Women who like Dream Theater

[Enalya]

Orbert, thanks for your reply. Yes, it's probably true more often than not (although I'm curious about the percentage). I see less woman at DT, but for example, half of the people I see at Paganfest (pagan metal festival with mostly heavier music than DT) are female.

And you have to admit in return that how it happened with your wife could well be the other way around. You see it in the world: so many men go for the mainstream/less loud music as well. It could've been her loving it and you not. Of course, we can look at the numbers with everything, but then again, I prefer to see each human as a person and not as a gender.

(Note: I don't mind people listening to mainstream music or if woman listen to heavy music or not, love 's for everyone! : p)

[Stadler]

Enalya, you have a point.  It's sexist for guys to think that girls will only like the less heavy or more mainstream songs.  But you have to admit, it's probably true more often than not.  While there are girls who are into metal and heavier rock, they're the exceptions.  Guys tend to play the percentages, go with what seems will have the best chance.

I get it, but that's true of anything.  If my wife liked big sloppy cheese steaks over a nice Caesar salad, I'd be an idiot to try to convince her that the xyz restaurant is to die for because of the argula salad.   Because I know her.  That's just common courtesy.  But if I DIDN'T know her, it's not the most egregious crime in the world to devise a playlist over what the odds say are the most likely songs she might like.  That's not "sexist" - discriminating negatively against someone because of their gender - any more than saying to a guy you don't know well "hey let's go grab a beer".   I don't hear too many guys say "hey, let's go grabs some zinfandels" unless and until they know that's what the other guy prefers. Are you going to be wrong occasionally? Sure.   

I know for me, for my wife, any hope of her liking Dream Theater is exactly tied to whether she likes something like "This Is The Life". 

[Calvin6s]

6. What, in your opinion, is the best Dream Theater song for introducing a women to the world of DT? 
Depends on the woman.

You can come up with generalities that hold merit.  DT concerts are a sausage fest, so it stands to reason that it will be more difficult to find a female DT fan.  Maybe less so in Europe?  And I've had females complain more about guitar heavy instrumental sections than males.  On more than one occasions in the 90s, Megadeth's Holy Wars came on (video or radio) and more than one female said "My god.  Is the song ever going to start (the singing) or is this just going to go on forever?"  So I think the generality applies.

But then you have the real world situation.  I don't just spot a woman across a room, know nothing about her, walk up with my smartphone over my head blaring "Eve" a la Cusack.  Although maybe I should.  Sometimes not taking yourself seriously can be a great icebreaker.   

In reality, you are talking about a woman you already know.  It usually doesn't take long to hear the type of music they listen to.  Either they are playing it at their home, car or elsewhere.  Or maybe they mentioned some artists they like.  And *convert* usually means you are in your car or some other place where you are going to play some of your music and you simply take into consideration what your passenger(s) might like from your collection based off what you heard of theirs.

Really has nothing to do with gender.

[ToT-147]

So yeah, personality matters, and generalizing can be bad, but generalizations are also generally true.

Nailed it..

[Rattlehead]

Do they actually exist? Because I've never met one 

[cramx3]

Do they actually exist? Because I've never met one 

Yes, few and far between from my experience.  Im luck to be seeing one at the moment. 

[Darkstarshades]

I made a thread at a One Direction forum. I titled it "Boys who like One Direction"
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Got plenty of answers quickly.
That has to mean nothing... right?

[Cyclopssss]

Let´s face it. Dream Theater was never a ´sexy´ band. Go and check the female responses on the Ghost fb page for comparisson.

[Enalya]

Let´s face it. Dream Theater was never a ´sexy´ band. Go and check the female responses on the Ghost fb page for comparisson.

Really? I'd say especially their 90's time was quite hot :>
But seriously, it should be about the music right!

[Krissi91]

Let´s face it. Dream Theater was never a ´sexy´ band. Go and check the female responses on the Ghost fb page for comparisson.

Really? I'd say especially their 90's time was quite hot :>
But seriously, it should be about the music right!

Good to see another female DT fan on here
Personally, I sadly know very few women who like them. Although, at the last concert I attended there was a high percentage present, so that was a nice surprise because at the previous shows there were at least 90% men in the audience.

And I agree, the looks of a band don't matter at all when the music is great. DT is no boy band!

[r0cken]

C'mon, DT - not a sexy band?
Think about all the 80s hair bands and their armies of groupies that loved the long hair, the guitar solos and the sappy ballads.
Now take DT circa 1992 - long haired dudes, great guitar playing, sappy ballads (Surrounded/Another Day). BAM. Sexy.
Trust me, I know.
Even all instrumental guitar wankery can be sexy. Ask Vai. You just have to know how to sell it.

[Enalya]

Krissi, likewise! But few people around me like DT anyway That's why I lurk on DTF lol

Yes, the amount of females at the two concerts I attended wasn't bad. I also saw JLB say in an interview that they see more and more females attending. Anyway, although it's nice to see, I don't really mind more males/females, since all my focus is on the music.

Hahaha SUCH A BOY BAND
Speaking about that though, there is a Facebook page named 'John Petrucci's Beard' where they're fangirling all over.

[Calvin6s]

DT had to wait for first generation fans (99% male) to have daughters just to get women to the concerts.   

[pcs90]

But few people around me like DT anyway That's why I lurk on DTF lol

That's how it is for me too, I don't know many people who really like them in person.

Yes, the amount of females at the two concerts I attended wasn't bad. I also saw JLB say in an interview that they see more and more females attending.

I also remember an interview with MM saying that more females were attending shows.

Speaking about that though, there is a Facebook page named 'John Petrucci's Beard' where they're fangirling all over.

His beard has its own facebook page? I'm really amused by this haha.

[jammindude]

Okay, gotta let off some steam here..

Looking at answers to the last question, many of you just suggest SLOW and more MAINSTREAM songs (The Spirit Carries On, Hollow Years, Wait For Sleep - I like these, don't get me wrong).
But please. The first song I heard of DT and that instantly made me a fan was A Nightmare To Remember. And I especially love the heavy stuff (ToT etc.). Don't only feed woman the soft sound, because 1: they don't always like that better and 2: only that doesn't give the idea of what DT is.

Just please look at ones personality, not gender : )

I've never looked at heaviness as a factor...but what I *have* noticed is that (as a general rule, not speaking of you specifically) women tend to like "catchier" stuff.  And in the case of Dream Theater, most of their "catchy" stuff tends to be their ballads.   There are exceptions.   Another good first song (for most) would probably be Forsaken.   

In my experience, I've just noticed a greater percentage of men tend to gravitate towards music that is challenging to listen to.  Music that does not just lay down a groove, but forces you to go "what the hell are they doing there?"     Women (again, generally speaking) seem to tend to find that approach to music very off putting.

[r0cken]

There are different kinds of challenging music.
I admit I always look for groove and melody. I love me some complex, challenging music as long as there's some combination of memorable groove and melody in it. The most challenging for me probably being Strapping Young Lad. But I can't listen to Meshuggah or Slayer, because it has little to no melody that my ears can decypher.

I assume men feed on the raw energy in heavier genres (thrash, death metal, grindcore, etc). It's an outlet for aggression. Women are usually less aggressive, thus have less interest in such music.

Dream Theater though, is a very melodic band, even in their most complex moments. There shouldn't really be a problem for anybody to listen to them. Providing that "anybody" is into rock music at all...

[Enalya]

^ Good point. One thing though, I don't know if it's always an outlet for aggression to men - I actually hope not. I do love the raw energy sound because it stirs a sort of cool emotion in me which I can't explain too well, but I never feel it as being aggressive. I never become aggressive from it. It just gives me so much energy to then release in headbanging Or biking/driving too hard.

I agree on the melody part and that DT is always melodic, 's what I love about it.

[cramx3]

Im totally the same, I need melody in my music.  It can be aggressive or not, but without melody then it's not going to interest me.  DT is great because whether they are heavy or light or progressive or whatever, they are always very melodic.

[pcs90]

Dream Theater though, is a very melodic band, even in their most complex moments. There shouldn't really be a problem for anybody to listen to them. Providing that "anybody" is into rock music at all...

That's why I love them. I really don't care much for most metal or other really heavier genres because a lot of it just sounds like noise to me. DT has found a way to make even those really heavy songs melodic for the most part and there is so much to discover in their music...it's very hard for me to ever get bored of it!

[Enalya]

Speaking about that though, there is a Facebook page named 'John Petrucci's Beard' where they're fangirling all over.

His beard has its own facebook page? I'm really amused by this haha.

Yes haha. For every DT guy there's a female admin to worship him with pictures and such. I spotted it while looking for DT fan pages So yes, they are out there lol.

[pcs90]

Yes haha. For every DT guy there's a female admin to worship him with pictures and such. I spotted it while looking for DT fan pages So yes, they are out there lol.

Yeah, after you had posted that before I had to go on facebook and search for it. Definitely different! haha

[vtgrad]

My wife LOVES DT... her favorite song (or movement in a song ) is The Test that Stumped them All.  I've slowly, over 17- years together and eight wonderful years of marriage, turned her into a bit of a metal-head.  She's going to see Symphony X with me in October (which I consider an achievement) and we've been to Scores (see what I did there... and we were at the Score show) of other shows like Staind, Alter Bridge, Def Leppard, Scale the Summit, Animals As Leaders, BTBAM, etcetera.  Out of all the shows we've been to though, DT rules them all.  We've seen at least one show from every tour since TOT... it's something we share together.

[jammindude]

^ Good point. One thing though, I don't know if it's always an outlet for aggression to men - I actually hope not. I do love the raw energy sound because it stirs a sort of cool emotion in me which I can't explain too well, but I never feel it as being aggressive. I never become aggressive from it. It just gives me so much energy to then release in headbanging Or biking/driving too hard.

I agree on the melody part and that DT is always melodic, 's what I love about it.

Slight twist in the topic, but still relevant...   Do you listen to some of the more "chaotic" bands that are frequented in these parts, or know any women who are?  Stuff like Between the Buried and Me?   

[Enalya]

^ Good point. One thing though, I don't know if it's always an outlet for aggression to men - I actually hope not. I do love the raw energy sound because it stirs a sort of cool emotion in me which I can't explain too well, but I never feel it as being aggressive. I never become aggressive from it. It just gives me so much energy to then release in headbanging Or biking/driving too hard.

I agree on the melody part and that DT is always melodic, 's what I love about it.

Slight twist in the topic, but still relevant...   Do you listen to some of the more "chaotic" bands that are frequented in these parts, or know any women who are?  Stuff like Between the Buried and Me?

Well, I listen to a lot of Pagan Metal like Wintersun, Equilibrium, Eluveitie, Finntroll which are quite raw and heavy (though melodic). I have not checked BTBAM out tbh. I'm really into symphonic, progressive and pagan. And half of that audience is female (at least in The Netherlands). Why so? ^^
And you?

[jammindude]

^ Good point. One thing though, I don't know if it's always an outlet for aggression to men - I actually hope not. I do love the raw energy sound because it stirs a sort of cool emotion in me which I can't explain too well, but I never feel it as being aggressive. I never become aggressive from it. It just gives me so much energy to then release in headbanging Or biking/driving too hard.

I agree on the melody part and that DT is always melodic, 's what I love about it.

Slight twist in the topic, but still relevant...   Do you listen to some of the more "chaotic" bands that are frequented in these parts, or know any women who are?  Stuff like Between the Buried and Me?

Well, I listen to a lot of Pagan Metal like Wintersun, Equilibrium, Eluveitie, Finntroll which are quite raw and heavy (though melodic). I have not checked BTBAM out tbh. I'm really into symphonic, progressive and pagan. And half of that audience is female (at least in The Netherlands). Why so? ^^
And you?

This topic just seems to be related to the bigger issue of why many prog-rock bands tend to male dominant in their audience.  Past conclusions have been that it has to do with aggression of the music, but I think this discussion has proven that that is not truly the case.    I'm wondering if instead it may have to do with "melody" vs the more "chaotic" approach.     I think human beings in general tend to prefer the melodic over something that you have to pull out a slide ruler (showing my age with that term) to figure out what time signature the band is in.    But when you do get to the latter type of music, women tend to be nearly non-existent.     I'm wondering if this has to do with "feel" vs "analytical".      Again...this forum proves that men are not immune from judging music by "feel".   But the analytical crowd seems on the surface to be extremely male oriented.   

[Calvin6s]

"You can't dance to this."

That pretty much sums it up along gender lines (in the USA at least).  Guys seem to be split 50/50 on that necessity and women seem to be more like 90/10.  And over the past 20 years, I'd say the guys seem to be moving more to the "You can't dance to this" camp.

Lessen (or take away) the melody and now not only can't you dance to it, but "this is just noise."

The ratios may have changed (for dudes), but it has been the same reason for at least my entire lifetime.

[Enalya]

This topic just seems to be related to the bigger issue of why many prog-rock bands tend to male dominant in their audience.  Past conclusions have been that it has to do with aggression of the music, but I think this discussion has proven that that is not truly the case.    I'm wondering if instead it may have to do with "melody" vs the more "chaotic" approach.     I think human beings in general tend to prefer the melodic over something that you have to pull out a slide ruler (showing my age with that term) to figure out what time signature the band is in.    But when you do get to the latter type of music, women tend to be nearly non-existent.     I'm wondering if this has to do with "feel" vs "analytical".      Again...this forum proves that men are not immune from judging music by "feel".   But the analytical crowd seems on the surface to be extremely male oriented.   

You really do have the most beautiful way of writing but I'm afraid I'm not following it all - English not being my mother language. So the male orientation is not about aggression, but more about complexity/analyzing the music; more than melody/feel?

Still I want to endorse that whatever DT song you would share with a female should depend on her person, not gender.

[jammindude]

I think you nailed it.  Calvin probably put it more succinctly (quicker and easier) than I did.

Thank you BTW...   

[jammindude]

Still I want to endorse that whatever DT song you would share with a female should depend on her person, not gender.

I'm completely on board with you here.  I totally agree.   But because (like Calvin pointed out) the analytical crowd of females may be more like 90/10, the *tendency* would be to start off showing them the more feel/melodic material.   

But if you KNOW the person, and you know them to be into more analytical stuff, then you should show them what they will like regardless of gender. 

I think we were only making the point that the analytical crowd seems to be male heavy....although that's not because of any sort of exclusion.    In fact I think most guys in the analytical crowd would LOVE it if there were more women in their ranks. 

[Enalya]

I see, I don't think it's 90/10 in The Netherlands, maybe 70/30, but I will believe you about your countries. It seems so! Some people explain it by saying men also have more interest in maths, but I know more woman studying maths than men. Maybe I surround myself with weirdos lol.

Funny piece of interview with JLB about females in the crowd:
https://youtu.be/KIMLi1CJu0Y?t=6m8s

[jammindude]

I see, I don't think it's 90/10 in The Netherlands, maybe 70/30, but I will believe you about your countries. It seems so! Some people explain it by saying men also have more interest in maths, but I know more woman studying maths than men. Maybe I surround myself with weirdos lol.

Funny piece of interview with JLB about females in the crowd:
https://youtu.be/KIMLi1CJu0Y?t=6m8s

 
I've always found that to be really fascinating as well.  Because there is a sound basis that women are inherently more mathematical than men.   Maybe it's because music fulfills a completely different role in their lives?     It would be like, even if you loved your work, you wouldn't necessarily want to spend your play time with something that felt too much like your work.   For some, music is a "release", for others it can be a hobby that is more akin to puzzle boxes. 

[Train of Naught]

(at least in The Netherlands)

Sometimes I feel there are absolutely no DT fans in The Netherlands, this gave me a slight bit of hope.

[Enalya]

(at least in The Netherlands)

Sometimes I feel there are absolutely no DT fans in The Netherlands, this gave me a slight bit of hope.

Haha aw no, for sure. First show I went with my dad and the second with 3 friends and 1 Brazilian friend Both shows were sold out. So no worries!

[ToT-147]

Still I want to endorse that whatever DT song you would share with a female should depend on her person, not gender.

It's not that simple..

It does depend on her person, yes.. But that's just one element.. Others can be: the gender (whatever the percentage or reasons), the country she's from, the musical culture around her, the musical taste of her family/friends, the acces she or you can have to a specific band (DT in this case), the popular this band is, the way you share the song with this woman, your type of relation with her, etc..

[Enalya]

..Others can be: the gender (whatever the percentage or reasons)

Nah, my point won't come across then. But what do I know, from a female point of view.