Author Topic: Scientology Documentary  (Read 1170 times)

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Offline eric42434224

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Scientology Documentary
« on: April 02, 2015, 03:46:48 PM »
Just watched that new HBO documentary on Scientology.
Very good watch.  Anyone see it?
Discuss?
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Offline yeshaberto

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Re: Scientology Documentary
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2015, 07:18:43 PM »
I would like to see it, but I've also become cynical of documentaries tendency to sacrifice integrity for sensationalism.   Did it seem like the critiques were valid?

Offline orcus116

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Re: Scientology Documentary
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2015, 07:55:40 PM »
I just finished it. Being a skeptic of Scientology it did nothing but reinforce any negative opinions but it was good to hear a handful of people, especially ex-higher ups, calling out the whole thing for being complete bullshit. The fact that the IRS caved so quickly was really disappointing. It would be so satisfying if they revoked the tax exempt status and the whole operation just went bankrupt.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Scientology Documentary
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2015, 08:12:37 PM »
I've seen the first hour. Still have the second hour to go. Thus far....pretty much what orcus116 posted.
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Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Scientology Documentary
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2015, 11:50:02 PM »
When I went to the Musician's Institute, there was a church of scientology right next to it.  I don't even remember if I knew what it was at the time.  I have zero interest in ever being a part of it, so I really don't need convincing to stay away.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Scientology Documentary
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2015, 09:00:17 AM »
My ex-mother-in-law used to live not far from the East Coast Headquarters or whatever it is in Clearwater, Florida.

Interesting that they don't tell you that Charles Manson practiced Scientology since the '50's all the way up to and into prison (I don't know if he still does).   It was mentioned several times even during his trial. 

Offline eric42434224

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Re: Scientology Documentary
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2015, 09:07:53 AM »
The level of Manson's involvement is certainly debatable.  Many accounts have him dabbling in it at best.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Scientology Documentary
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2015, 09:32:12 AM »
The level of Manson's involvement is certainly debatable.  Many accounts have him dabbling in it at best.

The Church would have filed a $750,000 law suit over "dabbling"?  I choose to find that implausible.

By his own words (from his autobiography): "With him and another guy I [Manson] got pretty heavy into Dianetics and Scientology. Through this and by other studies, I came out of my state of depression. I was understanding myself better, had a positive outlook on life, and knew how to direct my energies to each day and each task."   Those tasks just happened to involve slaughtering innocent people, but that's ok. 

He claimed to be a "theta clear" (which isn't an exactly correct usage of the terminology) and had achieved and absorbed "all he needed to know".    Bugliosi later wrote that he didn't find any specific references to the Church itself at the time of the infamous murders (i.e. he wasn't acting on behalf of or as a member of the Church) but much of Manson's technique for programming his "family members" can be found in Scientology, and Manson did undergo at least 150 hours of "auditing" (not an insignificant amount of time).    Also, an "e-meter" (a device used by the Church to measure skin conductance; regarded by most as 'pseudoscience') and Scientology literature were found on Spahn Ranch, the Manson family compound, after the Tate murders.   It is circumstantial at best, but Manson was a petty thief and miscreant before he went to prison (again) in 1961, where he found Scientology and, later, an offshoot called the "Process".  It was following that prison stint that his significantly more violent tendencies came forth, and where he started to show the characteristics of the mass murderer he is best known for.

http://www.xenu-directory.net/topics/charlesmanson.html
https://antidianetics.wordpress.com/2010/11/19/charles-manson-celebrity-scientologist/ (extremely slanted)

Offline eric42434224

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Re: Scientology Documentary
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2015, 10:07:01 AM »
The level of Manson's involvement is certainly debatable.  Many accounts have him dabbling in it at best.

The Church would have filed a $750,000 law suit over "dabbling"?  I choose to find that implausible.

By his own words (from his autobiography): "With him and another guy I [Manson] got pretty heavy into Dianetics and Scientology. Through this and by other studies, I came out of my state of depression. I was understanding myself better, had a positive outlook on life, and knew how to direct my energies to each day and each task."   Those tasks just happened to involve slaughtering innocent people, but that's ok. 

He claimed to be a "theta clear" (which isn't an exactly correct usage of the terminology) and had achieved and absorbed "all he needed to know".    Bugliosi later wrote that he didn't find any specific references to the Church itself at the time of the infamous murders (i.e. he wasn't acting on behalf of or as a member of the Church) but much of Manson's technique for programming his "family members" can be found in Scientology, and Manson did undergo at least 150 hours of "auditing" (not an insignificant amount of time).    Also, an "e-meter" (a device used by the Church to measure skin conductance; regarded by most as 'pseudoscience') and Scientology literature were found on Spahn Ranch, the Manson family compound, after the Tate murders.   It is circumstantial at best, but Manson was a petty thief and miscreant before he went to prison (again) in 1961, where he found Scientology and, later, an offshoot called the "Process".  It was following that prison stint that his significantly more violent tendencies came forth, and where he started to show the characteristics of the mass murderer he is best known for.

http://www.xenu-directory.net/topics/charlesmanson.html
https://antidianetics.wordpress.com/2010/11/19/charles-manson-celebrity-scientologist/ (extremely slanted)

Did you ready my post? Accounts vary.  The actual level of his involvement is clearly debatable, as shown by your quotes.
That is probably why Manson was left off the documentary.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Scientology Documentary
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2015, 10:14:22 AM »
The level of Manson's involvement is certainly debatable.  Many accounts have him dabbling in it at best.

The Church would have filed a $750,000 law suit over "dabbling"?  I choose to find that implausible.

By his own words (from his autobiography): "With him and another guy I [Manson] got pretty heavy into Dianetics and Scientology. Through this and by other studies, I came out of my state of depression. I was understanding myself better, had a positive outlook on life, and knew how to direct my energies to each day and each task."   Those tasks just happened to involve slaughtering innocent people, but that's ok. 

He claimed to be a "theta clear" (which isn't an exactly correct usage of the terminology) and had achieved and absorbed "all he needed to know".    Bugliosi later wrote that he didn't find any specific references to the Church itself at the time of the infamous murders (i.e. he wasn't acting on behalf of or as a member of the Church) but much of Manson's technique for programming his "family members" can be found in Scientology, and Manson did undergo at least 150 hours of "auditing" (not an insignificant amount of time).    Also, an "e-meter" (a device used by the Church to measure skin conductance; regarded by most as 'pseudoscience') and Scientology literature were found on Spahn Ranch, the Manson family compound, after the Tate murders.   It is circumstantial at best, but Manson was a petty thief and miscreant before he went to prison (again) in 1961, where he found Scientology and, later, an offshoot called the "Process".  It was following that prison stint that his significantly more violent tendencies came forth, and where he started to show the characteristics of the mass murderer he is best known for.

http://www.xenu-directory.net/topics/charlesmanson.html
https://antidianetics.wordpress.com/2010/11/19/charles-manson-celebrity-scientologist/ (extremely slanted)

Did you ready my post? Accounts vary.  The actual level of his involvement is clearly debatable, as shown by your quotes.
That is probably why Manson was left off the documentary.

Everything is "debatable", and I did the only thing I can do, which is present my side of the debate.   Ignore it, argue with it, agree with it, that's your call.   

I cannot comment about why it was not mentioned in the documentary; I do know that the Church has been particularly aggressive in fighting assertions involving Manson.  Whether that played into the decision is a question that has to be asked of the producers of the doc. 

Offline eric42434224

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Re: Scientology Documentary
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2015, 10:21:38 AM »
The church is extremely aggressive against ANYTHING that is even remotely what they deem not good for the church.  That much is clear by their documented actions.  That they took action against anything Manson related means nothing in regards to his involvement, it is merely SOP for the church.

The 750k lawsuit was against a writer that was writing about an emeter being found at Mansons.  There is nothing about that lawsuit that sheds any light on his actual involvement.  In fact, it is entirely plausible they merely did not want a name like Manson, regardless of involvement levels, to be associated closely with their organization in print.  It speaks to PR, not to Mansons level of involvement.

And yes everything is debatable, but that is not what I was saying.  I was saying that accounts of his involvement vary greatly, and most depend on what involvements and actions actually show true involvement, or are merely actions.  The only thing that is clear, is that it seems incredibly difficult to guage his true and actual level of involvement and belief from the varying accounts, including his own.  And to draw a conclusion would be to do so with little to no real information.  I suspect that is why it was left off the documentary....as it was difficult to impossible to determine the actual depth of his involvement, and more importantly, that his involvement had nothing to do with the story of the church.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 11:49:11 AM by eric42434224 »
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Scientology Documentary
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2015, 12:08:48 PM »
I haven't seen the doc yet, but I want to.
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Scientology Documentary
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2015, 02:23:58 PM »
I saw the documentary a few nights ago.  I enjoyed it.  I thought it was pretty good.  Didn't really tell us anything new.






Offline Cable

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Re: Scientology Documentary
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2015, 08:35:09 PM »
Does anyone know anyone who practices the faith? I feel like all I ever hear about are those in the limelight. I have yet to encounter anyone involved in it. My limited knowledge guess is the advanced information of the faith goes to those who give a lot, and thus part of the draw?

I know next to nothing about Freemasonry, but feel many non-famous people are involved there. I know the comparisons are wildly off, but advancing in Scientology prestige and Freemasonry seems to be based on money to me as an outsider.  ???
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Scientology Documentary
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2015, 07:04:31 AM »
Does anyone know anyone who practices the faith? I feel like all I ever hear about are those in the limelight. I have yet to encounter anyone involved in it. My limited knowledge guess is the advanced information of the faith goes to those who give a lot, and thus part of the draw?
I do not. 

I know next to nothing about Freemasonry, but feel many non-famous people are involved there. I know the comparisons are wildly off, but advancing in Scientology prestige and Freemasonry seems to be based on money to me as an outsider.  ???
Yes, the comparisons are wildly off.

Masons are everywhere, and from all income brackets.  Hell, I live in basically a backwater area, and I know of at least two Masonic "temples" in my county alone.
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Offline Cedar redaC

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Re: Scientology Documentary
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2015, 07:10:46 AM »
Does anyone know anyone who practices the faith? I feel like all I ever hear about are those in the limelight. I have yet to encounter anyone involved in it. My limited knowledge guess is the advanced information of the faith goes to those who give a lot, and thus part of the draw?

I knew a guy who claimed to be at least part scientologist, but my knowledge of the religion is not enough to judge if he actually practiced it. This same guy had rather severe schizophrenia, so I don't how closely his beliefs tied to scientology.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Scientology Documentary
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2015, 08:47:52 AM »
To my knowledge, there is no such thing as "part scientologist".  You're all in, or you're all out.
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Offline Cedar redaC

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Re: Scientology Documentary
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2015, 10:41:25 AM »
Hence the schizophrenia.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Scientology Documentary
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2015, 11:39:05 AM »
Hence the schizophrenia.
Yeah, he's all kinds of out.
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Offline Cedar redaC

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Re: Scientology Documentary
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2015, 11:33:06 PM »
Ah, but the stories he could tell. His beliefs involved a system of 12 planets, of which earth was the 7th. Also, he believed that Jesus Christ and Jesus of Nazareth were two separate people. I could go on, but some things simply have to be experienced to be truly appreciated.
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Re: Scientology Documentary
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2016, 01:32:00 PM »
So apparently Louis Theroux is doing his own documentary simply called My Scientology Movie:

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/06/tribeca-louis-theroux-scientology

No one like Louis can be so calm during scenes like that!  :lol Can't wait for this!
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