Dave Matthews Band (core member leaves the band on 2/2/18)

[KevShmev]

https://www.antsmarching.org/columns/column.php?columnid=117

Apparently a lot of diehard fans of the band are echoing this sentiment.

[Ben_Jamin]

You mean...they're listening to music.

[Setlist Scotty]

Interesting - hard to believe the band would ignore the situation, but then again, to a degree, we're seeing the same thing with DT (setlists, official bootlegs, etc). What has happened since MP left really is disappointing. But I digress...

[TAC]

Interesting - hard to believe the band would ignore the situation, but then again, to a degree, we're seeing the same thing with DT (setlists, official bootlegs, etc). What has happened since MP left really is disappointing. But I digress...

Until we got to the Lovely Ladies, it could've easily been about DT.

[KevShmev]

Not really.

[jammindude]

I'm backing up Scotty on this one.   Even though it could be argued that the band has been a bit tighter, a lot of the spontaneity has been lost. 

With the exception of The Lovely Ladies, this article could have easily been written about DT....and they should take note. 

[KevShmev]

Or maybe we should not turn this into another DT discussion, since this is, after all, about another band. 

Edit: not trying to be combative here, but just saying, I thought this was pretty interesting to read, and would hate to see this turn into a bitchfest about DT.

[TAC]

It was very interesting. Never been into DMB, but they seemed very fan friendly and somewhat spontaneous. I can see why their fans would be upset.

But you gotta admit, the parallel is there.

[KevShmev]

I can see their point, but on the other hand, they are very, very spoiled. I mean, DMB tours literally every summer, no matter what, so they get a DMB tour every year.  Not sure what other band does that.  Plus, unlike certain other bands, they are mainstream enough to where they have to play a fair amount of "hits" to satisfy the casual fans, of which they have many.  But I think DMB has been mostly on auto-pilot for the last 10+ years, with their only standout being the album they did after LeRoi Moore died.  Not saying someone needs to die obviously, but they need something to kick start their creativity again, since they are obviously lacking in inspiration when it comes to songwriting on most of their records since the 90s.

I will say, too, when I went through my huge DMB phase back in 2000 and 2001, I frequented their forums a lot and was always amazed at how so many fans would be like, "Oh yeah, the version of Jimi Thing from Atlanta on 6-24-1998 is the best," or stuff like that.  So many of them knew each live version so well, from each tour and of each song, it was crazy. 

[tofee35]

I'd say that the article is probably true. But, I think the biggest reason why they don't sell out as much is that their fanbase is older. They aren't gaining new, young fans, and their fanbase has 60 hr a week jobs and families. Maybe it's just me.

[Setlist Scotty]

I'd say that the article is probably true. But, I think the biggest reason why they don't sell out as much is that their fanbase is older. They aren't gaining new, young fans, and their fanbase has 60 hr a week jobs and families. Maybe it's just me.

That could be somewhat true, but then again look at other bands that have done something similar, such as the Grateful Dead. While they were still actively touring, I don't think they ever had a lull in their attendance levels (Wey, correct me if I'm wrong) and that's probably largely due to them continuing to improvise from night to night. Probably is true of many other bands in the jam band genre. But when you start getting formulaic, especially in that scene, I can imagine a large portion of the fanbase being turned off.

Same thing was true for me regarding DT (sorry Shmev) - when I found out there would be zero variation in the set from night to night on the last tour, I decided to only go see one show, even tho I could easily caught a second show. Without the variation, one show was enough.

[Skeever]

Eh, what group of diehard fans don't evolve into whiners? Seems like becoming a big whiner is part of the progression after being a diehard long enough.

[KevShmev]

The Grateful Dead was unique, though, in the sense that they had a lot of fans whose lives centered around traveling to see their shows on a pretty large scale.  DMB or even DT could never say that.

And while the touring every summer thing is great for fans, it can make a lot of fans think, "Eh, I can skip this year and go next year," and you lose fans that way.  I am more of a casual fan now than diehard, and I've been saying, "Eh, maybe next time," about them nearly every year since '04 (the last time I saw them).   The fact that good seats are always hard to get for their concerts is a large reason why I never go, too.  Even when I was in the Warehouse in 2000 and 2001, I only got what I would call great shows for one of the four shows (the other three were all good seats, but not great). 

[bout to crash]

Interesting. I did also make the DT parallel immediately upon reading.

I'm not a big DMB fan and have never seen them live, but from what I've heard their shows used to be a lot of fun/special. I like the song "Halloween," so my friend who's really into them once made me a CD with a bunch of different versions of the song on it. I thought that was so cool- they're all so different. The fact that things are getting stale leads me to believe maybe their hearts aren't really in it anymore. But hey, they're still making a ton of money, I'm sure. I hope that's not their priority, but it kind of makes you wonder.

Speaking of jam bands, Phish is one that definitely keeps their tours exciting (and proves that you CAN indeed do what DMB are not doing). I'm not even hugely into them, but I've seen them a bunch of times now (this summer will be 8 and 9, I think) because they're just so much fun live. They always play three shows on Labor Day weekend here in Denver, and I've gone to two consecutive shows the last few years. The sets are always totally different and such a blast, and they do this all around the country every year. Consquently, they have a very large and devoted fanbase, with many people following them all over the place. The atmosphere at their shows is like no other, and I wouldn't see them otherwise.

The Grateful Dead was unique, though, in the sense that they had a lot of fans whose lives centered around traveling to see their shows on a pretty large scale.  DMB or even DT could never say that.

And while the touring every summer thing is great for fans, it can make a lot of fans think, "Eh, I can skip this year and go next year," and you lose fans that way.  I am more of a casual fan now than diehard, and I've been saying, "Eh, maybe next time," about them nearly every year since '04 (the last time I saw them).   The fact that good seats are always hard to get for their concerts is a large reason why I never go, too.  Even when I was in the Warehouse in 2000 and 2001, I only got what I would call great shows for one of the four shows (the other three were all good seats, but not great). 

What's funny is at a Phish show, the "great" seats here aren't seats at all- you pay extra to be on the "field" vs. the bleachers and spend the night on the floor dancing and actin' a fool for a few hours 

As for the idea of touring every summer thing making a band "lose" fans, I wouldn't agree with that. Sure, it might make some people a bit less anxious to get their tickets, but anyone who REALLY wants to see the band is still going to. I'd be thrilled if all of my favorite bands toured annually, and I'd go to every fucking show I could. Also, that's great for the fans who have stuff come up and can't make it one year. Hey, at least they can look forward to next year vs. not knowing when the fuck it's going to happen again. Sure, the casual fans may pass up a ticket, but not the diehards.

[KevShmev]

True, but you need casual fans to sustain the type of crowds they used to draw (they could always fill up Riverport here, which is like 15-17K, I think).  Diehards alone will not guarantee sell outs on a regular basis.  Not with the prices they still charge.

I do agree thought that their heart may not be in it anymore.  Two of their last three albums sounded totally uninspired, with the other being the aforementioned album that they did right after LeRoi Moore died. 

[bout to crash]

Yeah, I see what you're saying.
I only have the stuff my friend gave me, which includes lots of Halloween and that Big Whiskey album. Of course I know all the radio stuff, but I never liked any of that.

[KevShmev]

Run to YT and listen to the 3-song run of The Stone, Crush and The Dreaming Tree.  The normal version of Crush is far more awesome than the single edit of it would ever indicate, and The Dreaming Tree has a, dare I say, progressive feel to it.

[Big Hath]

Crush

such a great song

[SystematicThought]

Umphrey's McGee is another band that came to mind in terms of a band that keeps you guessing and they always seem to be touring. That and they do a bunch of special things for the fans--Couch Tour, Earphones and Snowcones Tour. Things like that--similar to what DMB was known for.

[hefdaddy42]

One thing to remember is these guys are older now than when they started.  Things change.

Fans never want to hear that.  But it's true.

They most likely have other priorities now than having memorized the entire catalog so that they can have entirely different sets every night.  Frankly, for the most part, that's a young man's game.

The fact that Phish still does that isn't evidence that everybody else could still do it if they would just try harder.  It's just evidence that Phish is awesome.

Same thing with DT (sorry, Kev). 

[Zantera]

I haven't heard DMB, but I think in general a lot of bands are sadly very lazy with their live sets. It's a shame that a lot of bands play it safe, when there is a lot of potential for mixing things up and surprising the fans with awesome songs that haven't been played live in a while.

[Podaar]

I read the whole article in awe of the complete, unyielding, self-centered, sniffling of the writer.

Wow! You would think a "diehard" fan would be more grateful for the years, talent, and dedication that a group like DMB has provided. I mean, this is a pretty hard working group of people...in spite of their success. I'm not a fan of the music, but I still think they've earned a bit of a break on this issue.

One thing to remember is these guys are older now than when they started.  Things change.

Fans never want to hear that.  But it's true.

They most likely have other priorities now than having memorized the entire catalog so that they can have entirely different sets every night.  Frankly, for the most part, that's a young man's game.

 

[KevShmev]

Something to remember, too, is maybe DMB and these other bands *gasp* like these songs they often play live!  Oh, the horror!

And frankly, haven't most rock bands seen somewhat of a decrease in concert ticket sales over the last 10 years (especially as prices go up)?

[Zantera]

I think Mikael Åkerfeldt of Opeth said something great about live shows, and how the shows are for the fans. The albums is something the band makes for themselves, but when they go out on tour it's a balance of pleasing themselves and pleasing the fans. You want people to have a good time, and if they aren't having a good time, then you're not making anybody happy.

[King Postwhore]

At some point, we as fans have to understand that we just have to enjoy what we had. At some point, a band will themselves realize to switch things around. Not at the frequency we once enjoyed but they will get that same feeling we do as fans.

[bout to crash]

Run to YT and listen to the 3-song run of The Stone, Crush and The Dreaming Tree.  The normal version of Crush is far more awesome than the single edit of it would ever indicate, and The Dreaming Tree has a, dare I say, progressive feel to it.

I love The Stone (that was also on the CD my friend made me)- will go listen to the others. Both names I've heard but no idea if I know the songs.

edit: Dreaming Tree was really good. Crush I didn't like. I should've warned you that I generally only like his darker songs. I find a lot of their stuff boring and his voice irritating in certain songs, like that one.

One thing to remember is these guys are older now than when they started.  Things change.

Fans never want to hear that.  But it's true.

They most likely have other priorities now than having memorized the entire catalog so that they can have entirely different sets every night.  Frankly, for the most part, that's a young man's game.

The fact that Phish still does that isn't evidence that everybody else could still do it if they would just try harder.  It's just evidence that Phish is awesome.

Same thing with DT (sorry, Kev).

Oh yeah, I didn't mean that means DMB should be able to do it, I just mean Phish demonstrates that it CAN be done. And they're all around the same age (Trey is now 50!), so it's not necessarily a youth thing. I haven't been going to see Phish for a long time, but from what I understand the only thing that's majorly changed over the years is no more heroin 

[hefdaddy42]

I don't think it's a youth thing, either.  I think it's a Phish thing.  Those guys are amazing.

[Fluffy Lothario]

I used to occasionally browse antsmarching, a DMB forum, some years ago. It was astonishing what a bunch of petty, demanding pieces of shit most of the people there seemed to be. There's a good chunk of their fanbase that, from what I gathered, have been unhappy with all but one or two live sets a year which are deemed interesting enough (mostly on account of featuring Halloween, The Last Stop, or a super rarity), since about 2001.

So this doesn't surprise me in the very slightest.

EDIT: Aaaaand just saw that Kev's post came straight from antsmarching.

[bout to crash]

 

I don't think it's a youth thing, either.  I think it's a Phish thing.  Those guys are amazing.

Yeah, they are pretty badass. I'm looking forward to Labor Day weekend 

[KevShmev]

I used to occasionally browse antsmarching, a DMB forum, some years ago. It was astonishing what a bunch of petty, demanding pieces of shit most of the people there seemed to be. There's a good chunk of their fanbase that, from what I gathered, have been unhappy with all but one or two live sets a year which are deemed interesting enough (mostly on account of featuring Halloween, The Last Stop, or a super rarity), since about 2001.

So this doesn't surprise me in the very slightest.

EDIT: Aaaaand just saw that Kev's post came straight from antsmarching.

I'm not sure if it was the same forum or not, but I visited their main one quite a bit back in '00/'01, and I know exactly what you mean.  As spoiled and demanding as, say, DT and Rush fans can be, DMB fans are 100 times worse. 

Run to YT and listen to the 3-song run of The Stone, Crush and The Dreaming Tree.  The normal version of Crush is far more awesome than the single edit of it would ever indicate, and The Dreaming Tree has a, dare I say, progressive feel to it.

I love The Stone (that was also on the CD my friend made me)- will go listen to the others. Both names I've heard but no idea if I know the songs.

edit: Dreaming Tree was really good. Crush I didn't like. I should've warned you that I generally only like his darker songs. I find a lot of their stuff boring and his voice irritating in certain songs, like that one.

They do "darker songs" very well.  I know a lot of people who find his voice annoying, and I did at first, too, so I understand that sentiment. 

[?]

I haven't heard DMB, but I think in general a lot of bands are sadly very lazy with their live sets. It's a shame that a lot of bands play it safe, when there is a lot of potential for mixing things up and surprising the fans with awesome songs that haven't been played live in a while.

This - I hate it when bands that have been around for over 20 years and have a dozen albums with songs to choose from keep the same 25 or so songs in rotation every year. I know all bands have "hits" and fan favorites that often get played because they are popular, but they should mix things up with some rarely played material from time to time. I passed on seeing Amorphis on the first leg of their last world tour, because I'd seen them play all the old songs that were in the setlist since I'd started going to their shows 4 years earlier. Luckily the second leg was a lot better with a bunch of songs I hadn't heard live yet.

I think DT fans are kind of spoiled because very few bands rotate songs as much as they did on the tours for TOT and Octavarium. That said, doing A and B (maybe even C) sets à la ADTOE tour would be a good compromise IMO - the band's performance is tight and those who only go to one show per tour only miss out on a few songs, while those who do go to multiple gigs don't get the exact same show twice if they see both the A and B set. I have to say it was fun to follow Rush's setlists for the first few shows of the R40 tour to see what songs get swapped out on different nights, even though I'm not seeing them this year.

[KevShmev]

From what I have seen, even with recent set lists, DMB does do a good job of pulling out some rarities every year, like Seek Up already last week. Their fans are just a bunch of spoiled brats.

[King Postwhore]

From what I have seen, even with recent set lists, DMB does do a good job of pulling out some rarities every year, like Seek Up already last week. Their fans are just a bunch of spoiled brats.

Exactly.

[KevShmev]

New album coming soon! Here's hoping that it will be good since it's been six years since the last. I am cautiously optimistic.

[King Postwhore]

Bring it on!!