Author Topic: Mike Mangini through the years  (Read 25845 times)

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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Mike Mangini through the years v.13 Subdivisions: A Tribute to Rush
« Reply #70 on: July 29, 2015, 09:11:55 PM »
Fourteenth part:

STYGIA (demo)

Tracks played in:

Rise
Phoenix
Perfect Dark


Mike Mangini became full-time faculty in Berklee, and this limited his time to play and record with fellow artists. Most of his recording output during his full-time stint in Berklee would be with Boston-based artists and...yeah, for a Mike Mangini fan like me, 2006 - 2009 was not a good time.

This demo with supposedly a supergroup is just...bad. Granted that this is a demo, but the songs by Stygia really sound like a bunch of talented guys strutting their chops but not really meshing to create good music.

You can listen to the demo here.


Coming next, Mike reunites with Annihilator. Good things happen, but...

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Mike Mangini through the years v.14 Stygia
« Reply #71 on: August 04, 2015, 01:40:11 AM »
Fifteenth part:

METAL by ANNIHILATOR (2007/2008)

Tracks played in:

Clown Parade
Couple Suicide
Army of One
Downright Dominate
Smothered
Operation Annihilation
Haunted
Kicked
Detonation
Chasing the High
Heavy Metal Maniac


Mangini reunites again with Annihilator for studio work, and the results are the expected amazing level of drumming. The drawback, however, is that a lot of the drumming has a "been there done that" feel to it especially when listened to in relation to his work in "All For You." That does not mean that he did not introduce new elements (which I would highlight in the recommended songs), btu I guess there are only a few variations of what one can do with thrash metal, especially after his already outstanding work in the previous Annihilator album. Still, you need to listen to this:

1. Chasing the High - this is a thrash drumming masterpiece. If Mike Mangini showcased machine gun drumming with his arms in the All For You album, he showcased machine gun drumming with his lower limbs in this one. WOW was the proper description for the footwork in Chasing the High, and he can play it live. He's running out of breath, and who wouldn't be? I hope he would showcase some of this in future work with Dream Theater.

2. Downright Dominate - more blazing footwork in the chorus, and nice supporting rhythm in the guitar duel part.

3. Operation Annihilation - again, good rhythm work with the bass drums, which has been a Mangini signature.

Coming next, we are closing this journey with Mike's 2009 work.

Offline Öxölklöfför

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Re: Mike Mangini through the years v.15 Annihilator's Metal
« Reply #72 on: August 06, 2015, 01:17:40 PM »
The intro to Detonation is really cool also.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Mike Mangini through the years v.15 Annihilator's Metal
« Reply #73 on: August 07, 2015, 11:59:56 PM »
The intro to Detonation is really cool also.

Yeah, for those familiar, that is a staple of Mike's drum solos. :) The drumming in the song itself is pretty standard, though.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Mike Mangini through the years v.15 Annihilator's Metal
« Reply #74 on: August 09, 2015, 11:06:15 PM »
Sixteenth part:

BOO! by DANIEL PIQUE (2009)

Tracks played in:

Croack
Over Dee Moon
Peacock Ink
Pigs Might Fly!
They Snickered At My Dreams

THE CALL OF THE FLAMES by SHREDDING THE ENVELOPE (2009)

Tracks played in:

The Call of the Flames
Standstill and Scream
Devils Roadmap
Caravan of Cannibals
Where Are My Real Brothers
Ruby Avalanche Red Flood
I Just Don't Want to Say Goodbye
The Wonder, the Curse, and the Crave
Shredding the Envelope

OUT OF OBLIVION by ETHAN BROSH (2009)

The Hit Man
Night City
Downward Spiral
Ancient Land
Illusion
In a Sentimental Mood
Blade Runner
Last Hope


2009 was a busy year for Mangini. Aside from teaching full-time in Berklee, he also played session drums for several new acts. It is nice to see Mangini supporting up and coming artists despite his already considerable stature in the industry at the time. And the good thing about Mangini is that even if these are newbies, he does not phone in his performance. The drumming in these albums is superb. However, the overall quality of the music is not really up to par. The Call of the Flames by Shredding the Envelope (Dave Reffett), in particular, is testosterone-driven wank that I barely find listenable. The full album is downloadable for free here. Daniel Pique's Boo is just marginally better, just take his self-proclaimed "he is the most influential artist of this new generation in South America, maybe in the world?!" with a grain of salt. And hey, the album is legally downloadable for free also.

Of the bunch, I find Ethan Brosh's work best. The Berklee alum really has composition skills and serious chops. I just with he would have a better taste in making music videos. Mangini's drumming is awesome in that song anyway (and it features THE George Lynch).

Still, Mangini fans like me can only say at the time, is this really what is due for the great Mike Mangini while still at his prime? Supporting new acts? He deserves a bigger stage to showcase his amazing talents. He deserves to be in a pantheon of elites where his creativity is pushed to its limits. And you know what?

THANK GOD FOR DREAM THEATER.

And with that, I think I will close this Through The Years thread with my favorite Mike Mangini statement on how much he is cherishing his opportunity to be with Dream Theater. I hope that through this thread, I have somehow made you, my fellow DTFers, better appreciate  the journey the Genie took before he landed his dream job with Dream Theater.

Quote
Peter Hodgson: So what’s it like, being the drummer in Dream Theater? It’s the dream job for a lot of drummers!

Mike Mangini: It’s been a major point in my life with the fulfilment of what I want to be and who I want to be. My path up until that point was that I had been in bands or working as a drummer and I got to the point where I really didn’t want to work for someone else and be at someone else’s whim because you’re not paid retainer sometimes, you’re hired when you’re hired and you’ve gotta look for jobs in between. I took a job at Berklee College and I started to really bloom over there in terms of learning way more things than I thought. There was so much to make me think, because I was being asked so many different things by students. I dug in and I did well there but the thing is I was taken away from what I loved the most, which was playing. And once you start to teach at a college, they say ‘This is your main gig,’ and I understand what they mean; it’s my main income. That’s what it is. But the main gig is in my heart, y’know? That’s playing, and you teach based on playing. Eventually I had to play more. I didn’t find a way to let both worlds exist – well, I did but then there were some changes happening there and then the opportunity for me to take advantage of gigs and things got squashed so I didn’t wanna live with that. I became open to getting into a band and lo and behold, the opportunity hit me. I had to be prepared for it though, and I really wasn’t physically prepared for it although I was emotionally prepared for it. I don’t know how but I somehow… no, you know what it is? I do know how: my pattern recognition is really high and I also work with very, very large, multi-simultaneous time signatures. I don’t do the typical five and seven at the same time – which is really difficult, y’know? But I’m doing stuff that is rare. I don’t know who else is doing the 19 and 18 at the same time, 17 and 21 at the same time. Usually it’s very small numbers at the same time. So when Dream Theater tested me I got everything the first time because it was only one thing, it wasn’t even two things at the same time, and it was bars of seven and six and eight and four. That’s really far below what my pattern recognition is capable of, so I was able to be a musician. In other words, it wasn’t technical to me, it was easy. No matter how that sounds, it was, and I was able to do everything the first time they asked me and make music with it. I’m still doing that to this day with them. It was a liberation of the spirit. Y’know, today the word ‘liberal’ has been completely perverted. A lot of words are perverted. ‘Choice’ doesn’t mean ‘choice,’ it means someone else is making a choice who doesn’t get a choice. People don’t look up what words mean, and the word ‘liberal’ used to mean liberation of the spirit, not liberation of the human, like human nature: “Don’t tell me what to do, don’t tell me who to sleep with.” The original word is very religious in nature and it has to do with spiritual liberation. Get away from human nature and move toward who you should be as a person fulfilling all these gifts you’ve been given. And for me it was a true liberation. And I know that’s a lengthy explanation and you’ll have to squelch my words down into one sentence instead of five sentences, but I want you to know what I mean. So for me, getting that phone call, getting that opportunity, it was liberating for my spirit, because I had set up a drum set but had nobody that let me play my drums. Really, really let me go, y’know? It was great with Vai. I was able to be a bit more myself but I was also working for Steve. And what made me really happy working for Steve was that his ideas were things that turned me on. For example, Vai was one of the few people that would tell me every note to play sometimes, but I liked that, and that’s why we got along. We got along because I liked what he told me, because he told me unorthodox stuff. And we laughed! We had a lot of humour. We came up with drum parts that were just funny. I don’t mean that it’s funny to hit the seventh note of an 11-note run, but he and I would laugh about it, that I could do it, or that he heard it in his mind. We were a team, we were like soul mates with that stuff. And now with Dream Theater it’s a sense of fulfilment that I’m in a band where there are five of us all moving in the same direction. And that’s why I cried [upon being named new Dream Theater drummer]; because I wanted liberation of the spirit. It’s part of the gifts I’ve been given. It was really emotional for me.

Offline erwinrafael

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And as a final shot, here is my own Mike Mangini Top 10 songs list. This I think is the best of the Genie's work so far:

10. Incantation

9. Surrender to Reason

8. Demon Dance

7. Crucify

6. Bangkok + Fire Garden Suite

5. Bridges in the Sky

4. Alone

3. Chasing the High

2. Egg Zooming

1. Illumination Theory


Hoping for much more excellent work ahead with Dream Theater!

Offline Sycsa

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Thank you, this was enormously fun. A thread for the ages. :clap:


Sycsa is perhaps the most brilliant and insightful man I have ever encountered.

Offline erwinrafael

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Thank you, this was enormously fun. A thread for the ages. :clap:

Should have done this earlier but better late than never.

Offline SwedishGoose

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Thank you, this was enormously fun. A thread for the ages. :clap:

Should have done this earlier but better late than never.

Been lurking for quite some time here.... this thread made me need to register just to say thank you for a fantastic summation of Mangini's work up until DT

Offline erwinrafael

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Thank you, this was enormously fun. A thread for the ages. :clap:

Should have done this earlier but better late than never.

Been lurking for quite some time here.... this thread made me need to register just to say thank you for a fantastic summation of Mangini's work up until DT

Thanks. :)

Sharing a recently uploaded English version of an interview with Mangini in Spain back in 2013. I like his story about the audition and his years as a software engineer. :)

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Vl1Tq5hkNXo

Offline Kotowboy

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^ The part where he says he can't bear people who are late.

That drives me nuts too. Being late once or twice is ok but people who are consistently late every time - there's no excuse for that.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Mike Mangini through the years v.15 Annihilator's Metal
« Reply #81 on: August 16, 2015, 01:57:54 PM »
The intro to Detonation is really cool also.

I thought the most interesting part was that Mike switched to classic grip. Didn't know he does that.
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Offline erwinrafael

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His WFD record also includes traditional grip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHqfJFl_qzM

His fast drumming part in his solos almost always are with traditional grip.

His fastest though is not in traditional grip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7TzWrKso4I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akoezeof8XY
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 09:10:46 PM by erwinrafael »

Offline erwinrafael

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Offline Kotowboy

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Fucking Portrait Videos

Offline erwinrafael

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This vid surfaced just recently. A young Mangini doing a Steve Vai demo. Toms are still traditional set-up.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k3-g0BKtPeE

The hair!

Offline Bertielee

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This vid surfaced just recently. A young Mangini doing a Steve Vai demo. Toms are still traditional set-up.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k3-g0BKtPeE

The hair!

I love Here and Now and MM's performance is wow! "Take one"?!?  :o

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Offline mikeyd23

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This vid surfaced just recently. A young Mangini doing a Steve Vai demo. Toms are still traditional set-up.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k3-g0BKtPeE

The hair!

Fantastic watch... Thanks for sharing!

Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Intersting recent upload.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QQD7qvPzi1U

 :tup
I think that's from the Drum Fantasy Camp that went on recently. If so then that's Chrissi Poland on vocals, James Genus on bass, Vinny Valention on guitar and Stu Mindeman on keys. That camp was amazing, Steve Smith, Mike Mangini, Dave Weckl, Benny Greb and Jojo Mayer. Crazy line-up!

Btw great thread!
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Offline erwinrafael

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Interesting new post from Mike Mangini:

"Do you have a friend that just doesn't 'get' Prog Music when the music gets rhythmically crazy? Know anybody that says Prog is "not musical? or "doesn't groove mannn?" It is because they can't process it in order to even have an opinion that they "like it or not." It is like they're trying to get online with no browser software on their computer. Proof is in THE quote of the century that says one HAS to learn polyrhythms to wire up in order to process, which will be EASY for us in the seminars:

"... This would indicate that activation of BA47 is specific to polyrhythm, rather than to the origin of this tension (the stimulus or the task)."

It means humans HAVE TO WIRE UP WITH POLYRHYTHMS OR THE AREA DOESN'T WORK SO A PERSON CAN PROCESS WHAT THEY'RE HEARING. No wonder they say, "I just don't' like it." Derrrrrrrrrrrrr... What else would they say? What they don't like is the feeling of not knowing, not the music. It all makes sense melodically, so they can't say it isn't melodic. The "grooves" happen to be 11/16 for example, but that IS THE GROOVE. Just because it isn't neanderthal 4/4/ all the time means it is a different groove with NO swing, not NO groove. So If you have a friend that you'd like to enjoy Dream Theater in the craziest moments, then explain a rhythm or two, make them count it out. There are rhythms I put in the last two albums that I don't feel people are picking up on with a couple of the craziest ones of all coming up on our next release. Too many people want fast food music, which I do sometimes too, but to not be able to enjoy most of the World's most deep music is just sad and it is for no good reason except that most of us just don't know how we work. Spread the word! There's hope for all. It is NEVER too late to make connections!!"

Then he links to the scientific article on polyrhythms:

https://www.petervuust.dk/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Tapping-polyrhythms-in-music-activates-language-areas.pdf

 :metal :metal :metal

Offline BlackInk

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Re: Mike Mangini through the years: New post by Mangini on polyrhythms
« Reply #90 on: October 06, 2015, 09:50:31 AM »
That quote is one of the worst thing a drummer of a band I like could say. What the actual fuck?? I like polyrhythms. I listen to a lot of music with polyrhythms in it and use it frequently in my own writing, but saying something like this is just wrong. This quote actually upsets me.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Mike Mangini through the years: New post by Mangini on polyrhythms
« Reply #91 on: October 06, 2015, 09:53:51 AM »
I've actually witnessed Mangini get steadily more and more ....arrogant is the wrong word....but outspoken about his abilities since joining the band.

When he first joined it was all " Oh wow - what an opportunity - thank you so much - i won't let you down "

to this.

And yeah - like Blob said in the other thread - whenever he talks about drumming - it's just numbers. Like his drumming comes from the head and not the heart.

Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: Mike Mangini through the years: New post by Mangini on polyrhythms
« Reply #92 on: October 06, 2015, 10:00:15 AM »
Like his drumming comes from the head and not the heart.

That's silly, and one of the lamest arguments people usually use against progressive music (ironically, that quote mentions that). If I can relate emotionally to complex progressive metal music like Periphery and Animals as Leaders, I can find the heart in that (and I do). I have no doubts that Mangini plays from the heart, because he's doing what he likes the most in the world each and every night in front of thousands. How's that not coming from the heart? The man is a scientist (he used to be a software programmer), so of course he's going to have a theoretical and very methodical approach to his craft; but that doesn't take any heart out of his playing IMO.
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Offline BlackInk

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Re: Mike Mangini through the years: New post by Mangini on polyrhythms
« Reply #93 on: October 06, 2015, 10:06:39 AM »
But apparently it makes him a douche.

Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: Mike Mangini through the years: New post by Mangini on polyrhythms
« Reply #94 on: October 06, 2015, 10:15:33 AM »
I've actually witnessed Mangini get steadily more and more ....arrogant is the wrong word....but outspoken about his abilities since joining the band.

I consider that a good thing. It could lead to him feeling more comfortable with showing his musical ideas to the band.
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Mike Mangini through the years: New post by Mangini on polyrhythms
« Reply #95 on: October 06, 2015, 10:18:51 AM »
What's wrong about the quote? He's reporting a scientific finding, which supports the technique that he uses in teaching drums. Which basically says that to get the groove in polyrhythm, your mind has to be wired to hear that groove. It is not something that a lot of us are wired to hear because we have been trained to listen to 4/4, 3/4, and 2/4.  He's basically just saying that he has a technique to help you wire the brain so that you can hear the polurhythmic groove.

I remember that I have this colleague of mine, who found what I am listening to weird and something she can not jive to. What I did is I played Hand.Cannot.Erase (the song) and counted it out to her. When she finally heard the rhythm, she copied my music files to her phone and Steven Wilson is now in her regular rotation. I also got her to listen to some DT. She enjoyed counting fown with me the decreasing time sigs in Breaking All Illusions.

That's basically what Mike is saying. Hearing the groove in polyrhythms or in odd time signatures takes getting used to. Why people would read arrogance into that speaks more about the reader than Mike himself.

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: Mike Mangini through the years: New post by Mangini on polyrhythms
« Reply #96 on: October 06, 2015, 10:23:05 AM »
But apparently it makes him a douche.

Yikes, that seems super harsh. It seemed like he was just passionately expressing his finding on a topic he cares deeply about.

Offline The Stray Seed

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Re: Mike Mangini through the years: New post by Mangini on polyrhythms
« Reply #97 on: October 06, 2015, 10:38:52 AM »
Like his drumming comes from the head and not the heart.

That's silly, and one of the lamest arguments people usually use against progressive music (ironically, that quote mentions that). If I can relate emotionally to complex progressive metal music like Periphery and Animals as Leaders, I can find the heart in that (and I do). I have no doubts that Mangini plays from the heart, because he's doing what he likes the most in the world each and every night in front of thousands. How's that not coming from the heart? The man is a scientist (he used to be a software programmer), so of course he's going to have a theoretical and very methodical approach to his craft; but that doesn't take any heart out of his playing IMO.

Great post, I totally agree. Also, isn't Mike's post actually about this specific misunderstanding? If your perception is not trained, what you perceive will not match the true form of what you are witnessing (with "true form" meaning how it was originally conceived). Feelings you get from something are totally depending by the way you look (or don't look) at that something. Like when you see movies with a medieval setting and you think that is the actual way they did fight - and even feel thrilled by those extrafake duels xD After learning historic swordsfighting myself, I can just shake my head when I see those same movies again! Do we still listen to each and every band we used to dig when we were younger? I don't think so, our perception is dynamic, it changes as time passes by and we learn more things, we live different experiences, we acquire new perspectives, we feel different emotions, we develop different states of mind.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Mike Mangini through the years: New post by Mangini on polyrhythms
« Reply #98 on: October 06, 2015, 10:43:35 AM »
About the head versus heart comment...the context of the post is that it was directed to people who might want to attend his clinics. If your perception is that music comes purely from the heart, then it is something you can not teach. What Mike is saying is that we can actually learn music, because we can wire our brains to learn it. That is the essence of his The Grid system.

The actual elitists are those who insist that music is purely heart, no head, because it implies that it can not be taught, it can not be learned.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 10:59:00 AM by erwinrafael »

Offline tofee35

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Re: Mike Mangini through the years: New post by Mangini on polyrhythms
« Reply #99 on: October 06, 2015, 11:13:25 AM »
I love that he openly addresses the most critiqued part of his drumming. It comes from being criticized so much on his groove, he feels like he has to explain what his groove is and why it's difficult for people to relate to. He's defending his work, which is commendable.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 11:25:04 AM by tofee35 »

Offline rumborak

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Re: Mike Mangini through the years: New post by Mangini on polyrhythms
« Reply #100 on: October 06, 2015, 11:29:19 AM »
It's a pretty bad statement to make nonetheless. Good prog never was just an exercise in numbers. It used the numbers as a tool, but they weren't the means to their own end.
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Mike Mangini through the years: New post by Mangini on polyrhythms
« Reply #101 on: October 06, 2015, 11:36:57 AM »
So where in this statement did he say that prog is just about numbers? He did NOT say that.

What he said is that some people can not get into prog because they can not understand the rhythm. How does that translate into prog is just about numbers?

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Mike Mangini through the years: New post by Mangini on polyrhythms
« Reply #102 on: October 06, 2015, 11:47:56 AM »
So where in this statement did he say that prog is just about numbers? He did NOT say that.

What he said is that some people can not get into prog because they can not understand the rhythm. How does that translate into prog is just about numbers?

I was referencing something Blob said about him talking about drumming and he talks mostly in numbers.

Offline BlackInk

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Re: Mike Mangini through the years: New post by Mangini on polyrhythms
« Reply #103 on: October 06, 2015, 12:02:16 PM »
What he said is that some people can not get into prog because they can not understand the rhythm. How does that translate into prog is just about numbers?

What he really said if you actually look at how he phrased it was that people who don't completely understand the rhythms aren't allowed to have an opinion on whether they like it or not. To that I say "shut the fuck up".

Honestly, what he said is just like when some newb comes on here and says "if you don't like this thing that I like, that just means you don't understand it". That always annoys the shit out of me. Professionals on this level should really be above that. THAT'S my main problem with this quote. I'm not doubting anything about the science here, that's all fine. But how this guy says it is just bad and condescending.

Offline SjundeInseglet

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Re: Mike Mangini through the years: New post by Mangini on polyrhythms
« Reply #104 on: October 06, 2015, 01:02:41 PM »
I don't think he's saying that the  people who don't completely understand the rhythms aren't allowed to have an opinion on whether they like it or not. What he's saying is that they probably would feel otherwise if they took the time to actually listen to the music past the first, immediate impression. I don't see how you can read that as being condescending.