Mike Mangini through the years

[erwinrafael]

Eighth part:

JAMES LABRIE'S MULLMUZZLER 2 by JAMES LABRIE'S MULLMUZZLER

Tracks played in:

Afterlife
Venice Burning
Confronting the Devil
Falling
Stranger
A Simple Man
Save Me
Believe
Listening
Tell Me


Re-listening to this record now, I realized that this is the first time the Mike Mangini that we would hear in A Dramatic Turn of Events showed up. His work with Extreme and Steve Vai had the different elements of his drum style, but MullMuzzler 2 has the combo that we would similarly hear in ADTOE, although in a less polished version. Amazing bass drum control, highlighting the different instruments in the orchestration, melodic use of the different elements of the drum kit, limb independence, speedy drum fills - this album has the Mangini that Dream Theater fans would recognize.

In my analysis, the much better quality of drumming in MullMuzzler 2 compared to MullMuzzler's first album, Keep It To Yourself, was driven by the more appropriate musical arrangements of the songs. There is no pretension to sound metal and badass all the time, so we got more disciplined, more appropriate, and more technically proficient drum parts. There were some rough parts where Mangini sounded like he's doing too much, for example, in songs like Stranger and Listening where there were fills that sounded awkward. But overall, this album is a very good drum album. Not yet at the level of the drumming in the Dream Theater albums, but the signs that he's going to reach that level are in this album. MullMuzzler 2 also boasts one of the best sounding studio drum production for Mike Mangini.

MullMuzzler 2 further highlights that Mangini's drumming specialty is in orchestration and in rhythmic drumming, not in drum fills. He does not do drum fills much, and it seems like a stylistic choice to concentrate the creative energies more on drumming within the context of the song. This is important to note because this could explain why the drumming in Mangini-era Dream theater albums sound different from the Portnoy-era Dream Theater albums, and I don't expect that it would change much in future albums.

For drumming highlights, make a playlist of these three songs:

1. Venice Burning - For some reason, there are no active uploads of this song in Youtube. The drumming in this song would really pass for drumming in ADTOE, reminding me a bit of his drumming in Lost Not Forgotten. The bass drum parts are amazing, especially in the instrumental part where the bass drums did all the work while the other limbs maintained the beat. Must listen if you want to learn bass drum control.

2. Save Me - Bam baBam baBam. Killer drum riff. Very good straight-up metal drumming.

3. Tell Me - My favorite drumming in MullMuzzler 2. Mangini plays blast beats while hitting half-notes in the hi-hat with his right arm. Aggressive drumming, with amazing phrasing in the bass drums and accents in the cymbals. Groovy drumming in the chorus. This is perfect.

Coming next, an underappreciated gem of a rock album. Mangini stretches his playing style yet again and plays industrial.

[erwinrafael]

Ninth part:

EXIT ELVIS by TRIBE OF JUDAH

Tracks played in:

Left for Dead
No One
East of Paradise
Thanks for Nothing
Celibate
Ambiguous Headdress
In My Dreams
Suspension of Disbelief
My Utopia (Anthropolemic)
Exit Elvis


Mike Mangini has a funny story for his involvement in this album. From this interview:

"Oh, you’re interviewin’ Gary? It’s funny, you know… we were both out in LA at the same time… we had gone out there at the same time -- me for Vai and him for Van Halen… and ran into each other playin’ pool. We kept in touch during that time… when I finished up with Vai -- he had called me right before I was leavin’… I was going to take a position at Berklee School of Music and really excited. He called me when I was going to get my gear out of storage at this warehouse -- I had gotten stuck in the elevator -- we were just stuck there -- he calls -- I’m stuck there, and need to get my gear -- he says we have to have dinner… I said, “I’m going home…” and he said, “We have to have dinner tonight!” I said, “Gary I’m tryin’ to go home…”. He said, “We have to have dinner tonight… I’m leaving Van Halen.” So, jeez…now I’m trying to get out of the elevator and get my gear -- But I ended up meeting him for dinner… and then it was like, “Well, I’ll see back home.”... and that was it.”



Drumming in yet another style, Mike Mangini's work in Tribe of Judah is a mix of rock, industrial, and doing his best drum machine / programming mimicry. It has been taken down now, but in his old website, I remember Mangini saying that they would program drum parts for this record, and then he drummed it in a kit during the recording. So, no programmed drum parts here (although don't take my word for it, I am just going by memory here).

Because of the nature of the songs in this record, Mangini's focus here was establishing catchy, most of the time danceable, beats. For essential drum listening in this album, I would recommend:

1. No One - Yeah, right, drum machine Mangini can't groove. He shows how to drum the basic groove here, using his C&C system of limb coordination using the eyes.

2.  East of Paradise - less flash than No One, but wow, that drum groove is just danceable.

3. Thanks for Nothing - the guy in the vid is not Mangini, but Mangini's the one who played this.  Very good straight-up hard rock drumming. Angry drumming, even, like Portnoy's drumming in Awake.

4. Suspension of Disbelief - Mike plays disco!


Coming next, Mangini reunites with Jeff Waters. And this time, Mike brings his machine gun.

[erwinrafael]

Anybody here who has listened to the Tim Donahue album, Madmen and Sinners? I do not have that album, but only heard bits and pieces of it in Youtube. It came out before All For You, so maybe somebody can share what Mangini sounded like in that album before we go to Annihilator.

[Woodworker1]

Great thread; I have been listening to the YouTube Links and really enjoying hearing music I don't normally listen to.  Thanks for putting all this together.

[Setlist Scotty]

Erwin, PM sent.

[Kotowboy]

I find it funny when drummers do instructional videos and they're like

" Ok for this song - you'll need 5 hi hats "

[erwinrafael]

I find it funny when drummers do instructional videos and they're like

" Ok for this song - you'll need 5 hi hats "

LOL!

Mike has a free lesson here to develop limb coordination, and it's very helpful.

https://www.drumheadmag.com/web/page.php?id=10

Video of the basic system:

https://www.drumheadmag.com/web/v1_images/education/ed_video/1_ed_cclimbexp.swf

I think he would be a fun teacher.

[erwinrafael]

Tenth part

ALL FOR YOU by ANNIHILATOR (2004)

Tracks played in:

All for You
Dr. Psycho
Demon Dance
The One
Bled
Both of Me
Rage Absolute
The Nightmare Factory
The Sound of Horror


THE ONE by ANNIHILATOR (2004)

Track played in, not included in All For You:

Weapon X


Mike Mangini reunites with Jeff Waters, and this album is like the unleashing of the beast. Mangini has had an outstanding discography before this, but I would say that his playing in the previous albums are best appreciated by those who would intently listen to the drum parts and appreciate the nuances. In All For You, Mangini's playing is literally screaming "SUPER DRUMMER!" because the display of chops is very in-your-face.

While Mangini has shown flashes of speed in previous albums, All For You is the first album that exploited Machine Gun Mike consistently. The highlights of this album are the extremely fast drum rolls and the fast double bass playing, which would put death metal drummers to shame because Mangini uses speed with orchestration. All For You made Mangini a force to reckon with in metal, which became both a blessing and a curse because it would stylistically box him in the years to come (with the exception of his 2005 work) until the chance to play with Dream Theater came along.

If I would recommend highlight songs in terms of drumming, listen to these (and let your jaw drop. LOL):

1. Weapon X -  that's just a short sampler. Amazing thrash metal drumming with crazy fast drum rolls!
2. Demon Dance - More thrash! I think the drums in this song are mixed too low as I sometimes can not distinguish some of the drum rolls from the riffing[/url]. When I first heard this, I did not finish it because the drumming is too intense I had to take some time to take it in.
3. Rage Absolute - Still more thrash? Well, I was thinking of not including this because I already recommended Demon Dance, but this part just begs to be shared for awesomeness.
4. Both of Me - Best drum track in the album. Orchestration is topnotch. Whenever I listen to this song, I can not help but picture Mangini playing this with his "I'm having fun" face and body language (you know, the one we saw in The Shattered Fortress). Definitely one of the Mangini masterpieces.


Coming next, we would stay in 2004 as I feature Mike's collaboration with Tim Donahue. Thanks to goo goo!

[erwinrafael]

Just wanted to share that because of this "project", I have created a "The Mike Mangini sampler" playlist consisting of 14 songs he played in before joining Dream Theater. Total running time is 1 hour, 18 m, 35 s, so it would fit in one CD. I think this playlist would show how accomplished a drummer Mike is before DT. I'll share this once the series is complete.

I have a lot of time in my hands.  Actually, this thread is my stress reliever while I am doing my MA thesis.

EDIT:

Damn it, here you go.

Enjoy!

[Bertielee]

Hey, Erwin, you know you should work more on your MA, right? Joke aside, very good job and very informative. Kuddos!

B.Lee

[erwinrafael]

Eleventh part

MADMEN & SINNERS by TIM DONAHUE (2004)

Tracks played in:

Million Miles
My Heart Bleeds
Feel My Pain
Children of the Flame
The End
Master of the Mind
Madmen & Sinners


This work is decent enough. Definitely not among Mangini's best work, but it is professionally done. The style echoes much of the style used in MullMuzzler 2, but the songs are just not strong enough to give Mangini much material to work with. The 16-minute "epic" Madmen & Sinners" is my big letdown for this album because it doesn't have enough interesting parts to warrant the length of the song.

There are good drum tracks here:

1. Master of the Mind - good orchestration, especially in the instrumental parts, with the off-beat cymbal accents.

2. Million Miles - This one is pretty good, ad I'm sure I would have enjoyed this more if there is better drum production.


Coming next, Mike Mangini partners again with James LaBrie and comes up with a second gem of an album.

[Madman Shepherd]

Haven't listened to this in a while but it is one of my favorite LaBrie side projects.  I would need to listen more intently to the drums to comment.  Usually I concentrate on the wicked fretless guitar that Donahue's playing. 

[erwinrafael]

I think Tim should have done more instrumental sections. That is when the album shines. LaBrie was good, but the vocal melodies are just not memorable.

[erwinrafael]

Twelfth part

ELEMENTS OF PERSUASION by JAMES LABRIE (2005)

Tracks played in:

Crucify
Alone
Freaks
Invisible
Lost
Undecided
Smashed
Pretender
Slightly Out of Reach
Oblivious
In Too Deep
Drained


Up to last night, I was still debating in my mind whether I would endorse this or MullMuzzler 2 as the best Mike Mangini full album before his stint with Dream Theater. I have decided that they are just different animals, which are both excellent in their own ways. While MullMuzzler 2 has better orchestration and other elements that I have come to expect from Mangini, Elements of Persuasion has more elements of surprise, with fills that come out of left field and just make me smile when I hear them. Elements of Persuasion has two of the best Mike Mangini studio performances. This album also gives me hope that Richard Chycki, if he is indeed working in the next Dream Theater album, would know how to capture Mike's drum sounds.

Drumming is excellent throughout the whole album but if I would choose highlights, these would be tops:

1. Drained - Mike had fun with his cymbals in this song. Like he's messing around but producing good results in the process.

2. Crucify - James LaBrie conspired with Mangini to do Count of Tuscany before Dream Theater even thought of the song.  Kidding aside, I have noted in earlier posts that Mangini's strength is more on orchestration and does not really put much of his creative energy on fills. But in this song, Mangini drum fills abound, and they are amazing. It's like those fills Mike does in his live sets, this time captured in the studio.

3. Alone - Sometimes, excellent drumming just comes out because the song is already in itself just excellent. What a beautiful song, would have been Top 6 DT song fo rme if this is a DT song. Mangini could not have drummed this any better. Sneaky drum fills. Solid and "danceable" rhythm. Fast bass and fast hands that are used at just the right moments. Orchestration. I wish there would be a song like this in the next Dream Theater album. This is perfect.


Coming next, Mangini's streak of amazing albums comes to an end with a tribute to one of his drumming idols.

[Bertielee]

EoP is my fave JLB solo album (SI being second). Everything's great on the album and the drumming is no exception (and Marco's guitar work!!!! )

B.Lee

[cramx3]

Its funny cause EoP was the only work of MM I had listened to before he joined DT, I had listened to the album many years before I knew he was the drummer and I always thought to myself when listening that the drumming really stood out.  I never dug to see who it was until MM was announced as the drummer and he had worked with JLB in the past... and then it all made sense. 

[erwinrafael]

Before my next update, some vids of MM showing some of his modifications of drumming in Metropolis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry76mQTj2Gk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1pptwl6TRs

Loved the second vid!

[Madman Shepherd]

EoP is awesome in every way.  Wish I had more to say but I gotta head out of town. 

[?]

EOP is musically pretty mediocre compared to Static Impulse and ImpRes, but I love Mangini's drumming on the album and the drum sound is great too. In addition to the songs erwinrafael mentioned I think Lost deserves to be brought up because of its cool groove.

[cramx3]

EOP is musically pretty mediocre compared to Static Impulse and ImpRes, but I love Mangini's drumming on the album and the drum sound is great too. In addition to the songs erwinrafael mentioned I think Lost deserves to be brought up because of its cool groove.

Lost is awesome, and I love the drum beat to that song.  It really stands out to me.

[erwinrafael]

Yep, the drum beat in Lost is very catchy. Mangini is excellent all around in this album.

Look what Mangini posted today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE0daOk0j1s

 

[MarkFitDT]

Yep, the drum beat in Lost is very catchy. Mangini is excellent all around in this album.

Look what Mangini posted today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE0daOk0j1s

 

Thanks for linking to these clips. Mangini is a Monster! We could do with a full show like this!!

[erwinrafael]

Thirteenth part

SUBDIVISIONS: A TRIBUTE TO RUSH by Various Artists

Tracks played in:

Distant Early Warning
Lakeside Park
Limelight
Subdivisions
Different Strings
Tom Sawyer
Bastille Day
A Farewell to Kings
The Spirit of Radio
Didacts and Narpets
2112 Overture - The Temples of Syrinx


When Mike Mangini discusses his influences, he usually mentions Neil Peart as one of the drummers whose every album he bought and learned to play all the songs. In this album, Mangini showed that he really learned how to play Neil Peart, from the distinctive evenly spaced hi-hat hits to the fills. Mangini's approach here is to stay really faithful to Peart's parts when the overall arrangement stays true to the original arrangement, and then show off his stuff when the arrangement changes. The way he drummed Tom Sawyer and The Spirit of Radio, for example, is so uncannily close to Peart's original. This album is one example of Mangini really putting in the effort to study the parts originally played by others, which is one of the reasons why he got the Dream Theater gig.

That said, my favorite drum parts in this album are those where Mangini managed to show off some of his Mangini-isms while also being a Peart-clone, and this three-song run in the first half demonstrates that.

1. Lakeside Park - the key to this song is to get the groove in the bass while the hi-hat plays like a drum machine metronome, and Mangini nailed it. The fills in the instrumental section are Mangini-esque. On a non-drum note, Sebastian Bach is amazing in this song.
 
2. Limelight - this is my favorite drumming in the album. Mangini got the trademark breaks, hi-hats, and rides of the song, while displaying his stuff in the other sections, like the one-stroke rolls and orchestration in the modified intro. And in yet another non-drum note, I did not know Kip Winger can sound this good.

3. Subdivisions - things got a little weird in the end, but the drumming is still very good overall. Mangini's work on the ride sources is perfect.

Bastille Day is also very good, and features the best vocals in the album by the late Jani Lane. But damn, Alex Skolnick ruined the song. This is a textbook definition of a lead guitar that lead to nowhere. 


Coming up, Mangini becomes a full-timer in Berklee, and his studio output takes a downward turn.

[erwinrafael]

Yep, the drum beat in Lost is very catchy. Mangini is excellent all around in this album.

Look what Mangini posted today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE0daOk0j1s

 

Thanks for linking to these clips. Mangini is a Monster! We could do with a full show like this!!

The way Mangini is making these songs look easy is 

Panic Attack

Constant Motion

The footwork is so precise, it's like listening to the studio version.

[MarkFitDT]

Yep, the drum beat in Lost is very catchy. Mangini is excellent all around in this album.

Look what Mangini posted today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE0daOk0j1s

 

Thanks for linking to these clips. Mangini is a Monster! We could do with a full show like this!!

The way Mangini is making these songs look easy is 

Panic Attack

Constant Motion

The footwork is so precise, it's like listening to the studio version.

wow, panic attack is stunning. 

[cramx3]

Yep, the drum beat in Lost is very catchy. Mangini is excellent all around in this album.

Look what Mangini posted today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE0daOk0j1s

 

Thanks for linking to these clips. Mangini is a Monster! We could do with a full show like this!!

The way Mangini is making these songs look easy is 

Panic Attack

Constant Motion

The footwork is so precise, it's like listening to the studio version.

wow, panic attack is stunning. 

Oh hell yea, those videos are pretty solid sound for the drums.  Really awesome.

[mikeyd23]

Sweet videos! MM sounds awesome and looks incredibly comfortable, probably the most comfortable I've seen him look with DT...

[wolfking]

This is an amazing tribute album, love it, very creative.

[?]

I listened to the YT links in the write-up, and I have to say the drumming (as the musicianship on the whole) is solid, but those added sections are hit-or-miss - mostly miss.

[bl5150]

I haven't heard this tribute , but that's no surprise as I'm not a big Rush fan.  I was surprised to see Jani Lane mentioned on a Rush tribute - he was an under rated songwriter and vocalist but this isn't where I would expect to see his name pop up.

[TAC]

wow, panic attack is stunning. 

Yeah no kidding!
Insane!

[erwinrafael]

I haven't heard this tribute , but that's no surprise as I'm not a big Rush fan.  I was surprised to see Jani Lane mentioned on a Rush tribute - he was an under rated songwriter and vocalist but this isn't where I would expect to see his name pop up.

And he sounded amazing in the record. I even prefer his vocal rendition of Bastille Day compared to Geddy Lee, but Skolnick really just messed up the song.

Sweet videos! MM sounds awesome and looks incredibly comfortable, probably the most comfortable I've seen him look with DT...

Yeah, he's finally owning the songs. See this other video:

The Spirit Carries On

Why did I select this mellow stuff? Because Mangini got some flak during the ADTOE tour for not drumming the song to make it his own. I think this performance shows that he is now owning the song.

[wolfking]

I love the interpretations and creative freedom on this album.  Such a fresh approach to your usual tribute album. 

[mikeyd23]

Yeah, he's finally owning the songs. See this other video:

The Spirit Carries On

Agreed, great rendition of the original drum part. He kept most of the grooves the same, a couple key fills the same and then added his own things in here and there. Good stuff! 

[erwinrafael]

Yeah, he's finally owning the songs. See this other video:

The Spirit Carries On

Agreed, great rendition of the original drum part. He kept most of the grooves the same, a couple key fills the same and then added his own things in here and there. Good stuff! 

I love how he played double bass. So Mangini to double bass in a ballad.