Author Topic: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once  (Read 15109 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 21090
  • Gender: Male
  • Just a decent, normal metal-head fellow
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #105 on: September 08, 2015, 04:10:07 PM »
Thinking about it now, it seems like a lot of fucking work. Oh well, heaps of time to prepare.

I didn't sign up for a while because I was worried about the time commitment. But my turn came up during the perfect window between our family vacation and before my kids' school years started. I was still working my summer schedule.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Offline wolfking

  • Posts: 23753
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #106 on: September 08, 2015, 04:11:17 PM »
Thinking about it now, it seems like a lot of fucking work. Oh well, heaps of time to prepare.

I didn't sign up for a while because I was worried about the time commitment. But my turn came up during the perfect window between our family vacation and before my kids' school years started. I was still working my summer schedule.

Yeah, if I can time it for the period I mentioned, should work out well, and a welcome distraction after a hectic work period.

Offline Tyrias

  • Posts: 780
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #107 on: September 09, 2015, 06:06:21 AM »
I'd like to sign up for a version 2 of my Roulette. With how short the list si right now, I'm hoping it will fall right into a 2-month time window where I have nothing to do.

Offline splent

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 9035
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident music educator/conductor
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #108 on: September 10, 2015, 07:10:51 PM »
I'm in for version 1.
My daughter's portrait was replaced for this.

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 21090
  • Gender: Male
  • Just a decent, normal metal-head fellow
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #109 on: September 14, 2015, 07:06:38 PM »
Add jjrock88 to the list.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Offline Bolsters

  • Aphelion
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4320
  • Gender: Male
  • I exist where access was denied
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #110 on: September 14, 2015, 07:36:15 PM »
I'll wait for him to confirm before I do that.

Offline jingle.boy

  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 18236
  • Gender: Male
  • The changing of the worrd is inevitabre!!!
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #111 on: September 14, 2015, 07:53:31 PM »
I'll wait for him to confirm before I do that.

Peer pressure will bring him to his knees.
Dream Theater Forums: Expanding musical tastes and shrinking wallets since 2009.
Note to forum, jingle is usually right.
I'm actually disappointed he's not Kim Jong-Il

Offline jjrock88

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9453
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #112 on: September 14, 2015, 08:05:37 PM »
Count me in

Offline jingle.boy

  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 18236
  • Gender: Male
  • The changing of the worrd is inevitabre!!!
Dream Theater Forums: Expanding musical tastes and shrinking wallets since 2009.
Note to forum, jingle is usually right.
I'm actually disappointed he's not Kim Jong-Il

Offline jjrock88

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9453
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #114 on: September 14, 2015, 09:03:34 PM »
Chad you win me over every time with the Seinfeld gif

Offline jingle.boy

  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 18236
  • Gender: Male
  • The changing of the worrd is inevitabre!!!
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #115 on: September 14, 2015, 09:27:11 PM »
Chad you win me over every time with the Seinfeld gif



All to easy.
Dream Theater Forums: Expanding musical tastes and shrinking wallets since 2009.
Note to forum, jingle is usually right.
I'm actually disappointed he's not Kim Jong-Il

Offline wolfking

  • Posts: 23753
  • Gender: Male

Offline Bolsters

  • Aphelion
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4320
  • Gender: Male
  • I exist where access was denied
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #117 on: September 15, 2015, 09:11:29 PM »
So while I was in bed last night not sleeping (), I had a crazy idea that I want to run by you guys.


Annual Roulette Championships.


Here's what I've got so far:
  • Starting at the end of each year and running into the beginning of the next, there would be a Championship roulette for that year.
  • Anyone who won a roulette that ended in the appropriate year (even if the roulette began in the previous year) would be eligible to participate in the Championship.
  • Rather than being hosted by a particular person, the Championship roulette would have a panel of judges (of an undetermined number) to score the submitted songs.
  • Each contestants' submission would be anonymous. Someone (such as myself) would receive the songs and pass them onto the judges without names. The judges would not know who submitted each song until the results were posted.
  • The judges could also potentially be anonymous, sending their results to me to post. The contestants would not know who the judges were until the end of the roulette.
  • Contestants would be eliminated every few rounds, and the last 2-3 would play in the finals (another 2-3 rounds) to determine that year's Roulette Champion.
  • Contestants would not be allowed to send any of the songs they sent in roulettes that year. This could also possibly extend to artists.
  • The banned artist list for the Championship would be collated from the personal banned lists of the judges. Any artist that appears on the banned list of at least half of the judges would be banned.


It's a bit lacking at the moment, but I think it could work.

Offline splent

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 9035
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident music educator/conductor
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #118 on: September 15, 2015, 09:33:37 PM »
I want to be a judge if that happens. I don't think I would win enough roulettes before then lol.
My daughter's portrait was replaced for this.

Offline jingle.boy

  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 18236
  • Gender: Male
  • The changing of the worrd is inevitabre!!!
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #119 on: September 15, 2015, 09:35:14 PM »
Theoretically, this would be cool.  Given the variety of tastes here at DTF, getting a group of people to judge songs would result in a very wide and varied scoring.  For instance, my tastes vs Parama; Shadow Ninja's vs Kingshmeglands.... varied indeed.  While an interesting concept, I would liken this to a contest between the Super Bowl champs vs the NBA Champs vs UEFA League champs etc...  While we're all playing the same kind of game here, roulettes (based on the tastes of the host) can be a very different sport.

I'd be in for it... structuring of it to make it meaningful and fun for all would be one of the biggest challenges I think.
Dream Theater Forums: Expanding musical tastes and shrinking wallets since 2009.
Note to forum, jingle is usually right.
I'm actually disappointed he's not Kim Jong-Il

Offline Sacul

  • Music elitist, stuff reader, video game addict.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 6305
  • Gender: Male
  • Make it controversial!
    • Prog Talk Admin
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #120 on: September 15, 2015, 09:45:58 PM »
Annual Roulette Championships.


Here's what I've got so far:
  • Starting at the end of each year and running into the beginning of the next, there would be a Championship roulette for that year.
  • Anyone who won a roulette that ended in the appropriate year (even if the roulette began in the previous year) would be eligible to participate in the Championship.
  • Rather than being hosted by a particular person, the Championship roulette would have a panel of judges (of an undetermined number) to score the submitted songs.
  • Each contestants' submission would be anonymous. Someone (such as myself) would receive the songs and pass them onto the judges without names. The judges would not know who submitted each song until the results were posted.
  • The judges could also potentially be anonymous, sending their results to me to post. The contestants would not know who the judges were until the end of the roulette.
  • Contestants would be eliminated every few rounds, and the last 2-3 would play in the finals (another 2-3 rounds) to determine that year's Roulette Champion.
  • Contestants would not be allowed to send any of the songs they sent in roulettes that year. This could also possibly extend to artists.
  • The banned artist list for the Championship would be collated from the personal banned lists of the judges. Any artist that appears on the banned list of at least half of the judges would be banned.

It's a bit lacking at the moment, but I think it could work.
I really like most of it - some great ideas here, but strongly disagree with the ones in bold. Would love to participate tho  :metal

Offline Bolsters

  • Aphelion
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4320
  • Gender: Male
  • I exist where access was denied
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #121 on: September 15, 2015, 09:47:55 PM »
I would definitely select judges carefully so that a wide variety of tastes were present on the panel, that's for sure. Winning would therefore be about either sending songs with a wide crossover appeal, or sending a variety of songs that each appeal to different judges. It'd be tough, but it should be.

Anonymous judges is a bad idea admittedly, as the contestants would no longer be able to tailor their submissions to their tastes, and scoring well would depend too much upon luck. With the judges known from the beginning it would be possible to make strategic choices more easily.

I really have no idea myself if this could work, but it's interesting to think about.

Offline Parama

  • Roulette Bandit
  • Posts: 10577
  • EP Enthusiast
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #122 on: September 15, 2015, 11:19:28 PM »
i was intending to do something like an "open roulette" but then my actual roulette came up so i had to put that on the backburner, basically the idea would be you get a decent number of people all participating and they all send a song, and then everybody who sent also judges the songs and picks their favorites to earn points. ofc you can't give your own entry points. i will still probably try this at some point because it can get everyone involved in finding new stuff but it'd have to move a lot slower than a standard roulette
Founder of Hangmanen
The Parama Roulette v1.5
I got a last.fm again, I guess
hae.exe now loading... please wait

Online bl5150

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 6612
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #123 on: September 15, 2015, 11:26:38 PM »
You had better hurry up if you want Worst Open Roulette 2015 Parama  ;D
"I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle." - DLR

Offline Parama

  • Roulette Bandit
  • Posts: 10577
  • EP Enthusiast
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #124 on: September 15, 2015, 11:32:35 PM »
i'll be done by the end of october we'll have two months to try it out twice before the end of the year
Founder of Hangmanen
The Parama Roulette v1.5
I got a last.fm again, I guess
hae.exe now loading... please wait

Offline 425

  • Posts: 4014
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #125 on: September 15, 2015, 11:34:21 PM »
I think this is a good concept and would like to see it happen. I would be more than willing to serve as a judge if for some reason you wanted some lunatic like me. I guess the judges would have to be people who didn't win a roulette that year, so if I don't win anything (likely) you might need me? I don't know, but I'd be willing to do it. A few points of inquiry/contention with the framework you've set out there:


  • The judges could also potentially be anonymous, sending their results to me to post. The contestants would not know who the judges were until the end of the roulette.

I don't think there should be anonymous judges. While having anonymous judges sounds like an interesting idea, it eliminates the banter between judge and participant which is, in my opinion, a lot of the fun of the roulette contestants. And if there are enough judges with a totally diverse set of tastes, knowing who the judges are wouldn't help that much, because even if you send something the one judge loves, the other ones may hate it.

  • Contestants would not be allowed to send any of the songs they sent in roulettes that year. This could also possibly extend to artists.

Not being allowed to send any songs that you've already sent is an interesting enough wrinkle. I think that's fair enough and it keeps there from being a roulette chalk full of Where Is Now and Meteorites and so on.

But I do not think you should prohibit contestants from sending artists that they've already sent. I think that's too crippling. Consider that most of the people are going to have won roulettes in 2015 (and thus be participants in the championship) are playing in a whole lot of roulettes—it's just sheer numbers. If somebody has played in maybe 10 or 12 roulettes in 2015, they might have made as many as 100 entries. Now, a lot of those could well be repeats, but considering that they're probably tailoring their submissions for the host, that's still a lot of artists that you're taking away from people. I think banning individual songs is fair as a fun little twist, banning artists is not because you'll wipe out people's library.

And personally, if by some miracle I win a roulette and end up as a participant in this, I'm pretty sure I would literally not be able to play if I was banned from using artists that I had used in previous roulettes. My library is simply too small and too DTF-inspired for me to play with such a rule in place. I'd have a hard enough time poking holes in a banned list anyway.

  • The banned artist list for the Championship would be collated from the personal banned lists of the judges. Any artist that appears on the banned list of at least half of the judges would be banned.

This is more of a question. I completely agree with this way of making a banned list, but what is a judge to do if a song comes in that they know pretty well and the other judges don't? Would a judge who already knows a song be asked to recuse him/herself from the scoring, or just give the score that (s)he would ordinarily give that song? And what ramifications do we think that either of these options would have on the fairness of the scoring?

All these concerns said, I think this is a great idea and I strongly believe that you should do it. I just wanted to voice my opinion and questions on those. Hopefully you iron out the kinks and get this thing off the ground come January. And again, assuming I don't win anything, I would be more than happy to be a judge if you want me.

Offline Bolsters

  • Aphelion
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4320
  • Gender: Male
  • I exist where access was denied
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #126 on: September 16, 2015, 12:18:07 AM »
I don't think there should be anonymous judges. While having anonymous judges sounds like an interesting idea, it eliminates the banter between judge and participant which is, in my opinion, a lot of the fun of the roulette contestants. And if there are enough judges with a totally diverse set of tastes, knowing who the judges are wouldn't help that much, because even if you send something the one judge loves, the other ones may hate it.
We've established already that this was the worst suggestion ever. :P

This is more of a question. I completely agree with this way of making a banned list, but what is a judge to do if a song comes in that they know pretty well and the other judges don't? Would a judge who already knows a song be asked to recuse him/herself from the scoring, or just give the score that (s)he would ordinarily give that song? And what ramifications do we think that either of these options would have on the fairness of the scoring?
I think this is one of the more difficult questions.

On one hand, it's a problem because people could see gaps in the banned list and send things they know are favourites of the other judges who probably did ban it. For example if Chad were a judge he would undoubtedly ban Meat Loaf because Bat Out Of Hell is a top 10 album for him, but if less than half of the judges chose to ban Meat Loaf, someone could easily just send a song from Bat Out Of Hell just to get a high score from Chad. I certainly would not want to see this happen. On the other hand, we can't just add all the banned lists together, because it would be a gigantic list and it would be difficult/impossible for anyone to find anything to send.

Recusing is an interesting idea, but I fear it will skew the scoring.

An idea I had regarding tastes of the judges - each judge could "host" a certain number of rounds. All of the judges will still listen to and rate the songs sent for other judges' rounds, but the scoring would be weighted. For example if there are three judges and it is one of judge A's rounds, he would score the songs out of 15 while judges B and C scored out of 5, for a total of 25. This allows people to create a strategy where they aim songs at a particular judge and the bulk of their score will depend on that success, but also allows bonus points of sort for simultaneously impressing the other judges. The judges could even choose their own themes if they wish.

Perhaps during these rounds, the full banned list of that judge is in play (along with the combined list) so as to avoid people getting really high scores for sending songs the judges know? Though people could still get 5/5 from at least one other judge by sending something they love, so it doesn't completely remove the issue.


Edit: Or, we could give the judges a certain number of blackballs. So using my example above, if someone sent a Bat Out Of Hell song because Meat Loaf wasn't banned, Chad could blackball it because it's from one of his favourite albums.

Offline Bolsters

  • Aphelion
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4320
  • Gender: Male
  • I exist where access was denied
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #127 on: September 16, 2015, 01:02:36 AM »
So that we don't continue to clutter this thread and so that we can get some more discussion going (I think a lot of people ignore this thread), I have opened a discussion thread for us to talk about any ideas relating to this.

http://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=44595.0

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

  • Heir Transparent
  • Posts: 6068
  • Gender: Male
  • Transcribing Existence Rivets
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #128 on: September 16, 2015, 05:03:58 PM »
Final results posted!
if the flow checks out and your rhymes are dope enough then the police start unholstering their guns

Offline splent

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 9035
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident music educator/conductor
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #129 on: September 17, 2015, 01:03:54 PM »
When does the next person start their roulette
My daughter's portrait was replaced for this.

Offline jingle.boy

  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 18236
  • Gender: Male
  • The changing of the worrd is inevitabre!!!
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #130 on: September 17, 2015, 01:06:47 PM »
We typically run three at a time so things don't get too crowded, or overwhelming for participants.  There's only about 30 (I'd guess) people that regularly play/follow these, so any more than three gets a little challenging.  The "next" person was Brent, and he's started already - typically the 'next' person starts when the final round of the 'finishing' person is in progress, and the only thing left to do is post final results.
Dream Theater Forums: Expanding musical tastes and shrinking wallets since 2009.
Note to forum, jingle is usually right.
I'm actually disappointed he's not Kim Jong-Il

Offline jjrock88

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9453
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #131 on: September 17, 2015, 02:09:59 PM »
I think Splent is pumped up for his roulette!!

Offline jingle.boy

  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 18236
  • Gender: Male
  • The changing of the worrd is inevitabre!!!
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #132 on: September 17, 2015, 02:16:08 PM »
I think Splent is pumped up for his roulette!!

He's caught the bug alright.
Dream Theater Forums: Expanding musical tastes and shrinking wallets since 2009.
Note to forum, jingle is usually right.
I'm actually disappointed he's not Kim Jong-Il

Offline splent

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 9035
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident music educator/conductor
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #133 on: September 17, 2015, 09:27:29 PM »
I think Splent is pumped up for his roulette!!

He's caught the bug alright.

 :hat
My daughter's portrait was replaced for this.

Offline Bolsters

  • Aphelion
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4320
  • Gender: Male
  • I exist where access was denied
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #134 on: September 17, 2015, 09:49:59 PM »
When does the next person start their roulette
When one of the three currently running roulettes enters its final round, I will give the next person on the list the go-ahead to start.

Offline Tom Bombadil

  • Posts: 1649
  • Gender: Male
  • We Do Not Sow
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #135 on: September 27, 2015, 07:08:15 PM »
I'm good to go now. Could you please put me back on the normal list or however it works.

Offline Bolsters

  • Aphelion
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4320
  • Gender: Male
  • I exist where access was denied
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #136 on: September 27, 2015, 10:14:08 PM »
I'm good to go now. Could you please put me back on the normal list or however it works.
I'll let you know when you can start. It'll be when one of the three current roulettes goes into their final round.

Offline splent

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 9035
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident music educator/conductor
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #137 on: September 28, 2015, 10:44:55 AM »
Hey how long do these usually take? I am hoping to start mine sometime in mid-December.  I hope I'm not just dreaming lol
My daughter's portrait was replaced for this.

Offline Nekov

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 7877
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #138 on: September 28, 2015, 11:09:05 AM »
Hey how long do these usually take? I am hoping to start mine sometime in mid-December.  I hope I'm not just dreaming lol

It's more likely for Tool to release an album in that period that all the roulettes ahead of you end mid December  :lol. The average time for these is somewhere around 2 months.
When Ginobili gets hot, I get hot in my pants. 

Offline jingle.boy

  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 18236
  • Gender: Male
  • The changing of the worrd is inevitabre!!!
Re: The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once
« Reply #139 on: September 28, 2015, 11:09:21 AM »
Hey how long do these usually take? I am hoping to start mine sometime in mid-December.  I hope I'm not just dreaming lol

Typically, 2 months on average.  If people go about a week/round, and run 8-10 rounds, that's a good ball-park.  Some go faster, some slower.
Dream Theater Forums: Expanding musical tastes and shrinking wallets since 2009.
Note to forum, jingle is usually right.
I'm actually disappointed he's not Kim Jong-Il