Systematic Chaos Revisited....

[CrimsonSunrise]

Just recently I upgraded my car audio.  Afterwards while listening to my DT catalog over the summer, I've found that my opinions have changed quite a bit regarding certain tracks and albums.  The upgrade was a dramatic improvement in both clarity and instrument balance.  I can now REALLY hear JM!!!  Anywho..I digress...  Upon revisiting Systematic Chaos (one of the last albums to be re-spun) I found myself scratching my head as to why myself, and others have it rated as low as we do?

Overall I think now that it was pretty well done.  They really seemed to try a lot of different things with this album.  From the overall theme, to disco riffs, to whatever you'd like to catagorize TDEN as  .  In the grand scheme of things I dig most of the tunes on this album.  The only one that I seem to skip through often is CM.

Couple things that stand out to me on the re-visit...

1.  MP does a really awesome job on this album.  Both in drumming and expansion of ideas and vocals.
2. POW.....I'm sorry, but I liked this song the first time around, and I like it even more now.  Yeah...it's different and non-typical of DT, but isn't that what   Progressive should be all about"?
3. TMOLS - Again, really love this song.  It has so many emotionally moving sections and themes.

Overall, with the new sound system, this album by far makes the biggest positive leap on my list. 

[pcs90]

I just can't get into this album. True, they tried a lot of things that they normally wouldn't do (probably mostly MP's decision), but it just seems less like DT and more generic, especially a lot of the darker themes and MP's vocals (I can never take his metal vocals seriously). Forsaken isn't bad, and there are some nice instrumental sections (ITPOE part 1, CM, TMOLS) but I just can't get into it overall.

[Crow]

this is a very "ehhhh" album for me. I'm not huge on ItPoE but it has some cool moments. Forsaken is just boring. Constant Motion is an okay rocker but not special. The Dark Eternal Night is one of my least favorite DT songs at this point. But Repentance is great, for sure. Prophets of War is just very "there" and eeehhh. And I like TMOLS a fair bit, too.

no super strong points though and it could serve to have been shortened, especially ItPoE

[The Presence of Frenemies]

Clearly the peak of post-SFAM DT for me. And the band has never equaled the mammoth TMOLS/ITPOE combo on one album.

[Rodni Demental]

The whole problem with SC is found in ITPOE (for me), and it's not even the music but it leaves a weird impression of the whole album.

I was exposed to SC quite early after discovering DT and it's left a good impression for the most part. I don't have a problem with POW, I actually like the variety and change of style. Same with Repentance, that piece is a monster, and I wouldn't change a thing about it. But, I do see people mention it's bloated or needs trimming but, I think condensing it would miss the mark a bit with the whole mood and atmospheric soundscape thing that they're going for with that piece.

Love CM and Forsaken which seem to be balance each other out pretty well (heavy rocker and shorter ballad rocker), then TMOLS and TDEN are huge pieces that represent some of opposite extremes of DTs various styles.

Honestly, the weakest part of the whole album to me is the lyrics for ITPOE, part 2 specifically. Probably says more about me than anything else but I can only find it amusing for so long before I take it seriously and wish they had taken themselves more seriously on the subject. Considering I love TCOT with all it's silliness this isn't normally a problem for me but... It's the main reason I don't come back to this song (and indirectly the album) as much.

Don't get me wrong I still think ITPOE is an impressive composition, and the first part is killer (was a great decision to split it up in this way IMO). I'm not bothered by the 'fantasy' lyrics or the subject, I just don't enjoy the sort of comic narrative or at least don't find it as compelling as other 'story-like' DT song lyrics eg. 6DOIT/8vm hell even WDADU has more engaging narratives than ITPOE.

[CharlesPL]

Worst DT album ever

[Madman Shepherd]

One of my two favorites along with ADTOE.  While some songs on other albums rank higher than any song on Systematic Chaos, front to back I do not think there is a bad song at all.  It's got everything from the epic, to experimental (PoW & Repentance) to more mainstream (Forsaken).  I think it is their most solid work.

[fischermasamune]

No songs in SC are that great in the DT catalog (my personal best would be TDEN, which I rate around 20th-25th), and some are bottom 10 (Forsaken, POW). WDADU has the same problems. SC and WDADU are my bottom 2 albums.

At least if you skip Forsaken and POW (in your playlist) it becomes a decent experience from start to end.

[BlobVanDam]

I still overall enjoy this album more than anything that's come since; it's a fun and different kind of DT album. Not one of DT's best, but it's a welcome addition to their discography.

Worst DT album ever

That's impossible for as long as WDADU exists.

[jammindude]

Worst DT album ever

Agreed.

Even though the production on WDADU is gawd awful, at least the songs are decent.   SC doesn't even really have that going for it.  TDEN is the only song I ever revisit.  The rest is either ridiculous or boring.

[CharlesPL]

AFiL >>> ITPoE pt. 1
SS >>> Forsaken
TYJ >>> CM
TKH >>> TDEN
LFaGA >>> Repentance
Afterlife >>> PoW
TOWHtStS >>> TMoLS
OaMoT >>> Part II...

WDaDU >>>> SC

8:0

[BlobVanDam]

If I was feeling especially charitable towards WDADU, I'd put it 7:1 in favour of SC. Overall there's not even grounds for comparison with how embarrassingly bad WDADU is as an album.

[Zydar]

I liked this album a lot when I was getting into DT during 2007. But when I discovered their other albums, SC quickly fell down the favourites list.

Now I'd still rank it low - it's down there with WDADU and BCSL. It has two of my least favourite DT songs ever (Repentance and TMOLS).

[IDontNotDoThings]

Amazing album: honestly I like it a lot better than Octavarium, although I can understand why some people wouldn't like it. Overall I'd rank it #4/12.

AFiL >>> ITPoE pt. 1
SS >>> Forsaken
TYJ >>> CM
TKH >>> TDEN
LFaGA >>> Repentance
Afterlife >>> PoW
TOWHtStS >>> TMoLS
OaMoT >>> Part II...

WDaDU >>>> SC

8:0

So we're doing this now? Okay.
1. A Fortune In Lies < In The Presence Of Enemies I
2. Status Seeker < Forsaken
3. The Ytse Jam > Constant Motion
4. The Killing Hand < The Dark Eternal Night
5. Light Fuse & Get Away > Repentance
6. Afterlife > Prophets Of War
7. The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun < The Ministry Of Lost Souls
8. Only A Matter Of Time < In The Presence Of Enemies II
3:5

For the record, WD&DU is #8 on my list. It generally lurks around the "average" category while a lot of my favourite DT songs are from SC.

[Kotowboy]

When I was first getting into DT around 07 - I loved the first four songs way more. Then I loved the last four songs way more. And now I barely listen to any of it.

[SS_0086]

Having started listening to DT around 2006, SC was the first album that I waited for release. After first listen CM & TMOLS were my favorites. Over time ITPOE has become the main reason that I go back to listen to SC.

[Pax]

whoever thinks ITPOE pt 2 is a bad song, he should really start wondering why the hell he thinks he understands DT

[SS_0086]

whoever thinks ITPOE pt 2 is a bad song, he should really start wondering why the hell he thinks he understands DT

This

[BlackInk]

I love ItPoE, but to say that someone who doesn't like it doesn't "understand" DT? Come on..

[cramx3]

This is still near the bottom of my DT rankings, but ITPoE pt1 is the highlight for me, amazing intro.

[JediKnight1969]

Total grower for me. Not the best DT, but ItPoE (I & II), plus Forsaken and TMoLS are truly great songs. Love'em.

[As I Am]

Worst DT album ever

But still MUCH BETTER than 95% of everything else "out there"!

[CDrice]

I think it's a fine album. It's just that they I'd rather listen to their other ones most of the time.

And also Prophets of War is probably my favorite song on the album behind In The Presence of Enemies and The Dark Eternal Night 

[mikeyd23]

SC is weird for me, it definitely ranks near the bottom of DT albums IMO, but when I go back to it, there isn't a ton I don't like about it. ITPOE is awesome, I like CM, TDEN and Forsaken and I'm a fan of TMOLS... So really its a cool album, I just tend not to go back to it as much as most other DT albums.

[Outcrier]

Worst DT album ever

But still MUCH BETTER than 95% of everything else "out there"!

Nah.

[Siddhartha]

I love the album.

[hefdaddy42]

whoever thinks ITPOE pt 2 is a bad song, he should really start wondering why the hell he thinks he understands DT

Give me a break.

The album is OK.  It's definitely a good driving album, and fun to sing along to in the car.

But it doesn't have any depth.  It's the surface fun, but nothing more.

[Kotowboy]

We need Rob D Webster to come in and explain why it's a " fun little album ".


come back rob

[Train of Naught]

The album is OK.  It's definitely a good driving album, and fun to sing along to in the car.

But it doesn't have any depth.  It's the surface fun, but nothing more.

I think this pretty much sums it up for me, I always wondered why I tend to not go back to SC as much as some of the others, while still liking it a lot, but this explains it.

[TheCountOfNYC]

For me, only FII is worse. The biggest problem with SC for me is the flow. I like the songs on the album but the order in which they're placed really brings it down. ItPoE should have never been split. It's better as a whole piece. I usually don't shuffle around songs when listening to an album but this is an exception.

[TL]

Like a few people here, SC was the first DT album where I was around for the leadup (technically I got into them just before Octavarium came out, but SC was the first time I was a big fan prior to release). My opinion of it has gone all over the place over the last few years. I loved it when it came out, cooled on it quite a bit, then sort of rediscovered it.

At this point, for me, while I probably wouldn't rank it very highly among their albums, I do really enjoy it for what it is. I like that their discography has enough variety to it that a straight up ranking is pretty much impossible for me.

[kaos2900]

Easily my least favorite DT album. I remember when I first heard it I LOVED it but it was on the rare records that has gotten worse over time.

[Dublagent66]

whoever thinks ITPOE pt 2 is a bad song, he should really start wondering why the hell he thinks he understands DT

Give me a break.

The album is OK.  It's definitely a good driving album, and fun to sing along to in the car.

But it doesn't have any depth.  It's the surface fun, but nothing more.

It has depth.  All you have to do it look Beneath the Surface. 



It's a good album and I'll choose it over DT12 any day of the week and twice on Sunday. 

[Train of Naught]

I've come to like DT12 way better than I did on release, and it's now among my top half of DT albums, SC is probably #6 or 7, so maybe top half aswell.

[Dublagent66]

Even the songs I did like on DT12 (about 3 total) haven't really aged that well.  However, I still enjoy listening to SC from time to time.  They really are (for the most part)better songs with the exception of PoW of course.  That song is almost as bad as Illumination Theory.