Author Topic: The Savatage Discography - Result and cause...  (Read 37167 times)

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Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #105 on: September 01, 2015, 08:30:05 AM »
I think the big problem was the label expecting Savatage to be a hit at all. They weren't going to be MTV darlings - they didn't have the looks or image for that. They should have been marketed more in the heavier direction with the Thrash bands or maybe Queensryche and the label should have been happy with the "cult" status that would afford. They were never going to be Poison/ Bon Jovi / Def Leppard and to think they were their label must have been snorting some good stuff.
Other than Metallica who had to dilute their sound to do it, I can't think of any bands as heavy as Savatage that had any mainstream success.

Well, it was the 80's...  :P

In all seriousness, though, I think the best Savatage could have hoped for, at least during the era with Jon as the frontman, was something like WASP level success.  A strong cult following with a gold record or two and the occasional minor radio/MTV hit.  Queensryche, while certainly not a hair band, had a look and sound that was close enough to draw in the bigger pop-metal crowds that a Savatage or a WASP had no hope of reaching.  Likewise, Metallica, while they were very much a thrash band (at the time anyways) had enough catchy hooks in their music to reach a wider audience.  Savatage just had an odd combination of elements that made it really difficult for them to fit into the 80's metal scene. They were too heavy and didn't have the right look to appeal to the hair metal crowd, but at the same time, they had too many ballads and keyboards in their music to fit in with the thrashers.   

Ultimately, I feel that was one of the major mistakes with Fight for the Rock.  They were trying to fit their sound to what was popular at the time, rather then making their own, unique brand of music while still retaining a bit of cross-over appeal.  They would manage to attain a fair degree of cult level success with Paul, largely by making music that was still unique, but catchy and appealed to a wider audience.  They stopped trying to fit in with any particular scene and basically made their own.  It worked well for them, although so long as Jon was their frontman, their range of appeal was going to be limited.  They eventually did manage to break into a much higher level of mainstream success briefly with Zak, and more permanently with TSO, which basically proved that the problems they had with mainstream acceptance was not in their song writing.  But that is a topic for a few weeks down the road...

Online TAC

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #106 on: September 01, 2015, 08:39:58 AM »
At this time, Metallica were still pretty underground.

WASP gained their popularity by being a total gimmick band.  Savatage, up to this point were a band stuck in the middle, similar to Armored Saint. They weren't Hair, Thrash, they had nowhere to fit in.

And frankly, Queesryche were so much better and brought a fresher take on the music.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #107 on: September 01, 2015, 08:57:49 AM »
At this time, Metallica were still pretty underground.

WASP gained their popularity by being a total gimmick band.  Savatage, up to this point were a band stuck in the middle, similar to Armored Saint. They weren't Hair, Thrash, they had nowhere to fit in.

And frankly, Queesryche were so much better and brought a fresher take on the music.

Well Master of Puppets did crack the top 40 and was their first album to go gold and platinum, so while they were still underground at the time, they were starting to break big around this time period.  And yeah, with WASP it was the gimmick that helped to sell them.  The Armored Saint comparison is pretty accurate.  I think they fell into the same awkward niche as Savatage.

Concerning Queensryche, I think as far as developing the basis of what later became progressive metal, Queensryche was a bit ahead of the curve compared to Savatage or Fates Warning.  Even on 1984's The Warning, they were showing some progressive nuances, and had gone full blown art-rock on Rage for Order in 1986.  Savatage didn't even start to dabble in progressive influences until Hall of the Mountain King in 1987, and it really wasn't until 1989's Gutter Ballet and 1991's Streets that they went full on progressive metal, at which point, Queensryche had already done Operation: Mindcrime and Empire.  There is a reason why Savatage, despite contributing so much to the early development of progressive metal, aren't seen as iconic to the genre as Queensryche. 

As for Fates Warning, while they are certainly one of the founding fathers of progressive metal as well, they also kind of fell into the same niche status as Savatage back in the 80's.  I think the main reason why their role in the history of progressive metal isn't considered as debatable as much as that of Savatage is because Dream Theater, the band that really made progressive metal into a legitimate sub-genre of it's own right, always cited Fates Warning, and Queensryche, as primary influences.  Savatage was never really an influence on Dream Theater, and with DT being the band that basically set a lot of standards for what progressive metal really was, Savatage was kind of forgotten.  It hasn't been until relatively recently that Savatage's contribution to the development of progressive metal is starting to be properly acknowledged.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 09:04:18 AM by The Dark Master »

Offline Podaar

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #108 on: September 01, 2015, 09:08:30 AM »
Yeah, Fight for the Rock isn’t nearly as horrible as rumored. In fact, it’s a pretty good album that seems appropriate for its time.

It contains some great ‘Tage grade tunes. The title song, "The Edge of Midnight", "Hyde", "She’s Only Rock and Roll", and "Red Light Paradise" all fit nicely with what came before. "Crying for Love" and "Lady in Disguise" wouldn’t feel out of place on HotMK or Gutter Ballet so it nicely foreshadows their future too.

I don’t mind "Wishing Well" either. At least it’s got a fun Savatage spin to it…something that is sorely needed for the other cover song on the album. It’s fun to imagine how "Day After Day" would sound if they’d metaled it up some, à la Disturbed doing a cover song.

I’ve got to go with DM on “Out on the Streets”. On my third listen yesterday, it was the only track I skipped because it really annoyed me to not have the extended outro solo by Criss. If I’d never heard Sirens I wonder if I’d feel the same way about the song. Probably not.

Jon’s performance on this album seems a bit restrained (except for "Hyde") and his performance on "Day After Day" even seems bored or possibly self-conscious. There isn’t near enough of Criss going nuts. His solos are all great but there doesn’t seem to be enough of them for a proper ‘Tage record. Middleton and Wacholz are great though. What a great rhythm section!

I have to agree with Lowdz that the guitar tone isn’t quite right especially the crunch tone. For me it’s just too confined in the midrange with no real bite. I think the lead tone sounds fine though.

Anyway, it’s easy to see why this record didn’t do what the executives wanted and why it alienated the more rabid fans. While it’s at the bottom the first four albums in my list it’s still a good record and I’ll definitely listen to it again.
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Offline Lowdz

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #109 on: September 01, 2015, 09:14:35 AM »
At this time, Metallica were still pretty underground.

WASP gained their popularity by being a total gimmick band.  Savatage, up to this point were a band stuck in the middle, similar to Armored Saint. They weren't Hair, Thrash, they had nowhere to fit in.

And frankly, Queesryche were so much better and brought a fresher take on the music.

Well Master of Puppets did crack the top 40 and was their first album to go gold and platinum, so while they were still underground at the time, they were starting to break big around this time period.  And yeah, with WASP it was the gimmick that helped to sell them.  The Armored Saint comparison is pretty accurate.  I think they fell into the same awkward niche as Savatage.

Concerning Queensryche, I think as far as developing the basis of what later became progressive metal, Queensryche was a bit ahead of the curve compared to Savatage or Fates Warning.  Even on 1984's The Warning, they were showing some progressive nuances, and had gone full blown art-rock on Rage for Order in 1986.  Savatage didn't even start to dabble in progressive influences until Hall of the Mountain King in 1987, and it really wasn't until 1989's Gutter Ballet and 1991's Streets that they went full on progressive metal, at which point, Queensryche had already done Operation: Mindcrime and Empire.  There is a reason why Savatage, despite contributing so much to the early development of progressive metal, aren't seen as iconic to the genre as Queensryche. 

As for Fates Warning, while they are certainly one of the founding fathers of progressive metal as well, they also kind of fell into the same niche status as Savatage back in the 80's.  I think the main reason why their role in the history of progressive metal isn't considered as debatable as much as that of Savatage is because Dream Theater, the band that really made progressive metal into a legitimate sub-genre of it's own right, always cited Fates Warning, and Queensryche, as primary influences.  Savatage was never really an influence on Dream Theater, and with DT being the band that basically set a lot of standards for what progressive metal really was, Savatage was kind of forgotten.  It hasn't been until relatively recently that Savatage's contribution to the development of progressive metal is starting to be properly acknowledged.

I've never thought of Savatage as prog metal at all really, certainly not tin the way the other bands you rightly cite are. They were a heavy metal band to me, pure and (not so) simple. I had them pegged in with the Vicious Rumors/Leatherwolf bracket at the time. We called it Power Metal at the time before all that happy major key stuff came along with its church choruses and galloping drums.

Online TAC

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #110 on: September 01, 2015, 09:41:09 AM »
One of the things that contributed to Master Of Puppets going Gold, is that they had a PRIME spot opening Ozzy's Ultimate Sin tour.

I believe Fates were getting recognized as a progressive metal band in 1987. I played them on my radio show and they had much more to offer than the standard metal band. It was rough, but it was obvious.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #111 on: September 01, 2015, 09:53:46 AM »
I agree that Savatage is a rough fit for progressive metal, and were better described as power metal, at least in their early days.  But I have seen them referred to as progressive metal by Paul and, to a lesser extent, by Jon. 

There is also an article on Savatage.com from January of 1992 (so before Images and Words blew up) that categorizes Savatage and Queensryche as progressive metal: https://www.savatage.com/newsavatage/multimedia/articles/news_5.92.html 

Plus they (along with Crimson Glory) were one of two bands described as "progressive heavy metal" in the soundtrack for Brutal Legend

Plus they are in the progressive metal part of Metal Evolution's chart of sub-genres.
 

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #112 on: September 01, 2015, 05:31:13 PM »
I don't really have an issue with them being called prog metal, but it's borderline.
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Offline bl5150

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #113 on: September 01, 2015, 05:34:15 PM »
I don't really have an issue with them being called prog metal, but it's borderline.

I have more of an issue with some of the others being called metal  :lol
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Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #114 on: September 01, 2015, 05:39:14 PM »
I don't really have an issue with them being called prog metal, but it's borderline.

Oh I agree it's borderline, but a lot of those bands that pioneer a new style before it becomes a scene are borderline for their sub-genre classification.  I think it can be argued that Queensryche isn't truly progressive metal, either.  I believe that they are, but I know people who disagree, and because Queensryche, and Savatage, were so early in the development of progressive metal, whether or not they actually are is up for debate.  Of course, the lines between genres and sub-genres of music are so blurry, it's a tough call.  Unless you're a band that pretty much defined what a particular genre is (like Priest or Maiden for heavy metal or Dream Theater for progressive metal), it's always at least a little debatable.

Incidentialy I do take a bit of an issue with Rush being on that chart, not so much because I doubt the progginess of Rush, but the metalness of Rush!    ;)

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #115 on: September 01, 2015, 05:41:38 PM »
I'd say Ryche are much more prog metal than Tage.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #116 on: September 01, 2015, 05:58:10 PM »
I think the final three albums (which are very nearly TSO albums anyway) certainly fall into the progressive metal catagory.
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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #117 on: September 01, 2015, 06:06:33 PM »
I honestly don't ever remember seeing a Savatage video on MTV in the 80's.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline jammindude

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #118 on: September 01, 2015, 06:26:41 PM »
 I saw hall of the Mountain King on headbangers ball a couple of times in the 80s, but not too much. The one I saw constantly was when the crowds are gone, but I don't think that was until 1990.
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Online TAC

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #119 on: September 01, 2015, 06:28:49 PM »
And HOTMK wasn't until later in 87/early 88 right?
Certainly their formative years there were none, at least as I can remember. Give 'em credit. They certainly persevered and had NO help in doing so.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline jammindude

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #120 on: September 01, 2015, 06:32:27 PM »
 Not to get too far off track, but I'm a little surprised there wasn't a single video for anything off of power of the night. Seems to me like a new band with a seven album deal at the height of the MTV craze should've made a video almost mandatory.

Heck, Raven got almost zero promotion around that same time and even they got one music video out of it.
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Online TAC

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #121 on: September 01, 2015, 06:41:15 PM »
That's not off track at all. It's an important point.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Online jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #122 on: September 01, 2015, 07:09:16 PM »
Thats a good point.  I wonder why?

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #123 on: September 01, 2015, 07:09:44 PM »
Not to get too far off track, but I'm a little surprised there wasn't a single video for anything off of power of the night. Seems to me like a new band with a seven album deal at the height of the MTV craze should've made a video almost mandatory.

Heck, Raven got almost zero promotion around that same time and even they got one music video out of it.

The label probably would have been willing to do a video for "Hard for Love" if the band had re-titled it "Hot for Love", as I mentioned in my POTN overview.  They didn't, so the video never happened.

Offline bl5150

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #124 on: September 01, 2015, 07:30:14 PM »
No video for Skull Session?
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Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #125 on: September 01, 2015, 08:09:37 PM »
Pretty sure that one would be banned.  :lol
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Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #126 on: September 01, 2015, 08:16:40 PM »
Yeah, especially in 85 with all the PMRC bullshit going on  :lol

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #127 on: September 06, 2015, 07:19:16 PM »
So as it turns out, I'm going to be rather busy tomorrow, so the write up for Hall of the Mountain King will be posted on Tuesday.  Sorry to make you wait for such a crucial album, but I promise it will be worth it.

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #128 on: September 06, 2015, 08:48:33 PM »
Had a spin of Mountain King the other day, classic stuff.
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Online jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Can't bite the hand that feeds ya...
« Reply #129 on: September 07, 2015, 01:37:31 AM »
Yes classic heavy metal album!

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #130 on: September 08, 2015, 04:23:15 PM »
   Part 5 – Madness Reigns...



Released   September 28, 1987
Recorded   Record Plant, New York City
Genre   Heavy metal, power metal, progressive metal
Length   40:07
Label   Atlantic
Producer   Paul O'Neill, Savatage

Track listing

Side one   
   
1.   "24 Hours Ago"     Jon Oliva, Criss Oliva, Johnny Lee Middleton, Paul O'Neill   4:56
2.   "Beyond the Doors of the Dark"     J. Oliva   5:07
3.   "Legions"     C. Oliva, J. Oliva   4:57
4.   "Strange Wings"     C. Oliva, J. Oliva, O'Neill   3:45

Side two   
   
5.   "Prelude to Madness" (Instrumental)   Edvard Grieg, C. Oliva, O'Neill   3:13
6.   "Hall of the Mountain King"     C. Oliva, J. Oliva, Middleton, O'Neill   5:35
7.   "The Price You Pay"     C. Oliva, J. Oliva, Steve Wacholz   3:51
8.   "White Witch"     C. Oliva, J. Oliva   3:21
9.   "Last Dawn" (Instrumental)   C. Oliva   1:07
10.   "Devastation"     C. Oliva, J. Oliva   3:37

Band members

Jon Oliva – "The Grit" (lead vocals, piano)
Criss Oliva – "The Crunch" (guitars)
Johnny Lee Middleton – "The Thunder" (bass guitar, backing vocals)
Steve Wacholz – "The Cannons" (drums, percussion)

Additional musicians

Robert Kinkel – keyboards
Ray Gillen – backing vocals on "Strange Wings"
Chris Caffery – guitars (touring band member only)

Production

Paul O'Neill – producer, arrangements with Savatage
James A. Ball – engineer
Joe Henahan – assistant engineer
Jack Skinner – mastering at Sterling Sound, New York

   To say Savatage found themselves in a bad spot after the disaster that was Fight for the Rock would be an understatement.  While the album certainly had it's merits, the critics had been scathing and the fans extremely vocal in their disappointment of the record.  Savatage had made a vain effort to appeal to a wider audience, and it had backfired spectacularly.  Jon Oliva in particular took the negative reaction to the album rather hard, descending into new depths of drug and alcohol abuse.  The band had made a gross miscalculation, and, for the first time in their careers, they found themselves uncertain as to how they should proceed, if they were to continue to exist at all.  With two consecutive under-performing releases, Atlantic had already decided to drop the band.  Savatage came very close to folding in 1986, to become just another footnote in the history of heavy metal.

   What stopped the premature implosion of the band was the intervention of a man named Paul O'Neill.  Paul was fresh off the success of producing Aerosmith's Classics I when he was introduced to Savatage and was immediately blown away by the talent apparent in the band, particularly that of the Oliva brothers.  He would later go on to state that Jon was (and still is) the best singer he had ever worked with, Jon's formidable four octave range matched by an uncanny ability to morph his voice to produce different “characters” like a cartoon voice actor.  Paul was further impressed by Criss' ability to shred so fast and yet still retain a masterful command of melody and emotion.  As it happened, Paul met Savatage right when Jon and Criss had decided to throw in the towel.  The band had been screwed over badly by their management during the Fight for the Rock era, having lost millions of dollars and been driven into debt by thousands more.  When Jon and Criss agreed, with some reluctance, to give Savatage another shot, one crucial corollary was that Paul needed to pay off their debts for them to get them back on their feet with a fresh start.  Paul payed off the debts for the band, but in return, he stipulated that he wanted to do more then merely produce Savatage; he wanted to write with them as well.

   Jon and Criss were initially somewhat taken aback by the notion of writing with an outsider, and it would only be after much time and effort that they would learn to trust Paul's judgment and songwriting prowess.  Throughout the course of writing the album that would eventually become Hall of the Mountain King, the Oliva's would continually balk at Paul's suggestions, such as incorporating classical music into Savatage's unique brand of heavy metal, only to later become convinced of the brilliance of Paul's ideas.  Compared to the albums he would later produce with the band, Paul's influence on Hall of the Mountain King was relatively subtle.  However, the scale of the impact Paul's writing and ideas had on the development of Savatage cannot be understated.  Beyond simply getting the band back on their feet, he would be instrumental in opening up Savatage to musical elements that they had otherwise been unwilling to incorporate into their music. 

   Paul would much later say that what he wanted to do with Savatage was create the world's first progressive metal band.  Savatage's exact status in the history of what later became progressive metal is somewhat debatable.  However, it cannot be denied that Paul did indeed bring an element of progressiveness to the band on Hall of the Mountain King before which they had never possessed.  Above all, though, Paul was a man who dreamed big, and had ambitions to match.  From this moment onward, Savatage's albums would have a scale and scope that would dwarf not only their previous works, but also those of many of their contemporaries.  Even on Hall of the Mountain King, where Paul's vision, and the touch of his influence, was relatively modest, Savatage now brought forth a sound that was bigger then anything they had ever done before, both in the production, as well as in the songwriting.  Before Paul O'Neill, Savatage had been content to be a fairly typical 80's heavy metal band, albeit one with some rather unique quirks.  There would be nothing typical about Savatage once Paul became involved.  He would push the band into new territory from which they had previously shied away, or perhaps not even considered.  The result was a new form of metal that was entirely their own.

   Compared to the albums that would follow, Hall of the Mountain King was still a straight forward, balls to the wall 80's metal record.  The Broadway influenced ballads and rock operas for which the band would later become famous were still in the future.  Even so, from the very start of the opening track, “24 Hours Ago,” it becomes rather obvious that this is not quite the Savatage that made Sirens or Power of the Night.  Every album that band had done up to this point had opened with the record's title track, and all those songs had been reasonably straight forward metal tracks.  “24 Hours Ago,” in addition to not being the title cut of the album, is not exactly the simple and direct type of heavy metal that had opened all of the Savatage records thus far.  The song is composed of odd rhythms and a start-and-stop tempo.  Jon Oliva shrieks and his brother Criss shreds much as before, but overall, this song is something unheard of before for Savatage, something less blunt then their previous works and far more obtuse.  Despite the jarring pace of the song, it is, in it's own way, strangely catchy.  The track also features something that would become a signature of the O'Neill era; an extended, fast paced ride-out, replete with some masterful Criss Oliva licks.  The second video from the album would be made for this song, a rather strange choice for a single, even if the song is altogether rather memorable.

   The next track, “Beyond the Doors of the Dark”, opens with Jon exploring the full range of his voice over a haunting acoustic melody before exploding into a fast, crunching riff and some of Jon's siren's wails.  Compared to “24 Hours Ago,” this song is a bit more like the Savatage we had come to know by 1987, but the songwriting is still somehow different.  In many ways, it feel like Savatage have loosed up, willing to try new things and have some fun with their music.  In other ways, though, the band sounds tighter.  Criss, Middleton and Wacholz play their aggressive riffs in prefect synch with clockwork like precision, while Jon's screams are a bit more carefully placed, each shriek serving a purpose.  This is a very well matured Savatage, one that has taken their talent for playing balls out metal and is now using it to craft expertly individualized songs.  There is a level of care put into these tracks that the band simply didn't have before, and to hear Savatage like this is rapidly intoxicating.

   Middleton gets the pleasure of opening up the next song, “Legions”, with a groovy thumbing bass riff while Criss layers on some particularly atmospheric guitar licks before Jon's shrieks bring the song into a thunderous pace.  The riffs in this song are especially satisfying, the band again working in perfectly aligned precision.  Criss gives one of his most inspiring solos on the album in this song, his shredding driven forward by a building, inexorable pace.  Jon settles in for a bit more lower register work on this one, and proves that he is just as good in his lower octaves as he is belting it out at the top of his lungs.  “Legions” displays a Savatage with an all new sense of subtlety that belies the sinister nature of the track, making it just as effective as the likes of, say, “City Beneath the Surface”.

   The following song is the album's most typically 80's metal sounding track, one that would not sound out of place on a record by Scorpions.  Yet despite being fairly familiar in style given the time period, “Strange Wings” deserves no less respect then the songs that have come before it on the record.  Indeed, if anything, it commands extra special attention then most of the other songs on the album.  From beautiful and bewitching melodies in the verse to hard rocking riffs in chorus, this is one of Hall of the Mountain King's stand out tracks, it's relative lack of overt heaviness making it no less moving.  Surely, the highlight of song is Jon Oliva singing duets with Black Sabbath's Ray Gillian, trading vocals one off each-other, even as the song slowly fades into silence.  If there is one flaw to “Strange Wings”, it is that the lengthy fade out leaves one wanting more, a mere three and a half minutes seeming unfairly short for such an excellent track.  Given the commercially friendly nature of the song, it is amazing the band did not elect to make “Strange Wings” one of the singles or videos for the album.  A sorely missed opportunity perhaps.

   At the album's halfway point, we are treated to something with which fans of Savatage, and later Trans-Siberian Orchestra, would become familiar.  “Prelude to Madness” is a heavy metal reworking of Edvard Greig's famous “Hall of the Mountain King” with a little bit of Gustav Holst's equally famous “Mars” in the beginning.  The band works in tandem with heavy orchestration, courtesy of one Bob Kinkel, who would later play a significant role in both the future of Savatage as well as TSO.  Criss Oliva proves that he is once again lord of the strings on this neoclassical metal masterpiece with such clean technique he could make Yngwie Malmsteen blush.  While providing an excellent showcase for Criss considerable talents, “Prelude to Madness” is ultimately much more then a prelude to the beast of a song that follows, for this three minute instrumental is the very seed of Trans-Siberain Orchestra, sown amongst the fertile soil of Hall of the Mountain King.  While it would not fully bear fruit for almost a decade, the symphonic metal madness the band creates here would later form the basis of their most profitable project.  The song is, aptly enough, a very accurate portent of things to come.

   Once “Prelude to Madness” has completed fade-out, we are welcomed to one of the greatest metal riffs ever written before Criss Oliva shreds his way into the song that would, without question, become the band's signature track.  The album's title cut and undeniable centrepiece, “Hall of the Mountain King” is most likely the reason many of us listen to Savatage.  The thunderous roar of the song's instrumentals is capped by the best vocal performance yet given by Jon Oliva, one that is so defining of the unique combination of poet and madman that he is, it would later provide the basis for his nickname, “The Mountain King”.  This behemoth of a song, with it's immediately recognizable riffs and wondrously crafted vocal hooks takes the listener into a sword and sorcery lyrical world that, with it's deep and foreboding choir vocals, is a commanding invitation for crowd participation.  The track takes a new turn after the second chorus, with some of Jon's most impressive vocal acrobatics of his entire career before Criss takes over the spotlight, treating us to what would become one of the most definitive of his solos.  “Hall of the Mountain King” ultimately climaxes amid awe-inspiring bombast before slipping away silently into the night with a ghostly acoustic coda, leaving one to bask in the presence of genuine metal godhood.  The sheer excellence of this song, combined with an admittedly cheesy yet unapologetically metal video, would finally put Savatage on the map thanks so some heavy rotation on MTV's metal program, Headbangers Ball.  It would become a staple of Savatage live shows ever since, particularly as an encore.  Not enough can be said about how critical this song was to the career of Savatage, so suffice to say that, for a good many metal heads, this is Savatage.

   After being graced by what was surely heavy metal divinity, the next song, “The Price You Pay” sees Savatage taking on a slower, more mid-paced rocker.  Again, it's primarily the Oliva brother's in the spotlight here, with Jon shifting back and forth between gentle whispers and high-pitched screams, and Criss providing his ever sublime riffage and licks.  “The Price You Pay” ultimately serves as a bit of a breather between the mammoth title track and the full-on metal onslaught that follows by way of “White Witch.”  This next track, very much cut from the same cloth as older rapid fire Savatage songs like “Washed Out” from Power of the Night, is a headbanger's dream come true, if perhaps a bit repetitive.  Nevertheless, the band still makes it highly enjoyable.  Doc in particular has a ball on this track, with a relentless double bass drum assault to the ears that is possibly the most aggressive performance he has given yet in the band's discography.

   “Last Dawn” acts as another breather track between more hard hitting compositions.  Short, but very sweet, with some highly proficient Spanish guitar work somewhat reminiscent of then contemporary Metallica, it, much like “Prelude to Madness”, serves as an opener to a much heavier track.  No sooner has “Last Dawn” ended before Wacholz's thumbing bass drums herald a new riffage assault from Criss.  This final track on the album “Devastation”, sees Jon weaving apocalyptic visions with his signature screeches and screams.  The band closes out this monstrous album with all guns blazing, each and every member giving their all before ending their most ambitious album to date.

    There was another song recorded as a demo that did not make it's way onto the final album.  "This is Where You Should Be" is a Jon Oliva ballad that traces it's origins as far back as an old Avatar song called "Walk Upon the Water".  It's a fine song with a very nice solo by Criss, but it would have sounded completely out of place on Hall of the Mountain King, and probably would have been more naturally suited to Fight for the Rock.  The song would later resurface on the limited edition of the the 1995 best-of compilation, From the Gutter to the Stage.

   It need not bear mentioning that Hall of the Mountain King was a rousing success.  Rescuing Savatage from oblivion, Paul helped the band to craft a masterpiece of a record that would resound throughout the ages as one of finest examples of the decade's heavy metal.  It swiftly reassured the fans and critics who had feared the worst after Fight for the Rock that Savatage was back in full force, and this time would take no prisoners.  By way of the video for the monumental title track, Savatage would at long last reach the MTV masses they had long since coveted, and the band would enjoy a special place in the hearts of the Headbanger's Ball faithful well into the 90's.  Even more importantly, though, Hall of the Mountain King would generate enough hype for the band to win them a spot opening for Dio and Megadeth out on tour.  Given the fact that the music on this album was more complex then what Savatage had performed before, the band would expand their numbers with a fifth member, guitarist Chris Caffery from Heaven, another band with whom Paul had worked.  Though only a rhythm guitarist at the time, and an off stage one at that, Caffery would, in time, become a permanent member of Savatage, and earn a place as Criss Oliva's protege, playing a crucial role in the history of Savatage years down the road.

   For the moment, the Savatage fans would revel in the supreme excellence of Hall of the Mountain King.  But this album, while most certainly a heavy metal record, was not a full on return to the days of Sirens and The Dungeons are Calling.  Savatage was a band forever changed.  Paul had opened the doors to whole new worlds of music they had never even considered before.  Their identity as a heavy metal band had seemed limited to a set box of ideas, but after Hall of the Mountain King, the walls of that box would come tumbling down.  While the album's title track is probably the song remembered most from this record, it would be “Prelude to Madness” that would ultimately serve as the strongest indicator of the band's, and also Paul's, intentions for further musical evolution.  Far from being a return to form, Hall of the Mountain King would mark the beginning of the band's glorious exploration of symphonic and progressive landscapes, the first in a series of records that would see Savatage transform themselves from a simple heavy metal band into something far more.  But even given the scope of ambition present on this album, it is unlikely that anyone, not the fans, not the band members themselves, perhaps not even Paul, knew exactly where the future would take them...
« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 05:13:12 PM by The Dark Master »

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #131 on: September 08, 2015, 04:37:01 PM »
Impressive write up again DM.  Easily Savatage's best album up to that point, a metal classic, really really good.
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Offline Lowdz

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #132 on: September 08, 2015, 04:52:18 PM »
A stunning piece of work, both the album and your write up. I've only known this album a relatively short time but it is a classic heavy metal album and exactly what they should have been doing - none of this chasing mtv stuff that nearly killed them.
And how a Strange Wings wasn't a single is a sad indictment of record company incompetence.

Offline Podaar

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #133 on: September 08, 2015, 04:53:32 PM »
   Middleton get the pleasure of opening up the next song, “Legions”, with a groovy thumbing bass riff while Criss layers on some particularly atmospheric guitar licks before Jon's shrieks bring the song into a thunderous pace.  The riffs in this song are especially satisfying, the band again working in perfectly aligned precision.  Criss gives one of his most inspiring solos on the album in this song, his shredding driven forward by a building, inexorable pace.  Jon settles in for a bit more lower register work on this one, and proves that he is just as good in his lower octaves as he is belting it out at the top of his lungs. “Legions” displays a Savatage with an all new sense of subtlety that belies the sinister nature of the track, making it just as effective as the likes of, say, “City Beneath the Surface”.


While listening this week, in anticipation of another epic post by DM, I was once again struck by "Legions". Someone in this thread (or possibly the Savatage thread) mentioned that Criss always plays solos that add to the song and to me, this song is the perfect example of his skill. In fact, I'd hesitate to call it a solo but rather some extensive "lead guitar" that perfectly enhances and even propels the underlying music.

I absolutely love the doubling of Jon's vocals on this song. It adds a unique element that is really effective.

Again, DM, great write-up of this fantastic album. A true metal classic.
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Offline bl5150

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #134 on: September 08, 2015, 05:20:22 PM »
I haven't had time to read the whole DM post (thanks in advance - I know it'll be  :tup ) but just wanted to note that this album is the beginning of a 3 album run that I would say is only matched by 2 or 3 other bands in terms of the amount of airplay/influence in my life.  Great, great album.
"I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle." - DLR

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #135 on: September 08, 2015, 05:27:39 PM »
this album is the beginning of a 3 album run that I would say is only matched by 2 or 3 other bands in terms of the amount of airplay/influence in my life. 
WOW!!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #136 on: September 08, 2015, 05:37:19 PM »
this album is the beginning of a 3 album run that I would say is only matched by 2 or 3 other bands in terms of the amount of airplay/influence in my life. 
WOW!!

We are really dishing up form controversial opinions today just for you Tim.  :lol
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Online TAC

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #137 on: September 08, 2015, 05:42:04 PM »
 :rollin

Yeah I was thinking that as I posted it. It's my second WOW of the day!

Actually my third after Kirk's post in the Book Of Souls thread.  :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #138 on: September 08, 2015, 05:50:25 PM »
this album is the beginning of a 3 album run that I would say is only matched by 2 or 3 other bands in terms of the amount of airplay/influence in my life. 
WOW!!

Funny you should mention that, since for me, this album marks the beginning the greatest 8 album run by any band ever!

If I had to pick just 3, I would probably say Hall of the Mountain King, Gutter Ballet and Streets - or -  Gutter Ballet, Streets and Edge of Thorns.  That period where they had the songwriting triumvirate of Criss, Jon and Paul was just magical.   The last three album run they had, with Dead Winter Dead, The Wake of Magellan and Poets and Madmen was pretty damn epic too.  As much as I love Handful of Rain, I think it is probably the weakest of the O'Neill-era Savatage records, although given how difficult that album must have been to make for Jon and Paul, it's totally understandable.

I'm now going to sit back at watch TAC's head explode.   :lol

Online TAC

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Re: The Savatage Discography - Madness Reigns...
« Reply #139 on: September 08, 2015, 06:21:57 PM »
 :metal :metal

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol