2015-16 NBA thread v. Changing of the guard

[TheOutlawXanadu]

What an amazing Game 7! I felt bad for the Warriors because they didn't play to their regular standard these last few games, but I think that was because:

1) The Cavs, and LeBron in particular, played great on both ends.

2) The Warriors had a lot of injuries.

3) The Draymond suspension will always be a bit of a controversial one.

I think that LeBron is now a clear-cut top five player ever. It would require more effort to argue otherwise than to argue him as high as even two or three. I think he's like T-4th in MVPs, T-2nd in Finals MVPs, 2nd in PER, 1st in Basketball Reference's advanced plus-minus and wins above replacement player metrics, and is on pace to also finish top three in All-NBA selections and career win shares. We're lucky to be able to watch the guy.

[Stadler]

I've been very critical of LeBron in the past - I thought the Miami Heat debacle was just that - and kind of - kind of - put that to rest when he came back to Cleveland.  I thought that was a class move in a career that was impressive but always seeming to lack the humility that the truly great ones had.  And sure enough he plays out of his tits and brings home the bacon.

So we had a family crisis and I didn't get to see the game, but tuned in to the immediate post game, and saw the interview between the horrible, boring, flat Doris Burke with Lebron.   Let me summarize - this not more than ten minutes after Kyrie Irving buried a monstrous three in a tie fucking game with less than a minute on the clock and three seconds on the shot clock:  "I, blah, blah, blah, I, I, I, blah, blah, blah, I blah, I blah, I blah, I, I, I, blah, blah, blah.  Me, I, I, Me, blah, blah, blah, I, me, mine, blah, blah, blah, I blah, me blah, mine blah.  I." 
   
No doubt, LeBron is a monster, and he has done things that no other player has (or at least a very elite few have) done, and to win down 3-1 to a very good team is a sheer feat of willpower.   But just when I want to love him and embrace him as a man among men, one of the greats all time in sports, there's the "I" problem.   
   
Derek Jeter, Joe Montana, Wayne Gretzky, or Michael Jordan would never have made that mistake.     

[KevShmev]

Sounds like you are hearing what you want to, since he gave mad props to Kyrie, JR Smith, their coaching staff, etc. He was gushing when talking about JR Smith in his press conference. But I get it, some of you will always find nits to pick with him.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Super happy for the city of Cleveland. What an awesome series.

and with that.... draft night is later this week. 

[Stadler]

Sounds like you are hearing what you want to, since he gave mad props to Kyrie, JR Smith, their coaching staff, etc. He was gushing when talking about JR Smith in his press conference. But I get it, some of you will always find nits to pick with him.

Kev, if he said that then props to him.  I'm not "looking" to hate, just the opposite.  It was just that one on-court interview with Doris Burke, but I give that credence, because it is pure and "in the moment".  It's where his thoughts were at the moment of truth. 

[bosk1]

Super happy for the city of Cleveland.

This.  Very cool for them, although I hated to see it come to them this way. 

As for LeBron, I find it hard to understand how anyone who is not a hometown fan could like him.  I have given him the benefit of the doubt SO many times over the years, and actively rooted for the guy to finally win his first title when he was in Miami.  So "looking for reasons" doesn't apply in the slightest.  He keeps ruining any ability to be liked, as far as I'm concerned.  But, hey, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter to him one lick whether he is ultimately "liked," so whatev'.

[King Postwhore]

LeBron deserves all the credit but damn,  this surprised me.

[black_biff_stadler]

Key teammates named Kevin:

Larry Bird: 1
Lebron James: 1

[black_biff_stadler]

But it's also inaccurate to compare them by age rather than seasons played since they didn't enter the NBA at nearly the same age. They both entered the NBA a month shy of their birthday since they both have December birthdays but Bird was approachin 23 whereas LBJ was approaching 19. Not saying it'll change anything but it makes it much more credible to compare equal bodies of work.

Edit: just realized this stat is specifically referring to them during the single season in which they were 30, not their career averages from their rookie seasons all the way through to age 30. This means we're comparing Bird's 8th season to LBJ's 12th and that was Bird's third best season scoring against LBJ's second worst. You could open a malt shop with the straws that pic is grasping at and, to be clear, I thoroughly love Larry Bird anyway.

[King Postwhore]

Key teammates named Kevin:

Larry Bird: 1
Lebron James: 1

The best stat ever. 

One Kevin had bolts in his neck though.

[TAC]

Key teammates named Chief:

Larry 1
Lebron 0

[black_biff_stadler]

Role-playing teammates named Booby:

Larry Bird: 0
Lebron James: 1

[King Postwhore]

Both played with a freckled African American.

Draw.

[KevShmev]

But it's also inaccurate to compare them by age rather than seasons played since they didn't enter the NBA at nearly the same age. They both entered the NBA a month shy of their birthday since they both have December birthdays but Bird was approachin 23 whereas LBJ was approaching 19. Not saying it'll change anything but it makes it much more credible to compare equal bodies of work.

Edit: just realized this stat is specifically referring to them during the single season in which they were 30, not their career averages from their rookie seasons all the way through to age 30. This means we're comparing Bird's 8th season to LBJ's 12th and that was Bird's third best season scoring against LBJ's second worst. You could open a malt shop with the straws that pic is grasping at and, to be clear, I thoroughly love Larry Bird anyway.

QFT.  Bird is one of my all-time favorite players, but yeah, let's be serious.

Sounds like you are hearing what you want to, since he gave mad props to Kyrie, JR Smith, their coaching staff, etc. He was gushing when talking about JR Smith in his press conference. But I get it, some of you will always find nits to pick with him.

Kev, if he said that then props to him.  I'm not "looking" to hate, just the opposite.  It was just that one on-court interview with Doris Burke, but I give that credence, because it is pure and "in the moment".  It's where his thoughts were at the moment of truth.

I went back and watched it.  The first question he was asked was, "What are you feeling right now?"  Of course he is going to answer with "I this" and "I that," unless he is supposed to get inside his teammates' heads and discuss how they felt as well.   This just feels like nitpicking for the sake of it.

[black_biff_stadler]

Alrighty. I went all in on my research and these are the results...

Here are where their respective 30-year old seasons' averages rank among all of their other personal seasons in their careers. This is comparing exactly 13 seasons for each, too, since they now have identical career lengths by seasons and this is only slightly skewed by the injury-shortened seasons toward the end of Bird's career where his games played by season were as follows (every other season he played at least 74 games):

88-89: 6
90-91: 60
91-92: 45


Points:

Bird 3rd
LBJ Tied 11th

Rebounds:

Bird 11th
LBJ 12th

Assists:

Bird 1st
LBJ 2nd

Field Goal Percentage:

Bird 2nd
LBJ 8th

PER:

Bird 3rd
LBJ 11th

Averaging out these ranks, it comes out like this:

Bird 4.0
LBJ 8.8

So, all total, this "info" graphic boils down to more or less comparing Bird's 4th best season to what would almost be Lebron's 9th best (or 5th worst depending on how you view it) even with LBJ having done this 12 years into his career against Bird's 8th.

While researching this, I couldn't help but notice how much better some of LBJ's stats were. Here is where Bird's best season averages for these five stats would rank if inserted into LBJ's stats:

Points: 3rd

Rebounds: 1st

Assists: 2nd

Field Goal Percentage: 4th

PER: 8th

I'm making this post not to say LBJ is definitively better than Bird because I consider them to be not that far apart overall but rather to point out what a completely shitty job of "research" the creator of that pic did.


Edit: I also forgot to mention that 30-year old Bird was playing on a team coming off a 67-15 season where they'd won their third title in six seasons and set a still-standing NBA record by going 40-1 at home and LBJ's 30-year old season involved him rejoining a Cavs team with a roster he'd never played with coming off a 33-49 season.

[Dream Team]

As a Steeler fan, I've always liked having the boot on Cleveland's throat - but must admit I'm happy they got off the schneid.

[Outcrier]

Blame my fellow countryman Anderson Varejao: Vice with Cavaliers against Golden State, now vice with Golden State against Cavaliers

[King Postwhore]

I do think LeBron has had a lesser cast than Bird.  For sure.