Author Topic: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?  (Read 3207 times)

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Offline SnakeEyes

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DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« on: August 23, 2015, 09:05:02 AM »
Don't worry, I'm not trying to start an argument about which band is better.  I love all three bands.  What I mean by "won" is ....of the three bands mentioned, which one is giving us the most quality music PRESENTLY? 

My opinion is this:  Three or four years ago, Queensryche would have been at the bottom, Fates Warning in the middle and DT on top.  However, Queensryche has totally been revitalized with their new singer and back to making actual good music.  Fates Warning's last album was surprisingly awesome and consistent.  I would say that out of the three, I'd put it like this: 

1)  Fates Warning (their last album was the best out of the three bands' most recent in my opinion)
2)  Ryche
3)  Still love DT, but out of the three bands, they're definitely starting to sound the most tired and bland.  Not an insult to the band, just my opinion. 

Thoughts?
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2015, 09:19:41 AM »
Even though I like some of their early material, I haven't heard anything new by Fates Warning in a long time.

There is no way I can say the first post-Tate record Queensyrche did is better than ADTOE or even DT12.   

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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2015, 09:32:23 AM »
-If you compare the same 3 bands (with the same members that played during that tour), I would go DT, Fates, and QR. We know how the QR fiasco ended. Fates was touring sporadically and there were even some rumours out that maybe the band was about to call it quits since they didn't have new material and did not tour much on their last two albums at that time (Disconnected and FWX). DT kept a very grinding touring schedule and released two or three more studio albums after that tour.

-If you compare the 3 bands (including band member changes), I would go QR, FW, and DT. QR seems to have come back and have been touring non-stop ever since Tate left. I think the first real test is going to be their upcoming studio album. Their last one (1st with LaTorre) felt more like an EP and introduction to LT. Fates released a very consistent album and have been also touring constantly (and more) compared to their previous release. Bobby Jarzombek's addition to the band seems to have inspired the band a bit more and find their sound. Darkenss brought them to a heavier sound but trying to keep that Parallels/Inside Out formula.
Dream Theater on the other hand, while having released good records, their touring seems to have winded down a bit. Especially in the US (where QR and FW keep touring), where they didn't even do a 2nd US leg of DT12.


Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2015, 12:37:22 PM »
DT by far. 

I like Fates Warning and I think all of their albums including the most recent is incredibly solid and excellent but it doesn't come close to DT.

I couldn't even name one song by Queensryche except Silent Lucidity and thats only because some woman was bugging me at karaoke to sing that with her and wouldn't accept that I didn't know it, I guess because I just sang Mr. Brownstone or something so she thought I must know all the "hits" by every 80s band.  So yeah, Queensryche doesn't even register with me. 

Offline mrrct

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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2015, 01:01:57 PM »
Dream Theater, by the mere fact that if anyone mentions "progressive metal" they are the first band that comes to mind, other than Tool, who I really consider alternative.

Queensryche would have been first up until about 1997, but starting with Hear in the Now Frontier and DeGarmo leaving they have been falling into obscurity with one lackluster album after another, hitting rock bottom with the Cabaret fiasco.  Just now they might be digging themselves out of the hole with LaTorre replacing The Vest, as their first album received good reviews (I admit to not having heard it) and the first couple of snippets from the next one getting positive feedback.

Fates Warning, unlike Queensryche, has always been obscure.  The only song of theirs I know is "Eye to Eye," from seeing the video for it on Headbangers Ball eons ago.  I did at one time own Chasing Time 1981-1991, their best of, because I knew that they were another prog metal band and that I should at least give them a shot.  None of the songs really resonated for me, so I ended up trading the disc.

Offline jammindude

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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2015, 01:11:31 PM »
At the moment, I have to give the edge to DT...but that's without having heard the new QR yet. 

FW would currently be at the bottom.   Their last two albums have been very hit and miss for me.   Really good, but completely overshadowed by the masterpieces that are APSOG and DC.     But I will give them props that DIADL was definitely better than X, which I really didn't care for that much beyond 3 or 4 songs.
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Offline Train of Naught

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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2015, 01:51:25 PM »
DT easily #1, their last two albums are among my favorites now that I've gotten the time to listen more often to them, FW's new stuff is great aswell, but not as good as DT's. I don't like the last QR album that much compared to these bands, it's OK, but not phenomenal.
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Offline The Dark Master

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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2015, 04:28:02 PM »
Yeah, there is really no real competition here. 

Dream Theater's quality may vary from album to album, but they are relatively consistent, and while not every record may not be to everyone's taste, they generally seem to know how to keep the bulk of their fanbase happy.  Plus they have released albums on a very regular basis for the entirety of their careers, never making their fans wait too long for the next record, and that is part of the reason I feel they can still be considered a current and relevant band within their style of music.  Some may say they have become formulaic, but I say they are just honest with themselves and recognize what they are and do not try to be anything they aren't.  There is something to say for consistency, after all.  They are a progressive metal band who knows that they are a progressive metal band, and they know who their audience is.  While they certainly work within a set creative "box", they are at least one of the finest examples of their genre.  Their name is practically synonymous with the progressive metal genre, and their level of success reflects their commitment to their art.

Queenrcyche are nowhere close to DT's level anymore.  True, their early albums were stellar.  Operation: Mindcrime is one of the most definitive progressive metal records of all time.  Plus they briefly grasped a high level of mainstream success with Empire that even DT couldn't reach.  But after that, and especially after Promised Land, they just lost their way, started chasing trends, and in the process forgot who they are.  They attempted to retain their Empire success by trying to fit their sound to whatever was the flavour of the moment, and they lost a lost of respect and loyalty in the process.  By the time Tate had full control over the band on Operation: Mindcrime II, they were already a nostalgia act, drawing in fans who just wanted in vain to hear another "Silent Lucidity" or "Eyes of a Stranger".  They've gotten better since they booted Tate, but they're still surviving more on their past then their current output.  They need a killer new album to make them relevant to the young prog metal fans of today, and while their new stuff is good, I'm not sure it's good enough to draw that kind of interest from today's metal fans.

As for Fates Warning, they still have a good deal of respect among the underground metal scene, but they never managed to break into the mainstream, not even the relatively minor success Dream Theater received.  It's sad, too, because I think they really deserved it, since they had some excellent records, but for whatever reasons, none of their albums quite good enough to get the attention needed to take them to the next level.  And after twenty years of slugging it out playing clubs or opening for bigger bands, they just kind of faded away as Ray and Jim gave more attention to their side projects.  I'm glad they're still around playing shows and putting out albums, but they're not exactly blowing anyone away with their new material.  And after almost a decade break from the studio, generating interest in a new record from a band that was never that big to begin with is difficult, to say the least.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 04:34:22 PM by The Dark Master »

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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2015, 05:22:30 PM »
I love all three.  IMO, all three are very different and hard to compare.
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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2015, 05:53:05 PM »
1. Dream Theater - Fates may be doing great things and their last album may be better than DT's last album, but being a DT fan is just still so much better than being a Fates fan, because the band are successful enough to offer things like regular tours, concert DVDs, and merch to their fans.

2. Fates Warning - Again, I really like what they're doing, but they don't really have a big presence. Their seem like an occasional treat more than anything.

Queensryche - Still kinda stink. Sure they're a bit better without Tate, but 30 minutes of decent songs that aren't ruined by the Kermit the Frog in any way hardly can match what DT and Fates have done recently.

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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2015, 06:12:23 PM »
 
There is no way I can say the first post-Tate record Queensyrche did is better than ADTOE or even DT12.

Yeah, no question. How anyone could make this assertion is beyond me.

Of all three bands, the freshest album of the last half dozen years belongs to Arch/Matheos' Sympathetic Resonance.

But other than that, it's DT all the way.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2015, 06:50:53 PM »
 
There is no way I can say the first post-Tate record Queensyrche did is better than ADTOE or even DT12.

Yeah, no question. How anyone could make this assertion is beyond me.

 

I'm getting the sense that some think Queensryche looks more energized and revitalized live than DT, but if we can assume for a minute that that is true, that still hasn't produced anything notable in regards to new music in the post-Tate era.  Let's see them give us a really good album of new material, and then they can maybe enter the stratosphere that DT is still in.

Offline chaossystem

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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2015, 08:32:54 PM »
I wasn't going to say anything about this, but now I feel the need to: I've heard a couple of songs from Geoff Tate's new album/band, and I thought it sounded really good. But it also sounds in style exactly like a lot of what he and Queensryche did when they were together. I will probably get both albums when they come out, but right now I can't vote for the "La Torre version" of Queensryche as being BETTER than Geoff Tate's Operation:MindCrime. I pretty much see it as BOTH bands continuing to do what the ORIGINAL Queensryche has ALWAYS done.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 11:37:43 PM by chaossystem »
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Offline SnakeEyes

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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2015, 10:41:21 PM »
In response to the above post about Geoff Tate vs the "real" Queensryche.... I think Tate realized that a lot of Ryche fans hate the direction they were going and he's intentionally going back to that older style to compete with the other version because he knows he lost a lot of fans.  Just my perception, I could be wrong. 

Concerning the original topic, thanks for all the responses.  This could have turned into a something really bad and I appreciate the civil behavior.  We're all passionate music fans. .  :)

I do have to disagree with a lot written, but it's all just opinion.  I think that Fates Warning and Queensryche are HEADED in the right direction and are becoming energized (or RE-energized) and might even have a second phase of their careers (especially Queensryce).  I really hate to say this, but I'm just going to say it bluntly.... I think DT peaked.  I really do.  I don't think their new music is "bad" (well, past two albums), but I don't feel anything special about them, except for a couple of songs here and there. 

I think the other two bands are hungry again, if that makes sense.  They almost seem like they have the attitude they did when they first started out.... you can tell they're hungry to create music.  I honestly don't get the same sense with DT.  I know DT is "hungry" too, but it's like.... different.  I know they're still passionate, but I think it's almost .... kinda formulaic now. 

I almost consider DT to be like Eddie Van Halen.  Eddie created a whole new style, he could have done way more than he did, but not he's just kinda.... boring now.  People are doing what Eddie did way better than Eddie now because he never really moved on.  Of course I'm REALLY over simplifying this, but in a way .... I KINDA feel that way about DT.  I just feel like they're a little boring now. 
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2015, 07:57:18 AM »
Personally?  DT.

As objectively as I can be?  DT.  They are the only band of the three that is still relevant, as far as I can tell.

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Offline bosk1

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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2015, 10:07:10 AM »
Personally?  DT.

As objectively as I can be?  DT.  They are the only band of the three that is still relevant, as far as I can tell.

This.  Queensryche and Fates are both dramatically improved over the course of the last few years, IMO.  But both really fell off before that and have a LOT of ground to make up if they want to be on par with DT. 

Queensryche does have a new energy with Tate out and LaTorre in.  But they failed to capitalize on it.  They released an album that was a drastic improvement over anything since DeGarmo left, but still felt a bit incomplete and unfinished.  And I don't get the comment about them touring "constantly."  They haven't.  Look at their tour page.  There are HUGE gaps.  I mean, they haven't been idle.  They have had some good stretches.  But they did not tour nearly as much as they needed to in support of the new album.  And while Todd has a tremendous gift, like Tate, indications are that he is not taking care of it, and his voice is already starting to show signs of wear.  Given how demanding Queensryche's material (new and old) is on a vocalist, he is going to have problems if he doesn't right the ship.  I am cautiously optimistic, but also have quite a bit of trepidation about where this band is going.  Anything is an improvement over the stretch that is Q2K through D2C.  But given that stretch, improvement isn't exactly difficult either. 

Fates is a band I never got into.  They had a hand full of songs I liked on a good day, but that is about it.  X was the best thing I had ever heard from them.  And the most recent album is a huge step up from that and is the first time I can say I truly enjoyed a Fates Warning album from start to finish.  But did they just manage to luck into something good, or are they on a true upward trend?  I don't know.

DT had a slight but noticeable dip in quality over the last two Portnoy albums.  Since then, they have come back with a vengeance.  And even those who may not care for the last two albums as much have to acknowledge the objective facts that:  In terms of album sales and tour numbers, DT is holding solid and doing better than the other two bands mentioned; DT are still basically plugging along on the same album release tour schedule that they had before.  I feel DT hit an impossibly high peak with SFAM and 6DOIT.  But I also feel that these past two albums are easily the best they have done since then.  DT has "won" by every meaningful measure I can think of.  Even leaving rooms for just differing opinions, I don't find any of the arguments in favor of either of the other two bands to be persuasive at all.
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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2015, 03:07:01 PM »
They are all in a bit of a slump for me.

If you want to go with most recently improved, QR by a mile.

Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2015, 03:30:08 PM »
In 2013, we got a new album by Queensryche (2 if you count Jeoff Tate's album), a new album by Fates Warning and a new album by Dream Theater. I'd say WE won.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2015, 04:41:48 PM »
Nicely done.  I agree.
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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2015, 04:58:12 PM »
I love all three.  IMO, all three are very different and hard to compare.

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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2015, 10:48:03 AM »
My ranking of the 2013 albums:

1. Darkness in a Different Light (Lighthouse is a little weaker than the rest, but the album is very solid and a top 4 FW release in my books)
2. Queensryche (feels a little rushed because of the short running time and the brickwalled mastering, but there aren't really any weak songs on it)
3. Dream Theater (pretty average without a lot of standout tracks, and the production is the worst I've heard on a new release by anyone in the past few years)

However, considering that FW had a 9-year recording hiatus before DIADL, and QR was essentially a Geoff Tate solo project during the same period, it'll be fairer to make comparisons after Condition Human and the next DT and FW albums have come out.

Offline Rickharris1011

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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2015, 01:21:58 PM »
Cool question - because there was a time in the early 90's where these were my 3 favorite bands.  QR being my favorite - OM and Empire are two outstanding albums that were released at the perfect time where proggy metal was fashionable.  It bodes a good question - both of these albums went platinum in the US.  has any other prog metal album gone platinum?  Probably depends on how you definite prog metal...or queensryche even - Empire was a pretty straight-ahead rock/metal album.... If you count Tool...that would be at least 2 or 3 additional records...

Anyway - I would say current momentum is still strongly in DT's favor. 

Personally:
I honestly didn't know Fates Warning was still around as a band.  I hadn't heard anything from then in over 10 years.  I kind of got turned off of QR after Promised Land - Tate's voice had gotten so bad.  I hadn't really thought of them until reading they had a new singer.

Objectively:
 DT12 reached #7 on the billboard,  #1 in 4 other countries, including Japan, where they love their metal and top 10 in at least 10 countries.
Queensryche (also self-titled) reached 23 in US - pretty good considering the calamity that was the 5 years prior
Fates Warning's = Darkness in a Different light reached 162 on US Billboard - sufficiently under the radar.


 

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Re: DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning -- who has "won"?
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2015, 03:32:24 PM »
I'd say Fates and I mean that in a sense that they are the underdog here.  The unlikey choice.  However, they've probably had the least amount of exposure over their career and they still manage to release really good albums consistently.  They definitely haven't gotten the recognition they deserve.
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