Author Topic: Canadian Federal Election  (Read 1797 times)

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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2015, 07:14:50 PM »
Mrs Jingle and I will tomorrow or Monday. I read that 850,000 have voted already!!
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Offline Genowyn

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2015, 08:17:53 PM »
I'll try to vote tomorrow, hopefully the documents I have access to will get me past the voter suppression >.>

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Offline TL

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2015, 07:18:40 PM »
Mrs Jingle and I will tomorrow or Monday. I read that 850,000 have voted already!!
Voter turnout does seem to be significantly higher than in 2011 so far, which is very encouraging.
When I voted in 2011, I was the only voter at the polling place while I was there. First day of advance polls.

This time, I went on the first day of advance polls, around the same time of day, and there was a substantial turnout. The line for my poll was actually not that long, but there were two other polls at that location, and both had lines out the door.

Regardless of result, I really hope there's a high voter turnout this time around.

Offline Genowyn

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2015, 10:51:29 PM »
I was able to vote! :lol

The advance polling station was totally empty but I went there pretty much right after it opened.

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Offline TL

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2015, 01:38:37 PM »
So apparently more than 2.4 million people have already voted, which is up significantly from advance voting in 2011.

Edit: Apparently those numbers didn't include Monday. In total, more than 3.6 million people have voted so far. Compared to early voting in 2011, that's a 71% jump.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 02:52:01 PM by TL »

Offline portnoy311

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2015, 04:10:24 PM »
Nice, early voting is always a good thing. I wish more people did it, but there is still something to the experience of voting on actual election day, going to the precinct, etc. But early voters are usually the most excited and knowledgeable overall on the issues, I'd wager.

Offline TL

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2015, 08:16:08 PM »
So Conservative party volunteers were caught vandalizing NDP and Liberal signs while putting up Conservative ones.
Now, on its own, that's just some random assholes who did a stupid thing.

When Stephen Harper personally meets with them after the fact on the other hand...
http://thinkpol.ca/2015/10/16/harper-privately-met-brampton-sign-vandals-photos-show/

Offline portnoy311

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #42 on: October 17, 2015, 08:59:35 PM »
And it being, what, the 4th straight election nonsense like this has been tied directly to those up for election?

Offline Genowyn

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2015, 08:40:46 PM »
ugh

At least the desperation is heartening.

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Offline TL

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2015, 03:54:06 PM »
It won't be long now. In just about the two longest feeling hours ever, we should start seeing some results here in the Atlantic region.
Wish us luck, and have a good election night everyone!

Offline Genowyn

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #45 on: October 19, 2015, 08:41:07 PM »
Ohhh boy lookin good!

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Offline TL

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #46 on: October 19, 2015, 08:53:15 PM »
The Liberals have swept Atlantic Canada, getting every single seat here!

Now, it's a little bittersweet, because we did lose some really great NDP MPs.
That said, I'm absolutely thrilled that we didn't give the Conservatives a single seat out here.

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2015, 10:47:39 PM »
Majority huh?  I think that's the last thing we needed.  Seeing what the Liberals are doing in Ontario, I'm really worried about the next 4 years.
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Offline Genowyn

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2015, 11:07:02 PM »
I think a minority would have been better but a turnip would have made a better pm than Harper. Even his concession speech was slimy.

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Offline kaos2900

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #49 on: October 20, 2015, 06:50:06 AM »
Can someone explain the ideals of Canadian liberals and conservatives? Are they similar to those in the states?

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #50 on: October 20, 2015, 07:19:03 AM »
Somewhat similar, but not nearly as far to the right or left as Republicans and Democrats are.  The principles regarding taxation are fairly similar, but your hot button issues like immigration reform, healthcare (it's an issue here - but not a gargantuan one like the US), gun control, same sex rights... those just aren't relevant political issues.  Foreign policy, economic stimulation, infrastructure investment, electoral reform, environment, balanced budgets (or lack thereof), family support ... those are some of our leading issues.
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Offline TL

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #51 on: October 20, 2015, 08:00:17 AM »
By Canadian standards, the Liberals are left of center. They actually ran further to the left on a lot of issues during this campaign.
Some things they campaigned on this time around include; Running a few modest deficits to spend money investing on infrastructure. Creating a new, higher tax bracket for the 1%, and cutting taxes for several of the lower brackets. They were the party that legalized gay marriage, but that was back in 2005. We'll probably see some sort of electoral reform. We'll definitely see significant action on climate change. They're probably going to take a lot of action in improving relations with the Aboriginal community (they and the NDP both made a big point of this).

The former Progressive Conservative party (which was around for most of the country's history but doesn't exist anymore federally) were right of center.
There also used to be Reform, which was much further to the right. Around the year 2000 they changed their name to Conservative Reform Alliance Party, then to Canadian Alliance. At one point, they were lead by Stephen Harper.
The two merged in late 2003, and became the current Conservative Party, which is noticeably further right than the former Progressive Conservatives (though would probably relatively close to the Democrats in the US on the political spectrum. Maybe slightly to the right of them).
Just sticking to the campaign, they mostly focused on tax cuts and "protecting the economy" (even though they've been in charge of it for nearly a decade and haven't done a particularly good job with it). In the last few weeks, they tried to make an issue of women wearing a Niqab (an Islamic face covering veil) during citizenship ceremonies, which had come up literally twice in the past decade. They campaigned on trying to ban it to protect "traditional Canadian values", and went as far as proposing opening a "Barbaric Cultural Practices Hotline". Combined with a few mentions from Harper about "old stock Canadians" and a bill, C-24, that would allow one cabinet minister to single handedly revoke people's citizenship for reasons at their discretion, and these tactics really started to raise some eyebrows.

There's also the New Democratic Party, or NDP, who are to the left of the Liberals.
They were actually quite popular during the campaign, leading at several points, but in the end, because of our current electoral system, a lot of people who didn't want the Conservatives to win lined up behind one of the left wing parties, and that ended up being the Liberals. To be fair, as much as I was rooting for the NDP, the Liberals ran a better campaign.

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #52 on: October 20, 2015, 08:48:58 PM »
I'm seeing more about why the Conservative Party was so bad, but not really why the NDP or Liberals were so good?

Exactly... this election was about which was the least worst option.  Living in a province that has a majority provincial Liberal government, this was about the worst result I could've hoped for (a majority NDP would've been the worst, but that was never a reality).  It won't be long before campaign promises are cancelled.  Liberals are notorious for that - worse than any other party.

My belief is that Canadians wanted (needed?) change just for the sake of change, and the Liberals/Trudeau were in the right place at the right time.

I hope they don't fuck things up any worse than the Conservatives have.  Knowing what I know about the Liberal mandates and internal policies, I fear we traded one bad ruling party for another that could be even worse.  Time will tell.
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Offline TL

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #53 on: October 20, 2015, 10:06:06 PM »
I'm seeing more about why the Conservative Party was so bad, but not really why the NDP or Liberals were so good?

Exactly... this election was about which was the least worst option.  Living in a province that has a majority provincial Liberal government, this was about the worst result I could've hoped for (a majority NDP would've been the worst, but that was never a reality).  It won't be long before campaign promises are cancelled.  Liberals are notorious for that - worse than any other party.

My belief is that Canadians wanted (needed?) change just for the sake of change, and the Liberals/Trudeau were in the right place at the right time.

I hope they don't fuck things up any worse than the Conservatives have.  Knowing what I know about the Liberal mandates and internal policies, I fear we traded one bad ruling party for another that could be even worse.  Time will tell.
Wow, that's a lot of cynicism, and definitely not representative of the general atmosphere this election.

Anecdotally, I can tell you that here in Atlantic Canada, people who wanted change didn't want it "just for change sake". A lot of people here really, really don't like what Harper and his government did while in power. There's a very long list of very real grievances people have with him. There's a reason the Conservatives didn't win a single seat in this region, and why in many parts of Atlantic Canada (including places where the Progressive Conservatives were quite popular), their share of the popular vote dropped off the face of the earth.
I don't mean to jump at you here. It's just a bit offputting to have a very legitimate rejection of a sitting government written off as "just wanting change for change sake".

The Liberals and NDP are also both quite popular out this way. There are a lot of people out this way who felt they had multiple good options to choose from.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 10:49:21 PM by TL »

Offline TL

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #54 on: October 20, 2015, 10:26:13 PM »
I'm seeing more about why the Conservative Party was so bad, but not really why the NDP or Liberals were so good?
It's largely because the new Conservatives under Stephen Harper were an anomaly in Canada. Nothing like them had ever really existed in this country before, and they only ever came to power by abusing an electoral system that isn't designed for this many parties.
Honestly, undoing the damage he has done to a lot of important Canadian institutions is already a pretty good feather in the cap of any of the other parties.

Personally, I was supporting the NDP. They have a fantastic track record on social issues. They have a focus on dealing with poverty and income inequality. They have a lot in their platform about improving the government's relationship with First Nations. They want to expand the health care system to cover prescription drug costs. I liked their position on womens health issues, job creation strategy, immigration, expanding veterans affairs, setting up a national childcare program, reducing the costs of post-secondary education, transitioning our foreign affairs efforts away from military intervention and back toward peace keeping and humanitarian aid, etc.
They also had a number of phenomenal Members of Parliament in this region, who have been really active in the community and have been very supportive of some important local causes and programs.

My main choice in this election wasn't voting against anything, it was voting for the NDP. Getting rid of Harper was a really nice secondary motivation.

While I didn't vote Liberal, I also like a lot of things in their platform. Investing in infrastructure and social assistance frameworks. Reducing our involvement in foreign combat missions in favor of humanitarian aid. Bringing in some much needed specific electoral reforms (the NDP are also in favor of electoral reform). Specific changes they intend to make to the tax structure. Increased cooperation with the provinces. Etc.

Both parties also have some good ideas on the environment and renewable energy, as well making our economy less dependent on Alberta oil.

A lot of people strongly support both the NDP and the Liberals. I think it's just more likely for people to be super vocal about rallying against what they don't like.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 10:44:43 PM by TL »

Offline Genowyn

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #55 on: October 20, 2015, 11:44:51 PM »
Have you considered Jingle.boy that rather than change for change's sake that other people have different priorities?

Personal freedom, privacy, giving a shit about natives, and the environment all rank WAY higher than taxes for me. And for pretty much everyone but the wealthy the Conservatives weren't even offering lower taxes.

Despite how much they blither on about it they did not handle the economy very well. As has been repeatedly said to them and ignored by them in their infinite wisdom: IF YOU PUT ALL YOUR EGGS IN ONE BASKET THE EGGS BREAK WHEN THE BASKET DOES

Harper's prioritizing of the oil industry over literally every other issue has done damage to our environment, the way the rest of the world thinks of us, and, yes, even our economy.

Voting out a terrible leader who has completely different values from your own that is trying to lead your country down a path that makes you uncomfortable is not 'change for the sake of change' it's DEMOCRACY

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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #56 on: October 21, 2015, 05:30:47 AM »
I can understand both of your points of view, and they're totally valid.  Conversely, my POV could be just as valid as the two of yours.  Surely there is a good portion of people that voted Liberal just to get the Conservatives out.  The fact that it was a virtual 3-way tie as late as the 25th of September suggests that the general population wanted change first, then decided which party would bring that change.  Liberal support skyrocketed; NDP tanked; Con stayed about the same.  I didn't mean to suggest it was solely "change for the sake of change", but I do believe there is a good portion of the population that voted that way - that their first priority was to evict the current party, then figure out who they wanted to vote in.  That's what I was trying to imply.

How many Liberal and NDP candidates ran on an "anyone but Harper" campaign?  Quite a few if I'm to believe the media.  I know that my local Liberal candidate is a complete idiot.  In the two local debates, she was unintelligible, uninformed, lacked conviction and a horrible communicator.  Winning by the margin she did suggests it was a vote for the party, and in that case, votes can be just as much about getting rid of the existing party as they are FOR any other party.

Yes, Harper screwed the pooch putting so much of his economic bet into oil.  It was a risk that seemed like a good idea at the time, and now we know better.  And yes, his scandals cost him dearly.  My hope had been a transitionary gov't with either a Liberal or Conservative minority, so that each could keep the other in check.  That's been the problem for the last four years hasn't it?  No one to keep the Conservatives in check.  Well, now the shoe is on the other foot, and there is no one to keep the Liberals in check. 

And yes, I do have a lot of cynicism.  Mrs. Jingle is a political strategist, so she (and I by extension) see a lot of the inner workings of governments - municipal and provincial.  I could go on and on about what the Liberals have done here in Ontario over the last 10 years - it's been dreadful, and I fear the same result for the national issues now. 

As I said, time will tell.
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Offline Genowyn

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #57 on: October 21, 2015, 07:13:07 AM »
As I said I do think a liberal minority would have been a better outcome.

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Offline Stadler

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #58 on: October 21, 2015, 07:56:37 AM »
Have you considered Jingle.boy that rather than change for change's sake that other people have different priorities?

Personal freedom, privacy, giving a shit about natives, and the environment all rank WAY higher than taxes for me. And for pretty much everyone but the wealthy the Conservatives weren't even offering lower taxes.

Despite how much they blither on about it they did not handle the economy very well. As has been repeatedly said to them and ignored by them in their infinite wisdom: IF YOU PUT ALL YOUR EGGS IN ONE BASKET THE EGGS BREAK WHEN THE BASKET DOES

Harper's prioritizing of the oil industry over literally every other issue has done damage to our environment, the way the rest of the world thinks of us, and, yes, even our economy.

Voting out a terrible leader who has completely different values from your own that is trying to lead your country down a path that makes you uncomfortable is not 'change for the sake of change' it's DEMOCRACY

Well, as an outsider, who watches this with detached interest, that was the real crime:  all eggs in one basket.  Anyone with any economic experience could tell you it was not a prudent idea, but having said that, if the idea panned out, the election would have likely been rather different.   

The last point is just your opinion, and I'm sure (since Harper did get elected at some point) had his economic policies panned out, the notion of "terrible leader" would have been much more debatable.   As for the "leader with values different than your own, etc.", well, that's really democracy, isn't it?   Obama and I share very little in common (at least with respect to the "how" if not the "what") but I don't get to opt out because more people fell for his smoke and mirrors show than not.  My opinions are my opinion (as are yours) and between elections they don't really carry a lot of weight.

Offline Genowyn

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #59 on: October 21, 2015, 09:17:54 AM »
The terrible leader is certainly a matter of opinion and rhetorical hyperbole on my part, but I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not on the rest.

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Offline Stadler

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #60 on: October 21, 2015, 09:30:27 AM »
For the most part, agreeing in principle, withholding comment on the specifics of the candidates, because I only know what I get from American news (and that ain't much).

Offline Genowyn

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #61 on: October 21, 2015, 12:00:29 PM »
Yeah, I wasn't asking if you agreed on the specifics of anything.

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Offline portnoy311

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Re: Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #62 on: October 21, 2015, 02:32:26 PM »
I make an effort to not offer any strong opinions on a foreign government.  Unless there are extremes (like Genocide), then an outsider's picture is severely limited, and therefore just comes off annoying to those actually experiencing it.

Actually, I welcome the outsider's perspective when discussing the US politics, because too often we (our collective country) act like we're in a bubble, that nothing we do has an effect on others (we're the most influential country in the world), and that outsiders can't give us a lick of perspective or knowledge. All fallacies. It is not annoying when Canadians, for example, post in threads about us.