Author Topic: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated  (Read 3786 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline npiazza91

  • Posts: 355
Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« on: September 22, 2015, 09:00:52 PM »
I love everything about it.  To me, it's like a mini Octavarium.  It has a slow build up where the first half is like a ballad, then it gets heavy leading right into the ending.  Being a huge thrash metal fan, that part from 7:50 to 8:23 is just awesome.   It seems like I don't hear about it on here much, it seems to get pushed under the radar.  What do you think about this song and do you agree that it's underrated?

Online wolfking

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 46256
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2015, 09:21:00 PM »
Nah, I'm not a big fan of it.  It's alright though.  No way would I compare it to 8VM.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline npiazza91

  • Posts: 355
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2015, 09:25:56 PM »
Nah, I'm not a big fan of it.  It's alright though.  No way would I compare it to 8VM.

So you wouldn't say it's the second best on the album, huh?  In my opinion, the only thing that gives it competition as second best is TROAE and that really depends on my mood.

Offline Rodni Demental

  • Posts: 1113
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2015, 09:31:17 PM »
I dunno if this is controversial because I know it could be a sensitive subject. But to me, this is how I honestly feel about songs like this (certainly not always). I probably half agree with you, I think it's a great song, great composition. But you know why I don't come back to it much? The concept. Not the lyrics specifically, or presentation of them, just the contrived nature of the subject. Pretty much, the whole thing feels kinda 'preachy' which isn't necessarily a bad thing and normally says more about the person making the claims than the nature of the song itself. But as a listening experience, I feel the more specific the meaning of a song is, the less replay value I get out of it. I'm just not that interested in channel surfing with JLB on a Tuesday morning and re-experiencing that journey everytime I listen to the song ya know? I wouldn't say they shouldn't write songs like this, it may be completely relevant and perhaps meaningful to the artist and many listeners but as a general rule, conceptually I don't think it's a good way to write a song. Too much being told what to feel instead of evoking the emotion if that makes sense?

Other examples of DT music I really like instrumentally, but don't listen to very much for similar reasons: In The Name of God, Ministry of Lost Souls, and to a lesser extent the entirety of SFAM and Six Degrees (the song). Although by far the worst culprit for this is In the Presence of Enemies. :P

Interestingly songs I absolutely love that can get away with doing the very thing I'm complaining about: TCOT, ANTR, IT
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 09:37:50 PM by Rodni Demental »

Offline pcs90

  • Posts: 979
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2015, 09:37:22 PM »
I agree, very underrated. I love it, it's a beautiful song. My only complaint is the instrumental goes on a bit too long (which I almost never say about DT instrumentals).

Offline Cable

  • Posts: 1513
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2015, 09:46:57 PM »
Agreed.

I have always loved this song, pretty much everything about it. The lead in, the vocals and melodies. The instrumental section riff. The unison is just incredible. So melodic. And the heavy riff fits very well.

I would put it at the top of 8V for me, or #2 at the lowest.
---

Offline ZKX-2099

  • Posts: 3169
  • Gender: Male
  • The Drifting Drifter
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2015, 10:18:55 PM »
I think it just suffers because it's the song before OCTAVARIUM.

Offline TheGreatPretender

  • The Second Dancing Turtle
  • Posts: 6981
  • Gender: Male
  • You are reading these words.
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2015, 10:28:56 PM »
I have to admit, I enjoyed it a lot more before I bothered paying attention to the lyrics. I thought Sacrificed Sons was some kind of a fantasy story about war, but 9/11... Maybe if it was on Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, or even Train of Thought. But Octavarium, I mean, nobody forgets the terrible tragedy that it was, but by 2005, everyone had a chance to reflect on it, and process it, and interpret it in their own way, so the lyrics really didn't add any new or unique perspective on the events. That's the downfall of this song I'd say.

The composition, though, is absolutely magnificent, from the music, to the vocal melodies, there's nothing bad I can say about it at all.
"How's that for a slice of fried gold?"

Online wolfking

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 46256
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2015, 10:46:06 PM »
Nah, I'm not a big fan of it.  It's alright though.  No way would I compare it to 8VM.

So you wouldn't say it's the second best on the album, huh?  In my opinion, the only thing that gives it competition as second best is TROAE and that really depends on my mood.

Nope.  TROAE, TW are better.  I'd probably take IWBY and PA before it too.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline BlobVanDam

  • Future Boy
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 38940
  • Gender: Male
  • Transform and rock out!
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2015, 11:52:59 PM »
I agree it's an underrated song, at the very least under-mentioned. Beautiful from start to finish, especially the second half of the solo, and that outro. Great use of the orchestra. :tup
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Enalya

  • Posts: 257
  • Gender: Female
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2015, 02:13:46 AM »
I love everything about it.  To me, it's like a mini Octavarium.  It has a slow build up where the first half is like a ballad, then it gets heavy leading right into the ending.  Being a huge thrash metal fan, that part from 7:50 to 8:23 is just awesome.   It seems like I don't hear about it on here much, it seems to get pushed under the radar.  What do you think about this song and do you agree that it's underrated?

Agreed with every sentence! Very enjoyable and powerful song. It's great how they switch between rhythms in the main theme.

Offline krands85

  • Posts: 3009
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2015, 03:02:19 AM »
I agree it's an underrated song, at the very least under-mentioned. Beautiful from start to finish, especially the second half of the solo, and that outro. Great use of the orchestra. :tup
This, I've always loved the song. Definitely my second favourite on Octavarium, behind the title track.
Whoaaaahh, ohhh, ohhhhh. Whoaaaahh, ohhhhh, ohhhhhh. Waaah, ahhh, haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaowwwwww

Offline McNugg

  • Lurker Extraordinaire
  • Posts: 134
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2015, 05:06:26 AM »
It's has probably my favourite JP solo.  So many feels.

Offline mikeyd23

  • Posts: 5479
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2015, 06:10:07 AM »
Really great song for sure, I have always loved it. Lyrical content of the song has never bothered me at all.

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 14474
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2015, 07:06:15 AM »
I love everything about it.  To me, it's like a mini Octavarium.  It has a slow build up where the first half is like a ballad, then it gets heavy leading right into the ending.  Being a huge thrash metal fan, that part from 7:50 to 8:23 is just awesome.   It seems like I don't hear about it on here much, it seems to get pushed under the radar.  What do you think about this song and do you agree that it's underrated?


Love this song. Actually prefer it to Octavarium by a long shot. The second half of the instrumental section until the end of the song is (IMO) one of the most epic things the band has ever put together.

Offline kaos2900

  • Posts: 2964
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2015, 07:20:55 AM »
LOVE this song.

Online hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 52775
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2015, 07:53:00 AM »
I think the music is pretty awesome, and I'm glad they wrote it.

But for me, the lyrical subject matter is real and heavy enough that I am rarely in the mood to listen to it.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline 425

  • Posts: 6910
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2015, 08:20:33 AM »
So you wouldn't say it's the second best on the album, huh?  In my opinion, the only thing that gives it competition as second best is TROAE and that really depends on my mood.

These Walls.

I like Sacrificed Sons, though. Just, These Walls.

I have to admit, I enjoyed it a lot more before I bothered paying attention to the lyrics. I thought Sacrificed Sons was some kind of a fantasy story about war, but 9/11... Maybe if it was on Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, or even Train of Thought. But Octavarium, I mean, nobody forgets the terrible tragedy that it was, but by 2005, everyone had a chance to reflect on it, and process it, and interpret it in their own way, so the lyrics really didn't add any new or unique perspective on the events. That's the downfall of this song I'd say.

But when you listen to that song in 2015, are you really thinking "well, this came out in 2005, therefore these lyrics are so not timely"? It seems like that shouldn't even be a factor listening to the album today.

And even so, artists have written touching songs about wars and tragedies that were a lot older than four years at the time they wrote the songs.
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline Dublagent66

  • Devouring consciousness...
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9695
  • Gender: Male
  • ...Digesting power
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2015, 08:59:27 AM »
Music is ok, but needs to be heavier.  Don't care much for the subject matter unless the mood of the song fits.  If you're gonna write songs about terrorism, it better be heavy and angry.  Otherwise, it's not really getting the message across.  Even ITNOG isn't heavy enough or ITPOE for that matter.  I'm talking heavy like HTF in terms of DT type heavy.
"Two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -Albert Einstein
"There's not a pill you can take.  There's not a class you can go to.  Stupid is foreva."  -Ron White

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2015, 09:14:56 AM »
Quote from: Nobody
Rank The Octavarium album.


::) Rank the Octavarium Album ? Fine...


1. Octavarium
2. Sacrificed Sons
3. Root Of All Evil
4. These Walls
5. Panic Attack
6. The Answer Lies Within
7. I Walk Beside You
8. Never Enough


And I  :heart I walk Beside You & The Answer Lies Within. Just shows you strong I think this album is.

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 15690
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2015, 09:16:40 AM »
Music is ok, but needs to be heavier.  Don't care much for the subject matter unless the mood of the song fits.  If you're gonna write songs about terrorism, it better be heavy and angry.  Otherwise, it's not really getting the message across.  Even ITNOG isn't heavy enough or ITPOE for that matter.  I'm talking heavy like HTF in terms of DT type heavy.

I don't think it's about Terrorism, more a song about the tragedy that occured. It was an emotional event that affected a lot of people. The line "Who would wish this on our people?" portrays the songs mood.

Sacrificed Sons is my favorite from 8vm.

Quote from: Nobody
Rank The Octavarium album.


::) Rank the Octavarium Album ? Fine...


I'll play...

1.Sacrificed Sons
2. These Walls
3. Octavarium
4. The Root of All Evil
5. Panic Attack
6. I Walk Beside You
7. Never Enough
8. The Answer Lies Within
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
Follow my Spotify:BjamminD

Offline TheCountOfNYC

  • Posts: 5411
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2015, 09:24:13 AM »
As a New Yorker, the song hits me in a very emotional way. I also love the instrumental section. My biggest issue with it is that the instrumental section doesn't belong in the song. You can't throw a progressive section like that into a song about one of the worst things to happen to the United States. It takes away from the entire mood. That said, it's still a great song.

I guess I'll rank Octavarium as well.

1: Octavarium
2: Panic Attack
3: These Walls
4: Never Enough
5: Sacrificed Sons
6: The Root of all Evil
7: The Answer Lies Within
8: I Walk Beside You
People figured out that the white thing that comes out of cows' titties could be drunk, and the relation between sweet desires and women's bellies growing up for 9 months. It can't be THAT hard to figure out how a trumpet works.”

-MirrorMask

Offline pcs90

  • Posts: 979
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2015, 09:27:46 AM »
I don't think it's about Terrorism, more a song about the tragedy that occured. It was an emotional event that affected a lot of people. The line "Who would wish this on our people?" portrays the songs mood.

Agreed. I mean, the last verse is a little more angry, but I don't think taking the lyrics that they used, with those melodies, and trying to make it heavy would have the intended effect. In my opinion, it works so well because it's not too heavy.

Quote from: Nobody
Rank The Octavarium album.

1. These Walls
2. Sacrificed Sons
3. Octavarium
4. I Walk Beside You
5. Panic Attack
6. The Answer Lies Within
7. The Root of All Evil
8. Never Enough

Offline mikeyd23

  • Posts: 5479
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2015, 10:13:56 AM »
Haha every thread turns into rankings, but I'll bite...

Octavarium is actually hard for me to rank, there are several really good songs all kinda bunched together and then a couple songs I don't really care for all bunched together...

Something like this:

1. Octavarium
2. TW
3. SS
4. PA
5. TROAE


6. IWBY
7. TALW
8. NE

Offline connolla

  • Posts: 11
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2015, 10:44:38 AM »
I thought the lyrics were  written specifically so that they apply equally to both sides? Maybe I'm wrong, but both the US and the terrorists had "sacrificed sons" that they praise. They also both used religious justifications for their actions.   So the song initially sounds initially like it's from a US perspective but its actually pretty neutral.

Dunno, totally could be wrong.

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2015, 10:46:14 AM »
Does nobody rate The Answer Lies Within ? I know i've ranked it quite low above but only because I love the album so much that I actually prefer the other songs..

But The Answer Lies Within & I Walk Beside You are two of my favourite Dream Theater " ballads".

I'll take them over Along For The Ride ANY DAY of the week...

Online hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 52775
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2015, 10:54:17 AM »
Music is ok, but needs to be heavier.  Don't care much for the subject matter unless the mood of the song fits.  If you're gonna write songs about terrorism, it better be heavy and angry.  Otherwise, it's not really getting the message across.  Even ITNOG isn't heavy enough or ITPOE for that matter.  I'm talking heavy like HTF in terms of DT type heavy.

I don't think it's about Terrorism, more a song about the tragedy that occured. It was an emotional event that affected a lot of people. The line "Who would wish this on our people?" portrays the songs mood.
Agreed.

Does nobody rate The Answer Lies Within ? I know i've ranked it quite low above but only because I love the album so much that I actually prefer the other songs..

But The Answer Lies Within & I Walk Beside You are two of my favourite Dream Theater " ballads".

I'll take them over Along For The Ride ANY DAY of the week...
I think TALW is awful, easily one of DT's worst songs.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2015, 10:56:41 AM »
Cool. i think the same about Along For The Ride.

Online hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 52775
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2015, 10:58:36 AM »
Cool. i think the same about Along For The Ride.
I'm sure you have your reasons.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2015, 11:10:18 AM »
That horrible snare is the main reason.

It works ok for the big rock songs but when you have a gentle ballady song with a massive thumping muddy snare - it just ruins it.

Plus I think the melodies are really generic and sound forced. To me it sounds like the kind of song you write right at the end of the sessions and it's not so great that it's definitely a keeper -

- but not so terrible that you immediately delete it.

It's more of a " well we've got 8 songs already - may as well keep that one and put it on there. It's ok I guess ..it'll make up the numbers. "

Offline MarkFitDT

  • Posts: 326
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2015, 11:12:24 AM »
Does nobody rate The Answer Lies Within ? I know i've ranked it quite low above but only because I love the album so much that I actually prefer the other songs..

But The Answer Lies Within & I Walk Beside You are two of my favourite Dream Theater " ballads".

I'll take them over Along For The Ride ANY DAY of the week...

I love the Answer Lies Within but Along for the Ride is in a different league - in a good way.

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2015, 11:14:22 AM »
Jordan's Moog solo starting a fraction of a beat late irks me every time.

Offline MarkFitDT

  • Posts: 326
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2015, 11:16:39 AM »
Jordan's Moog solo starting a fraction of a beat late irks me every time.

That's one of my fav DT keyboard solos!

Offline As I Am

  • Banned
  • Posts: 578
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2015, 11:17:24 AM »
I agree, very underrated. I love it, it's a beautiful song. My only complaint is the instrumental goes on a bit too long (which I almost never say about DT instrumentals).

Different strokes. The instrumental part is the only thing I like about this song!

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sacrificed Sons is so underrated
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2015, 11:18:49 AM »
Jordan's Moog solo starting a fraction of a beat late irks me every time.

That's one of my fav DT keyboard solos!

It's nowhere near as good as the one in Octavarium.