A Change of Seasons Original Version

[Darkstarshades]

I don't know if this was posted before but I haven't been able to find it, so either it's not or it's buried somewhere.

Whathever.
I've been listening to the original A Change of Seasons version and... I actually like it more than the EP one hahahahaha
It feels so much more alive and joyful, and proggy! The JP solo is amazing! Even Kevin Moore's Keyboards are pretty cool!
It would be awesome if they re-recorded the EP and this version for anniversary or something, that would be awesome!
For those who haven't seen it, here it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X-zZZH7Zp0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rA8S7dgIwk (better quality)
Amazing JLB vocals I'd say...

[bosk1]

I have never really cared for the earlier versions.  It does not sound cohesive and focused.  The official version is much better to me.

And as far as performances go, the LSFNY version slays them all.

[Darkstarshades]

I have never really cared for the earlier versions.  It does not sound cohesive and focused.  The official version is much better to me.

And as far as performances go, the LSFNY version slays them all.

Oh, but of course, it's unpolished and rather experimental.
And I clearly missed the MP line "We can hope..."
As well as the "Gather ye'rosebuds while ye' may" and the rest of the Poet's society samples.

Do I like it more than ACOS STUDIO? Yes
Do I like it more than LSFNY? No

[bosk1]

Oh, but of course, it's unpolished and rather experimental.

And there's nothing wrong with that, obviously.  I just prefer the finished product.

[sneakyblueberry]

Y'know, I was just thinking the other day, the original ACOS demo was the last thing I listened to before I fell asleep the night before my wedding day.  I remember it playing on my iPod just before I nodded off to sleep on a mattress in my mother's living room where me and my groomsmen were staying. 

The next day we woke up and my best man made croissants with bacon and brie in them.  mmmmmmmmmm.

[bosk1]

Well, that settles it.  I am definitely playing that at my next sleepover then.  I just wonder if playing it twice will yield extra bacon.  I will report back once I have the data...

[sneakyblueberry]

Just make sure you have your best (non-Vegetarian) man on the case.

[Cable]

Haven't listened enough to the original to fully go through the differences. I reckon I should being that ACOS is my top 20+ minute song, and could go in the top 5.

I do know that I like the mercy fuck line live- even though I don't like cursing in lyrics as a whole. It fits the mood live and all.
But the EP has 7 string, which will always make it win for me. And good use of it too. Due to JP writing it originally on a 6 I think, he didn't ride the B the whole time for his riffs.

[Setlist Scotty]

I've got mixed feelings on the different versions. There's certain elements from the original that I really enjoy more and things that I prefer in the official studio version. I had a copy of the killer audience bootleg of the 1993 Limelight gig a good year or so before ACoS was released officially, so I was already very familiar with the original and it definitely holds a special place in my heart, not unlike the original version of Burning My Soul, but I digress.

The guitar solo from the original that begins at about 13.5 minutes in is something that I really miss. And I think some of KevMo's keyboards were better than Derek's - never was a huge fan of Derek's overuse of the Hammond sound. I had hoped that after JR had joined, that he would incorporate some of the keyboard elements from the original to create a kind of a hybrid between the two, since JR seemed closer to KevMo than Derek in terms of sound patches used. In any case, I'm glad we have both versions to listen to. And of course the LSFNY version is killer as well.

[Madman Shepherd]

I have never really cared for the earlier versions.  It does not sound cohesive and focused.  The official version is much better to me.

And as far as performances go, the LSFNY version slays them all.

Except all the cute little additions ruin it.  Here we have a beautiful song about a teens last time seeing his mother alive, his gratitude to his teacher for telling him that very day to never take his loved ones for granted, the uncertainty about his future as he now navigates life with people trying to give him their sympathy without really understanding what he is going through, and lets just throw in a little Simpsons melody and a baseball ditty.  Blah. 

[jingle.boy]

I have never really cared for the earlier versions.  It does not sound cohesive and focused.  The official version is much better to me.

And as far as performances go, the LSFNY version slays them all.

Except all the cute little additions ruin it.  Here we have a beautiful song about a teens last time seeing his mother alive, his gratitude to his teacher for telling him that very day to never take his loved ones for granted, the uncertainty about his future as he now navigates life with people trying to give him their sympathy without really understanding what he is going through, and lets just throw in a little Simpsons melody and a baseball ditty.  Blah. 

I've got no problem with those little nuggets, but for me, 2000 was not the best time for James' voice.  And after a 3 hour set already, he struggles through this (imo).  I'll take both 1993 and the EP over LSFNY any day.

[Grizz]

The demo on Antiquities competes with the Limelight in terms of definitive versions of the original. I've pitch corrected the former; I'll have to put it up somewhere.

[BlobVanDam]

I have never really cared for the earlier versions.  It does not sound cohesive and focused.  The official version is much better to me.

I agree. The earlier versions always sounded rough and unpolished to me, a WDADU style mish-mash of pieces, with no real flow, and not as much diversity of sound.
Granted, I think the studio version still suffers from being a mish-mash, which is why I don't consider it a great song, but it's definitely a lot more refined and better, and the LSFNY is musically enjoyable (even if the vocals let it down by the end).

[JayOctavarium]

I love the little snippet (I don't have a timestamp so sue me) that evolved into the arps in the beginning of TGP

[Another_Won]

I'm assuming that the youtube videos are from the Limelight show in March '93, right?

I tried looking for the setlist for that show here but couldn't find it.  Am I missing something?
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=30777.0

[wasteland]

I'm not sure how many people know, but ACOS was performed in its original incarnation once more after the great Limelight gig, in the following European leg.

Fortunately the concert was video-recorded. Unfortunately the quality is far from top notch. Here's a youtube upload: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSHvCHFS0tE  (very funny memory hole at 11:50 circa )

This very performance is also featured in the rare Home Sweet Home 2 bootleg as a standalone bonus track, with much better sound quality (but still nowhere as great as the Limelight one bootleg).

[Setlist Scotty]

I tried looking for the setlist for that show here but couldn't find it.  Am I missing something?
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=30777.0

Since this particular show is available for sale via Ytsejam Records, you can view it here:
https://www.ytsejamrecords.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=29&idcategory=8

And if a setlist isn't on this website, you can always refer to MP's site:
https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/MPTourography/ShowInfo.aspx?showId=128

[Another_Won]

I tried looking for the setlist for that show here but couldn't find it.  Am I missing something?
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=30777.0

Since this particular show is available for sale via Ytsejam Records, you can view it here:
https://www.ytsejamrecords.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=29&idcategory=8

And if a setlist isn't on this website, you can always refer to MP's site:
https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/MPTourography/ShowInfo.aspx?showId=128

Thanks!  I do have a copy of the Limelight show, it's awesome.  Also, it's good to know that info is still up on MP's site.  It seems like it is a bit buried now though. I guess he needed to expand it a bit for the other bands he's a part of.

Hey Bosk, are we missing a page?

[bosk1]

Hey Bosk, are we missing a page?

Quite possibly.  I will try to look into it when I have time.  Cyberdrummer was responsible for maintaining that section, but he has not been around for awhile, and I am pretty buried.  But I will try to take a look at that.

[zecawolf]

I like the official version far better. The guitar intro, alone, would be more than enough for me to prefer it.

[Orbert]

I think some of KevMo's keyboards were better than Derek's - never was a huge fan of Derek's overuse of the Hammond sound. I had hoped that after JR had joined, that he would incorporate some of the keyboard elements from the original to create a kind of a hybrid between the two, since JR seemed closer to KevMo than Derek in terms of sound patches used.

Interesting.  I've never really thought about it before, but I guess I'd always assumed that Jordan's "starting point" upon joining the group would be the official studio versions of songs.  From there, he'd of course add his own flair, but they would be to Derek's performance on the EP, or KevMo's work on everything prior to that.  A hybrid approach would be cool, but that would have meant that the guys went back to the original version and played it for him.  Do we know if such a thing happened?

[SeRoX]

Original version sounds like James unleashed his power and screamed randomly here and there. Musically it's not enjoyable. The feeling and musical atmosphere  in LSFNY is much more great. Even though James had some problems with his voice, his emotional flowing in the song is flawless.

[Setlist Scotty]

A hybrid approach would be cool, but that would have meant that the guys went back to the original version and played it for him.  Do we know if such a thing happened?

I doubt it ever happened, but really the only thing JR would need is to listen to the live Limelight version to get an idea. But it doesn't seem like this is an idea that ever crossed his mind and/or the band nixed the idea.

[gmillerdrake]

I have never really cared for the earlier versions.  It does not sound cohesive and focused.  The official version is much better to me.

And as far as performances go, the LSFNY version slays them all.

[Dublagent66]

The original version is interesting to hear in comparison to the EP version.  I wouldn't call it better.

[?]

There are some cool parts in the original version, but all the changes were for the better IMO, especially the vocal melodies.

[Sycsa]

The guitar solo from the original that begins at about 13.5 minutes in is something that I really miss. And I think some of KevMo's keyboards were better than Derek's - never was a huge fan of Derek's overuse of the Hammond sound.

It's hard for me to believe that there are human beings on this planet who don't appreciate a good Hammond. I think it's one of Derek's strongest assets, especially now, since he's hauling around a big B3 w a Leslie. One of my long time wishes is to hear DT with a proper organ sound (especially while listening to ADTOE, which had lots of organ).

[seasonsinthesky]

Maybe I just have a weird reverence for the song – it's been my undisputed #1 DT song since I got into the band, and that was when SDOIT came out! – but I find the early version sounds extremely well suited to I&W (which makes sense, considering when it was written) and that's actually a bad thing. The final version, even with the parts mostly unchanged from the early drafts, has a very singular identity in the discography, sounding nothing (to me) like I&W, Awake, OR FII.

I'm sure it's due to the maelstrom involved in recording it: new keyboardist, heavy falling out with old keyboardist, JLB's vocal problems, trying to work with Prater again, etc. "Frustrated into perfection," perhaps?

[Setlist Scotty]

The guitar solo from the original that begins at about 13.5 minutes in is something that I really miss. And I think some of KevMo's keyboards were better than Derek's - never was a huge fan of Derek's overuse of the Hammond sound.

It's hard for me to believe that there are human beings on this planet who don't appreciate a good Hammond. I think it's one of Derek's strongest assets, especially now, since he's hauling around a big B3 w a Leslie. One of my long time wishes is to hear DT with a proper organ sound (especially while listening to ADTOE, which had lots of organ).

Don't get me wrong - I don't mind some of it, but it just struck me that Derek relied on that sound too much, which was one of the reasons why I didn't mind seeing Jordan take his spot. But in hindsight, Derek really brought some other really cool things to the table that I miss, such as his lead sound (which is much ballsier than Jordan's) which I think was a better fit for DT.

[KevShmev]

I loved Derek's tones, but I have to admit that when I heard the first LTE album, I was like, "Dang, this Jordan Rudess guy is like Kevin Moore on steroids!" So yeah, even though I enjoyed Derek's playing a ton, I was thrilled with the announcement came out that Rudess was replacing him in the band.  Of course now, some of Rudess' playing over the years hasn't been to my liking (his solos are more miss than hit post-6DOIT), but I still think he was a perfect fit for the band. He has toned down the "tasteless" solos on the last few records, so that is good.

As for ACOS, I will take the studio version we got in 1995.  The LSFNY version is fine, but live versions almost never beat the studio originals, and this is no exception.

[Cable]

I have never really cared for the earlier versions.  It does not sound cohesive and focused.  The official version is much better to me.

And as far as performances go, the LSFNY version slays them all.

+2. Not sure why some feel the performance is off JLB wise? He is spot on from start to finish, and didn't scream to hit the ending notes. The only thing AGAINST the live version is the intro is not reprised at the end, and the aforementioned batter's up. But to me the intro reprise is the bigger infraction. And I really like the slowed down riff at 17min or whatever. It works much better in that slower groove IMO.

So I did listen to the live version off of the NYC 93 show Ytsejam release, and also the same exact track (I think) off of ITC Taste the Memories today during my workout. To me, the official version is so much better. I miss the little unison to start the song, and after JP's solo section, that unison and the replay of the wah riff (which is before the reprise of the intro heavy riff on EP version) are missed. That unison actually was really good, and I rather have them used that instead of the fast wah riff unison before Batters Up and Simpsons. That said, I swore I heard a full version with "Mercy Fuck," and "Please don't go" all intact. But I don't know where. I swear it was not the ITC Fanclub CD of "What did they say?", and of course LFSNY drops Please Don't Go.

But the EP version just has so much more going for it. Outside of the mix sucking (see EP bass fill after heavy riff, and then LFSNY version). JM has a glorious mix on LFSNY, and it enhances it so much more. But of course the EP has the intro and outro, the cool riff before the main heavy riff, the heavy riff itself, and the intro instrumental is extended. I forgot where, but JP was playing a cool lead thing during vocals on the EP vs. original. The Another World/Don't need your sympathy is much better on the EP, as it doesn't exist on the original. JLB having space for those powerful vocals and melody is fantastic, and conveys the emotion perfectly. Then there is the 7 string riff after the blues styled solo section. And of course the outro vocals are expanded and much better on the EP (live on). And also, JLB is able to better perform the song live due to the recording happening after his stomach issues. The original version had some high notes/screams.

So what ultimately the original has going for it that the EP doesn't is the aforementioned instrumental unison part, and the preceding the backing of JP's solo blues part is much better. JP's solo in that part is also better than what was recorded IMO.

[Darkstarshades]

Why they didn't brought the unison back in the EP considering Derek's great ability is beyond me.

Derek's keyboards in the EP version are greatly restrained, they aren't in any way his best. I've always placed Derek above KM in oveall technical skill, and he could have done so much better, I'm sure of that.

[Rodni Demental]

I have never really cared for the earlier versions.  It does not sound cohesive and focused.  The official version is much better to me.

And as far as performances go, the LSFNY version slays them all.

Except all the cute little additions ruin it.  Here we have a beautiful song about a teens last time seeing his mother alive, his gratitude to his teacher for telling him that very day to never take his loved ones for granted, the uncertainty about his future as he now navigates life with people trying to give him their sympathy without really understanding what he is going through, and lets just throw in a little Simpsons melody and a baseball ditty.  Blah.

I see what you're saying, but then I don't necessarily understand why having the reference has to take away from that other stuff? If anything it's a cool contrast from what could otherwise be almost too tragically serious. It's alright to take a serious tone, but I doubt that's even the intention as the song doesn't exactly solely focus on the tragedy itself, it's more about growing and adapting to the forever changing processes of life. So if anything I think a light hearted bit like that adds to the mood and even relates to the overall themes associated with the song (Be it the original bit with goofy whistle at the end or The Simpsons reference). Besides, even if I'm way off base here, I don't believe throwing in a DT style nugget like that could possibly take away from the song, stuff like that normally makes me like a song even more. 

[Sycsa]

Why they didn't brought the unison back in the EP considering Derek's great ability is beyond me.

Derek's keyboards in the EP version are greatly restrained, they aren't in any way his best. I've always placed Derek above KM in oveall technical skill, and he could have done so much better, I'm sure of that.

Listening to Planet X, yeah, I'd also say that Derek is a stunning technician. But if you listen to OIALT, it's quite apparent that he struggles with some of KM's parts and often reproduces them in a simplified manner.

I always saw it this way: Derek wasn't as good as KevMo (that's why DT was so hesitant in making him a full time member in the first place), but when he got the boot, he was determined to up his game to show everyone how good he can be. So he started practicing fiercely and got his playing to a new level with Planet X.

I think this DS quote supports this theory nicely: "When I started Planet X, I had one goal: to start the sickest instrumental band in the world. I wanted to find musicans that played their instruments so fiercely, it would strike fear in the hearts of other musicians when they played."

[hefdaddy42]

Derek became a lot better as a keyboardist following his stint with DT.