Author Topic: Illegal Immigration into Europe  (Read 4584 times)

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Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #70 on: September 16, 2015, 05:27:49 AM »
Also I read that 75% of them are males... These demographics are concerning.

Do you have a source for this? All I found was an older report that said more women than men were fleeing, but that may have changed since then.

75% of them are men,

only 50% of arrivals are from Syria....

http://data.unhcr.org/mediterranean/regional.html

Ok on the men's quote, that obviously has changed from the data I had. But to conclude that now they are all ISIS fighters infiltrating Europe is kind of a stretch for me.

And right, they are not all from Syria but another 37% are from countries such as Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Eritrea, Sudan, Nigeria. All these countries have some conflict bordering on war/civil war going on, so they are not really fleeing for economic reasons, they are refugees from war.

And from the same site:

Quote
Increasing numbers of refugees and migrants take their chances aboard unseaworthy boats and dinghies in a desperate bid to reach Europe. The vast majority of those attempting this dangerous crossing are in need of international protection, fleeing war, violence and persecution in their country of origin. Every year these movements continue to exact a devastating toll on human life.

So what do we do? Seeing their need but hoping they bleed on someone else's carpet, go to someone else's door?

Offline vtgrad

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #71 on: September 16, 2015, 07:38:34 AM »
The world is becoming a joke and it seems at times like the 'tolerant' are just intolerant of people with opposing view points!
Bingo.

I'll third that... nice to hear somebody else verbalize that feeling (not speaking of our community here, just the general population).

That photo of the Jordanian camp does indeed look like district 9; and having been there myself and experienced the arid, dry lowlands that I assume is the location of those photos, I can only hope that they have plenty of water and some sort of climate control.
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter; Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."  Ecclesiastes 12:13

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Offline cramx3

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #72 on: September 16, 2015, 07:46:48 AM »
I don't believe you are a racisct if you prefer your country not to accept people who will drain your resources.  I know it is not humane, but I think you have the right to have that opinion.  I can't help but think about how this will hurt Europe, but at the same time, you can't just let people die.  I have no ideas of a solution other than dreamy scenarios that are not realistic.

Saudi Arabia Has 100,000 Air Conditioned Tents That Can House 3 Million People, which are used for 5 days a year and are currently empty...



wtf  ???

Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #73 on: September 16, 2015, 07:56:50 AM »
How the arabian countries handle the crises that's at their doorstep is a crying shame. Maybe we should stop selling them weapons and telling them that they are our friends?

The tents in that picture are for the Mekka-pilgrims. If they were used for refugees and the pilgrims were told that they can't come because the tents are occupied, you would have an explosion in the middle east where every conflict up ntil now would seem like a struggle between children.

On the other Saudi Arabia sure has the money to build a similar camp for refugees.

Online El Barto

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #74 on: September 16, 2015, 08:14:03 AM »
How the arabian countries handle the crises that's at their doorstep is a crying shame. Maybe we should stop selling them weapons and telling them that they are our friends?

The tents in that picture are for the Mekka-pilgrims. If they were used for refugees and the pilgrims were told that they can't come because the tents are occupied, you would have an explosion in the middle east where every conflict up ntil now would seem like a struggle between children.


On the other Saudi Arabia sure has the money to build a similar camp for refugees.
That's what I was thinking. I believe the Hajj begins any day now. That said, I doubt you'll see those tents suddenly opened up for refugees next month when they're no longer needed.
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Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #75 on: September 16, 2015, 08:30:27 AM »
That said, I doubt you'll see those tents suddenly opened up for refugees next month when they're no longer needed.

Not gonna happen, sadly.

Offline jonnybaxy

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #76 on: September 16, 2015, 01:56:09 PM »
Hajj lasts for around 5 days (I think)

What about the other 360?


The reason I'm cynical about this is the fact that I'm almost positive that the people crossing the borders will either

A) Get a free EU citizenship status or;
B) Disappear of the radar completely

The UK is having a referendum sin the coming years on whether to stay part of the EU, the reason this has come up is because of the EU's ridiculous immigration laws and freedom of movement acts. The current government in the UK is against leaving, as many governments of EU states are, but the populations are pushing for it,

Why do they think by opening the doors to the people crossing the Mediterranean could possibly help their case when immigration has become the largest influencing policy of the last elections?

Offline cramx3

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #77 on: September 16, 2015, 02:02:46 PM »
Why do they think by opening the doors to the people crossing the Mediterranean could possibly help their case when immigration has become the largest influencing policy of the last elections?

I think they know it's not going to help by opening the doors, but it will save lives so there is a good reason to help as possible, but the problem is so big that it's just not so simple.  Apparently Germany realized many refugees are not from Syria which has caused Germany to stop taking in refugees for the time being until they can sort this out which has the chain reaction of leaving refugees stranded and then they are rioting in Hungary therefore getting teargassed.  The situation is crazy and sad.

Offline jonnybaxy

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #78 on: September 16, 2015, 02:07:40 PM »
Why do they think by opening the doors to the people crossing the Mediterranean could possibly help their case when immigration has become the largest influencing policy of the last elections?

I think they know it's not going to help by opening the doors, but it will save lives so there is a good reason to help as possible, but the problem is so big that it's just not so simple.  Apparently Germany realized many refugees are not from Syria which has caused Germany to stop taking in refugees for the time being until they can sort this out which has the chain reaction of leaving refugees stranded and then they are rioting in Hungary therefore getting teargassed.  The situation is crazy and sad.

Hungary have erected a large razor blade fence, which upon crossing is either detention or exportation.

The main problem is by opening the gates to some, you only invite more, making the situation worse... It's a tough one for sure!

Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #79 on: September 17, 2015, 12:08:01 AM »
The UK is having a referendum sin the coming years on whether to stay part of the EU, the reason this has come up is because of the EU's ridiculous immigration laws and freedom of movement acts. The current government in the UK is against leaving, as many governments of EU states are, but the populations are pushing for it,

This is the first time that I hear that this is the main reason, I thought it was the likes of payments for european activities and membership fees, not enough influence on some of the decisions, not being bound by european relegations etc.

I think leaving would be a big mistake, but if the UK wants to then please just go and see if it's better that way.

Apparently Germany realized many refugees are not from Syria which has caused Germany to stop taking in refugees for the time being until they can sort this out which has the chain reaction of leaving refugees stranded and then they are rioting in Hungary therefore getting teargassed.  The situation is crazy and sad.

It's not that many refugees aren't from Syria, it's more that the big numbers that were coming to Germany the last weeks can't be handled in such a short time. So the politicains decided to close the borders again to get some breating room.

The sad thing is, that this could have been foreseen some time ago by all european countries but nobody really cared and so nobody really had a plan when the crisis hit.

I still can't believe that an European Union with more than 500 million people isn't able (or probably doesn't want to in most cases) to help or take in these refugees.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #80 on: September 17, 2015, 08:33:45 AM »
The sad thing is, that this could have been foreseen some time ago by all european countries but nobody really cared and so nobody really had a plan when the crisis hit.

I still can't believe that an European Union with more than 500 million people isn't able (or probably doesn't want to in most cases) to help or take in these refugees.

Well there is certainly the aspect of  countries just not wanting to help out, but it's also the fact that its happening so quickly with so much people that when you add in uncooperative states you get a mess where the refugees are stuck in the middle.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #81 on: September 17, 2015, 08:48:53 AM »
The sad thing is, that this could have been foreseen some time ago by all european countries but nobody really cared and so nobody really had a plan when the crisis hit.

I still can't believe that an European Union with more than 500 million people isn't able (or probably doesn't want to in most cases) to help or take in these refugees.

Well there is certainly the aspect of  countries just not wanting to help out, but it's also the fact that its happening so quickly with so much people that when you add in uncooperative states you get a mess where the refugees are stuck in the middle.

Well, I've stayed clear of this simply because I don't have much to offer specifically, but this line of dialogue is not complete without at least a passing mention that there is a third option:  These countries are tired of footing the bill for what are essentially (for them) petty squabbles, when other countries who actually have skin in the game - and have the resources to help - stand there and turn a blind eye.  Has the UAE taken in any refugees?   Saudi Arabia?

I get it: save the people and worry about the cost later, and while I wouldn't go that far, I understand and accept that mentality.  But at some point, is it that unreasonable to ask the people who make the mess (or who are privy to the mess) actually foot the bill for cleaning it up?

Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #82 on: September 17, 2015, 09:02:02 AM »
To say that Europe (and Russia and the US) have nothing to do with the ongoing meltdown that is the middle east region isn't telling the whole truth. And even if it would be so, the Europeans (and the Russians and the US) should use their influence and their power to "convince" Saudi Arabia, UAE and other countries to rethink their refugee politics.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #83 on: September 17, 2015, 09:10:26 AM »
Totally agree that the "west" shouldn't have to bear all of the refugees.  We played a role in the cause and should accept that in allowing refugees to come, but the middle east as a whole is MORE responsible and should also be bearing this burden.  I don't know how you force them though.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #84 on: September 17, 2015, 09:39:46 AM »
To say that Europe (and Russia and the US) have nothing to do with the ongoing meltdown that is the middle east region isn't telling the whole truth. And even if it would be so, the Europeans (and the Russians and the US) should use their influence and their power to "convince" Saudi Arabia, UAE and other countries to rethink their refugee politics.

Sorry, don't let my brevity imply that we (the western collective you mentioned) are that far removed; I think you should read what I said as being "relative".   My point is only that ideologically, the Saudi's, et al, have a lot to gain by showing compassion and solidarity to the refugee movement, and RELATIVELY SPEAKING they are not spending a dime to alleviate the situation.

The globe is finite; to some degree, we're all complicit in one way or another.  I'm just saying that there aren't just two separate, discrete explanations.  It's a complex, complicated situation.

Online El Barto

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #85 on: September 17, 2015, 01:16:41 PM »
But the fact is that the UAE isn't going to get involved, and whether or not it's because of valid reasons, indifference or they're just a bunch of assholes doesn't change the reality of the situation. I agree completely that this should be an Arab matter, but I don't think ignoring the suffering of people that we're somewhat responsible for, just out of sheer principle over Saudi Arabia's neglect, is reasonable.
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Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #86 on: September 18, 2015, 12:11:35 AM »
The globe is finite; to some degree, we're all complicit in one way or another.  I'm just saying that there aren't just two separate, discrete explanations.  It's a complex, complicated situation.

I can agree to that.

But the fact is that the UAE isn't going to get involved, and whether or not it's because of valid reasons, indifference or they're just a bunch of assholes doesn't change the reality of the situation. I agree completely that this should be an Arab matter, but I don't think ignoring the suffering of people that we're somewhat responsible for, just out of sheer principle over Saudi Arabia's neglect, is reasonable.

This is what I'm trying to say all the time.

And maybe (probably) I'm naive, but I think that in helping these people you show the whole arabian region that the west isn't that bad as their religious leaders like to claim. I remember seeing a photo of a demonstration in Iran or Iraq where the participants showed pictures of Merkel (the german chancellor) that said "thank you". While this is not much it is certainly better than burning flags.

Offline jonnybaxy

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #87 on: September 18, 2015, 06:30:42 AM »
And here's what the Germans think about Merkel now!

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=82e_1441931933

Offline cramx3

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #88 on: September 18, 2015, 06:31:44 AM »
I would imagine the refugees migrating to Europe or "west" are not the ones who hate America and the rest of western civilization, but like I said, that is just what I would imagine, not necessarily reality.

Offline jonnybaxy

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #89 on: September 18, 2015, 06:47:24 AM »
I would imagine the refugees migrating to Europe or "west" are not the ones who hate America and the rest of western civilization, but like I said, that is just what I would imagine, not necessarily reality.

I'm still holding on to the idea that the people migrating are potential members of ISIS,

As they are unchecked and no checks, this is a valid possibility, with well known members being found all the time trying to blend in.

Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #90 on: September 18, 2015, 06:55:16 AM »
And here's what the Germans think about Merkel now!

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=82e_1441931933

This is what some germans think. Does that make Merkel right or wrong?

Last week 2/3 of Germany were of the opinion that Merkel's decision to let the refugees in was right, and she is the second best politician with a note of 2,4 on a scale of +5 to -5.

Source (sorry, only in german): http://www.heute.de/zwei-drittel-finden-einreiseerlaubnis-fuer-fluechtlinge-aus-ungarn-richtig-40060938.html

And then, not surprisingly, we have the extreme right who are completely against it.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #91 on: September 18, 2015, 07:45:02 AM »
And maybe (probably) I'm naive, but I think that in helping these people you show the whole arabian region that the west isn't that bad as their religious leaders like to claim. I remember seeing a photo of a demonstration in Iran or Iraq where the participants showed pictures of Merkel (the german chancellor) that said "thank you". While this is not much it is certainly better than burning flags.

Right answer, wrong reasons.  Says me, the Grand Poobah.   Haha, I'm kidding.

Seriously, I agree with that, but purely for humanitarian reasons.  I don't want to see anyone die that doesn't have to.  But I have no illusions that the Arab community will see that as a good thing (think about it:  they clearly don't see the wisdom of helping just for the sake of helping, because they are NOT themselves) and it will be rationalized into another way to hate the west. 

Also, and again, not to say we shouldn't take any refugees, but I would expect it is a given that there will be ISIS members in that group.  There's a story I once heard about a condom shaped like a horse, and someone smuggled something into another country using that horse-shaped condom... or something like that.   

Offline cramx3

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #92 on: September 18, 2015, 07:47:54 AM »
Also, and again, not to say we shouldn't take any refugees, but I would expect it is a given that there will be ISIS members in that group.  There's a story I once heard about a condom shaped like a horse, and someone smuggled something into another country using that horse-shaped condom... or something like that.   

 :lol

Offline cramx3

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #93 on: September 18, 2015, 07:59:33 AM »
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mfonobongnsehe/2015/09/04/egyptian-billionaire-offers-to-buy-mediterranean-island-for-refugees/

Well that's a different solution.  No idea how serious he is or how practical that solution is, but at least it's a proposed thoughtful idea.

Online El Barto

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #94 on: September 18, 2015, 11:40:47 AM »
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mfonobongnsehe/2015/09/04/egyptian-billionaire-offers-to-buy-mediterranean-island-for-refugees/

Well that's a different solution.  No idea how serious he is or how practical that solution is, but at least it's a proposed thoughtful idea.
That's an intriguing idea. The problem is the time frame involved. They're already used to living in shantytowns, so that wouldn't be an issue, but they'll still need food and water which will have to be shipped or flown in, and the infrastructure for that can't happen overnight. However, that does seem like exactly the sort of thing that the corps could probably make happen PDQ.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #95 on: September 18, 2015, 12:02:54 PM »
We can have Syrian Refugee Survivor.   They can find their own water and clothes, and anyone who doesn't renounce ISIS gets voted off the island.







Too soon?

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #96 on: September 19, 2015, 08:51:09 AM »
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mfonobongnsehe/2015/09/04/egyptian-billionaire-offers-to-buy-mediterranean-island-for-refugees/

Well that's a different solution.  No idea how serious he is or how practical that solution is, but at least it's a proposed thoughtful idea.
That's an intriguing idea. The problem is the time frame involved. They're already used to living in shantytowns, so that wouldn't be an issue, but they'll still need food and water which will have to be shipped or flown in, and the infrastructure for that can't happen overnight. However, that does seem like exactly the sort of thing that the corps could probably make happen PDQ.

EB for the bolded text....were you talking Army Corps of Engineers? If so, I don't think America should be involved in any way. No money donated....no man power. Nothing. We've been slammed non stop over and over by 'the world' for getting involved and trying to help 'the world' become a better place so I'd give the world their wish and let them figure it out themselves. Besides, Obama's Foreign policy decisions have been horrendous....and in fact I'd say history is going to prove he's been the worst to date in that aspect....so I don't trust a single choice his administration would make concerning 'helping' that build up of people.
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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #97 on: September 19, 2015, 11:30:52 AM »
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mfonobongnsehe/2015/09/04/egyptian-billionaire-offers-to-buy-mediterranean-island-for-refugees/

Well that's a different solution.  No idea how serious he is or how practical that solution is, but at least it's a proposed thoughtful idea.
That's an intriguing idea. The problem is the time frame involved. They're already used to living in shantytowns, so that wouldn't be an issue, but they'll still need food and water which will have to be shipped or flown in, and the infrastructure for that can't happen overnight. However, that does seem like exactly the sort of thing that the corps could probably make happen PDQ.

EB for the bolded text....were you talking Army Corps of Engineers? If so, I don't think America should be involved in any way. No money donated....no man power. Nothing. We've been slammed non stop over and over by 'the world' for getting involved and trying to help 'the world' become a better place so I'd give the world their wish and let them figure it out themselves. Besides, Obama's Foreign policy decisions have been horrendous....and in fact I'd say history is going to prove he's been the worst to date in that aspect....so I don't trust a single choice his administration would make concerning 'helping' that build up of people.
Yes I was.

I disagree with you for numerous reasons (although I'm not fond at all of getting involved in). First off, thanks to a foolhardy foreign policy blunder (not Obama's) I consider us to have a great deal of responsibility for the current refugee crisis. These people are pottery, and if we actually held the same values we insist everybody else should, we'd be taking some responsibility for what's going on. Second, I consider Obama's foreign policy wrongly maligned. It hasn't been perfect, but it hasn't been nearly as bad as people think. For the most part we're attempting a halfway pragmatic isolationist strategy. Seems to me the biggest criticisms are not doing more to keep Putin out of Crimea, though I haven't heard any ideas for how to do that, not doing enough to stop ISIL (same caveat), and getting involved in Libya, and I like the way we handled that. I'm just not keen on blasting foreign policy if you can't offer up another option. Lastly, if this were a hurricane or earthquake we'd have already been there with a monumental amount of supplies and assistance. I get the distinction here, and I wouldn't recommend trying to create an American solution to the problem, but if the private sector wants to create a solution I'd say lending some support of the nature that only we can offer wouldn't' be unreasonable. 
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Offline Rick

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #98 on: September 20, 2015, 06:31:51 AM »
Hey, hey, jonnybaxy: I'm in the UK, I used to live in Bolton, and I work in an immigration-based job. I worked with asylum seekers for a short while too.

Every single post of yours made me wince. It's like The Daily Mail and UKIP personified.

Read more objective things about the middle-east, and not bad right-wing journalistic propaganda things. I fear you're missing a helluva lot of context and history in your thinking. It's not as simple as "refugees should be able to go to nearby countries" [paraphrase] - the nearby countries would be just as dangerous and oppressive. Ever see what the Turks did the the Armenians?

ISIS smuggling in pro-ISIS people with the refugees? Yeah, that's Britain First and EDL posts on FB mostly propagating that myth. HEY LOOK, it's Ice Cube, the rapper: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/satirical-facebook-post-featuring-rap-6473548

At the very least, please use the right words when referring to people - it's really offensive otherwise: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34061097 - can the mods please change the title of this thread?
Figures on 'net migration' of 600k are silly things to quote:
EU citizens have free-movement, and the UK cannot control who decides to move over. Equally, other EU countries can't control if a bunch of Brits want to move there. They are still counted in those '600k' statistics.
- Non-EU migrants have controls on their movement. Have you ever looked through the hoops they have to jump through? People can come on work visas, or student visas, or visit visas. There are marriage/family visas too, if they happen to be married to a Brit. People who have the means to enter the UK legally are often from moderately stable and OK-ish countries. Those who leave an OK-ish country for a better way of life and circumvent the legal immigration routes to settle in the UK, and aren't fleeing from some terrible situation in their home country are the 'economic migrants' or 'illegal immigrants' - however, there's no distinction between them and the EU citizens aside from the fact that one group was born in the 'right' place, and one was born in the 'wrong' place.
- Refugees are those fleeing their homes. They are refugees until the point they reach a safe country. Then they claim asylum. They are an asylum seeker whilst they are awaiting their claim to be processed. After this they are either a failed asylum seeker, or are granted asylum. The vast majority of refugees are human beings genuinely fleeing a terrible situation in their home country [a situation likely partially created by decades of shitty 'interventions'* by western countries]. The failed asylum seekers are still human beings, also.

* illegal wars and propping up shitty dictatorships to create temporarily stable countries so the west can continue to attain cheap oil, plus supplying middle-eastern countries with weapons so they can fight amongst themselves in ways that suit the west, all the while supporting Israel 's existence [1917 - Britain's Balfour Declaration. 1923 - British Mandate for Palestine. UK has no responsibility towards these people? Eh?!] and not putting much effort into preventing their repression of the Palestinians which has caused a ridiculous amount of the instability in the middle-east.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2015, 09:05:21 AM by Rick »

Offline Genowyn

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #99 on: September 20, 2015, 01:37:06 PM »
It's really not a matter of PC or not. These are legally distinct terms.

...my name is Araragi.

Offline jonnybaxy

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #100 on: September 20, 2015, 02:59:54 PM »
I live in Bolton,

Firstly, most of the things I've claimed as fact which I have posted here, I have backed up with sources.

I can go ahead and say your post is like reading the independent and the green party's news bulletin, but you only said it to try and gain some kind of moral high ground, which I will not provide.

Secondly, if you read my posts properly (I even underlined it) I said "Potential members of ISIS" which a few people here agreed with me on as these people are unchecked and unknown, so it's not really a ridiculous statement.

I have been using the same terms as the BBC. They are referred to as migrants because they are neither processed nor in possession of the documentation for refugee status.

Again if you read my previous posts I stated that our intervention in the middle east should not exist.

Please, in the future, I would prefer if you didn't try and speak down to me and try to seem morally superior as your opinion has no more weight than mine does

Offline Rick

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #101 on: September 21, 2015, 04:30:57 AM »
I can go ahead and say your post is like reading the independent and the green party's news bulletin, but you only said it to try and gain some kind of moral high ground, which I will not provide.

Secondly, if you read my posts properly (I even underlined it) I said "Potential members of ISIS" which a few people here agreed with me on as these people are unchecked and unknown, so it's not really a ridiculous statement.

Independent's owned by a posh Russian guy who's friends with David Cameron. They're a pretty centrist paper. The only reason I check it is for Robert Fisk articles.

Just from Syria - 4 million refugees.Yeah, there's a CHANCE there may be a couple of pro-ISIS people amongst them, but that doesn't mean the other 3999998 humans aren't people in desperate need. Pro-ISIS people could come over through 'legit' channels too; it's not too terribly hard for them to get a work or student visa [and would probably result in less checks... students aren't subject to a grilling about all details of their life]; ISIS have enough funds to be able to afford the application fees. The 4 pilots in 9/11 went to get trained how to fly planes in the USA years before, thanks to Bin-Laden's funds. It's ridiculous scare-mongering - if people have fears about refugees being pro-ISIS, then they'd surely apply that to every single person of middle-eastern origin that's traveled to Europe through whichever route.... and that's just getting silly, and you're smearing all Syrians/muslims with the idea that they're all [potential] terrorists.

Enjoy your life  :tup
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 05:43:43 AM by Rick »

Offline cramx3

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #102 on: September 21, 2015, 10:26:33 AM »
So much for discussion

In terms of changing the thread title, I think we all know most of the people are "refugees" but the moment they break through a country's borders illegally (which they have done) then I think that makes it illegal immigration right?  legit question since the terminology used seems to be a problem.

Offline Rick

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #103 on: September 21, 2015, 10:55:52 AM »
So much for discussion

In terms of changing the thread title, I think we all know most of the people are "refugees" but the moment they break through a country's borders illegally (which they have done) then I think that makes it illegal immigration right?  legit question since the terminology used seems to be a problem.

It's not illegal to seek or claim asylum. People travel to their destination country, then immediately make an asylum claim. You can't make an asylum claim (at least in the UK) whilst still abroad.

http://www.unhcr.org.uk/about-us/the-uk-and-asylum.html

"What is a bogus asylum seeker?
There is no such thing as a bogus asylum seeker or an illegal asylum seeker. As an asylum seeker, a person has entered into a legal process of refugee status determination. Everybody has a right to seek asylum in another country. People who don't qualify for protection as refugees will not receive refugee status and may be deported, but just because someone doesn't receive refugee status doesn't mean they are a bogus asylum seeker.

Let us remember that a bogus asylum-seeker is not equivalent to a criminal; and that an unsuccessful asylum application is not equivalent to a bogus one - Kofi Annan
"

Offline cramx3

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Re: Illegal Immigration into Europe
« Reply #104 on: September 21, 2015, 11:41:48 AM »
So much for discussion

In terms of changing the thread title, I think we all know most of the people are "refugees" but the moment they break through a country's borders illegally (which they have done) then I think that makes it illegal immigration right?  legit question since the terminology used seems to be a problem.

It's not illegal to seek or claim asylum. People travel to their destination country, then immediately make an asylum claim. You can't make an asylum claim (at least in the UK) whilst still abroad.

But once you illegally cross a border such as Hungary, even if the reason is asylum, then does that make it illegal?  Why else would they be putting up fences?  Your link is only for the UK's stance on asylum so them saying no such thing is an illegal asylum does not mean it is the same for another country.