White people and rap music

[Dream Team]

Something called "Flo-Ri-Da" appeared on the Today show yesterday and seemed to be popular with White people, and it made me think of this topic.

This isn't necessarily a topic restricted to just music, but I've always been curious as to why Whites are so quick to adopt Black culture but it doesn't seem to work the other way around. How many blacks do you see at a metal concert? As opposed to how many Whites seem to embrace rap. Anyway, I think we can keep the topic civil and non-insulting to either race. It applies to dress, language, etc  - it only seems to go the way of Blacks influencing Whites. Any thoughts?

[LudwigVan]

It's weird. I know plenty of black people that hate blues music and don't want anything to do with it.

[Zook]

I like several rap songs, most of those being by Eminem. I think that whole "gangsta" style is ridiculous though, and I find it hilarious/sad when I see white people (still) acting that way. You know, the stereotypical jersey wearing, pants waist down to the knees, "thug/gangsta" "accent" type.

There's a line in Emenem's When the Music Stops that says "stop trying to walk how G's walk before we spark", and I just think, "yeah, but you all look stupid, and the only thing threatening about you is your cowardess firearm.

Of course, not all black music culture is gangsta rap, so if we're talking about blues too, I hate blues music. Just can't stand it. Every music genre has it's silliness though. Black Metal? I think that's our gangsta rap style. Just as embarrassing.

[chaossystem]

The OP has got SEVERAL things wrong!

First of all There ARE black people who have the GOOD SENSE to HATE rap, as everyone SHOULD...

Also I KNOW that there are black (American) people who like bands such as Iron Maiden, Dream Theater, Yes and (YUCK!) Led Zeppelin.

I ALSO know that there are black people who like OTHER examples of so-called "white culture." such as British (Hammer) horror movies, and that there are plenty of American black people who are fans of white actors & actresses and movies that aren't necessarily "Afro-Centric!"

[KevShmev]

The OP has got SEVERAL things wrong!

First of all There ARE black people who have the GOOD SENSE to HATE rap, as everyone SHOULD...

Also I KNOW that there are black (American) people who like bands such as Iron Maiden, Dream Theater, Yes and (YUCK!) Led Zeppelin.

I ALSO know that there are black people who like OTHER examples of so-called "white culture." such as British (Hammer) horror movies, and that there are plenty of American black people who are fans of white actors & actresses and movies that aren't necessarily "Afro-Centric!"

 

I am thinking you completely missed the point here, with all due respect.

[Heretic]

Yeah, chaossystem, sorry man, but there are tons of good rap/hip-hop artists out there. No reason to say everyone should dislike something you dislike, that's just being pedantic.

As for adoption of cultures, I think it all just boils down to what people like. I like a lot of genres of music, and I don't particularly care what race/ethnic group/religion/etc. started said brand of music-- I just listen to it if I enjoy it. I know that others aren't like that, and listen to the kind of music that they are "stereotypical" of and supposed to like, but it's all music to me.

[Sacul]

Why should everyone hate rap music?

Can't comment on the rest since there's no such mashup of cultures in my country 

[hefdaddy42]

The OP has got SEVERAL things wrong!

First of all There ARE black people who have the GOOD SENSE to HATE rap, as everyone SHOULD...

Not this shit again

[King Postwhore]

 

[wolfking]

The OP has got SEVERAL things wrong!

First of all There ARE black people who have the GOOD SENSE to HATE rap, as everyone SHOULD...

Also I KNOW that there are black (American) people who like bands such as Iron Maiden, Dream Theater, Yes and (YUCK!) Led Zeppelin.

I ALSO know that there are black people who like OTHER examples of so-called "white culture." such as British (Hammer) horror movies, and that there are plenty of American black people who are fans of white actors & actresses and movies that aren't necessarily "Afro-Centric!"

Is this post for real?

[hefdaddy42]

Yes.

[King Postwhore]

Hef said it wrong.


Fo Sho.

[wolfking]

Yes.

[Evermind]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oeE1SHM2dg

[orcus116]

Yes.

Really? It reeks of a troll post.

[Zook]

Yes.

Really? It reeks of a troll post.

Unfortunately it isn't.

[425]

Yes.

Really? It reeks of a troll post.

chaossytem is all too real.


On the subject of the OP, I don't really have an answer, but I guess I would remind you that, in the United States, white people are a little less than 70% of the population, and black people are somewhere around 16%. So if a certain percentage of the white population got into rap music, it would be a larger number of people than the same percentage of black people getting into, say, metal (this is assuming that rap had an original fanbase that was entirely black, and metal had an original fanbase that was entirely white, which isn't really true, but for the purposes of this example we'll assume it). So if 10% of the white population becomes rap fans, it looks like there are a lot of white rap fans (7% of the overall population), whereas if 10% of the black population got into metal, it looks like there are not very many black fans of metal (1.6% of the overall population).

I don't know if this accounts entirely for what OP noticed or not, but it's a good thing to keep in mind when taking a look at this by population.

[Genowyn]

There's also this (real or perceived) pressure in black communities to act properly 'black', and getting into 'white culture' would be seen by some narrow-minded idiots to be betraying your race or something. As to why this doesn't work the other way around, it's because if a white person was talking about acting properly white via avoiding 'black culture' they would rightly be called a racist (and to be clear I'm saying it's racist when anyone thinks this way, not just white people).

[dparrott]

Something called "Flo-Ri-Da" appeared on the Today show yesterday and seemed to be popular with White people, and it made me think of this topic.

SomeTHING?

Flo-rida is popular with white people because most hip-hop fans don't consider him real hip-hop.

I am a white computer nerd who loves 80's-90's hip-hop.  It's only about the music for me, not the image.  Run-DMC weren't "gangsta", Will Smith wasn't a criminal, they just made great respectable music.

[bout to crash]

Well, I don't think a white person listening to rap is necessarily "embracing black culture." It's just liking a style of music. I like a little bit of rap but jazz is probably the "blackest" music I listen to on the regular. But it doesn't mean I wear certain clothing or anything like that, it just means I like jazz.
Sure, there are lots of white folks heavily into black rappers and who might dress/talk a certain way that's normally associated with black people, but I have seen it the other way around as well and don't think much of it. People should listen to what they want and dress/talk how they want, without criticism from the outside. I don't mean you in the OP, I mean criticism from people of their race saying they're trying to be something they aren't, or whatever.
It's another thing if a white person is sort of "fetishizing" black culture and can actually be quite racist, but I won't get into that. I just mean, if a white person simply likes rap and likes clothing in stores marketed toward black folks, or if a black person looks like this, it's okay:


 It's nice when stereotypes are broken.

On a lighter note in relation to the OP: I closed a bar karaoke show with Pantera's "Cemetery Gates" the other night, and my biggest fan was a black dude who nearly lost his shit when the song started. He was shouting/cheering, dancing around, singing along, throwing me the horns, and fist-bumping me throughout the performance.
I sang "Sober" by Tool a while before that, and afterwards a black friend of mine hugged me and said "Thanks for singing that- Tool is one of my favorite bands and that's the song that got me into them." Another black guy came up to me a few minutes later and said my performance was great (and called me "my nigga"  )
With such a mixed crowd at the bar I had no idea how those songs were going to go over, and people loved it!

[pain of occupation]

I'm not American, but according to my perception, Genowyn pretty much nailed that reply.

[seasonsinthesky]

It's another thing if a white person is sort of "fetishizing" black culture and can actually be quite racist, but I won't get into that.

I'm pretty sure this is faaaaar more prevalent in society than most people in this topic are crediting. Especially when you consider the amount of money rap music has been making since the '80s, and how much of an impact rap and hip hop artists have on pop and youth culture – it should have been obvious to everyone during the initial phase in the early '80s that white men in particular were going to hop on the train eventually and assume control and profits.

This isn't to discount matters of taste, though. I don't mean to say there aren't lots of people who genuinely enjoy the music. Of course that happens, and very often. It's just that racism is still so ingrained in Western culture that a lot of people act in problematic ways about cultural crossover, many of whom don't even realize why they behave the way they do.

[Mosh]

It's another thing if a white person is sort of "fetishizing" black culture and can actually be quite racist, but I won't get into that.

I'm pretty sure this is faaaaar more prevalent in society than most people in this topic are crediting. Especially when you consider the amount of money rap music has been making since the '80s, and how much of an impact rap and hip hop artists have on pop and youth culture – it should have been obvious to everyone during the initial phase in the early '80s that white men in particular were going to hop on the train eventually and assume control and profits

Would you consider that a race issue though? Seems like that will happen with anything that becomes trendy, regardless of who makes it.

[seasonsinthesky]

It's another thing if a white person is sort of "fetishizing" black culture and can actually be quite racist, but I won't get into that.

I'm pretty sure this is faaaaar more prevalent in society than most people in this topic are crediting. Especially when you consider the amount of money rap music has been making since the '80s, and how much of an impact rap and hip hop artists have on pop and youth culture – it should have been obvious to everyone during the initial phase in the early '80s that white men in particular were going to hop on the train eventually and assume control and profits

Would you consider that a race issue though? Seems like that will happen with anything that becomes trendy, regardless of who makes it.

You're definitely right about that, nothing really escapes rich white old men if it could make them more money!

I think in some instances it has to be a race issue – locs as a hairstyle, for instance. I would also place rap and hip hop in this category but I'm not well-read about the origins of the genre beyond the obvious Herbie Hancock record and the early artists at the time.

It's entirely possible to participate respectfully in another culture, and no doubt people do. It just so happens that white people frequently appropriate and then profit from them without ever working together and sharing profits with the actual culture. Think of the number of times in history huge things have been accomplished by women and people of colour who went uncredited because a white dude/husband took credit instead – then apply it to culture instead of science or technology or mathematics. Seems a little more heinous to me, somehow.

[Chino]

My dad was the only white guy in a 14 man funk band back in the 70s. He'd play black clubs where out of a good 500 people, he was the only white dude in the house. He always said they didn't mind that he was white because he could play the music better than they could. He also denied smoking pot until I was about 24 or so. I always knew that had to be bullshit. There's no way you are in an 14 man funk band and not rolling one up every now and then.

As far as blacks adopting white music, I'm not really sure why. I think a large underlying element is that a lot of people being brought up in black communities hear nothing but rap from the time they are born. Most of that music embraces black customs and puts down (in many cases rightfully so) a lot of the stuff white have done to them as a people. With many inner city children growing up without dads, they begin to idolize rappers, and turning their interest to any music outside of that culture might seem disrespectuful to the black community as a whole.

As for whites adopting black music... I grew up listening to everything except rap. I grew up on Tom Petty, The Eagles, Tower of Power, Steely Dan, Third Eye Blind, Stevie Wonder, etc... I don't not like rap music because it's primarily black, I hate it because compared to what I grew up listening to, it sounds like absolute shit.

[SoundscapeMN]

check out Myke C-Town's channel.

https://www.youtube.com/user/mykectown

[dparrott]

My dad was the only white guy in a 14 man funk band back in the 70s. He'd play black clubs where out of a good 500 people, he was the only white dude in the house.

I went to some rap concerts in the 80's and I was probably the whitest dude in the house.  I didn't get hassled for it though.  One of them at the L.A. Palladium had dudes throwing up gang signs and there was a drive-by outside during the concert.

[KevShmev]

I remember the first time I saw Kansas back in the summer of 1995 at a free show downtown, and a black guy right next to us was singing along to Dust in the Wind like it was nobody's business, which at the time I thought was so awesome because, let's face it, back then at least you almost never saw blacks at the rock concerts I went to, and to see a black dude not only there, but so into it, was kind of eye-opening.  I was only 21 at the time, but probably still a bit naive.

[bout to crash]

Well, that's pretty much how I felt just last week at karaoke seeing a black dude rock out so hard to Pantera 
I mean, I know black people like metal, but the fact that he was the most enthusiastic in the crowd surprised me. There was this angry-looking bald white dude in the back that I thought (stereotyped) would be into it, but he just sat there and scowled the whole night.

[hefdaddy42]

He was upset that other people were interrupting his angst with fun.

[SoundscapeMN]

check out Myke C-Town's channel.

https://www.youtube.com/user/mykectown

Check out his latest Vinyl video; where he shows a couple of Helloween records.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2VQDWEhEIs

[LudwigVan]

I remember the first time I saw Kansas back in the summer of 1995 at a free show downtown, and a black guy right next to us was singing along to Dust in the Wind like it was nobody's business, which at the time I thought was so awesome because, let's face it, back then at least you almost never saw blacks at the rock concerts I went to, and to see a black dude not only there, but so into it, was kind of eye-opening.  I was only 21 at the time, but probably still a bit naive.

This reminds me of the time there was a beautiful girl standing in front of me at a Dream Theater concert absolutely rocking out and singing along to all the songs. I was like holy shit and I pretty much fell in love on the spot.

[Cable]

Back when my part-time job was my full time, I would transport clients around. Frequently, I would let these adolescents play their music in my car. And more often than not, what I heard was uninspiring. I feel the ganster part of music is even more prevalent in music, if that's possible. It's like if Cannibal Corpse got more brutal in the lyrics basically.

But what really is meh to me is the vocal delivery. Snoop Dogg sounded lazy in his delivery, but he actually wasn't. He annunciated well, and it's just the timing he had. These days, people like Chief Keef sound lazy and very monotone in their delivery. And then we get to choruses and other sung parts. Minus Drake, who also does it at times, they frequently use auto-tune because they cannot sing. Maybe the ease of recording has influenced rap/hip-hop/urban music too?

I just don't get it fully. I understand that many relate to some of the messages. But it's just the same beat loop, and sampled repetitive melody. Back when rap started, and even thru part of 2000, I feel they were much more into actual music. Even performing. These days, a lot just get up on stage with a posse of 50+ people, dance around and rap over a backing track when they remember to. I have a few rap albums, but I cannot deny that the messages are very off putting at times. Sure, I know that is life in low-income areas- doesn't mean hearing "pistol toting, yeah I'm shooting on sight" is a good creed to have.

As far as rap and white people, I'm not saying this is the case. But again taking to clients of adolescent age- one was a metalhead, still dressed it, but all of sudden liked rap when his crew did. Another, when building rapport, noted how he liked rap cuz that was cool in his area. I mention, when he asked me, what my favorite music was, I said like Tool but not. He then got all excited and me all about Tool, the albums he had and how he loves them.

[Sacul]

You should really check Kendrick Lamar's last album - such an eclectic mix of hip-hop with jazz, funk, and some blues. Kendrick can rap in multiple styles with such ease. And the concept is very mature and introspective.