Author Topic: Virtual Reality  (Read 12922 times)

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Offline kaos2900

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2016, 06:30:17 AM »
Overuse of VR - out of touch with reality- is a real risk.

Take a look around now...people are already out of touch with reality with the technology available today. Easily 7/10 people you pass in public either have their head buried in their phone, headphones on, or both of those...and if they don't wait about thirty seconds and they will.

I'm sure the games that VR will bring will be amazing and being in the medical field I've seen first hand what some of this technology can do for healthcare.....but my opinion is For any of the "good" that VR can bring to humanity it will have a more powerful negative effect on us. I'm not a fan of it at all.

I agree, this will not be helpful to mass society, though I think it's going to take a decade or so for the technology to really make an impact. The headsets are bulky and expensive. Until the technology advances it won't be an every household thing. Once we get to holodecks, then the world will grind to a halt.

Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2016, 12:47:56 AM »
As someone that's gonna get VR as soon as they drop in price I do worry about the lack of research on the long term impact on wearing a screen close to your face. I sure as hell are gonna use a timer set on an hour or something because I imagine the hook factor will try to suck your soul from you.

Despite that though i'm excited for VR and not only what I could do with it but also what other use than entertainment it will have an impact on.

« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 02:04:17 AM by MrBoom_shack-a-lack »
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2016, 01:04:41 AM »
I don't think having the screens close to your face will be a big issue, because the focal point of your eyes isn't at the fixed distance of the screens, it should match reality where the focal point is constanty changing, and unlike 3D movies, the focal point should be the same as the focal depth because it more closely mimics human vision. This should eliminate a lot of the strain issues associated with traditional 2D and 3D screens.

There are still issues with extended use of VR, including motion sickness, and it's still a relatively new technology, so they'll probably still recommend not using it for more than an hour or two at a time, max.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2016, 06:03:08 AM »
Guys I need to talk myself out of getting an Oculus or Vive. I'm forcing myself to at least wait and get some decent reviews and see what games are like for each.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2016, 06:14:15 AM »
I managed to talk myself out of getting one yet based on cost. :lol
On top of the $1000+ for the headsets themselves (in Australian dollars), the recommended minimum graphics card will set me back $500-$1000 depending on which one I go for, plus possibly a new PSU for it to sap dry (my current one would probably be fine, but I don't take any risks on my machine).
Which adds up to a shitload of cash for a toy I want to play around with as a hobby, especially after already spending $1600 on my new PC monitor just a couple of months ago. I might wait until later in the year and reevaluate.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2016, 06:21:07 AM »
My plan is to wait until later in the summer. I'm going to be so busy until June that I won't even have time to play.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2016, 06:26:38 AM »
Im in no rush, first wave of new products are often buggy and probably won't have enough games/software to make the purchase worth it.  There is no practical reason to buy one just yet, at least for me. 

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2016, 06:29:57 AM »
Im in no rush, first wave of new products are often buggy and probably won't have enough games/software to make the purchase worth it.  There is no practical reason to buy one just yet, at least for me. 

Also this is the first generation of VR games, and a lot of interaction/UI issues are still being worked on, so I think it will be a while before we start seeing a bit more standardization and games successfully created for VR as developers feel out what works for most people, and what doesn't.
There are a lot of promising fun games currently in development though, so I think it will progress a ton over the next year.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2016, 06:38:18 AM »
Definitely, this is something I find cool and interesting, but not a serious consideration for me for at least a year, likely longer.

I do plan on upgrading my video card at some point though, Im guessing my GTX 770 might not be good enough, but I'm interesting in a GTX 1080 whenever that gets released as I;ve been eyeing that as my upgrade path, 460->770->1080

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2016, 06:44:40 AM »
Definitely, this is something I find cool and interesting, but not a serious consideration for me for at least a year, likely longer.

I do plan on upgrading my video card at some point though, Im guessing my GTX 770 might not be good enough, but I'm interesting in a GTX 1080 whenever that gets released as I;ve been eyeing that as my upgrade path, 460->770->1080

The minimum recommended for the Rift is the GTX 970 as a baseline for developers throughout the life of the Rift 1. I haven't seen the recommended PC specs for the Vive, but I recall the screen is the same res, and all of the other specs are similar, so I'd expect roughly the same baseline there. When you consider the resolution of the screen plus the necessary 90fps to maintain presence, it will require a good card to sustain that.
My card is roughly the equivalent of a GT 430 (it's actually a Quadro workstation card), so I have absolutely no hope in hell of using that with VR. :lol
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #45 on: March 02, 2016, 06:45:38 AM »
I have an R9 290x but it's getting soon to upgrade for me so I think I may be jumping the the ati ship and getting my first nVidia card in years.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #46 on: March 02, 2016, 06:52:31 AM »
I have an R9 290x but it's getting soon to upgrade for me so I think I may be jumping the the ati ship and getting my first nVidia card in years.

The 290 is actually the minimum recommended card for the ATIs, so you'd be fine there either way. If you do plan to upgrade I think you'd be best to switch to nVidia to get a worthwhile increase in performance.
While I have no bias, I've always had nVidia. They have better compatibility with the 3D work I do, and I'm just used to their driver features now. I think nVidia is the better choice overall for the high end at the moment.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #47 on: March 02, 2016, 07:20:36 AM »
I'm an Intel guy.

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #48 on: March 02, 2016, 08:09:18 AM »
I have an R9 290x but it's getting soon to upgrade for me so I think I may be jumping the the ati ship and getting my first nVidia card in years.

The 290 is actually the minimum recommended card for the ATIs, so you'd be fine there either way. If you do plan to upgrade I think you'd be best to switch to nVidia to get a worthwhile increase in performance.
While I have no bias, I've always had nVidia. They have better compatibility with the 3D work I do, and I'm just used to their driver features now. I think nVidia is the better choice overall for the high end at the moment.

Yea I know, as silly as it sounds I remember getting burned badly on a few gefore 3 cards I had which led me to ati and I've been using ati ever since. I'll give nvidia a shot again. That 980ti is one hell of a beast.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #49 on: March 02, 2016, 08:14:33 AM »
Never had any problems with nVidia myself in the past 15 years I've been using them. But I've been burned by bad parts in the past, and been wary in future, so I get it.
It might have been a bad period for those cards, or maybe something about your particular setup that didn't like them. I know someone who had nothing but problems with their Geforce (can't remember the era/card), I think largely because their computer case had insufficient cooling. The thing looked ungodly, with metal tubes and fins hanging out the back for two slots. He didn't learn his lesson though, and got the same card again, and then that one died too. I think eventually he just handed the entire computer over to the shop to sort out.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #50 on: March 02, 2016, 08:22:57 AM »
I save all my working video cards simply because I just can't get rid of them. I even have a voodoo 3 hanging around here somewhere. Anyway when I got the 290x it was massive, I mean it's a beast of a card. I have the same case you have (may have had, I bought it a few years back because you said you liked it) and I had to cut into one of the hard drive bays because the card extended out so much.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #51 on: March 02, 2016, 08:28:46 AM »
I save all my working video cards simply because I just can't get rid of them. I even have a voodoo 3 hanging around here somewhere. Anyway when I got the 290x it was massive, I mean it's a beast of a card. I have the same case you have (may have had, I bought it a few years back because you said you liked it) and I had to cut into one of the hard drive bays because the card extended out so much.

 :lol

Once I get a new upgraded part for my PC, the old goes on Ebay to help pay off the cost of the new.  It's the reason why I keep my boxes for the parts too. 

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #52 on: March 02, 2016, 08:31:43 AM »
I save all my working video cards simply because I just can't get rid of them. I even have a voodoo 3 hanging around here somewhere. Anyway when I got the 290x it was massive, I mean it's a beast of a card. I have the same case you have (may have had, I bought it a few years back because you said you liked it) and I had to cut into one of the hard drive bays because the card extended out so much.

Still have the same case, and it's not small, so that must have been a monstrous card! I don't want a card that big. Taking up the space of two PCIe slots is already beyond the limits of what I'd ever want, but it looks like I'd have to accept it for any card suitable for VR. It would probably get in the way of my sound card, which has already had some issues with overheating in the past even in the current config. I have a large motherboard, but I think it would be a squeeze.

Most of my old cards have ended up as donors in various computers around the house, and probably thrown out. The only one I can account for is my previous card (Geforce 8600 something), which didn't even need a fan, just a neat heatsink, and wasn't a cumbersome size either.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #53 on: March 02, 2016, 10:52:53 AM »
I'll find a pic when I get a chance blob. My brother was there when I got the card. I opened the box and he looks at me and says "That's not going to fit" I look at him and give him a "What do you know" look. Turns out he was right. Half an inch too long and it's not thin enough to just slip into one of the card drive bays. That sad it's a beast of a card. 

Offline Cable

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2016, 11:20:18 AM »
For those hung up on graphics, it's mostly a non-issue to me at least. When I used my friends Oculus devkit2, I didn't care about how good Half-Life2 looked, or any modern graphic game. My biggest enjoyment was a demo that had the surroundings change as you looked around. That experience, and as others have mentioned as being able to go to a distant location, is the true greatness of this to me. It could be so useful for people that cannot afford a real vacation, but can utilize a programmed one. Playing a FPS that clearly was meant for a controller (HL-2, Metroid Prime) was disoriented as heck. I feel the controller should eventually be phased out, and natural movement when possible is the true solution to disorientation. Some will still be there for people though regardless, and I am no exception.


Overuse of VR - out of touch with reality- is a real risk.

Take a look around now...people are already out of touch with reality with the technology available today. Easily 7/10 people you pass in public either have their head buried in their phone, headphones on, or both of those...and if they don't wait about thirty seconds and they will.

I'm sure the games that VR will bring will be amazing and being in the medical field I've seen first hand what some of this technology can do for healthcare.....but my opinion is For any of the "good" that VR can bring to humanity it will have a more powerful negative effect on us. I'm not a fan of it at all.

I agree, this will not be helpful to mass society, though I think it's going to take a decade or so for the technology to really make an impact. The headsets are bulky and expensive. Until the technology advances it won't be an every household thing. Once we get to holodecks, then the world will grind to a halt.


But it is more than just that. You are talking social avoidance, which is part of this. VR also though has the risk of making people loose touch with reality and daily tasks, beyond just social interactions. People will avoid reality for their virtual reality, because they can control it fully. I cannot perform my menial job, and being supervised- so I will be my own virtual boss that owns space ships. I'm broke- well, I am a billionaire in my VR. I want to kill people, but know I cannot- I will take out hundreds of people daily in my VR. That goes beyond social interactions and the avoidance of others, and goes into re-programming someone's daily living. Especially if they stop keeping up with their daily responsibilities.

I'm also thinking the movie Inception here, where the people in the chemist's place spend most of the day in the dream state because it is better. So VR will be a whole new addiction, one that is much more potent than phone and video game addiction. People may not be able to function in the real world, because their virtual world is so much better.

As a concrete, current example: look no further from those that suffer from daily out of touch with reality- people with Schizophrenia spectrum disorders. Depending on the severity, they have to use techniques to re-ground them to reality. I see a similar risk for excessive VR users.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2016, 11:31:57 AM »
We will see people never leave their houses once VR becomes mainstream. Just look at what Second Life and WoW managed to do.

Kind of relevant... Anyone ever read Ready Player One?

Offline cramx3

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2016, 11:42:40 AM »
While reading CableX's response, WoW immedaitely popped into my mind.  That's just one game in one genre and it got people hooked to the point that some actually died from exhaustion of the non stop playing.

In a weird creepy way, VR will kill people.  Some people will get sucked in so bad to the fake world that they can even more "live in" and lose touch with the real world.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #57 on: March 02, 2016, 09:48:48 PM »
Certain kinds of people will always latch onto an escape. If not VR, then WoW, if not WoW, then playing bingo with old people or something. VR will just be the next in a long line of scapegoats for people's underlying problems.

Is anyone else reminded of the Sliders episode "Virtual Slide"? :blob: Just me? Ok.
Anyway, in that episode everyone is hooked on VR and is living a perfect life in VR so their mundane jobs seem better. There's a guy who's repainting a wall, but in his VR world he's painting an artwork. There's no real point to this story except that scifi is always ahead of you. :P
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 09:53:59 PM by BlobVanDam »
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Chino

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2016, 11:43:53 AM »

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #59 on: March 03, 2016, 06:55:33 PM »
Certain kinds of people will always latch onto an escape. If not VR, then WoW, if not WoW, then playing bingo with old people or something. VR will just be the next in a long line of scapegoats for people's underlying problems.

I was having this discussion with my brother at dinner tonight and I agree with you Blob. People who will get addicted to it will most likely get addicted to something else if VR wasn't around.

Offline Chino

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #60 on: March 04, 2016, 06:28:55 AM »
Certain kinds of people will always latch onto an escape. If not VR, then WoW, if not WoW, then playing bingo with old people or something. VR will just be the next in a long line of scapegoats for people's underlying problems.

I was having this discussion with my brother at dinner tonight and I agree with you Blob. People who will get addicted to it will most likely get addicted to something else if VR wasn't around.

I agree with all of that, but I won't be surprised for a second if VR increases that number significantly.

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #61 on: March 05, 2016, 06:38:22 AM »
I can see that happening too, it's opens another world to people, probably similar to when the internet started becoming more common in households.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #62 on: March 05, 2016, 06:41:22 AM »
I can see that happening too, it's opens another world to people, probably similar to when the internet started becoming more common in households.

And just compare the difference in quality of porn between low resolution jpgs that took minutes to load vs. high resolution virtual reality video.

Yeah, good luck getting your sons to leave their bedrooms now. :neverusethis:
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 06:46:29 AM by BlobVanDam »
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #63 on: March 17, 2016, 08:39:16 AM »
Playstation VR $399 for the basics, release date in October. Great price if you already have a PS4, and even if you don't have a PS4, it still works out competitively compared to the PC path. Not personally interested in PS4 gaming or what I could do with it, but this a relatively low entry barrier to VR and I think it will help the market overall.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Lynxo

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #64 on: March 17, 2016, 09:49:12 AM »
Since I'm a console gamer, it's the PlayStation VR that I'm personally really interested in. I will definitely be buying this when it comes out.

Also, interesting article about what happens when you use one of these devices all day.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #65 on: March 17, 2016, 10:08:55 AM »
The PS4 VR system looks like it's got great specs and a great price.  Seems it may be able to handle more than the PS4 can give it.

Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #66 on: March 18, 2016, 09:58:19 AM »
Interesting that the prices are so diffrent especially between OR and Vive but also great because it's easier to find something in your price tag although to be honest the prices will go down eventually anyway so there's no need to buy the cheapest for that single reason. Personally I just like everything that Valve is doing with the Vive even though the price is a bit hefty.

PlayStation VR - $399 USD


Oculus Rift - $599 USD


HTC Vive - $799 USD


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« Last Edit: March 18, 2016, 10:04:38 AM by MrBoom_shack-a-lack »
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #67 on: March 18, 2016, 09:59:15 AM »
I don't think having the screens close to your face will be a big issue, because the focal point of your eyes isn't at the fixed distance of the screens, it should match reality where the focal point is constanty changing, and unlike 3D movies, the focal point should be the same as the focal depth because it more closely mimics human vision. This should eliminate a lot of the strain issues associated with traditional 2D and 3D screens.

I don't know whether this has been addressed, but just saw this. There are actually two ways your eyes focus; one is by turning the eyeballs towards each other so that the pupils both point toward the object, the other is by the adjusting the stretch of the lens so that each eye's focus is tuned towards the distance of the object.
3D in its current form only addresses the first part.  Because it is after all a 2D surface that creates the image, the lens has to stay focused in one focal length, whereas the eyeballs adjust. That is completely unnatural, and causes eye strain.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #68 on: March 18, 2016, 10:09:48 AM »
Interesting that the prices are so diffrent especially between OR and Vive but also great because it's easier to find something in your price tag although to be honest the prices will go down eventually anyway so there's no need to by the cheapest for that single reason. Personally I just like everything that Valve is doing with the Vive even though the price is a bit hefty.

The big difference between the Vive and Rift is that the Vive comes with the two motion controllers, whereas the Rift does not, instead coming with an XBOX One controller until their motion controllers are ready for release. That accounts for most of the price difference there.
Sony is probably able to price the PSVR closer to cost (possibly even below at this point) so it will catch on, plus it doesn't come with the camera necessary for head tracking (it uses the existing PS camera), and doesn't come with the Move controllers, which enables them a lower price point. If you need the camera and controllers, the price is closer.


I don't think having the screens close to your face will be a big issue, because the focal point of your eyes isn't at the fixed distance of the screens, it should match reality where the focal point is constanty changing, and unlike 3D movies, the focal point should be the same as the focal depth because it more closely mimics human vision. This should eliminate a lot of the strain issues associated with traditional 2D and 3D screens.

I don't know whether this has been addressed, but just saw this. There are actually two ways your eyes focus; one is by turning the eyeballs towards each other so that the pupils both point toward the object, the other is by the adjusting the stretch of the lens so that each eye's focus is tuned towards the distance of the object.
3D in its current form only addresses the first part.  Because it is after all a 2D surface that creates the image, the lens has to stay focused in one focal length, whereas the eyeballs adjust. That is completely unnatural, and causes eye strain.

I've never had a great understanding of how the second focus method works in conjunction with the first type, but I haven't heard anything about VR causing strain, because it closely mimics the natural stereoscopic vision per eye, unlike 3D screens that have different focal points for methods 1 & 2. The fact that the entire image is in focus and doesn't require the eyes to adjust depth in that matter may be a problem, or maybe not.
I've read critiques of this problem concerning traditional 3D screens, but haven't seen anything about the issue in VR.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: Virtual Reality
« Reply #69 on: March 18, 2016, 10:14:47 AM »
Interesting that the prices are so diffrent especially between OR and Vive but also great because it's easier to find something in your price tag although to be honest the prices will go down eventually anyway so there's no need to by the cheapest for that single reason. Personally I just like everything that Valve is doing with the Vive even though the price is a bit hefty.
The big difference between the Vive and Rift is that the Vive comes with the two motion controllers, whereas the Rift does not, instead coming with an XBOX One controller until their motion controllers are ready for release. That accounts for most of the price difference there.
Yea that's true, forgot that the Rift dosen't include motion controllers.
"I said to Nigel Tufnel, 'The door is open if you want to do anything on this record,' but it turns out Nigel has a phobia about doors." /Derek Smalls