Author Topic: The Savatage Discography - Result and cause...  (Read 36959 times)

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Online Podaar

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #140 on: September 08, 2015, 07:14:48 PM »
I haven't had time to read the whole DM post (thanks in advance - I know it'll be  :tup ) but just wanted to note that this album is the beginning of a 3 album run that I would say is only matched by 2 or 3 other bands in terms of the amount of airplay/influence in my life.  Great, great album.

Me too *raises hand*

When this album came out my musical attention was being drawn away from heavy metal. I wasn't into hair metal, like at all, and barely into Thrash -- only Metallica had captured my imagination there. Iron Maiden still had me enthralled and Dio had started to loose me at Sacred Heart a couple of years earlier.

When I heard "24 Hours Ago" on Z-ROCK (RIP) it totally resuscitated my love for metal. It really grabbed my attention and it only got better when I bought the album and heard "Prelude to Madness/Hall of the Mountain King" and all the rest. Of course, the next three albums only expanded on that feeling.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 07:34:32 PM by Podaar »
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Online TAC

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #141 on: September 08, 2015, 07:27:55 PM »
When this album came out my musical attention was being drawn away from heavy metal. I wasn't into hair metal, like at all, and barely into Thrash -- only Metallica had captured my imagination there. Iron Maiden still had me enthralled and Dio had started to loose me at Sacred Heart a couple of years earlier.

This was me too. Although I liked Dream Evil.

I found two bands during this time period. Alice Cooper and Helloween.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Online Podaar

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #142 on: September 08, 2015, 07:40:53 PM »
This was me too. Although I liked Dream Evil.

Yeah, Dream Evil was pretty good.

I'll admit that my circumstances also colored my view of music. I was 26, a young father and struggling to make enough money to provide the kind of life for my family that I thought they deserved. My disposable (music) income was very limited so when Savatage grabbed me by the "short hairs" with this album it was a big deal. They definitely had my attention.

Also, I got to see them live a couple of times in '88 at very small head-banger venues. It was awesome.
"Religion poisons everything” — Christopher Hitchens

Online TAC

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #143 on: September 08, 2015, 07:46:19 PM »
I was 19, old man! ;D

Coincidentally, I saw Savatage on this tour opening for Dio (and Megadeth) on the first night of the Dream Evil tour!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #144 on: September 08, 2015, 07:54:45 PM »
I obviously wasn't around at that time, but discovered Savatage along with most other classic bands aout 15-16 years ago.  I heard Gutter Ballet and the Maiden like riff instantly hooked me.  Jon's vocals were orgasmic too.

The other thing was Savatage cd's here were very hard to find, which made my interest in them grow.  When I found a few in store, I purchased them as I could afford and it was just an amazing discovery with this band with every era.  Thinking about how much I played all their albums from this one forward, they would have to be a top 5 band for me.  Criss' playing was one of my biggest influences also.

This album was perfect for what I was looking for at the time.  It was metal, with great vocals and leads.  Every song here is really a metal anthem and adds to the album.  Beyond the Doors of the Dark was a fav of mine from this too, and teh melodic Strange Wings was an early indication of my melodic rock interest.  The title track though you can't pass up, it's ridiculous.
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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #145 on: September 08, 2015, 08:01:05 PM »
I have always liked the title track, and I used to play White Witch all the time on my college radio show.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #146 on: September 08, 2015, 08:12:20 PM »
White Witch is killer too.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Online TAC

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #147 on: September 08, 2015, 08:17:34 PM »
I can't believe noone sent it to me in my roulette.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #148 on: September 08, 2015, 08:28:19 PM »
I can't believe noone sent it to me in my roulette.

That could be said for most of their songs.
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #149 on: September 08, 2015, 09:36:22 PM »
fantastic album, love it

How do we go about getting DM to write the official biography for the band?  These write-ups are awesome.

Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #150 on: September 09, 2015, 04:08:04 AM »
Here is where it really started. HotMK always feels like the debut of Savatage for me. Here they lay the foundation for the greatness that was to come.

By itself the record is a really strong and enjoyable metal record and the combination of Prelude to Madness/Hall Of The Mountain King is one of the best things Savatage have done.

Maybe the reason for not putting Strange Wings out as a single was that they just tanked with a more commercial approach and maybe feared that the fans would think they were going down that path again?
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #151 on: September 09, 2015, 04:49:42 AM »
Here is where it really started. HotMK always feels like the debut of Savatage for me. Here they lay the foundation for the greatness that was to come.

I can see where you are coming from but I couldn't say that cause everything they have done up to that point ranged from good to excellent.  I would definitely say, it was a fresh start they they needed that was the start of something really special.
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Offline Cyclopssss

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #152 on: September 09, 2015, 05:10:04 AM »
Awesome album, really loved it at first listen. Have to have some more listens before I can comment on it in more depth, though.
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Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #153 on: September 09, 2015, 05:14:06 AM »
The album is so good, I don't think I've ever read a bad thing about it.  You know and album is good when it's basically a fact with good it is.  :lol
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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #154 on: September 09, 2015, 08:02:59 AM »
Finally got to Fight For The Rock.

Strange album. The Dungeon era fans must've thrown up all over themselves.

Title Track---Pretty standard mid 80's mumbo jumbo rock.
Out In The Sreeets- The song is so schlocky. Especially the lyrics. Seems strange that some fat slob would sing these words. I mean it worked for Meatloaf I guess..

Crying For Love--Horribly cheesey, but a nice guitar solo

Day After Day--WTF? Seriously no excuse for this to be here.
The Edge Of Midnight-The best song on here by a mile. Shows what was to come on the next album.

Hyde- Don't really care for it.
Lady In Disguise- Dark Master, you mentioned Alice Cooper, and this song screams Lace And Whiskey era Alice. But Jon just can't pull it off like Alice did.
She's Only Rock n Roll- This has a great non vocal track. Very 80's rock and very cool.
Wishing Well- Why would they do this when both Blackfoot and Gary Moore did great versions of it in the 5 years preceeding this album. So out of place.
Red Light Paradise- Another cool song foreshadowing the next album.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Online Podaar

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #155 on: September 09, 2015, 08:32:07 AM »
I was 19, old man! ;D

Old, smold. I had a completely dry fart this morning.

Listening to HotMK again this morning :metal

Man "24 Hours Ago" still gets my blood boiling...and that outro (or as DM calls it, extended ride-out) is just killer and makes my right foot reflexively press down on a non-existent pedal.
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Offline Deathless

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #156 on: September 09, 2015, 09:23:30 AM »
GB is such a strong album. It's rare for an album to get better in the second half, but Hounds, The Unholy, Summer's Rain and Thorazine Shuffle are fantastic.

Great writeup as always, DM.

Offline ZirconBlue

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #157 on: September 09, 2015, 11:05:20 AM »
When I heard "24 Hours Ago" on Z-ROCK (RIP) it totally resuscitated my love for metal
Z-ROCK was indirectly responsible for me becoming a Savatage fan.  I was driving through Cincinnati in 1992, tuned to the local Z-ROCK station and heard a really kick-ass song called "Pull Me Under".  When I got home, I immediately went to Cut Corner Records to pick up Images & Words.  While I was there, I grabbed a used copy of another album that had caught my eye:  Gutter Ballet.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #158 on: September 10, 2015, 01:22:35 PM »
Here is where it really started. HotMK always feels like the debut of Savatage for me. Here they lay the foundation for the greatness that was to come.


While there are a lot of metal fans who would disagree, I think Jon Oliva pretty much feels the same way as you do.  He's often said that Savatage wasn't really Savatage until Paul came into the picture.  It's interesting to note, though, that Jon has also often said that Savatage wan't really Savatage after Criss died, and maybe even after Jon stepped down as lead singer.  That would really limit the period where Savatage was fully Savatage to only 3 or 4 albums, with everything after that being "TSO in training."

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #159 on: September 10, 2015, 03:37:50 PM »
Here is where it really started. HotMK always feels like the debut of Savatage for me. Here they lay the foundation for the greatness that was to come.


While there are a lot of metal fans who would disagree, I think Jon Oliva pretty much feels the same way as you do.  He's often said that Savatage wasn't really Savatage until Paul came into the picture. 

Was thinking this as I ran through FFTR, HOTMK, and GB yesterday. Savatage was really directionless until HOTMK. The music really comes across that way.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #160 on: September 10, 2015, 04:16:44 PM »
I guess Paul helped them get a vision and start thinking about the future direction for the band.
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Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #161 on: September 13, 2015, 01:33:49 PM »
Here is where it really started. HotMK always feels like the debut of Savatage for me. Here they lay the foundation for the greatness that was to come.


While there are a lot of metal fans who would disagree, I think Jon Oliva pretty much feels the same way as you do.  He's often said that Savatage wasn't really Savatage until Paul came into the picture. 

Was thinking this as I ran through FFTR, HOTMK, and GB yesterday. Savatage was really directionless until HOTMK. The music really comes across that way.


I think in the early days, they were just a bunch of kids in their 20's that just wanted to play some loud and raucous heavy metal, and they weren't really thinking of anywhere to go beyond that.  Some of the tracks from Fight for the Rock, like "Edge of Midnight" and "Lady in Disguise" foreshadow the direction they would later take with Paul, so I think they at least had those inclinations in them before O'Neill stepped into the picture.  The ultimate failure of Fight for the Rock, however, essentially demonstrated that they really had no idea of how to branch out from the niche they had established for themselves by 1986.  They needed someone like Paul who could give them the confidence to try new things, like incorporating classical music on Hall of the Mountain King, or Broadway influences on Gutter Ballet, to give the band a strong sense of direction and identity.  Jon and Criss grew up in a musical household, so they were exposed to classical music at a young age, and both of them were huge fans of Queen, so those influences were always with them.  It just seemed as if they didn't believe a heavy metal band could get away with grand experiments like Gutter Ballet and Streets until Paul told them it was ok.

Speaking of which, I was curious if I should do the write up for Gutter Ballet tomorrow, or if I should wait another day, since I was a day late with Hall of the Mountain King this week.  I may take two days to write up Gutter Ballet anyways, since I'm going to have a lot to talk about for that record, and I want to cover both the demos and the album proper.

Offline Lowdz

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #162 on: September 13, 2015, 01:46:36 PM »
Looking forward to this write up. Take all the time you need... But not too much  :biggrin:

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #163 on: September 13, 2015, 03:20:26 PM »
Here is where it really started. HotMK always feels like the debut of Savatage for me. Here they lay the foundation for the greatness that was to come.


While there are a lot of metal fans who would disagree, I think Jon Oliva pretty much feels the same way as you do.  He's often said that Savatage wasn't really Savatage until Paul came into the picture. 

Was thinking this as I ran through FFTR, HOTMK, and GB yesterday. Savatage was really directionless until HOTMK. The music really comes across that way.


I think in the early days, they were just a bunch of kids in their 20's that just wanted to play some loud and raucous heavy metal, and they weren't really thinking of anywhere to go beyond that.  Some of the tracks from Fight for the Rock, like "Edge of Midnight" and "Lady in Disguise" foreshadow the direction they would later take with Paul, so I think they at least had those inclinations in them before O'Neill stepped into the picture.  The ultimate failure of Fight for the Rock, however, essentially demonstrated that they really had no idea of how to branch out from the niche they had established for themselves by 1986.  They needed someone like Paul who could give them the confidence to try new things, like incorporating classical music on Hall of the Mountain King, or Broadway influences on Gutter Ballet, to give the band a strong sense of direction and identity.  Jon and Criss grew up in a musical household, so they were exposed to classical music at a young age, and both of them were huge fans of Queen, so those influences were always with them.  It just seemed as if they didn't believe a heavy metal band could get away with grand experiments like Gutter Ballet and Streets until Paul told them it was ok.

What you say is exactly as the music comes across. I agree.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Online TAC

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #164 on: September 13, 2015, 03:21:56 PM »
HOTMK is a pretty good album, I must say. You could feel things really coming together for them.

That solo on Legions is  :hefdaddy.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - It's a Gutter Ballet...
« Reply #165 on: September 15, 2015, 04:13:37 PM »
   Part 6 – It's a Gutter Ballet...



Released   December 1, 1989
Recorded   Record Plant, New York City, February–July 1989
Genre   Heavy metal, progressive metal, power metal
Length   52:25
Label   Atlantic
Producer   Paul O'Neill

All songs written and composed by Criss Oliva, Jon Oliva and Paul O'Neill, except "Silk and Steel" by C. Oliva and Paul Silver.
   
1.   "Of Rage and War"     4:47
2.   "Gutter Ballet"     6:20
3.   "Temptation Revelation" (instrumental)   2:56
4.   "When the Crowds Are Gone"     5:45
5.   "Silk and Steel" (instrumental)   2:56
6.   "She's in Love"     3:51
7.   "Hounds"     6:27
8.   "The Unholy"     4:37
9.   "Mentally Yours"     5:19
10.   "Summer's Rain"     4:33
11.   "Thorazine Shuffle"     4:43

Band members

Jon Oliva – lead vocals, piano, keyboards, bass guitar and drums on "Gutter Ballet"
Criss Oliva – guitars, acoustic guitar
Johnny Lee Middleton – bass guitar
Steve "Doc" Wacholz – drums
Chris Caffery - Guitar, keyboards *

* Note: Chris Caffery doesn't play on the album but he was credited with guitars and keyboards and is pictured in the album's booklet "both to prepare the fans for the line-up they'd see on tour and confirm his permanent member status".

Additional contributions

Robert Kinkel – keyboards
John Dittmar, Stephen Daggett, Jerry Van Deilen, Dan Campbell – background shouts and laughs

Production

Paul O'Neill – producer, arrangements with Savatage
James A. Ball, Joe Henahan – engineers
Teddy Trewalla, Deek Venarchick, Jay DeVito, Dave Parla – assistant engineers
Dan Campbell – studio technician
Jack Skinner – mastering at EuropaDisc, New York
Gary Smith – cover art
Dennis Osborne – photography

The Demos

   By Hall of the Mountain King, Savatage were well on their way to creating their own distinctive brand of heavy metal.  Certainly, the band had a respectable degree of individuality on earlier releases, but once producer/songwriter Paul O'Niell entered the picture, the Oliva brothers and company set foot on a path to explore brave new worlds of music they had not seriously considered before, to see what they might be able to incorporate into their unique sound.  On Hall of the Mountain King, Savatage had begun to dabble in earnest with classical and progressive elements, and in the process had helped to lay the foundation for what would later become symphonic and progressive metal.  But the band's sound, overhauled and reborn on that record, was still very much in a larval stage.  It would be on the follow up album that Savatage would really spread their creative wings.

   Before that, however, there were certain issues that needed to be taken care of first.  On the tour for Hall of the Mountain King, Savatage, bolstered by a modest level of new-found popularity thanks to the power of MTV, where the music videos from the album had found a ready audience, had managed to score an opening slot for Dio and Megadeth.  While on tour, Jon Oliva had fallen into bad habits after spending too much time hanging around Megadeth's Dave Mustaine.  Jon's already debilitating drug and alcohol abuse problems, which had come to the fore during the fallout from Fight for the Rock, were exacerbated by Mustaine's influence.  Jon was compelled by Atlantic to check into rehab (paid for by the label) before the follow up to Hall of the Mountain King was to be produced. Jon's time in rehab would effect Savatage in a number of ways, not only by bringing their troubled lead singer into top shape, but also by providing experience that would serve as fertile ground for future lyrical concepts.

   Once Jon was out of rehab, he and his brother Criss convened to record a series of demos to present to Paul before commencing the album proper.  The demo would feature ten tracks in total, and while only two songs would make it onto the following album in any recognizable form, most of the other tracks would eventually be included on the silver editions of Sirens and The Dungeons are Calling.  These “lost tracks” would provide a treasure trove of ideas that would reappear over the course of subsequent albums.  Indeed, even as late as 2010, Jon Oliva was lifting ideas from the 1989 demos for Jon Oliva's Pain.  The demos contained the following track list:

1- Gates of Hell
2- Before I Hang
3- Target
4- Livin' on the Edge of Time
5- Metalhead
6- Thorazine Shuffle
7- Stranger in the Dark
8- Instrumental
9- Rap
10- Outro

   “Gates of Hell” is an early version of what would later become the song “The Unholy” on the subsequent record, with the only difference between the demo and the final version being a reprise of the first verse and chorus after the guitar solo.  “Before I Hang” is a particularly heavy and wicked song about a man facing execution.  The track would later form the basis of a song cut from the Streets double album, “Beyond Broadway”.  Much of the track's lyrics and vocal melodies would later reappear on the thrid JOP album Global Warning, in a song also titled “Before I Hang”, which is an amalgamation of the original 1989 demo and another song cut from Streets, “Larry Elbows”.  The original demo of “Before I Hang” can be found on the silver edition of The Dungeons are Calling.  “Target” is another song that would be revisited for Streets, re-titled “Sanctuary”, before being dropped from that record as well.  A slow, doomy number about a man on the run, the opening guitar riff would resurface in the song “Symmetry” on the Handful of Rain album, while the verses would be integrated into a track called “Nowhere to Run” on the first JOP record, 'Tage Mahal.  The “Target” demo can be heard on the silver edition of Sirens.

   “Living on the Edge of Time” is a fast paced song from the Avatar days that was re-recorded in 1989, only to not make the final record.  A drastically reworked version of the track would finally appear on JOP's Festival album.  The demo would show up on the silver edition of Sirens.  “Metalhead” is another rapid-fire, balls-to-the-wall metal number that can be found on the silver edition of The Dungeons are Calling, while “Thorazine Shuffle” became the second track from the '89 demo to actually make the as of yet untitled album, albeit with radically different lyrics and some minor edits.  “Stranger in the Dark” is a slow, but rather rocking, power ballad that re-uses some lyrics and melodies from the lost Hall of the Mountain King track “This is Where You Should Be.”  “Stranger in the Dark” also features a particularly awesome ride out section that would later from the basis of the chorus for “Larry Elbows” before, eventually, becoming the ride-out for the Edge of Thorns track “Follow Me.”  The demo of “Stranger in the Dark” can also be found on the silver edition of The Dungeons are Calling.

   The last three tracks on the demos could be considered experiments.  Both the “Outro” and the untitled “Instrumental” are Criss Oliva acoustic tracks, with “Instrumental” being in a somewhat similar vein as the later “Silk and Steel,” while the “Outro” is something a bit more dark and mysterious.  “Rap” is exactly what it sounds like; Jon Oliva rapping.  The track is rather humorous, surely something Jon did just for the fun of it, and possibly to poke some fun at himself through his own lyrics.  Interestingly enough, some of the lyrics from “Rap” would later be referenced on the Streets album, in particular in the song “Tonight He Grins Again”, which Jon has mentioned as having much personal relevance to his own life.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 05:09:00 PM by The Dark Master »

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - It's a Gutter Ballet...
« Reply #166 on: September 15, 2015, 04:14:52 PM »
The Album

   When the band finally convened with Paul in the studio, most of the tracks from the demos would be discarded as Paul and the Olivas would compose a plethora of new material for the upcoming album.  Only “Gates of Hell” and “Thorazine Shuffle” would make the cut.  There was a noticeable shift in the direction of the album once Paul became involved in the songwriting process.  Where as the demos had indicated that the next album would essentially be Hall of the Mountain King II, the songs written with Paul in the studio pushed the band into entirely new territory.  The symphonic element the band had pioneered with “Prelude to Madness” on the previous record returned on numerous tracks, in particular the title cut, “Temptation Revelation”, and “Summer's Rain”. 

   What really differentiated the new album from it's predecessor, however, was the abundance of ballads, many featuring Jon Oliva playing piano.  While the band had done ballads and used piano before, they had done so with a bit of uncertainty.  Surely, the disaster of Fight for the Rock had lain heavily on their minds whilst writing Hall of the Mountain King, and these reservations about not wanting to alienate their fanbase further had likely held the band's increasingly progressive inclination in check on their last album.  Hall of the Mountain King, while certainly progressive, was, first and foremost, a metal, record.  By contrast, Paul and the band brought the progressive and symphonic elements to fore on the follow up.  Their fanbase secure, they now let their musical ambitions roam free.  The result would be a far more drastic departure from their original sound then the previous record.  This new album, which had throughout the recording process gone by various titles, including Temptation Revelation and Hounds of Zaroff, would ultimately be titled Gutter Ballet.  Both the album title and the regal artwork would suggest an all new sense of class and sophistication for Savatage, as well as a grandiose theatricality that would define their music from this moment onward.

   The album kicks off with helicopter sounds effects and a groovy bass riff courtesy of Johnny Lee Middleton before giving way to a chunky riff and Jon Oliva's signature shrieks.  The Mountain King raves like a madman about the dangers of modern warfare on this first song, titled “Of Rage and War”.  The track features a rather slick solo section by Criss and some rather abrupt start-and-stop rhythms, that, unlike the jarring “24 Hours Ago” from the last record, give the song a swinging feel, not too dissimilar from early Megadeth.  Perhaps Dave Mustaine did indeed have a more positive effect on Jon Oliva after all.  As with “24 Hours Ago”, “Of Rage and War” clearly makes a statement that while Savatage is back in force, this album will be anything but a straight-forward metal affair in the style of Sirens.  But the real turn occurs on the next track...

   “Of Rage and War” ends abruptly before the brief silence in broken by a slow, delicate piano melody.  Contrasting drastically with the previous track, this new song slowly increases in pace before some massive power chord kick in over the piano.  The intro builds and builds as the main riff takes over, piano, guitar, bass and drums working in unison before the metal elements sit back for a bit, leaving just the piano and Jon's voice.  No longer the madman from the last track, the Mountain King explores the more sensitive side of his voice, weaving West Side Story lyricism about the rough streets of the city, before the band returns for the soaring chorus.  Between the chorus and the next verse, Criss plays neo-classical arpeggios with his trademark wizardry, giving a taste of what is to come.  After a second verse and a second chorus, the band enters one of the most majestic solo sections of their careers, as Criss Oliva duels with a full orchestra.  Metal and classical melded together as one, it is on this song where we are introduced to the third element that would give Savatage the sound that set them apart from all of other metal bands; Broadway musicals.  In the legend of the making of “Gutter Ballet”, the album had allegedly been finished before Jon and Criss were given tickets for a production of Andrew Loyd Weber's Phantom of the Opera.  Dully inspired, the band returned to Paul to discover that their producer and co-songwriter had written a musical of his own, entitled Gutter Ballet, about the rises and falls of a drug addicted rock star living as an on-again-off-again bum on the mean streets of New York City.  With Paul's story, the Oliva brothers crafted a theatrical epic. 

   Paul's lyrics on this song are particularly poetic, and Jon's delivery is masterful.  “Gutter Ballet” would be the first song from the record selected as a single, and the corresponding video, shot on one of the coldest days on record for NYC, would feature the band with orchestra in tow.  Watching the video for “Gutter Ballet” now, one cannot help but see the shades of what was to come with Trans-Siberian Orchestra less then a decade later.  Jon belts out the song's awesome ending coda before the band and orchestra hit that final epic power chord, and as the music fades away, one cannot help but feel that they have just experienced something very special.  The unique combination of metal, classical and Broadway on this track created a framework for the future, and the storyline of “Gutter Ballet” would be revisited and expanded for the next Savatage record, Streets.  Even that monumental record would not be enough to whet Jon and Paul's ambitions for musical concepts, and many rock operas would follow, both for Savatage and TSO, all of which could trace their origins back to this one, awe-inspiring song.

   Once the magic of “Gutter Ballet” has faded, piano and orchestra return on “Temptation Revelation,” a brief instrumental that serves as a bed for some of the finest guitar solos Criss Oliva would ever put to record.  His emotionally charged shredding is succeeded by orchestral bombast before setting the stage for what would become another of the album's most memorable tracks.  Led by Jon's piano and softly crooning voice, “When the Crowd are Gone” is an 80's metal power ballad of the highest caliber.  While power ballads had easily become something of a cliché by 1989, Savatage pours a level of real emotion and raw musical talent that bands like Poison and Motley Crue were simply unable to tap.  Criss Oliva outdoes himself yet again here, and Jon lays his soul bear in the song's climax after the solo, Paul's lyricism again providing a masterwork of heartbreaking introspection.  “When the Crowd are Gone” would become the second single and video from Gutter Ballet, and it would be primarily these two songs, in conjunction with “Hall of the Mountain King”, that would make the band such a beloved fixture on MTV's Headbanger's Ball.  Savatage would even perform this song live on the shows finale half a decade later, providing a fitting ending to an era. 

   Next we find Criss Oliva in a more mellow form on “Silk and Steel”.  This acoustic track has since become well know to many TSO, played before every concert over the P.A., and is considered by many Savatage fans to be one of the greatest examples of the younger Oliva's six-string mastery.  Almost as if sensing the album was becoming too mellow and sentimental at this point, the band then brings back the rock with “She's in Love”.  The song, which was written as something of a joke to poke fun at the sex fulled lyrics of the hair bands of the day, is no lyrical masterpiece, but it serve it's purpose of restoring Savatage's metal credentials after so much balladry.  “She's in Love” is swift and, thankfully short, though it does at least give us a bonus with some excellent Criss licks before the album returns to more musically and lyrically serious territory.

   A haunting acoustic guitar opens up the next track, simply titled “Hounds”, before exploding into a dredgy riff and Jon's siren wail.  The guitars here a heavy and sinister, with Middleton and Wacholz delivering some notably heavy beats.  The song briefly moves back into more mellow territory before Criss take us back by the balls with some headbanging worthy solos and fat, chunky riffs.  “Hounds” again teases us with another short section of ghostly guitar and insane vocal work before taking us back to the chorus and then picking up speed for an epic ride-out.  Definitely one of the highlights on an album filled thus far with stand out tracks.

   Criss open the next track in style, a fast paced and hard hitting number entitled “The Unholy”.  This song, formerly entitled “Gates of Hell” is one of only two tracks from the demos to make it's way onto the album proper, and thankfully so.  Criss's chugging riffs are supported by Middleton and Wacholz's blasting beats, while Jon gives us one the most metal vocal performances on the album.  The song's lyrics, which sound as if some sort of throwback to the Dungeons era, do not appear in the album booklet.  Apparently, Paul, in a rather heavy handed move, had such a strong dislike for them, he had them removed before the record went to press.  Why exactly is uncertain.  While Jon has stated Paul's dislike for “immoral” lyrics, considering that the same record has “She's in Love”, I find it difficult to believe Paul found “The Unholy” so offensive.  Perhaps he feared a backlash given the “Satanic Panic” that was sweeping the nation in the 80's, or perhaps he simply felt the song was too much of a regression to the band's immature early days.

   The next song begins with more Jon Oliva piano and vocals, although in a surprising twist, Savatage pull the rug out from under the listener for a mean metal assault.  “Mentally Yours”, a hard rocking track about a psychologically disturbed boy named Timmy, might as well be Savatage's official tribute to Alice Cooper, sounding very reminiscent of the great man's many works of a similar flavour.  Indeed, “Mentally Yours” would not have sounded out of place on Alice's Raise Your Fist and Yell from only a couple years prior.  The song is cool enough, although the chorus is rather repetitive.  Perhaps the most notable thing about “Mentally Yours” is that the fast solo section is lifted from the old Avatar/Savatage song “No More Saturday Nights”.

   After the fake-out of the intro to “Mentally Yours”, we get a third, and final, metal ballad, “Summer's Rain”.  Hard hitting and powerful, “Summer's Rain” is a bit heavier then “When the Crowds are Gone,” and the presence of the orchestra on this track, if anything, makes it sound even more grand.  Again, this song is mainly an Oliva affair, with Jon's cries and Criss shredding dominating the song until the orchestra kicks in at the end.  Very much a solid track, although perhaps not as memorable as “When the Crowds are Gone” or “Gutter Ballet.”  For those with the CD version of the album, there is an eleventh track, the dark and gloomy “Thorazine Shuffle.”  The only song from the demos other then “The Unholy” to make the record, “Throazine Shuffle” is a nice, mean metal track.  An abrupt chugging riff is accompanied by some ghostly choir vocals while Jon screams away in top form.  This song is lyrically inspired by Jon's experiences in rehab, and closes out the album and a suitably metal note, leaving the listener to stew in madness like a sanitarium patient.

   With the 80's drawing to a close, Savatage solidified their position with both new fans and old alike thanks to Gutter Ballet.  Despite all the ballads and piano and orchestra, the album was eagerly embraced by most of the band's older, more metal fans thanks to the presence of songs like “Of Rage and War” and “The Unholy”, while the ballads and music videos expanded their presence with the MTV audience.  Savatage was finally in a strong enough position to conduct a headlining tour, joined once again by Chris Caffery, now an official member.  Yet while Gutter Ballet had seen the band grow as artists by leaps and bounds, Jon and Paul were just getting started.  In the long run, Gutter Ballet would prove to be just a taste of what the future held for Savatage...
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 05:09:11 PM by The Dark Master »

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Discography - It's a Gutter Ballet...
« Reply #167 on: September 15, 2015, 04:16:00 PM »
I'll have to read DM's writeup later, but this album is absolutely incredible, perfect.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Discography - It's a Gutter Ballet...
« Reply #168 on: September 15, 2015, 06:09:41 PM »
I'll have to read DM's writeup later, but this album is absolutely incredible, perfect.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: The Savatage Discography - It's a Gutter Ballet...
« Reply #169 on: September 15, 2015, 09:03:02 PM »
I was hooked to this album the moment I heard the bass line of Of Rage And War. I knew then that this album would be something special.

Offline bl5150

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Re: The Savatage Discography - It's a Gutter Ballet...
« Reply #170 on: September 15, 2015, 09:11:53 PM »
I'll have to read DM's writeup later, but this album is absolutely incredible, perfect.

 :tup
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Calvin6s

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Re: The Savatage Discography - It's a Gutter Ballet...
« Reply #171 on: September 15, 2015, 10:35:08 PM »
This album is so friggin' awesome.  The most consistently top notch from beginning to end.  The 2nd half is even better than the 1st half, and the 1st half is amazing.

So I'm going to rate the songs
1. Hounds:  For me, this is Savatage at its best.  When I play it on guitar, I feel 10 foot tall.  The riffs, the solos, the embellishments, the moods, the arrangement ... I'm on one knee now proposing to this song.  It said yes, so the rest of the Savatage library can only be my friend.



2. Thorazine Shuffle: Can't believe this is a bonus track.  You poor, poor non-CD owning lost souls of the late 80s
3. Temptation Revelation: Beauty and shred ... simultaneously.  I'm Jonah Hill with my pants down mumbling "you're perfect".

Don't tell Hounds.

4. Mentally Yours: The rhythm is just stellar.  Both jarring and slick

5. Of Rage and War: Songs 5 to 8 are really all tied for 5th.  Great intro (and middle and end)
6. Summer's Rain: The guitar melody for the chorus takes this from great to epic
7. Gutter Ballet: This is the song (video) that sold me on Savatage.  This was my first true band song.  My musician friends were almost all guitarists.  So one of the guitarist took keyboard duties and another bass. (I talked a friend into starting up bass.  Even found a used one for him.  When he gave up, we'd borrow it for performances.  Bass was the take one for the team for this song instrument).  Didn't have a drummer yet, so I programmed it using the some pretty bad drum sounds and we played to that tape.  The next song we took on was Testament's The Ballad.  Still didn't have the drummer yet, but a friend let me use his older friend's studio to record a real drum machine I programmed via MIDI.  We finally got a drummer when we played Satriani's One Big Rush (it was my turn to play bass for that song and it was kinda fun).  The music teacher for the school was really good at arranging music shows, so we'd play these all at lunch on the quad and at night in the theater.  We'd rotate instruments between songs  :metal   As far as Gutter Ballet, I seemed to be way more enthused about it than the others.  In high school, I was the only true hard core Savatage fan.
8. When the Crowds are Gone:  Also very emotional.  But Summer's Rain usually ranks higher even though this is one of the most classic Savatage songs around.

9. Silk and Steel: I'd probably like it more if not for Temptation Revelation.  That guitar showpiece is just so perfect.
10. The Unholy:  I like it, but compared to the rest it is ... from another era (and so it was)

11. She's in Love:  Even though the instrumental part is pretty good (albeit a bit one dimensional compared to the others on this album), I never liked the lyrics (or melody of the lyrics).  Will always be #11 whether you ask me in 1989 or 2009 or 2029.  But I don't hate it, which demonstrates just how great this album is.

There are no truly low points for this album.  Some may say they got better, but this was the right blend of light prog, metal and light orchestration for me.  Streets might get attention because of the concept, but song by song, this album is the stuff.

Loved it in 1989, but the lack of enthusiasm from my friends had it drift out of rotation until a combination of a new guitarist friend that was enamored with Criss.  Breaking out the songs to play with somebody that actually wanted to play them more than me had me rediscovering them ... just in time for Criss' death.  I remember catching him in the school stairwell with the "did ya hear" (no internet back then ... read it in an L.A. free trade magazine).  I told him and it felt so uncomfortable that it probably came off as a prank.  So I had to follow him to his destination saying "I wouldn't joke around about this type of stuff.  I'm serious" ... "yeah right (with a look of worry on his face)".  When he realized I wasn't about to break into a "gotcha", he looked a bit devastated.  It would have been the equivalent of him telling me John Petrucci or George Lynch had died.  Realizing you will never hear anything new from them just sound surreal.  Nah, that can't be the final answer.  The worst part was he had just reconvinced me how much I loved Criss Oliva and Savatage (the same way I was trying to convince my friends in 1989-90).

I only had Hall, Gutter, Streets and Edge at this point.  That is what convinced us to track down all the earlier stuff (even the dreaded Fight for the Rock).
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 10:51:05 PM by Calvin6s »

Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: The Savatage Discography - It's a Gutter Ballet...
« Reply #172 on: September 16, 2015, 02:59:34 AM »
This is the band firing on all cylinders.  :metal

This album is almost perfect. As soon as the bass line in Of Rage And War kicks in you know, you're in for a treat. And it is my favorite metal song from that record.

Gutter Ballet (the song) is simply a classic, Hounds, Unholy and Mentally Yours are great metal tracks. She's in Love and Thorazine Shuffle are nice but not as good as the rest.

From the two instrumental pieces I like Silk And Steel much better, because of it's stripped down nature (and because till today it is the only Savatage song I can play on guitar) but Temptation Revelation isn't bad either, for me it just lacks a little bit of cohesive direction.

But what got me sold on this record are the two ballads, When The Crowds are gone and Summer's Rain. I wouldn't call them power ballads, because for me that implies mostly cheesy lyrics in line of "I love you" or "I lost you but still love you".

Those two songs are anything but cheesy, they are deeply emotional, melancholic ballads with an edge. They are much more "sincere" (for lack of a better word) than most of the counterparts from other bands from the rock and metal genre. Up to this day Savatage have a lot of rocking and metal songs that are as good or even better than the ones on Gutter Ballett, but, at least for me, they never succeeded in writing a better ballad.
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline Lowdz

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Re: The Savatage Discography - It's a Gutter Ballet...
« Reply #173 on: September 16, 2015, 01:51:53 PM »
My first Savatage album having never heard a note by them. The album cover drew me in, I admit it, but I'm so glad I did. Great heavy tracks, classy ballads which didn't sound cliched. And that guitar playing.

I have to say I didn't love jon's vocals but I do now.

My tattoo has the legend "silk & steel" in honour of this album and criss' performance.

Great write up. Maybe you should get some interviews done and write a biography?

Online TAC

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Re: The Savatage Discography - It's a Gutter Ballet...
« Reply #174 on: September 16, 2015, 02:14:14 PM »
Obviously, I have a new appreciation for Savatage, but I am not ready to use words like perfect and awesome.

The second half is strong, I'll say that. I love the instrumental track of She's In Love, but what horrible lyrics!

And apparently I'm in the minority but Jon is just not strong enough vocally to carry When The Crowds Are Gone. That said, my favorite moment of Jon's singing that I have heard so far is the beginning of Mentally Yours.

Hounds is a cool tune. Not a fan of the Title track. Great guitar on this album.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol