12 Step Suite Tracks Ranked

[jjfumbly]

Listening to the whole suite in one sitting is a surreal experience. It's some of the band's heaviest material and I'm curious as to which songs people like the best. BTW I do NOT consider the Mirror to be part of it. At most maybe a prologue or a predecessor or something.

1. The Glass Prison - This is a pretty basic and predictable top choice but it's just a punch in the face of heaviness and riffs. The lyrics are some of Portnoy's best and the instrumentation is top notch. The arpeggio solo at the beginning is fantastic and the last 4 minutes are just non stop energy.

2. The Shattered Fortress - I don't get why people don't really like this song. It combines the best parts of all of the other songs and enhances them with better production. The lyrics at the end are a little lacking but still overall, this song is epic and the ending is an amazing conclusion to the whole suite.

3. The Root of All Evil - This is one of the first Dream Theater songs I ever listened to and it's certainly not a bad one. It can be cheesy at times but the riffs are fun to play and has a nice ending that touches on Octavarium. This is probably the most Rock and Roll song on the suite.

4. This Dying Soul - This song is one of the lesser ones on the suite despite having cool parts like the opening (beginning right where TGP ends) and the solo. The track just lacks the substance that the other ones have. Plus the rap brings it down a few points.

5. Repentance - Just kind of a slow song that doesn't quite match the rest of the suite. It's a nice break from the thrash/groove type metal heard prior to this track but it doesn't offer much than the decent guitar solo and the special appearances from other musicians like Slipknot and Stone Sour's Corey Taylor, Megadeth's David Ellefson and others.

Hopefully the band reunites with MP for a special show and they play this in its entirety...and A Change of Seasons. Anyone else think differently about the ranking of the songs?

 

[Train of Naught]

Hey there, first off welcome to the forums! 
I'm pretty sure the likings of MP returning for a 12SS performance aren't that big, but one can hope.

As for the rankings:

5. Repentance - I like it as a breather during the suite, but as a standalone track it really goes on waaay too long, and it's just kinda there, not adding much musically IMO.

4. This Dying Soul - I pretty much like all of the songs on here except for Repentance, I just believe TDS is somewhat weaker than the following instrumentally.

3. The Shattered Fortress - Love this track, it used to be my favorite 12SS song, it just does the fusing of the previous songs perfectly, with an epic conclusion, followed by the very beginning of the suite.

2. The Root of All Evil - Can't argue with that intro, nuff' said.

1. The Glass Prison - Whenever I hear this name the first thing that pops into my head is "overrated song", but when I listen to the actual song I remind myself how awesome it is from beginning to end, never gets old.



Pretty sure this exact topic has been done about a month ago now that I think of it.

[BlackInk]

1. The Glass Prison
2. This Dying Soul
3. Repentance
4. The Root of All Evil
5. The Shattered Fortress

[BlobVanDam]

Pretty sure this exact topic has been done about a month ago now that I think of it.

Yeah, I recall something very similar.

1. The Glass Prison
2. The Root of All Evil
3. This Dying Soul
4. Repentance
5. The Shattered Medley

[JayOctavarium]

Prison
Root
Shattered / Soul
Repent

[Madman Shepherd]

1. Root of all Evil
2. Repentance (I don't listen to this one that much but front to back I think it is the 2nd best)
3.  Glass Prison
4. This Dying Soul (TGP & TDS would be ranked second but they go on for too long....I would place these at about a tie with the edge going to TGP)
5. Shattered Fortress (The live performance gave me a new appreciation for this but this might be one of the only songs ever where I love the live version and just can't get into the studio version when they are almost identical.  The studio version just seems so stale in comparison.)

It will be interesting to see if I posted in a previous topic ranking them (which I think I did) and see how my opinion differs 

[RoeDent]

1. The Root of All Evil
2. The Shattered Fortress
3. Repentance
4. The Glass Prison
5. This Dying Soul

I'm used to swimming against the tide now. I'm just not as big a fan of balls-to-the-wall as most here.

[erwinrafael]

The Shattered Fortress
The Root of All Evil
This Dying Soul
The Glass Prison
Repentance


I don't get the "hate" for TSF. It was intended to be the synthesis of all the songs, so it is designed to rehash the themes of all the previous songs. So if the criticism is that it is a rehash...well, it was meant to be a rehash, why would you expect it not to be? Even the corresponding last three steps in the AA suite is about looking back. So for me, I appreciated the song as a standalone, without minding if it's using an old riff, and it's actually a strong song. It flows well, it has a good arrangement, it has enough ass-kicking, etc. The only time TSF felt tiring to me was when I listened to the 12SS in one sitting. Which is why I do not listen to the suite as a whole.

[Kotowboy]

1. The Glass Prison
2. The Root Of All Evil
3. This Dying Soul
4. The Shattered Fortress
5. Repentance

[Bolsters]

I don't get the "hate" for TSF. It was intended to be the synthesis of all the songs, so it is designed to rehash the themes of all the previous songs. So if the criticism is that it is a rehash...well, it was meant to be a rehash, why would you expect it not to be? Even the corresponding last three steps in the AA suite is about looking back. So for me, I appreciated the song as a standalone, without minding if it's using an old riff, and it's actually a strong song. It flows well, it has a good arrangement, it has enough ass-kicking, etc. The only time TSF felt tiring to me was when I listened to the 12SS in one sitting. Which is why I do not listen to the suite as a whole.

I don't see why I have to like TSF just because it's "supposed" to be what it is. Whether it was intended or not makes no difference to me, I still really do not like it at all.

I did expect it to contain many throwbacks to a lot of the themes of the suite. I didn't expect it to sound like some amateur bedroom producer cut up the previous four tracks and pasted some of the bits haphazardly together.


The Glass Prison
This Dying Soul
The Root of All Evil
Repentance
The Shattered Fortress

[erwinrafael]

I did expect it to contain many throwbacks to a lot of the themes of the suite. I didn't expect it to sound like some amateur bedroom producer cut up the previous four tracks and pasted some of the bits haphazardly together.

It sounds haphazard and amateurish to you? Well, it flows well for me so I guess we'll just disagree on that as it's a matter of taste. But I bet no amateur can cut and paste songs and come up with a "product" like this.

Also, in terms of arrangement, TSF also does not suffer from overlong soloing or several bars of repetitive riffing that plagued the other 12SS songs, with the exception of TROAE.

[BlobVanDam]

TSF did not need to be a entirely rehash. The fact they wrote it as rehash does not excuse how uninspired it was. All of the previous songs reused one or two ideas from previous songs, then created something new for the rest, which was nice. It was expected there would be some reuse, but not for so much of the song to be verbatim recycled. And it has some of DT's worst transitions ever, it doesn't flow well as a song at all.
The very few original parts in the song are really good, and a few of the ways they've re-appropriated old riffs with new vocals were well done, but for the most part it was a redundant piece of music not as good as the songs it was copying.

[erwinrafael]

Well, I wouldn't call it uninspired because it takes a lot of creative thinking on how to do a mash-up like that that still flows. It's like the SDOIT Overture, but written at the end. 

[Madman Shepherd]

I did expect it to contain many throwbacks to a lot of the themes of the suite. I didn't expect it to sound like some amateur bedroom producer cut up the previous four tracks and pasted some of the bits haphazardly together.

That is way too harsh an opinion BUT you're not wrong.  I mean, obviously it took a lot of skill to do what they did but I guess I expect more from DT.  I don't necessarily agree that its akin to an amateur bedroom producer but haphazard sure does fit the description of the composition of the song. 

For whatever reason, I think it translates sooooo much better live.  It just seems to flow more organically.  In the studio, it totally lacks a lot of feel and really does feel like a haphazard mashup. 

[krands85]

1. The Glass Prison
2. The Root Of All Evil
3. This Dying Soul
4. The Shattered Fortress
5. Repentance

Probably this I think, though TROAE an TDS are very close.

[jakepriest]

1. The Shattered Fortress
2. The Root Of All Evil
3. Repentance
4. The Glass Prison (overplayed it way too much)
5. This Dying Soul (second half drags it down)

[TheCountOfNYC]

1- The Shattered Fortress
2- The Glass Prison
3- The Root of All Evil
4- Repentance
5- This Dying Soul

[425]

1. This Dying Soul
2. Repentance
3. The Shattered Fortress
4. The Glass Prison
5. The Root of All Evil

fight me

[ZirconBlue]

1. The Glass Prison
2. This Dying Soul
3. Repentance
4. The Root of All Evil
5. The Shattered Fortress

This.

[Kotowboy]

And it has some of DT's worst transitions ever, it doesn't flow well as a song at all.

The section that goes from the "repentance" section into "Take All Of me...the desires.." is THE worst transition ever - it literally just ascends a minor 2nd. It sounds SO awkward.

[Outcrier]

1. The Glass Prison
2. The Root of All Evil
3. This Dying Soul
4. Repentance
5. The Shattered Medley

This. Just would trade Root and Dying Soul places.

[BlobVanDam]

And it has some of DT's worst transitions ever, it doesn't flow well as a song at all.

The section that goes from the "repentance" section into "Take All Of me...the desires.." is THE worst transition ever - it literally just ascends a minor 2nd. It sounds SO awkward.

That one in particular is the first to come to mind.

1. The Glass Prison
2. The Root of All Evil
3. This Dying Soul
4. Repentance
5. The Shattered Medley

This. Just would trade Root and Dying Soul places.

I actually almost put TDS in 2nd, then almost put them tied, but I have to be in the mood to fully appreciate the heavy assault of TDS, so I rank TROAE just slightly ahead overall. Both awesome in different ways.

[gmillerdrake]

1. The Glass Prison
2. This Dying Soul
3. The Root of All Evil
4. The Shattered Fortress (Mangini's Live Version in which he took over and now OWNS that song)
5. Repentance

[Zydar]

1. The Root Of All Evil
2. This Dying Soul
3. The Glass Prison
4. The Shattered Fortress
5. Repentance

Not a big fan of any of these songs beside TROAE really (the last two are among my least favourites of all their songs).

[Crow]

1. This Dying Soul
2. Repentance
3. The Shattered Fortress
4. The Glass Prison
5. The Root of All Evil

fight me

i'm glad i didn't win your roulette, you monster

1. The Root of All Evil
2. The Glass Prison
3. Repentance
4. This Dying Soul
5. The Shattered Fortress

[425]

I know, I'm the worst. But does it really surprise anyone at this point that I think the SDOIT disc 1 track is overrated? And what if I win your roulette?

I won't, but what if?

[Crow]

I know, I'm the worst. But does it really surprise anyone at this point that I think the SDOIT disc 1 track is overrated? And what if I win your roulette?

I won't, but what if?

you're banned from my roulette now officially
and it's not about TGP it's about one of my top 5 DT songs

[425]

Banned? 


TROAE? I like it, but TDS is better. And Repentance and TSF are marginally better. TGP might actually be worse, I'm not really sure. I liked TROAE better last time I listened to it but TGP is the original so there's that too.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Could have sworn there was a thread for this already.

1. The Glass Prison
2. The Root of All Evil
3. This Dying Soul
4. The Shattered Fortress
5. Repentance

[ResultsMayVary]

The Root of All Evil
The Glass Prison
This Dying Soul
The Shattered Fortress
Repentance

[Cable]

5. Repentance

4. This Dying Soul

3. The Shattered Fortress

2. The Root of All Evil

1. The Glass Prison

This is correct.  I might swap TROAE and TGP at times.

Overall moot to me mostly now, as I try to listen to the suite as a whole. TDS and Repentance work well within the suite, but are mostly meh outside of it to me. I prefer TDS's parts that are reprised in other songs than when they are in the actual song. 

[Nearmyth]

1. The Glass Prison - No question, simply the best written most epic song of the suite.

2. This Dying Soul - Also greatly written, sometimes goes on longer than its own good.

3. Repentance - I won't rant about this one, but I don't understand any of the hate for the song's length when the entire thing is 10 minutes of beauty and melancholic perfection that fits greatly into the suite - not only as a "breather" but as necessary contrast that shows another side to the despair felt throughout these songs. Which the length showcases perfectly. Okay that was a bit of a rant oops...

4. The Shattered Fortress - Great finale. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just not my favorite.

5. Root Of All Evil - Again, there's nothing wrong with it. This one just doesn't do anything for me.

[mrrct]

5. Repentance:  Can't stand the spoken word.

4. The Shattered Fortress:  A regurgitation of the themes and melodies of the previous songs.

3. This Dying Soul:  Toss up with number 2 below; both are excellent.

2. The Glass Prison:  Toss up with number 3 above.

1. The Root of All Evil:  I like how this song rocks, mainly.

[Outcrier]

2. Blind Faith

I think this song doesn't belong here 

[JiM-Xtreme]

1) This Dying Soul (by a hair)
2) The Glass Prison
3) The Shattered Fortress
4) The Root of All Evil


5) Repentance