as arrogant in that post.
I didn't read the article at all and I still don't see how he could come across as arrogant in that post.

Offline Enigmachine

  • Posts: 1331
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #53 on: October 06, 2015, 01:50:21 PM »
Putting that quote into consideration (what with the "rhythms I put in the last two albums that I don't feel people are picking up on with a couple of the craziest ones of all coming up on our next release."), I'll say that the new album could be a return to the more long-form experimental songwriting of SDoIT with more technicality and a more in-depth usage of some of Jordan's strange app things. Maybe the production could combine the positives of ADToE (relatively unharmed by loudness war, organic sound) and DT12 (heaviness, relatively well-balanced mix). Even if it was part two of the self-titled, I would still be happy tbh (loved that album and still do).
If people  would bother to read the scientific article Mike was referring to when he made the quote, i don't see how he woukd come across as arrogant in that post.
I didn't read the article at all and I still don't see how he could come across as arrogant in that post.
Same here really, I don't see what's wrong with getting across the fact that getting used to odd rhythms is a good thing. It appears to be people misinterpreting him, thinking he is saying that 4/4 is for only for neanderthals (I think what he meant to say was that it's simple enough and ingrained in our minds that even a neanderthal could understand it, not that it is bad) and that the post is saying "get on my level, bro  :hat". Given that this is kind of for his teaching and interlinked with a proper scientific study, that would be ridiculous.

Offline pcs90

  • Posts: 979
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #54 on: October 06, 2015, 01:58:15 PM »
I think what he meant to say was that it's simple enough and ingrained in our minds that even a neanderthal could understand it, not that it is bad.
Exactly. Not to mention there are sections of DT songs in 4/4, so that would make no sense at all. And there are ways to do cool polyrhythms and time modulations in 4/4 too so just because it's basic doesn't mean you can't do stuff with it...and I have no doubt that he knows this. People are just thinking too much into it.

Offline Enigmachine

  • Posts: 1331
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #55 on: October 06, 2015, 02:41:57 PM »
And there are ways to do cool polyrhythms and time modulations in 4/4 too so just because it's basic doesn't mean you can't do stuff with it...
This is essentially what Meshuggah's entire career consists of, what with all the polymetres and stuff linking with an underlying 4/4 pulse, so yup, it is definitely possible to do some mind-bending things with 4/4 and I have no doubt that Mangini has done playing of this sort (in fact https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6SNra7DIX4 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah92_G9-6Lo as well as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ37nonagho all show him doing this kind of thing).

People are just thinking too much into it.
To be fair, after being starved of new info on the new album for most of the year, everyone seems almost trained to look into otherwise-innocuous quotes and find a meaning that could be the opposite of what they meant. Plus, it really doesn't seem like MM should be posting at all given this:
Quote
"smile emoticon" ??? man....I'm going back to work ! Posting isn't my thing !!
...and other bizzare moments like "explore what can be done within one beat, never mind and odd string, or odd phrase of them." make it seem like he should get some guy to edit his comments or just do it himself as these clearly aren't meant to be off-the-cuff posts and need to really be worded in the best way possible to not alienate anyone or make someone just go  :mehlin trying to decipher it.

Offline Cool Chris

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13601
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #56 on: October 06, 2015, 02:48:48 PM »
It's times like these when I am glad I have no idea what the hell any of you music experts are talking about and can just enjoy (or not enjoy) music in my blissful ignorance.  :)
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #57 on: October 06, 2015, 03:07:48 PM »
I have actually found that a LOT of DT fans can't follow the measures in the songs to save their lives. So, that kinda negates what MM is saying there. I think a lot of people perceive the music on a much more "impressionist" level, like Cool Chris maybe. He likes how it sounds, but probably has no idea why.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline Train of Naught

  • I sympathize, with a cockroach
  • Posts: 8008
  • Gender: Male
  • .....and a cockroach
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #58 on: October 06, 2015, 03:20:01 PM »
It's times like these when I am glad I have no idea what the hell any of you music experts are talking about and can just enjoy (or not enjoy) music in my blissful ignorance.  :)
people on this board are actual music fans who developed taste in music and not casual listeners who are following current fashion trends and listening to only current commercial hits.

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #59 on: October 06, 2015, 03:26:07 PM »
It's times like these when I am glad I have no idea what the hell any of you music experts are talking about and can just enjoy (or not enjoy) music in my blissful ignorance.  :)

Don't worry. I'm not one of those people who knows music theory who thinks you need to know any of it to enjoy music.

Of course you don't.

I feel the same about my favourite songs now as I did 20 years ago before I knew what a crotchet was.

Offline Sacul

  • Spinettapilled
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 12162
  • Gender: Male
  • ¿De qué sirvió haber cruzado a nado la mar?
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #60 on: October 06, 2015, 04:08:24 PM »
I studied music theory for almost 3 years and still don't understand most of it, specially harmony theory, and don't even know how to count/measure time signatures and stuff like that  :lol

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #61 on: October 06, 2015, 04:11:09 PM »
, and don't even know how to count/measure time signatures and stuff like that  :lol

YOU WOT M8

Seriously though. One thing I still get confused by is when a song is 3/4 and when it is 6/8 or when a song is 5/4 or 10/8.


Offline Sycsa

  • Posts: 1898
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #62 on: October 06, 2015, 04:23:45 PM »
Yeah, I often don't know whether to count something as 6/8 or just look at it as triplets in 4/4. A good example that comes to mind is Nightwish's Over the Hills.


Sycsa is perhaps the most brilliant and insightful man I have ever encountered.

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #63 on: October 06, 2015, 04:29:47 PM »
In many cases it is ambiguous,  and the people who claim otherwise are trying to make themselves sound important and "in the know".
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline Enigmachine

  • Posts: 1331
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #64 on: October 06, 2015, 04:48:23 PM »
It's times like these when I am glad I have no idea what the hell any of you music experts are talking about and can just enjoy (or not enjoy) music in my blissful ignorance.  :)

Don't worry. I'm not one of those people who knows music theory who thinks you need to know any of it to enjoy music.

Of course you don't.

I feel the same about my favourite songs now as I did 20 years ago before I knew what a crotchet was.
Knowing music theory likely won't change your opinion on a song. However, it can help you understand why you like something. For example: I like how the chromaticism and alternating between 4/4 and 7/8 time signatures at around 20 seconds into Beyond This Life creates a tense feeling that is then released in the heavier and comparitively straightforward 5/4 power chord riff afterwards. I feel like without the musical terminology used, I would be less able to voice why I think something works (or if it doesn't), so imo it can improve discussion and make critiques more credible (not that theory is needed for an opinion to be taken seriously).

, and don't even know how to count/measure time signatures and stuff like that  :lol

YOU WOT M8

Seriously though. One thing I still get confused by is when a song is 3/4 and when it is 6/8 or when a song is 5/4 or 10/8.



3/4 and 6/8 cover the same amount of time, as does the pairing of 5/4 and 10/8. The difference is mostly in how it is felt, with 3/4 being more likely to be a waltzy thing (ONE, two, three in crotchets) while 6/8 being more likely to be something with a triplet feel (ONE, and, two, AND, three, and in crotchets and 'and's being quavers in the middle). Note how the emphasis shown with caps is different between the two, with quaver time signatures usually implying a different pattern of accents, like how the intro riff of Beyond This Life is evenly divided into 5 by the drum beat but 10/8 could imply something that feels very different but takes up the same amount of time if it is placed within the same tempo (like ONE, and, TWO, and, three, AND, four, AND, five, AND with numbers being crotchets again just as an example).
Yeah, I often don't know whether to count something as 6/8 or just look at it as triplets in 4/4. A good example that comes to mind is Nightwish's Over the Hills.
I'd go for triplets in 4/4 if you can count in 4s along to it as it's just more convenient. Also, 12/8 would probably be the correct equivalent considering 6/8 would result in twice as many bars in triplet 4/4.

Offline Lucien

  • James 5:1-5
  • Posts: 4618
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #65 on: October 06, 2015, 04:58:15 PM »
6/8 is compound meter (ONE la li TWO la li); counted as two divided into triplets

3/4 is triple meter (ONE te TWO te THREE te); counted as 3 beats
"Kind of a stupid game, isn't it?" - Calvin

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #66 on: October 06, 2015, 05:10:25 PM »
I think that much is obvious to everyone. What's not obvious is what constitutes a quarter and what constitutes an eighth.  One man's slow eighth is another man's fast quarter.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #67 on: October 06, 2015, 05:21:01 PM »
I think that much is obvious to everyone. What's not obvious is what constitutes a quarter and what constitutes an eighth.  One man's slow eighth is another man's fast quarter.

I need a refresher course.  :lol I remember weird shit but forget the basics.

Offline erwinrafael

  • Posts: 3436
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #68 on: October 06, 2015, 07:07:18 PM »
I have actually found that a LOT of DT fans can't follow the measures in the songs to save their lives. So, that kinda negates what MM is saying there. I think a lot of people perceive the music on a much more "impressionist" level, like Cool Chris maybe. He likes how it sounds, but probably has no idea why.

It does not negate what MM said. The DT fans who can appreciate the odd times sigs and polyrhythms in DT music at the impressionist level most likely have the BA47 sector of their brain wired and activated. MM did not say you should know how to count the rhythms to appreciate polyrhythm. He's saying that you should be able to tap the BA47 sector.

What he said about counting is that if somebody is having difficulty jiving with polyrhythms, most likely their brains are not yet wired to tap BA47. And you can help these people to tap the BA47 sector by counting out the rhythm to them.

Offline Rodni Demental

  • Posts: 1113
  • Gender: Male
Re: Potential new sounds and directions in DT13 - Wishlist and Speculation
« Reply #69 on: October 06, 2015, 07:20:38 PM »
I need a refresher course.  :lol I remember weird shit but forget the basics.
In many cases it is ambiguous,  and the people who claim otherwise are trying to make themselves sound important and "in the know".
What's not obvious is what constitutes a quarter and what constitutes an eighth.  One man's slow eighth is another man's fast quarter.

True, ultimately the length of a note is going to be relative to the tempo and interpretation of the player, but variation in player tempo is not why we use different meters and there are valid reasons to use one over another that are not just relevant because it makes you sound 'important' to someone who is not 'in the know' :P
It's supposed to be the way the composer is telling you how they're subdividing the measures. Sure 6/8 might as well be the same amount of space as 3/4. And yeah someones quaver might aswell be another persons crotchet. But when you're writing it out in score, it will often make more sense to use one or the other. (Also in many cases it'll be a lot neater on paper to use a particular choice eg. lots of semi quavers in 4/4 might be a bit messier than a bunch of quavers in 2/2). It can also imply to the player how the piece 'felt' to the composer, and so can help make the piece flow or groove in a similar way to what was originally intended. This is normally related to tempo in correlation with when to emphasise the beat depending on the devising note value.

So while ambiguous at times, 4/4 is not the same as 8/8 (they might be represented this way but time signatures aren't the same as fractions) As others have said, the difference is less in the strict timing and more in the feel or pulse of the music.

Try counting these out loud:

4/4: "1-2-3-4-/1-2-3-4-"
8/8: "12345678/12345678"
2/2: "1---2---/1---2---"
All three of these take up exactly the same amount of time, but to me, the 4/4 time feels steady, while the 8/8 time feels brisk and the 2/2 time feels kind of stately. In all three time signatures, a quarter note will have the same value---one quarter of the measure---but in 4/4 time, it represents the pulse of the music, while in 8/8, it's two pulses and in 2/2 time, it's half a pulse.

A difference in feel between 3/4 and 6/8 time can be even more obvious. In 3/4 time, the measure is broken up into three distinct beats eg. A Waltz. In 6/8 time, by contrast, the measure is often broken up into two beats, each with a triplet feel. Like this:

3/4 time: "ONE and TWO and THREE and/ONE and TWO and THREE and "
6/8 time: "ONE two three FOUR five six/ONE two three FOUR five six "
If the composer writes three quarter notes in 3/4 time, it will feel like three notes on the beat. But if the composer writes three quarter notes in 6/8 time, the second note may feel syncopated relative to the overall pulse of the music.

Usually when playing in 6/8 you will be playing two groups of triplets (in x/4 equivalent) thus making it closer to 2/4 than 3/4. Other than that, you would also notice the difference in terms of strong beats. In 6/8 you would have a strong beat on 1 and a lesser strong beat on 2 (4th eight note) while in 3/4 you would have one strong beat on 1 and two lesser beats on 2 and 3. You would thus notice a difference which would resolve every 3 bars. This can create fairly interesting time changes that won't be hugely abrasive when you you create say; three bars of 5/4 and resolve on a bar of 6/8. DT do this kind of thing all the time except now with MM it's gotten seemingly more specific and deliberate.

If that doesn't make sense then I guess I don't fully understand the differences Haha.. I will say it's certainly not a silly question though, and is something that can easily cause confusion and be quite hard to define, it's much much easier to demonstrate and hear the differences than expressing theoretically.  :rollin

EDIT: Adjusted some time meters to be more accurate hopefully.
TL;DR: Pointless numbers and shit that don't really mean a whole lot (sounds more complicated on paper than hearing the difference) and you probably don't need to need to know to appreciate the result. I don't have any examples from DT music so consider this analysis kind of irrelevant.  :loser:
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 11:57:31 PM by Rodni Demental »