Rank Systematic Chaos from worst to best

[Train of Naught]

Hello fellow Systematic Chaos lovers/haters, I'm not sure if this has been done before, but I was inspired to discuss this while making my list of all DT studio tracks, because I literally have never seen two different people agree on the same opinion about this record, some love TMOLS, some think it's boring, some say The Dark Eternal Night is the worst track they have ever written, some say it's one of their best metal tracks, and so on..
Let me start off by stating my own opinion (I rank ITPoE as one track, but you may rate them separately if you want to):

7. Repentance: Portnoy called it a breather between all the heavy AA suite tracks, as a standalone track I think it goes on for way too long, I liked the first 2-3 minutes but it went downhill from there, I like it better when I listen to the entire suite.

6. Forsaken: Simple but awesome riff, same goes for the keyboard intro, this was at one time in my top three SC tracks, but because of how standard its structure is, it got less appealing to me after a while.

5. The Dark Eternal Night: Killer song, I love everything start to finish, except for thedreadful backing vocals, it's such a shame, because it could've been one of my favorites easily. Also, this instrumental section is possibly one of the most complex in their discography.

4. Prophets of War: Along with TMOLS, this was the last song from the album that I discovered, and I never appreciated either of them, until I gave them another try. For this song, the main riff is what got me into it, and made the vocals, which I have finally come to appreciate, worth while.

3. Constant Motion: Probably the most popular song from SC among the casual Dream Theater fans, up there with things like OtBoA, a very diverse song, with a great intro, simple but epic pre-chorus, and of course, we got to experience the follow-up of Train of Thoughts LaBrie rap, this time featuring my main man Mr. Mike Portnoy.

2. The Ministry of Lost Souls: Starting off as my least favorite Systematic Chaos track, everything about this is great, from a strong start, to a beautiful soft main guitar riff, some people say the lyrics are cheesy, I think it is an amazing story, but I've got to agree the story progresses pretty slowly and could've been made a lot shorter. But that would've meant less TMOLS, so I'm glad it turned out like this.

1. In the Presence of Enemies: I see a lot of people who couldn't care less if part 2 was completely cut off, but IMO part 2 is better than part 1, like it or not. Althought pt. 1 is amazing, pt. 2 immediately brings this very dark/haunting vibe along with it, and the vocals starting with "angels fall" are probably my favorite off the entire record, not to mention the countless instrumental sections it contains.


I'm excited to see your opinions, don't care if you think it's the worst album Dream Theater has ever brought out or the best, that's pretty much the reason I made this thread.

[zecawolf]

Repentance

Prophets of War

Constant Motion

Forsaken

The Dark Eternal Night (the problem with this is the INSANELY LOUD kick drum)

ITPOE part 1

The Ministry of Lost Souls

ITPOE part 2

[Randaran]

7. Prophets of War - I actually like most of the song, but the lyrics and MP's rap section bring it down to one of my bottom 5 DT songs

6. Constant Motion - It has an excellent JP solo, and some cool riffs, but MP's vocals are rather hit or miss.

5. Repentance - Everything up to JP's solo is really good. Everything after it is still good, but goes on for too long. Too repetitive to be engaging

4. Forsaken - Short and sweet. Not much of note, but not much to dislike either.

3. In the Presence of Enemies - Heretic and Slaughter of the Damned are the best parts. Everything else is at least pretty good as well. Top 25

2. The Ministry of Lost Souls - I like everything about this, especially the instrumental section and outro. Top 15

1. The Dark Eternal Night - I love every moment of this song, from the intro to silly verses, catchy chorus, godly instrumental section, and crushing outro. Top 10

[CharlesPL]

Hater here

8-5 Itpoe 2, TMOLS, dark, forsaken

4. PoW

3. Repentance
2. CM
1. ItPoE pt.1

[bosk1]

7.  Prophets of War - One of my least favorite songs in the entire discography and one of only a VERY small number of songs from DT that I genuinely dislike.  The chorus riff is pretty tasty, but otherwise, I just do not care for this song at all.

6.  The Ministry of Lost Souls - Don't care for it.  I HATE to classify any song as "generic DT," but that's what this one feels like.  While it does a lot of the things that I like about DT, I don't connect with it at all.

5.  Repentence - Brilliant idea.  But just doesn't have the repeated listening value.  I get what they were going for, and I like it.  It just doesn't do it for me.  This is one of the very few albums where I skip tracks.  The first two listed above always get skipped.  With Repentence, it just depends on my mood.

4.  The Dark Eternal Night - Great song.  Although I get why the instrumental section is so campy sounding, and I think it fits the song and is a neat contrast, that is the only thing that keeps this from being one of the top 3 songs on the album.

3.  Constant Motion - This is where it gets difficult to rank these songs, because the remaining 3 are REALLY good.  Not only would I put them in the upper echelon of songs from this album, but I would also put them in the upper echelon of DT songs in general.  I like pretty much everything about this song.  The drumming is absolutely sick and takes center stage.  If I had to nitpick (and I do when trying to figure out how to rank the remaining 3 songs against each other), I will just say that the opening riff sounds a bit weak with the guitar just by itself.  Once the song gets going, no problem at all.

2.  Forsaken - Simple, yet effective.  Great song.

1.  ITPOE - Yeah, it is trendy to rank the epics as the best.  There are parts of this that are maybe not as good as the songs I ranked below.  But, to me, unless I actively dislike something in a song, it doesn't necessarily "drag the song down."  All told, a longer song just means more quality minutes of stuff I like than a shorter song, so longer will get the nod if there are lots of good parts.  That is how this one goes.  If we broke it up into parts, pt. 2 would be ranked #4 and pt. 1 would be ranked #1 (just barely).  But it would still be a VERY tight race between 1-4.

[OpenYourEyes311]

8. Ministry of Lost Souls
7. Repentance
6. Constant Motion
5. In the Presence of Enemies Part II
4. The Dark Eternal Night
3. Prophets of War
2. In the Presence of Enemies Part I
1. Forsaken

[Dream Team]

8. The Dark Eternal Night
7. Prophets of War
6. ITPoE 2
5. Forsaken
4. The Ministry of Lost Souls
3. ITPoE 1
2. Repentance
1. Constant Motion (that 2nd verse is especially killer  . Drumming goes without saying  )

[The Letter M]

7. Forsaken
6. Prophets Of War
5. Constant Motion
4. The Dark Eternal Night
3. Repentance
2. The Ministry Of Lost Souls
1. In The Presence Of Enemies

-Marc.

[As I Am]

8. Repentance
7. Forsaken
6. Ministry of Lost Souls
5. Constant Motion
4. Prophets of War
3. The Dark Eternal Night
2. In the Presence of Enemies Part II
1. In the Presence of Enemies Part I

[TheCountOfNYC]

7: The Dark Eternal Night
6: Prophets of War
5: Repentance
4: Forsaken
3: The Ministry of Lost Souls
2: In the Presence of Enemies
1: Constant Motion

[TAC]

7. Repentance
6. Constant Motion
5. Forsaken
4. Prophets Of War
3. The Ministry Of Lost Souls
2. The Dark Eternal Night
1. In The Presence Of Enemies

[wasteland]

7. Constant Motion
6. The Ministry Of Lost Souls
5. Prophets Of War
4. Repentance
3. In The Presence Of The Enemies
2. Forsaken
1. The Dark Eternal Night

[ThatOneGuy2112]

7. Prophets of War: There's just not a lot to like about this song aside from the chorus. Doesn't do it for me at all, and I'd consider it one of my least favorite songs in their entire catalog.

6. The Dark Eternal Night: Not nearly as bad as some make it out to be. It's not that great either, as it does drag after a while for me and becomes a bit monotonous/redundant, but it has some nice riffs and it's got a cool solo. Lyrics are a little bit of a....miss for me on this one though.

5. Forsaken: Nice little song. Doesn't really leave all too much of any sort of impression whenever I get done with it though. It's just kind of "there". There's surely some nice riffs in there.

4. Repentance: Also not as bad as people say. It has a really great, drooping bass line and appeals to a more somber atmosphere. My complaint is that it goes on for too long.

3. Constant Motion: Great riffs, great solos. It's energetic and punchy and a good listen.

2. The Ministry of Lost Souls: Emotional and even captivating at times. What really ruins it for me is the instrumental section that breaks the mold far too harshly. It could have been done to supplement the song rather than detract from it, too, so it feels like such a lost opportunity. Even so, the last few minutes till the ending is really great.

1. In the Presence of Enemies: Don't even care if it's the album epic. If it's the best song, then it's the best song. It by far has the best highs on SC, with heavy, crushing instrumentation and memorable riffs and solos. Really does feel "epic" in the truest sense of the word. It might be my least favorite DT epic, but it's still pretty good.

[Voices]

7 - Constant Motion: I don't like the backing vocals, the "rap", the straight forward structure and the lyrics. One of my least favorites from their catalogue. 

6 - Prophets Of War: I like the song, but the 'disco' vibe is annoying IMO. If they tried something more like a cinematic stuff into those riffs, it would raise the song.

5 - Repentance: Nice ballad, beautifull melody and vibe. But as I told before in another topic, I don't like the "speeches" about personal deceptions. Would've been better if there was a keyboard or piano solo instead, or even if the song was shorter.

4 - The Dark Eternal Night: Smashing riff from JP. This song has another thing that I like about DT, specially in the instrumental section: They throw some riffs and harmonies that sounds kinda funny and chaotic at the same time. That is pretty amazing and really raises the song. My problem with it, again: The backing vocals.

3 - The Ministry Of Lost Souls: The only problem in this song is the fade out. The vibe is pretty deep and sad in the begining, and the song grows into an epic style. But and epic, needs to end properly. Not with a damn fade out. That is the only thing that bothers me in that song, because the rest is really cool.

2 - In The Presence Of Enemies I: I love that song. Best way to start the album. I love the instrumental intro, really gets you excited about what comes next. And about what's next, the song keeps growing and throwing the themes that guide the history behind the instruments. And suddenly, the song ends in a darker mood, leading to...

1 - In The Presence Of Enemies II: I love that song [2]. Best way to end the album. The most amazing thing about that one IMO, is the dark and scary mood. I really feel like diving into the story and what happens with the character. I have to say that I love the story behind the song. I don't understand all the hatred for this song, because I love it, and for me this is the best one of this record.

[Crow]

7. TDEN - bottom 5 DT
6. Forsaken - Utterly... there.
5. PoW - It's okay I guess, I like the synths and some of the riffs
4. ITPOE - A lot of good stuff, a lot of mediocre/bad stuff, and way too bloated for me to ever want to listen to anymore
3. Constant Motion - Uptempo and with a good energy throughout
2. TMOLS - Great song, instrumental section is just a bit out of place/overly long.
1. Repentance - Disgustingly underrated

TMOLS and Repentance are the only two in my top 50 tho

[Madman Shepherd]

An album like this I can't rate like that.  I love all of the songs (the only DT album other than ADTOE I can say that about). 

[zecawolf]

I was beginning to think that I was the only one who loves this album.

[KevShmev]

8. Constant Motion - despite a good riff and great guitar solo, this is one of the two or three worst DT songs ever.  Worst vocal melodies of their career.

7. Forsaken - Not a bad song, but the chorus just lacks the oomph it needed.  Waste of a nice piano melody and another great JP solo.

6. Prophets of War - Not as awful as many say, but not that good either. 

5. In the Presence of Enemies II - Has some good stuff in there somewhere, but not enough to ever warrant me dedicating 15 minutes to it anymore. 

4. The Ministry of Lost Souls - So many great parts in this, but as a whole, it is somewhat lacking. The first half drags too much, and the instrumental section is too out of place. The ending is dynamite, regardless.

3. Repentance - Much better than most say.

2. The Dark Eternal Night - A big dumb metal song that works.  It's a fun tune.

1. In the Presence of Enemies Part 1 - Very good tune on its own.  It's the least best "Best song from a DT studio album." 

[jammindude]

7. Prophets of War

6. Forsaken

5. Repentance

4. In the Presence of Enemies

3. Constant Motion

2. Ministry of Lost Souls

1. The Dark Eternal Night

That being said, TDEN is really the only song I like.   All six of the rest generally do nothing for me.

[Laughingplace56]

8. Prophets of War- like it, but it's pretty forgettable. I've only listened to it a couple dozen times or so and haven't bothered with it in years.

7. Repentance- I like the bass line, but it's just mind numbingly long and boring. I think I've listened to the entire song straight twice.

6. In the Presence of Enemies, pt 2- I really enjoy this part, but it's too long and brings down pt. 1 a bit.

5. Forsaken- decent ballad. Nothing special tho.

4. The Dark Eternal Night- Really fun riff, awesome instrumental section, killer outro, especially with JR's soloing live.

3. Constant Motion- Awesome single style song, with one of my favorite instrumental sections from DT.

2. The Ministry of Lost Souls- sure, it's a little long, but it's definitely a great song overall. Instrumental section is godly, and the melody is gorgeous.

1. In the Presence of Enemies, pt.1- GREAT way to open the album, and I love the feel of this song to death.


Overall, SC's probably my least favorite album by them, but overall I still enjoy it greatly. I just don't hate anything DT.

[BlobVanDam]

1. The Dark Eternal Night - An amazing metal track with one of DT's most well thought out instrumental sections, killer riffing, and is a load of fun.
2. Constant Motion - Hugely underrated metal track, with a cool chorus and a great instrumental section (I love JR's solo).
3. In The Presence Of The Enemies - Despite some weaker sections in part 2, it has so many amazing sections, and still gives me chills once it hits the big moog reprisal at the end. And the dark master chorus is badass.

4. Forsaken - A well written shorter song with nice harmonies and a blistering solo.
5. Repentance - A great song that goes on for a few minutes too long.
6. The Ministry Of Lost Souls - So many gorgeous sections, it's just watered down by an average instrumental section (that still has an awesome JP solo).
7. Prophets Of War - I still enjoy this song, but it's such a weird mix of elements that I mostly enjoy it on a camp level. I dig that they were still trying new things though.

[krands85]

My ranking is very similar to that of the OP. The only change I'd make is dropping PoW down a couple of places.

7. Repentance: This has just never been my cup of tea. One of my least favourite DT songs. Nice solo by JP though.
6. Prophets of War: I've never felt this is as bad as many people make out and I actually think it's got some quite cool sections, but still a fairly weak song by DT standards.
5. Forsaken: Similar to the OP - this used to be one of my favourite tracks from the album. SC was my first new DT release as a fan of the band and I remember playing Forsaken over and over again. But over time it's effects have waned and I tend to prefer the bands more 'complex' tracks now I suppose. Still enjoy it though.
4. The Dark Eternal Night: A bit silly and drags on towards the end, but good fun and enjoyable. Could have been better with some trimming I think. Worked well live though.
3. Constant Motion: Great, high energy metal track. I always enjoy listening to this one, especially JPs solo 
2. The Ministry of Lost Souls: One of DT's most underrated tracks, though I'm noticing more people saying they enjoy it recently. I've always loved it, nice contrast of styles between the first and second halves, amazing instrumental section - I guess it has a sort of Endless Sacrifice structure to it, a song that I also adore.
1. In the Presence of Enemies: Easily a top 10 DT track, but I'm a sucker for the epics. Some incredible moments among both parts and I don't have any issues with sections some people don't like. I don't seem to listen to it as much as I used to though for some reason.

[Zydar]

Best to worst instead:

1. In The Presence Of Enemies
2. The Dark Eternal Night
3. Forsaken
4. Constant Motion
5. Prophets Of War




6. Repentance


7. The Ministry Of Lost Souls

[YtseJamittaja]

My ranking is very similar to that of the OP. The only change I'd make is dropping PoW down a couple of places.

7. Repentance: This has just never been my cup of tea. One of my least favourite DT songs. Nice solo by JP though.
6. Prophets of War: I've never felt this is as bad as many people make out and I actually think it's got some quite cool sections, but still a fairly weak song by DT standards.
5. Forsaken: Similar to the OP - this used to be one of my favourite tracks from the album. SC was my first new DT release as a fan of the band and I remember playing Forsaken over and over again. But over time it's effects have waned and I tend to prefer the bands more 'complex' tracks now I suppose. Still enjoy it though.
4. The Dark Eternal Night: A bit silly and drags on towards the end, but good fun and enjoyable. Could have been better with some trimming I think. Worked well live though.
3. Constant Motion: Great, high energy metal track. I always enjoy listening to this one, especially JPs solo 
2. The Ministry of Lost Souls: One of DT's most underrated tracks, though I'm noticing more people saying they enjoy it recently. I've always loved it, nice contrast of styles between the first and second halves, amazing instrumental section - I guess it has a sort of Endless Sacrifice structure to it, a song that I also adore.
1. In the Presence of Enemies: Easily a top 10 DT track, but I'm a sucker for the epics. Some incredible moments among both parts and I don't have any issues with sections some people don't like. I don't seem to listen to it as much as I used to though for some reason.

Really well said. 

[hefdaddy42]

8. Prophets of War

7. Constant Motion


6. Forsaken
5. TMOLS
4. Repentance

3. ITPOE Pt. 2
2. The Dark Eternal Night



1. ITPOE Pt. 1

[BlackInk]

7. Constant Motion
Rather fun song, energetic, and with an especially cool solo from JP. But other than that it's a pretty generic metal song.

6. The Dark Eternal Night
Very silly, but I suppose that's part of its charm. Main riff is pretty singable, funny, and catchy, with a cool chorus and a really really fun instrumental section. Not to mention the closing riff. Heavy stuff.

5. Prophets of War
This one seems to be one of the most disliked DT songs ever. I don't really get why, it's a cool little track, with some fun new (for DT) ideas thrown in. And the crowd chant is pretty cool.

4. Forsaken
One of my favorite DT singles. Very catchy, cool rhythms, especially during the verses. "Out of an ivory mist, I felt a stinging kiss, and saw a crimson stain on her lips" is an awesome line even if I think singing about vampires is a bit silly.

3. Repentance
Always liked this one. I've never thought the ending goes on for too long, I think it all fits very well. The solo is amazing, the verses are really cool, and the spoken words section is a very interesting idea.

2. The Ministry of Lost Souls
Now here's an outro I think goes on for too long, but it doesn't really take away from the song as a whole for me. I've never had a problem with the instrumental section, which many seems to have, and I love the transition they made between the parts before leading into it.

1. In the Presence of Enemies
One of my favorite DT songs ever, along with both the first DT song I ever heard and the first progressive metal song I ever heard. It's basically what introduced me to the genre and spawned my interest in music beyond just as a casual listener. So many awesome moments throughout this epic.

[Krissi91]

7. Repentance
6. Prophets of War
5. Constant Motion
4. Forsaken
3. The Dark Eternal Night

2. The Ministry of Lost Souls
1. In the Presence of Enemies

Probably my least favorite album as a whole, but I really love TMoLS and ItPoE.

[jakepriest]

7. The Ministry of Lost Souls
6. Prophets of War
5. Forsaken


4. The Dark Eternal Nights
3. Constant Motion


2. Repentance



1. In The Presence of Enemies

[comment]

7.  Constant Motion
6.  The Ministry of Lost Souls
5.  Forsaken
4.  Repentance
3.  Prophets Of War
2.  The Dark Eternal Night
1.  In The Presence Of Enemies

This album I listen to least, it has its moments though.  I find I play The Dark Eternal Night the most and ffwd to the jam at the end.   . Also, ITPOE 1s introduction is awesomeness.  Lately, I've been appreciating Prophets of War for some reason, it used to be my least favorite.

After reading some of these write ups I'm going to listen to Constant Motion again with a fresh perspective.

[Rattlehead]

7. Forsaken
6. Constant Motion
5. Prophets Of War
4. The Dark Eternal Night
3. Repentance
2. In The Presence Of Enemies
1. The Ministry Of Lost Souls

[ToT-147]

Lover here..

8- Prophets of War: Strange to be DT, and not so good, though I always enjoy the section that starts with "The only thing that I believe...".. 

7- Forsaken: Nice song.. Good riff, good verses (the second is great, but the first one has its own thing -I LOVE how you can hear so clear all the five guys doing their thing-) and average chorus.. Short but great solo.. 

6- The Dark Eternal Night: I used to hate the MP vocals, but now I kind of got used to them (npi).. BUT dat instrumental just put this song among the very few with excellent instrumental parts.. In fact, those vocals used to keep me from this insane beautiful section.. Oh, and I was forgetting the riffs.. Glorious moment at the end of the song.. 

5- In the Presence of Enemies pt 1: Yeah, great song indeed.. Especially Prelude I must say, but vocal parts on Resurrection are good enough to makes me prefer this one over TDEN.. 

4- Repentance: I don't like very much the beginning of the song, but after the MP line it gets more and more awesome.. I got to mention THAT epic guitar solo.. It's among JP's best.. Then, with Restitution, the song enters in a unique section in DT history, which, despite its nature, it never bores me (I even like how the final voices homogenizes with the background music)..

3- Constant Motion:

the opening riff sounds a bit weak with the guitar just by itself.  Once the song gets going, no problem at all.

I think that the guitar being by itself at the beginning is necessary to give that impact when the rest of the band kicks off.. Apart from that, I got nothing to say that it hasn't been already said about this short little masterpiece.. I'll just emphasize the force and awesomeness of the part at 4:04.. That drumming..  (yep, "pun" INTENDED this time)

2- In the Presence of Enemies pt 2: Heretic is perfect.. The darkness, the brilliance, the unpredictable on it.. I listen it today and it still keeps its freshness.. The Slaughter... a "minimalist" (minimalist for DT) metal moment that at that point it fits the structure of the song perfectly, and it has one of DT's more deep, strong and astonishing section.. "Through a veil of madness..." it's what it says.. Then, a DT SC common instrumental with The Reckoning, having really great moments.. And finally, Salvation, a nice ending to a truely masterpiece.. Those freaking melodies!.. 

1- The Ministry of Lost Souls: It seems that I'm the only one to classify TMoLS as the best song on this album (edit: I was).. This is definitely a grower, but it never was a bad song for me.. I used to like it, now I love it.. The melodies, the lyrics, all of it is just outstanding and, against this:

the instrumental section is too out of place.

I think is not.. Or, to put it in another -and paradoxically- way, I think is not out of place because it is.. It fits completely to the song for the unexpected and sudden it is.. Besides that, the entire section it's great, especially the final unison (glorious moment), but I love the whole song, since the very beginning.. Aside the intro, starting with the JP's arpeggio at 0:51, and then the verses, choruses and the memorable outro... It just transports me to another place I can't describe with mere words.. 

A great album, underrated from my point of view.. I think it's the last album in which DT has experiment.. I want some of that spirit on the next album, I'm pretty sure they still can..

And another thing: they're eight songs, not seven..

[zecawolf]

I just didn't rate TMOLS as the best due to the EXTREME AWESOMENESS of ITPOE part 2

[BlackInk]

And another thing: they're eight songs, not seven..

I disagree. I've always counted ItPoE as one. I've edited them together and never listen to them seperately any longer. Additionally, the band wrote it as one song.

[ToT-147]

And another thing: they're eight songs, not seven..

I disagree. I've always counted ItPoE as one. I've edited them together and never listen to them seperately any longer. Additionally, the band wrote it as one song.

They ARE 8 separate songs.. If you edited ItPoE 1 and 2 together, that's you (well, you and many others, I know).. And yes, the band wrote, at first, ITPoE as a stand alone song, but then they've decided to divide it into two.. So they're two songs.. Just like AMBI is not one song but three, even if the band wrote it as one longer song at first..

It can be considered correctly as a Suite.. But not as ONE song..

[jakepriest]

Just the fact that it was written, recorded and played live makes as one song makes it so. In The Presence of Enemies has no characteristics of a suite.