Author Topic: Octavarium - 10 Years  (Read 15542 times)

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Online bl5150

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #140 on: June 30, 2015, 10:59:00 PM »
King has proven that opinions can be wrong because in his opinion.....opinions can be wrong. :neverusethis:

You might be right  :lol 
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #141 on: June 30, 2015, 11:06:50 PM »
But seriously, it seems as if some people have this need to somehow prove that MM is objectively better, but if you prefer MP, it's just your personal taste.
Both drummers have their strengths and weaknesses, some people will prefer different aspects over others. Deal with it.

How the hell did a thread about Octavarium get to the topic of MM anyway?!! So pointless and irrelevant.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 11:12:58 PM by BlobVanDam »
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #142 on: June 30, 2015, 11:17:28 PM »

MM plays that outro differently because he's bound to a click track and they had to arrange it differently, it has nothing to do with "overdrumming" at all.
.

Very authoritative statement, you talked to them?

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #143 on: July 01, 2015, 02:44:49 AM »

MM plays that outro differently because he's bound to a click track and they had to arrange it differently, it has nothing to do with "overdrumming" at all.
.

Very authoritative statement, you talked to them?

It is known they play to a click track, and MP said on the Metropolis 2000 commentary that the rest of the band held that section together while MP did those fills, which doesn't work with their current setup. The section had to be changed to accommodate that.
Makes more sense than guessing based on personal opinions.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 03:20:07 AM by BlobVanDam »
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #144 on: July 01, 2015, 04:38:46 AM »
It doesn't make sense because having a click track actually allows you to do fills because there is a metronome playing. MM's fill outside 4/4 in the Finally Free outro in BTFW also disputes the claim that he needs to drum the basic pattern to keep the  music tight.

My understanding also is that MM is not the only guy who hears the click track. How does JP enter in perfect sync with the click track after the Paradox of the Black Light? Or JM from the Embracing Circle?

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #145 on: July 01, 2015, 04:43:55 AM »
It doesn't make sense because having a click track actually allows you to do fills because there is a metronome playing. MM's fill outside 4/4 in the Finally Free outro in BTFW also disputes the claim that he needs to drum the basic pattern to keep the  music tight.

My understanding also is that MM is not the only guy who hears the click track. How does JP enter in perfect sync with the click track after the Paradox of the Black Light? Or JM from the Embracing Circle?

If they're doing it like they did with MP, secret cowbell (ie a triggered drum that only the band hears).
My understanding is that the band doesn't hear any click, only MM. It would be a muddle to have everyone hearing both the drums and the click. You want to lock in to the drummer's rhythm.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 04:49:10 AM by BlobVanDam »
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #146 on: July 01, 2015, 05:05:46 AM »
To get the thread back on track, I always liked MP's more measured and disciplined drumming in Octavarium. For my taste, he started to go overboard from the SDOIT album onwards (he almost ruined Blimd Faith and Misunderstood) and it's good he reined it in in this epic.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #147 on: July 01, 2015, 06:05:23 AM »
Blind Faith is among the best drumming in a DT song, and Misunderstood is one of my favourites too, with the great cymbal and tom work. Ruin? Not even close. SDOIT is one of MP's best albums.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #148 on: July 01, 2015, 06:42:32 AM »
I'm just more of a fan of the MP whose primary weapon is his expansive vocabulary of drum patterns (Awake is my fave drum album ever) than the MP who became obsessed with drum fills in almost every line.

Offline Dream Team

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #149 on: July 01, 2015, 06:49:05 AM »
Blind Faith is among the best drumming in a DT song, and Misunderstood is one of my favourites too, with the great cymbal and tom work. Ruin? Not even close. SDOIT is one of MP's best albums.

Yup, #1 MP album performance for me. The beginning of Misunderstood is especially tasty, can't fathom any criticism of it.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #150 on: July 01, 2015, 07:03:37 AM »
Blind Faith is among the best drumming in a DT song, and Misunderstood is one of my favourites too, with the great cymbal and tom work. Ruin? Not even close. SDOIT is one of MP's best albums.

Yup, #1 MP album performance for me. The beginning of Misunderstood is especially tasty, can't fathom any criticism of it.

It's excessive and does not contribute to the mood that the song is trying to establish. While the guitar, the keys, the bass and the vocals are establishing the mood of the song, the drums are just calling attention.

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #151 on: July 01, 2015, 07:15:52 AM »
King has proven that opinions can be wrong because in his opinion.....opinions can be wrong. :neverusethis:

You might be right  :lol

You may be crazy...........
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So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #152 on: July 01, 2015, 08:18:48 AM »
Blind Faith is among the best drumming in a DT song, and Misunderstood is one of my favourites too, with the great cymbal and tom work. Ruin? Not even close. SDOIT is one of MP's best albums.

Yup, #1 MP album performance for me. The beginning of Misunderstood is especially tasty, can't fathom any criticism of it.

Neither can I. The first 3 and a half minutes of Misunderstood is one of my favourite DT headphone moments, between the low bass guitar, the clean guitar, the ambient keys, and the sparse drumming.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline JayOctavarium

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #153 on: July 01, 2015, 11:39:05 AM »
wait...

Misunderstood is on Octavarium?

I AM SO CONFUSED
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

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Online Zydar

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #154 on: July 01, 2015, 11:43:54 AM »
wait...

Misunderstood is on Octavarium?

I AM SO CONFUSED

It's a bonus track on the Greenland Edition.
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Offline JayOctavarium

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #155 on: July 01, 2015, 11:46:20 AM »
But it doesn't fit with the concept.

THIS IS NOT RIGHT!
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

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Offline CDrice

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #156 on: July 01, 2015, 12:17:34 PM »
But it doesn't fit with the concept.

THIS IS NOT RIGHT!

But it actually does fit the concept.

Misunderstood: Wanting to break from this circle of confusion
Octavarium: We move in circles, balanced all the while...

Misunderstood: Sleeping in the depths of isolation
Octavarium: But thinks he has cured me from a state of catatonic sleep

See! The proof is right there. Octavarium is actually about the person in Misunderstood!

Offline bosk1

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #157 on: July 01, 2015, 12:20:09 PM »
Wow.  Nuggets abound.
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Offline Lucien

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #158 on: July 01, 2015, 12:31:58 PM »
 :tdwn
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Offline JayOctavarium

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #159 on: July 01, 2015, 12:33:54 PM »
*mind blown*
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

-BlobVanDam on "Scarred"

Offline jasc15

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #160 on: July 29, 2015, 02:03:02 PM »
Octavarium marks the end of my high level of interest in DT.  I started my fandom with the release of SFAM and kept current with each album until Octavarium.  I am fortunate enough to live in the NYC area, and saw them each time they visited between 2000 and 2006, which included the Live Scenes from NY show, and the Score show at Radio City.  I anticipated the release of their followup to Octavarium, but was rather disappointed and only listened to Systematic Chaos a few times before shelving it.  Thus, Octavarium remains, in my opinion, their last good album.  After that, I haven't bought any of their subsequent releases, though I continued to listen to everything from I&W to 8VM.  I've listened here and there to some songs from the post-Systematic Chaos albums, just to get an idea of what they were doing, but nothing interested me.  Seemed rather lifeless.

A few weeks ago, something made me buy the LSFNY DVD (I only had it on VHS before) and I loved it as much as I remember when watching it 14 years ago.  It was great to see the bonus footage too, including ACOS.  I still like DT as much as ever, but everything after 2006 is unrecognizable to me.  I attribute some of this to getting older, where I have come to appreciate good songs that are written simply and am less impressed with technical ability.  That being said, I feel DT did a great job combining songwriting ability, emotional and thoughtful lyrics and melodies with their technical proficiency, but they have lost that somewhere after Octavarium.

Offline goo-goo

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #161 on: July 29, 2015, 02:24:44 PM »
Octavarium  That being said, I feel DT did a great job combining songwriting ability, emotional and thoughtful lyrics and melodies with their technical proficiency, but they have lost that somewhere after Octavarium.

You might want to check out their last two albums (especially DT12) as they are more melodical and the lyrics are also very good as well.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #162 on: July 29, 2015, 03:37:08 PM »
Octavarium  That being said, I feel DT did a great job combining songwriting ability, emotional and thoughtful lyrics and melodies with their technical proficiency, but they have lost that somewhere after Octavarium.

You might want to check out their last two albums (especially DT12) as they are more melodical and the lyrics are also very good as well.

Agreed, after reading that I was about to suggest DT12.

Offline jasc15

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #163 on: July 29, 2015, 07:32:32 PM »
Thanks, I'll check out DT12.  I'm not one of those fans who is expecting the next Awake or Images and Words.  I like when bands progress and try new things.  I just don't necessarily like where they have progressed.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #164 on: July 29, 2015, 09:27:46 PM »
Octavarium marks the end of my high level of interest in DT.  I started my fandom with the release of SFAM and kept current with each album until Octavarium.  I am fortunate enough to live in the NYC area, and saw them each time they visited between 2000 and 2006, which included the Live Scenes from NY show, and the Score show at Radio City.  I anticipated the release of their followup to Octavarium, but was rather disappointed and only listened to Systematic Chaos a few times before shelving it.  Thus, Octavarium remains, in my opinion, their last good album.  After that, I haven't bought any of their subsequent releases, though I continued to listen to everything from I&W to 8VM.  I've listened here and there to some songs from the post-Systematic Chaos albums, just to get an idea of what they were doing, but nothing interested me.  Seemed rather lifeless.

I'd still say that Octavarium is their last truly great album.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 09:42:03 PM by BlobVanDam »
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #165 on: July 30, 2015, 02:39:28 AM »

I'd still say that Octavarium is their last truly great album.

Absolutely. The last album were they were firing on all cylinders as it were.

In my mind - with the possible exception of A Dramatic Turn.... every album has been an attempt to re-create Octavarium.

Offline Train of Naught

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #166 on: July 30, 2015, 04:21:48 AM »
Do you mean because there's a 15+ minute epic at the end of each of those albums? Because that might just be the structure they want their albums to be.
people on this board are actual music fans who developed taste in music and not casual listeners who are following current fashion trends and listening to only current commercial hits.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #167 on: July 30, 2015, 04:26:33 AM »
I think DT12 was definitely another attempt at a similarly structured album, but not the rest. BCASL was intended as a whole album of epics, which is kind of the opposite of Octavarium, and ADTOE was one of their most varied, so I wouldn't fit it into any particular mold.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Mindflux

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #168 on: August 05, 2015, 03:06:23 PM »
I had a heck of a time finding the album locally. In fact it may have been when I started to realize that retailers weren't holding thousands of CDs on their shelves anymore.  I worked at Best Buy in the mid 90s and remember the CD section was ENORMOUS.

Anyway. I've always loved most of the album. I still skip Panic Attack just doesn't jive with there rest of the album for me.

I just can't stand the way James sings in this song.


Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #169 on: August 05, 2015, 03:21:02 PM »
I think DT12 was definitely another attempt at a similarly structured album, but not the rest. BCASL was intended as a whole album of epics, which is kind of the opposite of Octavarium, and ADTOE was one of their most varied, so I wouldn't fit it into any particular mold.

Systematic Chaos is almost exactly structured like Octavarium. Stick ITPOE at the end as one song and it's nearly the same.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #170 on: August 05, 2015, 09:46:54 PM »
I can see the surface similarities of "bunch of shorter songs, longer song near the end, 20+ minute epic", but I wouldn't consider it an "attempt to re-create Octavarium" as you said earlier. SC did perhaps cement the idea of more regular 20+ minute epics, but I think the mindset was totally different overall.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline FlyingBIZKIT

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #171 on: August 05, 2015, 09:48:05 PM »
Octavarium ain't bad. Half of it is awesome, half of it is just okay.

Offline Darkstarshades

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #172 on: August 06, 2015, 12:22:03 AM »
The song Octavarium is the worst song ever written.
First half is boring enough to bring an hyperactive man to a coma.
It features JR's worst solo easily by far, idk why the fuck hell he didn't use something like Bebot.
JP's ending solo is also total garbage. The Majesty Demos short "X thinks he's X Song" are so much much better.

This song sucks, their weakest piece of music easily. Idk what were they thinking when they wrote it, "Oooh it's a masterpiece" hell no. Hell meaningless lyrics that make Metropolis Pt1 look like a children toy instruction booklet

24 minutes of mindless string/key pressing and ridiculous percussions (You can see MP's desperation and disgust while playing it, he actually hits his own head, hoping to knock himself out and spare himself of this).


Aah who am I kidding this song is fucking very awesome.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 03:06:21 AM by Darkstarshades »
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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #173 on: August 06, 2015, 03:03:34 AM »
Well don't hold back....

And this from the guy who wanted to clean up the language on the board?  :corn
From the ocean comes the notion that the realise lies in rhythm. The rhythm of vision is dancer, and when you dance you´re always on the one. From the looking comes to see, wondrous realise real eyes....

Offline Darkstarshades

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Re: Octavarium - 10 Years
« Reply #174 on: August 06, 2015, 03:04:02 AM »
Well don't hold back....

And this from the guy who wanted to clean up the language on the board?  :corn

I am completely justified because I'm the leader of the crusade.
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