Author Topic: JP getting worse? (Read 9297 times)

ReaPsTA · « **Reply #35 on:** July 24, 2015, 05:17:21 PM »

I loved his tone this tour. So crisp, metallic, and biting. Might have been my favorite JP sound actually. Breaking the Fourth Wall doesn't remotely capture how it sounded actually being there.

Tomislav95 · « **Reply #36 on:** July 24, 2015, 05:18:25 PM »

Quote from: Darkstarshades on July 24, 2015, 05:16:04 PM

Quote from: Tomislav95 on July 24, 2015, 05:13:53 PM
Quote from: Darkstarshades on July 24, 2015, 05:06:14 PM
Kirk is a prick, and an useless one.
At the Pantera tribute show, Petrucci was playing flawlessly and then this dude arrives and fucks up the solo completely by playing total unbearable shit and then leaves like the prick he is.

So, no, JP is awesome.
Wasn't that Dave Mustaine?

Yeah my bad, was typing fast cuzz I wanted to take a dump.
Both suck anyway.

No, Kirk is really really bad. Dave is/was great composer and decent live player.

bosk1 · « **Reply #37 on:** July 24, 2015, 05:27:24 PM »

Yeah, I don't really get the Mustaine rant either.

gabeh1018 · « **Reply #38 on:** July 24, 2015, 05:31:49 PM »

I wouldn't say he's getting worse. That being said, I am not a huge fan of his tone over the past 2 albums especially his lead tone. Also, am I the only one that thinks he has not written a standout, memorable solo since Black Clouds? I do like 8:09 of Breaking all Illusions though. I agree with all the posters who said his live rhythm tone needs to change. It's very muddy and notes just bleed into one another. I also believe it makes his solos sound more sloppy than they really are.

Darkstarshades · « **Reply #39 on:** July 24, 2015, 05:37:53 PM »

Oh c'mon, I've seen Dave live and indeed he's decent.
But none can deny that his solo at Cemetery Gates was horrific.

bosk1 · « **Reply #40 on:** July 24, 2015, 05:51:27 PM »

If you say so.

Darkstarshades · « **Reply #41 on:** July 24, 2015, 05:54:31 PM »

Well I won't argue with tastes and thoughts. I do think he's Decent but not Good. As a composer, well yeah, he proved that he didn't need Metallica to be famous and cool, I'm just not a particular fan of his guitar playing. (Kirk does suck, however, and so does Dave's solo still)

No famous musician is worse than Lars, nuff said.

Cable · « **Reply #42 on:** July 24, 2015, 06:33:19 PM »

Ok, so when did his Budokan solos become spot on? Did you guys listen to As I Am and Endless Sacrifice? Granted, MP was playing quite fast that night- see Stream Of Consciousness, and listen to the trem picked start of the solo. Pretty clear with that how fast MP is going. But AIA and ES are especially sloppy and flubbed during their fastest parts.

And yeah, his live tone is not good at all IMO since Systematic Chaos. Which is a shame, cuz his studio tones remain incredible. The main issue is the amount of delay and chorus he uses. Yes, Lifeson does too. But not to the degree JP does now- even on all of his rhythm tones. Heavy riffs/tones do not work well with chorus IMO.

About the topic, I feel he may have slipped a touch. But it's not like he is mutilating solos. And like Kotwboy said, it's not Hammett.

JayOctavarium · « **Reply #43 on:** July 24, 2015, 10:54:21 PM »

Quote from: Darkstarshades on July 24, 2015, 05:37:53 PM

Oh c'mon, I've seen Dave live and indeed he's decent.
But none can deny that his solo at Cemetery Gates was horrific.

Off Topic but...

Wasn't Dave suffering from some nerve damage shit in his hand?

BlobVanDam · « **Reply #44 on:** July 24, 2015, 11:05:09 PM »

Quote from: ariich on July 24, 2015, 02:44:00 PM

Weren't his fastest solos always pretty sloppy? I remember in the early 2000s (apparently his peak according to the OP) he definitely couldn't do the TGP arpeggios, for example.

That solo was borderline breakneck speed in the studio version, and if you listen to it closely, even that's not 100%. And they played it even faster live, where I think he sometimes had to try sweep picking it instead. I think that's a pretty ambitious solo, as are some of his others.

I wouldn't say JP is getting "worse", but as he gets older I don't expect him to be able to play consistently as fast as he did at half his age, and playing these songs night in and night out is going to take its toll.

Kotowboy · « **Reply #45 on:** July 26, 2015, 01:46:55 AM »

Quote from: Darkstarshades on July 24, 2015, 05:54:31 PM

Well I won't argue with tastes and thoughts. I do think he's Decent but not Good. As a composer, well yeah, he proved that he didn't need Metallica to be famous and cool, I'm just not a particular fan of his guitar playing. (Kirk does suck, however, and so does Dave's solo still)

No famous musician is worse than Lars, nuff said.

Kerry King, Jack White, Meg White, Gene Simmons.

There's plenty of famous musicians who are terrible at their instrument.

TheAtliator · « **Reply #46 on:** July 26, 2015, 01:56:20 AM »

I wish the thread title was more specifically, "Is JP's playing accuracy declining?" - that's all I'm curious about, and it seems like that's what the OP is asking. I feel like half the answers here are just people getting defensive over the word "worse". As if anyone was saying there's anything wrong with JP missing a few more notes per night than when he was younger.... Just, is he, and does age cause that in a guitar player? How?

My curiosity has nothing to do with his compositional skills or ability to emote with his playing; obviously that's not going anywhere.

BlobVanDam · « **Reply #47 on:** July 26, 2015, 02:05:54 AM »

Quote from: Kotowboy on July 26, 2015, 01:46:55 AM

Quote from: Darkstarshades on July 24, 2015, 05:54:31 PM
Well I won't argue with tastes and thoughts. I do think he's Decent but not Good. As a composer, well yeah, he proved that he didn't need Metallica to be famous and cool, I'm just not a particular fan of his guitar playing. (Kirk does suck, however, and so does Dave's solo still)

No famous musician is worse than Lars, nuff said.
Kerry King, Jack White, Meg White, Gene Simmons.

There's plenty of famous musicians who are terrible at their instrument.

Gene Simmons is not terrible at his instrument at all. Can't speak for the rest.

I'm not sure there are any drummers in bands as big as Metallica that are as bad as him. He can't even count basic timing these days.

Even JP on his worst day is better than any other musician mentioned in this thread though, so it's kind of an insult to him to mention them.

wolfking · « **Reply #48 on:** July 26, 2015, 05:26:13 AM »

Quote from: Darkstarshades on July 24, 2015, 05:37:53 PM

Oh c'mon, I've seen Dave live and indeed he's decent.
But none can deny that his solo at Cemetery Gates was horrific.

One of the worst metal guitar live moments ever.

Riitasointi · « **Reply #49 on:** July 26, 2015, 06:07:46 AM »

Quote from: TheAtliator on July 26, 2015, 01:56:20 AM

I wish the thread title was more specifically, "Is JP's playing accuracy declining?" - that's all I'm curious about, and it seems like that's what the OP is asking. I feel like half the answers here are just people getting defensive over the word "worse". As if anyone was saying there's anything wrong with JP missing a few more notes per night than when he was younger.... Just, is he, and does age cause that in a guitar player? How?

My curiosity has nothing to do with his compositional skills or ability to emote with his playing; obviously that's not going anywhere.

Yeah, basically I meant this when I opened this thread, thank you

wolfking · « **Reply #50 on:** July 26, 2015, 06:31:47 AM »

Quote from: TheAtliator on July 26, 2015, 01:56:20 AM

I wish the thread title was more specifically, "Is JP's playing accuracy declining?" - that's all I'm curious about, and it seems like that's what the OP is asking. I feel like half the answers here are just people getting defensive over the word "worse". As if anyone was saying there's anything wrong with JP missing a few more notes per night than when he was younger.... Just, is he, and does age cause that in a guitar player? How?

My curiosity has nothing to do with his compositional skills or ability to emote with his playing; obviously that's not going anywhere.

My answer is still the same. No, I don't think so.

DreamerTV · « **Reply #51 on:** July 26, 2015, 10:34:03 AM »

His current tone has pros and cons: while it helped JP to sound faster (and he actually is compared to the first decade of his career, but not as much as he may seems) it also makes things way more noticeble.
For instance, does anyone remember how the Lie's solo used to sound during the '90s?

RaiseTheKnife · « **Reply #52 on:** July 26, 2015, 01:51:11 PM »

The later material is much more challenging and technical than the earlier stuff. He's always pushing the limits of what he can achieve, and its difficult to replicate that spot on every night. But its not like we're talking about major flubs -- only tiny nuances.

ResultsMayVary · « **Reply #53 on:** July 26, 2015, 02:41:23 PM »

Quote from: bosk1 on July 24, 2015, 05:27:24 PM

Yeah, I don't really get the Mustaine rant either.

That particular solo wasn't the greatest obviously, but he's a good player in general.

ResultsMayVary · « **Reply #54 on:** July 26, 2015, 02:42:22 PM »

Quote from: BlobVanDam on July 24, 2015, 11:05:09 PM

Quote from: ariich on July 24, 2015, 02:44:00 PM
Weren't his fastest solos always pretty sloppy? I remember in the early 2000s (apparently his peak according to the OP) he definitely couldn't do the TGP arpeggios, for example.

That solo was borderline breakneck speed in the studio version, and if you listen to it closely, even that's not 100%. And they played it even faster live, where I think he sometimes had to try sweep picking it instead. I think that's a pretty ambitious solo, as are some of his others.

I wouldn't say JP is getting "worse", but as he gets older I don't expect him to be able to play consistently as fast as he did at half his age, and playing these songs night in and night out is going to take its toll.

How JP is able to play the TGP appreggios on the Gigantour DVD as well as he did is beyond me. They were fucking flying through that song tempo-wise on that DVD.

rumborak · « **Reply #55 on:** July 26, 2015, 05:01:25 PM »

Err, those arpeggios are completely fudged. Like, completely.

ResultsMayVary · « **Reply #56 on:** July 26, 2015, 07:25:47 PM »

Quote from: rumborak on July 26, 2015, 05:01:25 PM

Err, those arpeggios are completely fudged. Like, completely.

Certainly not perfect, but I wouldn't say completely fudged. That's why I said "as well as he did."

BlobVanDam · « **Reply #57 on:** July 26, 2015, 10:51:08 PM »

From what I remember, they're pretty fudged on Gigantour. When you take a section that was that difficult even in the studio, then speed it up and stick it in a live setting, something's gotta give. If they played it now with a click track though, I'm sure he'd do a good job of it.

The Presence of Frenemies · « **Reply #58 on:** July 27, 2015, 12:45:14 AM »

Yeah, not sure why L@B is considered so flawless; as mentioned above, ES, at least, was pretty fudged. I think he's probably gotten very slightly worse at a steady pace over the last 15 years or so, but it's only now at the point that it's really noticeable at all. Hard to know exactly what the cause would be. It does seem that his sweeping especially has gotten a bit dicey. But overall, he's still excellent and well above most players, even technically renowned ones, in his age group.

What's interesting is that JR, who is far older, has never been accused of slipping technically in any way, at least that I've seen. And nobody's said MM is slipping, even at 50 and playing a more physically demanding instrument.

Sycsa · « **Reply #59 on:** July 27, 2015, 02:34:46 AM »

Quote from: rumborak on July 26, 2015, 05:01:25 PM

fudged

Quote from: ResultsMayVary on July 26, 2015, 07:25:47 PM

fudged

Quote from: BlobVanDam on July 26, 2015, 10:51:08 PM

fudged

Quote from: The Presence of Frenemies on July 27, 2015, 12:45:14 AM

fudged

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uovMpapeCJQ

Kotowboy · « **Reply #60 on:** July 27, 2015, 02:35:24 AM »

Thats a lot of fudge you got packed in there !

Sycsa · « **Reply #61 on:** July 27, 2015, 03:08:13 AM »

I'm not a fudge packer!

robin5749 · « **Reply #62 on:** July 27, 2015, 03:59:45 AM »

some of you guys are too critical, I am a john McLaughlin fan I think he tone isn't as good as it used to be and hey he is 72 and still great and get facts right john is 48 and james sounded great at the rambling man fair on saturday

gabeh1018 · « **Reply #63 on:** July 27, 2015, 04:59:43 AM »

this may be a little off topic, but I've been a longtime fan of JP since the early 2000s
I imagine most of you are familiar with JP's Rock Discipline instructional video/DVD
It's been quite sometime since I last watched it, but I recently watched this lesson on youtube

https://youtu.be/xUFvO3WK9YQ
fast forward to 5:34
What stands out in particular is his note choice, phrasing, tone and overall improvisational skill. Reminds me of Brett Garsed
I feel like some of that is lacking nowadays... or maybe it's just me
thoughts?

wolfking · « **Reply #64 on:** July 27, 2015, 06:05:13 AM »

Quote from: gabeh1018 on July 27, 2015, 04:59:43 AM

this may be a little off topic, but I've been a longtime fan of JP since the early 2000s
I imagine most of you are familiar with JP's Rock Discipline instructional video/DVD
It's been quite sometime since I last watched it, but I recently watched this lesson on youtube

https://youtu.be/xUFvO3WK9YQ
fast forward to 5:34
What stands out in particular is his note choice, phrasing, tone and overall improvisational skill. Reminds me of Brett Garsed
I feel like some of that is lacking nowadays... or maybe it's just me
thoughts?

I agree there is a lot less of that variety and fusion type spark in his playing. That part definitely does sound Garsed type. Sounds like The Myth or something like that. Garsed is the fucking man.

Cyclopssss · « **Reply #65 on:** July 27, 2015, 07:20:41 AM »

Figures. The Beard's in the way.

genome · « **Reply #66 on:** July 28, 2015, 05:13:49 PM »

JP definitely needs to go back to Mark amps. Not digging the Triaxis tone at all recently. The 2011/12 tour with the Mark V, it felt like his palm mutes were punching me in the face.

The Majesty guitar would sound enormous live through the V.

Darkstarshades · « **Reply #67 on:** July 28, 2015, 10:36:49 PM »

JP should go back to his multicored guitar, nuff said.

Lynxo · « **Reply #68 on:** July 29, 2015, 04:19:07 AM »

He should go back to the BC Rich guitars and whatever amp he had back then. The Majesty demos had the best production I've ever heard in my entire life.

wolfking · « **Reply #69 on:** July 29, 2015, 06:01:39 AM »

Quote from: Darkstarshades on July 28, 2015, 10:36:49 PM

JP should go back to his multicored guitar, nuff said.

I've always preferred the sound of the JPM's over the Musicman.

News: Track-by-track video for Paralyzed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd5TbGbalPs&feature=youtu.be

Author Topic: JP getting worse? (Read 9297 times)