Poll

What are your favorites of these songs?

One Sweet World
0 (0%)
Two Step
1 (1.8%)
Rapunzel
3 (5.5%)
What Would You Say
1 (1.8%)
41
3 (5.5%)
Crush
3 (5.5%)
Granny
0 (0%)
Warehouse
4 (7.3%)
Pig
3 (5.5%)
Lie in Our Graves
1 (1.8%)
Ants Marching
3 (5.5%)
So Much to Say
2 (3.6%)
The Dreaming Tree
5 (9.1%)
Jimi Thing
4 (7.3%)
Too Much
0 (0%)
Satellite
1 (1.8%)
Don't Drink the Water
6 (10.9%)
Dancing Nancies
3 (5.5%)
Tripping Billies
2 (3.6%)
The Stone
5 (9.1%)
Typical Situation
2 (3.6%)
Crash into Me
2 (3.6%)
Stay (Wasting Time)
1 (1.8%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: November 12, 2023, 06:49:19 PM

Author Topic: Dave Matthews Band (core member leaves the band on 2/2/18)  (Read 6193 times)

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Offline The Curious Orange

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2018, 01:55:13 AM »
Personally, I think fans ARE entitled.

If you're a fan of a particular sports team, it's in your blood. Sure, they'll go through periods of losing games and falling down the tables, and fans will moan that they're rubbish, but we don't desert them and support a winning team instead because hey, we're fans. We're not entitled to have our team win, but if we're spending money on tickets and merch, we ARE entitled to have our team at least TRY to win. If we see them go out there and just not bother, then we're entitled to be angry. It's that "in the blood" devotion that these teams relied on to get where they are.

I've been a huge DT fan since 1993 - they're in my blood. I've bought the albums, gone to the shows, bought more t-shirts than I'll ever need. I still love DT, but they're not the band they used to be. Perhaps I just got used to being spoiled,  but being a DT fan felt like I was part of something special. It felt like the band cared about their fans. These days I feel like the band were just doing all that stuff to build up their fanbase to a certain level where they could stop doing it - they never actually cared at all. The ridiculous Meet & Greet prices, Gold, Silver and Platinum packages, etc, really do create the impression that they're only in for the money these days.

Oh, what about Springsteen? he's one of the biggest live draws on the planet and he still manages to play a totally different set every night, despite the band all being in their 60s now. Plus fans get to queue for the golden circle, and he releases an official bootleg of just about every show. If he can do it, other bands can.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 03:08:00 AM by The Curious Orange »
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2018, 07:13:35 AM »
As far as dave matthew's band goes, Before these crowded streets is one of my favorite albums ever made. And... then they released Everyday.  :-\

And I've never fully gotten back into them at the level I once was. Big whiskey was very solid and away from the world was just ok I guess. I'll definitely check out the new album and listen with an open mind. I look forward to hear some new DMB music regardless.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2018, 08:37:24 AM »
I think my comments here are two years too late, but still...

I used to see the DMB on the regular, back before I got married and what not.    Funny thing, my ex wouldn't go with me to see them, then as we were breaking up she met a guy that was hard core into them (he played her "Grey Street" which became her sort of "divorce anthem"; whatever).   I don't say this to bitch; I say it because in the last three, four years, they have made a point to see EVERY DMB show in Hartford, even the multiple shows.   Now, they don't really give a shit about the setlists, even though they'll be the first to tell you that's why they go, but the one bitch that I hear every time she tells me they went?   "The fans".   It's not ALL older fans; there are a fair number of younger fans that just show up for the tailgate and the party.  Granted, some of it is sour grapes from a couple in their 50's that don't want to step on beer cans on their way in from the VIP Parking Lot, but I think there's some truth there.   The Dead complained about this in their latter years too; where they felt like no matter what they played, it was to deaf ears and they were merely the excuse for getting the flock together. 

Plus, I think it's hard to transition from "art" to "business" and not have at least some interest in maintaining/sustaining the "business" side of things.  This has been a factor in the DT world too.   

Offline romdrums

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2018, 08:59:22 AM »
The DMB fanbase is one of the main reasons I'm no longer a fan of this band.  I saw them 10 times live between November 1998 and August 2002, and I will never see them live again.  Made the mistake of getting lawn seats for back to back shows at Alpine Valley in Wisconsin, and it was terrible.  The first night, there was some pookah shell necklace wearing Chad bro yelling "PLAY NUMBER 41!!!!!" all freakin' night, and he got more and more belligerent as the night went on because they didn't play it that night (ended up playing it the next night).  Both nights, I just wanted to sit back and enjoy the shows, and my enjoyment was ruined because the popped collar crowd couldn't handle their illicit substances.  It also didn't help that I couldn't see the stage at all, and the PA system sounded like a broke-ass boombox.  When I go back and look at the setlists for those shows (8.31.2002 and 9.1.2002 for those playing at home), they should have been great shows.
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2018, 09:49:36 AM »
The DMB fanbase is one of the main reasons I'm no longer a fan of this band.  I saw them 10 times live between November 1998 and August 2002, and I will never see them live again.  Made the mistake of getting lawn seats for back to back shows at Alpine Valley in Wisconsin, and it was terrible.  The first night, there was some pookah shell necklace wearing Chad bro yelling "PLAY NUMBER 41!!!!!" all freakin' night, and he got more and more belligerent as the night went on because they didn't play it that night (ended up playing it the next night).  Both nights, I just wanted to sit back and enjoy the shows, and my enjoyment was ruined because the popped collar crowd couldn't handle their illicit substances.  It also didn't help that I couldn't see the stage at all, and the PA system sounded like a broke-ass boombox.  When I go back and look at the setlists for those shows (8.31.2002 and 9.1.2002 for those playing at home), they should have been great shows.

Chads are the worst. I had one screaming in my ear "PLAY BORED" when deftones opened for Incubus. Just over and over. Its like: They can't hear you, but I certainly can, so just shut up and enjoy the show. geez

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2018, 09:50:25 AM »
"Chads"  :rollin
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Online devieira73

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2018, 10:43:10 AM »
Count me as another person who thinks that Before these crowded streets is one of the best albums made by mankind... so the albums after that are very good (with the exception of stand up - that album seems to have the majority of songs like they were just unfinished), but kind of disappointed me, because the bar was set incredibly high by BTCS.
Another thought about the band's sound after BTCS, it's that it seemed to me that the studio versions of the new songs, from then on, has less solos that they should and the live versions of them seems to have more solos/improvisations that they should, which have been annoying me a bit for the last 20 years (?! wow). That's why I still think Live at red rocks 95 and Listener supported are their best live albums.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2018, 05:58:05 PM »
Yeah, they really cut back on the extended solo sections post-BTCS, which has been a little disappointing. I know a lot of fans don't care because they extend a lot of them live, but I don't have time to listen to 49 live versions to find the perfect one. :lol :lol

Before These Crowded Streets is still one of those awesome perfect records. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

Offline DTA

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2018, 06:49:49 AM »
Yeah, they really cut back on the extended solo sections post-BTCS, which has been a little disappointing. I know a lot of fans don't care because they extend a lot of them live, but I don't have time to listen to 49 live versions to find the perfect one. :lol :lol

Before These Crowded Streets is still one of those awesome perfect records. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

BTCS was the first DMB album I ever heard and sadly, none of their other albums come even remotely close to its greatness.

Offline ChuckSteak

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2018, 07:41:20 AM »
I haven't heard DMB, but I think in general a lot of bands are sadly very lazy with their live sets. It's a shame that a lot of bands play it safe, when there is a lot of potential for mixing things up and surprising the fans with awesome songs that haven't been played live in a while.
This.

I know of no band who changes setlists as much as DT used to do. Nowadays people all get the exactly same setlist for the whole tour. Only very few artists change a song or two. Now almost everyone knows what the band is going to play before they do it (except those who don't look at the setlist). It has become so predictable.

Offline DTA

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2018, 07:56:20 AM »
I haven't heard DMB, but I think in general a lot of bands are sadly very lazy with their live sets. It's a shame that a lot of bands play it safe, when there is a lot of potential for mixing things up and surprising the fans with awesome songs that haven't been played live in a while.
This.

I know of no band who changes setlists as much as DT used to do. Nowadays people all get the exactly same setlist for the whole tour. Only very few artists change a song or two. Now almost everyone knows what the band is going to play before they do it (except those who don't look at the setlist). It has become so predictable.

I don't even think keeping one setlist for a whole tour leg is a problem. To me there's no reason why a band shouldn't play the same set in NYC that they play in LA. I think the issue is when every single tour features the same group of songs over and over again. DT has still been pretty awesome because every tour features an entirely new group of songs with virtually no overlap save for a few tracks. As far as I'm concerned, DMB is still worth seeing live because you know there's a chance that virtually anything could be played, no matter how rare a song is.

I love the Red Hot Chili Peppers, but every tour it's just the same older songs (granted they rotate a bunch of them nightly but it's still the same group of songs being rotated) plus new album songs and a few rarities along the way. Megadeth hasn't changed their setlist since 1997. U2 used to do a pretty good job, but they've fallen into a rut with only playing their more popular songs at the expense of deeper tracks. Metallica rotate nightly but it's still the same songs from tour to tour with a few rarities thrown in (usually in Europe/Australia for some reason).

Is it laziness? I hate when bands say that certain songs don't get a reaction from the audience, and then get dropped forever. They don't get a reaction because you never play them idiots. I'm sure there was a point where Sunday Bloody Sunday got a shitty reaction from the crowd too.

Offline ganpondorodf

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2018, 08:36:20 AM »
Stairway to Heaven rather famously got a terrible response the first time it was performed

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #47 on: January 26, 2018, 08:47:19 AM »
I haven't heard DMB, but I think in general a lot of bands are sadly very lazy with their live sets. It's a shame that a lot of bands play it safe, when there is a lot of potential for mixing things up and surprising the fans with awesome songs that haven't been played live in a while.
This.

I know of no band who changes setlists as much as DT used to do. Nowadays people all get the exactly same setlist for the whole tour. Only very few artists change a song or two. Now almost everyone knows what the band is going to play before they do it (except those who don't look at the setlist). It has become so predictable.

Umphrey's Mcgee.  Their set changes every show.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #48 on: January 26, 2018, 09:01:24 AM »
I haven't heard DMB, but I think in general a lot of bands are sadly very lazy with their live sets. It's a shame that a lot of bands play it safe, when there is a lot of potential for mixing things up and surprising the fans with awesome songs that haven't been played live in a while.
This.

I know of no band who changes setlists as much as DT used to do. Nowadays people all get the exactly same setlist for the whole tour. Only very few artists change a song or two. Now almost everyone knows what the band is going to play before they do it (except those who don't look at the setlist). It has become so predictable.

Umphrey's Mcgee.  Their set changes every show.

As does 311, hence why I saw them 5 times last year and 6 times the year before.  Different setlists every single time.  But yea, to the point, not many bands do that.

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #49 on: January 26, 2018, 01:29:47 PM »
I hate when bands say that certain songs don't get a reaction from the audience, and then get dropped forever. They don't get a reaction because you never play them idiots. I'm sure there was a point where Sunday Bloody Sunday got a shitty reaction from the crowd too.
Sadly, that seems to be what has happened to DT now. During the first North American leg of the Dramatic tour, The Great Debate was one of the songs in the setlist. But in less than 2 weeks it was dropped from the set. When I asked JP about it, he said it was because they didn't get a reaction from the audience. Unfortunately, the same thing happened during the last run of shows they did last year (again in North America). First they dropped Don't Look Past Me, and later To Live Forever - both rare non-album songs that many diehards were looking forward to seeing. Again, both were dropped because they weren't getting the same reaction as other songs.

I fear that in the future, we're going to see even more of this at DT shows, where popular songs are regularly played (PMU, Metropolis, TSCO, etc) at the expense of "deep" cuts that are forgotten about. I'm not saying they should just do a setlist full of nothing but rarities, B-sides, covers and the like (altho that would be really cool, just like it was with the shows they did in December 1998), but it would be nice if they'd throw a couple of rarities in each setlist for the sake of the diehards who have been with them from the start, or who have been seeing them live on every tour for at least the last 15 years.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2018, 02:00:36 PM »
I fear that in the future, we're going to see even more of this at DT shows, where popular songs are regularly played (PMU, Metropolis, TSCO, etc) at the expense of "deep" cuts that are forgotten about. I'm not saying they should just do a setlist full of nothing but rarities, B-sides, covers and the like (altho that would be really cool, just like it was with the shows they did in December 1998), but it would be nice if they'd throw a couple of rarities in each setlist for the sake of the diehards who have been with them from the start, or who have been seeing them live on every tour for at least the last 15 years.

The part that's not cool with this is that DT are not a "hits" band.  They have one hit which historically doesn't even get played at every show.  I think DT knows they have a diverse fan base and needs to interject some lesser played songs every once and awhile.  They also have historically had (and still even with MM) a good refresh of songs each tour.  If they keep passing off the rare songs for the "hits" I think they will alienate their fanbase moreso than what happened by just stopping the rotating setlists.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #51 on: January 26, 2018, 05:38:40 PM »

I don't even think keeping one setlist for a whole tour leg is a problem. To me there's no reason why a band shouldn't play the same set in NYC that they play in LA. I think the issue is when every single tour features the same group of songs over and over again. DT has still been pretty awesome because every tour features an entirely new group of songs with virtually no overlap save for a few tracks. As far as I'm concerned, DMB is still worth seeing live because you know there's a chance that virtually anything could be played, no matter how rare a song is.

Agreed, on all accounts.

DT has done an awesome job of changing the set lists up from tour to tour, and quite frankly, people still bitching about rotating set lists gets a yawn from me.  They are a thing of the past.  Get over it.

I saw DMB at back to back shows in 2000 and 2001 and it was great basically getting completely different shows both nights.  In fact, the first show I saw in 2000 featured some of the material that eventually ended up on The Lillywhite Sessions and Busted Stuff.  I remember we got Grey Street, JTR and Bartender (and I think Raven and maybe Grace is Gone), all of which I had never heard before prior. That was awesome.

Offline DTA

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #52 on: January 27, 2018, 10:06:06 AM »
I hate when bands say that certain songs don't get a reaction from the audience, and then get dropped forever. They don't get a reaction because you never play them idiots. I'm sure there was a point where Sunday Bloody Sunday got a shitty reaction from the crowd too.
Sadly, that seems to be what has happened to DT now. During the first North American leg of the Dramatic tour, The Great Debate was one of the songs in the setlist. But in less than 2 weeks it was dropped from the set. When I asked JP about it, he said it was because they didn't get a reaction from the audience. Unfortunately, the same thing happened during the last run of shows they did last year (again in North America). First they dropped Don't Look Past Me, and later To Live Forever - both rare non-album songs that many diehards were looking forward to seeing. Again, both were dropped because they weren't getting the same reaction as other songs.

I fear that in the future, we're going to see even more of this at DT shows, where popular songs are regularly played (PMU, Metropolis, TSCO, etc) at the expense of "deep" cuts that are forgotten about. I'm not saying they should just do a setlist full of nothing but rarities, B-sides, covers and the like (altho that would be really cool, just like it was with the shows they did in December 1998), but it would be nice if they'd throw a couple of rarities in each setlist for the sake of the diehards who have been with them from the start, or who have been seeing them live on every tour for at least the last 15 years.

Yeah, I was at one of the shows after DLPM was dropped and it disappointed the hell out of me. Luckily, I still managed to get To Live Forever, but losing DLPM really sucked. But you have to figure, they still busted out Hell's Kitchen which hasn't been done in full since the FII tour (and even then sparsely), The Bigger Picture (unplayed until that point), and ACoS (not done since the ToT tour I believe) so there were still rarities. It does seem like TSCO and As I Am are weaseling their way into every setlist, but still, they get good reactions from the crowd and aren't too long, so I can forgive the band for playing them as long as some rarities are present. So far, I'd say they've done an excellent job at creating interesting and diverse setlists with some great surprise choices (including the mother of all rarities in Space Dye Vest - which even MP said would never appear!).

Offline DTA

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2018, 10:24:48 AM »

I don't even think keeping one setlist for a whole tour leg is a problem. To me there's no reason why a band shouldn't play the same set in NYC that they play in LA. I think the issue is when every single tour features the same group of songs over and over again. DT has still been pretty awesome because every tour features an entirely new group of songs with virtually no overlap save for a few tracks. As far as I'm concerned, DMB is still worth seeing live because you know there's a chance that virtually anything could be played, no matter how rare a song is.

Agreed, on all accounts.

DT has done an awesome job of changing the set lists up from tour to tour, and quite frankly, people still bitching about rotating set lists gets a yawn from me.  They are a thing of the past.  Get over it.

I saw DMB at back to back shows in 2000 and 2001 and it was great basically getting completely different shows both nights.  In fact, the first show I saw in 2000 featured some of the material that eventually ended up on The Lillywhite Sessions and Busted Stuff.  I remember we got Grey Street, JTR and Bartender (and I think Raven and maybe Grace is Gone), all of which I had never heard before prior. That was awesome.

I never understood the rotating set complaints either. Dream Theater has always done rare songs, but most of their setlist choices are just regular album tracks that they switch up each tour leg. So if you didn't see something on one tour, it most likely would appear one or two tours down the road. And with playing 3 hour shows, after a couple tours, it got to the point where they'd almost run out of songs to play, and I'd see a setlist with a bunch of songs I've seen already.

It's not like they do live jams and drastically change up songs to make each live show collectible either (which they rarely did with MP outside of the I&W tour and Hollow Years/Beyond This Life on ToT and Surrounded on Chaos In Motion and even then, the jams were almost choreographed to the point where they were the same night after night.)

It's just a bizarre argument and does not reflect the reality of just how little the rotating sets mattered in the grand scheme of DT's setlists.

You just never know when DMB is going to liberate a song, and there's no songs that are "off-limits" according to my knowledge, so it's exciting wondering if tonight is going to be the night they bust out Let You Down or something else rare. The unpredictability factor is huge. I love Coheed & Cambria, but they have many songs that the singer deems too personal to play live, which just makes their setlists feel stale since you know a good portion is off-limits. Very annoying as a fan who wants to see as many different songs as possible.

Offline DTA

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #54 on: January 27, 2018, 10:25:42 AM »

I don't even think keeping one setlist for a whole tour leg is a problem. To me there's no reason why a band shouldn't play the same set in NYC that they play in LA. I think the issue is when every single tour features the same group of songs over and over again. DT has still been pretty awesome because every tour features an entirely new group of songs with virtually no overlap save for a few tracks. As far as I'm concerned, DMB is still worth seeing live because you know there's a chance that virtually anything could be played, no matter how rare a song is.

Agreed, on all accounts.

DT has done an awesome job of changing the set lists up from tour to tour, and quite frankly, people still bitching about rotating set lists gets a yawn from me.  They are a thing of the past.  Get over it.

I saw DMB at back to back shows in 2000 and 2001 and it was great basically getting completely different shows both nights.  In fact, the first show I saw in 2000 featured some of the material that eventually ended up on The Lillywhite Sessions and Busted Stuff.  I remember we got Grey Street, JTR and Bartender (and I think Raven and maybe Grace is Gone), all of which I had never heard before prior. That was awesome.

I never understood the rotating set complaints either. Dream Theater has always done rare songs, but most of their setlist choices are just regular album tracks that they switch up each tour leg. So if you didn't see something on one tour, it most likely would appear one or two tours down the road. And with playing 3 hour shows, after a couple tours, it got to the point where they'd almost run out of songs to play, and I'd see a setlist with a bunch of songs I've seen already.

It's not like they do live jams and drastically change up songs to make each live show collectible either (which they rarely did with MP outside of the I&W tour and Hollow Years/Beyond This Life on ToT and Surrounded on Chaos In Motion and even then, the jams were almost choreographed to the point where they were the same night after night.)

It's just a bizarre argument and does not reflect the reality of just how little the rotating sets mattered in the grand scheme of DT's setlists.

DMB is great because you just never know when DMB is going to liberate a song, and there's no songs that are "off-limits" according to my knowledge, so it's exciting wondering if tonight is going to be the night they bust out Let You Down or something else rare. The unpredictability factor is huge. I love Coheed & Cambria, but they have many songs that the singer deems too personal to play live, which just makes their setlists feel stale since you know a good portion is off-limits. Very annoying as a fan who wants to see as many different songs as possible.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #55 on: January 27, 2018, 05:03:22 PM »


You just never know when DMB is going to liberate a song, and there's no songs that are "off-limits" according to my knowledge, so it's exciting wondering if tonight is going to be the night they bust out Let You Down or something else rare. The unpredictability factor is huge.

Very true.  Sure, they have songs they play a lot - 41, Two Step, Crush, Too Much, Jimi Thing, Warehouse, Grey Street, etc. - but like you said, pretty much any song is fair game on any given night (or at least used to be; I stopped following their set lists a few years ago).  I loved how they would always bust out Halloween for a few shows every tour.  For as pretty a voice as Dave Matthews has, he sure can bust out a gritty vocal when he wants to, and Halloween is Exhibit A.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #56 on: January 27, 2018, 05:51:05 PM »
For as pretty a voice as Dave Matthews has
:puke:
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #57 on: January 27, 2018, 07:21:41 PM »
What I mean is that he usually sings in a higher voice, which one would describe as pretty, and for those who only know their hits, it would be likely be a shock to the system to hear the grit and fury in his voice when singing something like Halloween. 

The end of Don't Drink the Water is pretty furious vocally as well, although that is probably not one of their most well known hits. 

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #58 on: January 27, 2018, 09:40:24 PM »
What I mean is that he usually sings in a higher voice, which one would describe as pretty...

If one was deaf. Does Tiny Tim has a pretty voice? Sorry to bust your chops here. I really hate his music, which is why I haven't commented in this thread. But I had to chime in on that because I can't imagine even the die hardest of fans calling his voice pretty.

Incidentally, I was in Charlottesville in the mid-90s when the band was getting some traction. Coming from the PNW, I had never heard of him, so when everyone there thought he was the second coming, I thought they were out of their minds.
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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #59 on: January 27, 2018, 10:27:07 PM »
I never understood the rotating set complaints either. Dream Theater has always done rare songs, but most of their setlist choices are just regular album tracks that they switch up each tour leg. So if you didn't see something on one tour, it most likely would appear one or two tours down the road. And with playing 3 hour shows, after a couple tours, it got to the point where they'd almost run out of songs to play, and I'd see a setlist with a bunch of songs I've seen already.

It's not like they do live jams and drastically change up songs to make each live show collectible either (which they rarely did with MP outside of the I&W tour and Hollow Years/Beyond This Life on ToT and Surrounded on Chaos In Motion and even then, the jams were almost choreographed to the point where they were the same night after night.)

It's just a bizarre argument and does not reflect the reality of just how little the rotating sets mattered in the grand scheme of DT's setlists.
While DT's setlist rotation certainly was not of the same caliber of what you're stating about DMB's and all the jam bands out there, I think you're glossing over the details.

Of course there are several songs that would make the master setlist (in other words, the complete list of songs prepped for a tour) on most tours, but there was plenty of other stuff that did not. With as much of a back catalog as they have (at this point, over 18 hours of original material), these days it would take several tours - not just "one or two tours down the road" - before songs in the catalog would appear in the master setlist again, if done the way MP did it. And that's assuming we're just talking about Evening With tours; when carrying one or more opening acts so that their sets were between 1.5 and 2 hours long, it would take even longer.

As for changing things up live, again, they didn't do it anywhere near what DMB does, but there's plenty of songs that over the years were revised varying degrees. Besides the ones you cited, what about The Killing Hand, To Live Forever (1993, 1998, 2004), Metropolis (1996-97, 2004-09), Take the Time (1994-95), Wait for Sleep (1992-93, 1995), Learning to Live (1996-97, 2005-06), The Silent Man (1995-2004), Caught in Alice's Nine Inch Tool Garden (1996-97), Lines in the Sand (2002), Solitary Shell (2009-10); the extended intros to The Mirror (1994-95), Lifting Shadows (1995, 1998, 1999), Scarred (2002, 2007), Trial of Tears and Octavarium? Yeah, in most cases, these were structured changes to the songs, but the changes always made for something new to look forward to on each tour, even if we'd already seen the song performed already on an earlier tour.

Then throw in the live only instrumentals/improvs and occasional LTE tracks, as well as the controversial covers (full albums and individual covers) and medleys, and there was even more variety added to the setlists of old. So I seriously beg to differ on your claim of the idea that the rotation of DT's setlist mattered little. Not up to DMB's standards, but certainly far more so than many other bands.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #60 on: January 28, 2018, 06:47:37 AM »
What I mean is that he usually sings in a higher voice, which one would describe as pretty...

If one was deaf. Does Tiny Tim has a pretty voice? Sorry to bust your chops here. I really hate his music, which is why I haven't commented in this thread. But I had to chime in on that because I can't imagine even the die hardest of fans calling his voice pretty.

Incidentally, I was in Charlottesville in the mid-90s when the band was getting some traction. Coming from the PNW, I had never heard of him, so when everyone there thought he was the second coming, I thought they were out of their minds.

Nah, it's all good. I get that a lot of people do not like DMB, for various reasons.  Really, it's blind luck that I got into them at all.  My younger brother on a whim bought Before These Crowded Streets shortly after it was released, loved it, and "forced" me to listen to the 3-song run of The Stone, Crush and The Dreaming Tree, which floored me, instantly converting me.  At that point, all I knew by them from the radio was What Would You Say, which I never cared for (I like it a lot now), and it is unlikely that I would have taken any time to try to get into them had my brother not played them for me, given their rep as a jam band and the fact that hardly any other close friends then or since have been a fan (except for the one, who got into them thanks to my recommendation), so there would have been no one else close to me to get me into them (the two different girlfriends I saw them with in 2000 and 2004 were casual fans at best).  So yeah, like I said, blind luck. :lol :lol

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2018, 07:14:15 AM »
I was lucky enough to see them in 1996.  They put on a fantastic show. 
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #62 on: January 28, 2018, 07:21:12 AM »
Always one-upping me. :facepalm:

"I got into this band in 1998."
"I saw them in 1996."

"I got into this band in 1991."
"I saw them in 1988."

"I bought this album the day it came out!"
"I preordered the album and got it the day before it came out."

 :lol :lol :lol

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #63 on: January 28, 2018, 07:34:02 AM »
 :lol

The only time I saw them. I should have seen them more.  They played 41 and Say Goodbye back to back.  My highlight of the show.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #64 on: January 28, 2018, 07:37:30 AM »
They did that at the 4th of the 5 shows I saw of theirs, which ironically was the one with my aforementioned younger brother, and it was awesome.  I have joked for years that if I see them again, it needs to be with someone new so I can keep the streak of not seeing them with the same person twice alive.  5 shows - two different girlfriends, my younger brother, a cousin and a friend. 

Offline CrimsonE

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #65 on: January 28, 2018, 07:47:18 AM »
Always one-upping me. :facepalm:

"I got into this band in 1998."
"I saw them in 1996."

"I got into this band in 1991."
"I saw them in 1988."

"I bought this album the day it came out!"
"I preordered the album and got it the day before it came out."

 :lol :lol :lol

"I saw the band back when they were playing small clubs:
"I saw the band when they they only played their garage."

"I got the album the day before it came out."
"I got the album before they recorded it."
In the heart of your most solemn barren night
When your souls turn inside out
Have you questioned all the madness you invite?
What your life is all about

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #66 on: January 28, 2018, 07:51:38 AM »
I can't help it if I'm old! :lol
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline TAC

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #67 on: January 28, 2018, 07:53:13 AM »
Always one-upping me. :facepalm:

"I got into this band in 1998."
"I saw them in 1996."

"I got into this band in 1991."
"I saw them in 1988."

"I bought this album the day it came out!"
"I preordered the album and got it the day before it came out."

 :lol :lol :lol

 :rollin
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #68 on: January 29, 2018, 09:47:47 AM »
DMB is now "meh" for me, but I will say this:  "Cortez The  Killer > Jimi Thing (interpolating "For What It's Worth")", with Warren Haynes, from Central Park is TRANSCENDENT.  26 minutes of just bliss. 

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Diehards turning on Dave Matthews Band?
« Reply #69 on: January 29, 2018, 06:42:46 PM »
I have to be in the right mood for one of those 25-minute DMB jams :lol, but that live version of Cortez the Killer is definitely pretty great.