Ytsejam official bootlegs

[Setlist Scotty]

I'm with Bosk - aside from a few minor changes, the songs on FII are better without Kevin Shirley's changes.

[cramx3]

I personally don't think the songs that were changed are rather good with or without changes.  I just don't think those songs were strong to begin with.  I guess I would chose the album versions, but that may only be due to those are the ones I familiarized myself with first and it wasn't until much later I discovered the demos.

[bosk1]

I personally don't think the songs that were changed are rather good with or without changes.  I just don't think those songs were strong to begin with.  I guess I would chose the album versions, but that may only be due to those are the ones I familiarized myself with first and it wasn't until much later I discovered the demos.

Well, the only ones that weren't really touched at all were New Millenium, Peruvian Skies, Just Let Me Breathe, and Trial of Tears, so I'm not sure whether you are saying you don't really care for the rest of the album or not.

I dunno.  Here is how I feel about the songs that made it to the album:

New Millenium:  No change, so no comment.  I like the song though.

You Not Me:  I don't like it, like most of the fanbase, but the original You Or Me was better, IMO.  I would not mind it if they ever played YOR at a show I were to attend.

Peruvian Skies:  No change.

Hollow Years:  I don't really care for any version of the song, so no comment.

Burning My Soul:  For the longest time, I was in favor of the changes.  I don't really care for the song much, and I like Hell's Kitchen even less.  But at least Hell's Kitchen was a nice intro to LiTS.  But I actually think I prefer the demo version now that I am hearing it again for the first time in a long time.  If nothing else, not hearing the effects that were added to the chorus background vocal is enough to prefer the original.

Hell's Kitchen:  See above.  Yeah, it makes the song disjointed.  But welcome to DT!    It is a nice interlude in the song, actually.

Lines In The Sand:  Mixed feelings.  The added section is neat.  But I like the chorus arrangement better on the final version.  I guess this one is a push.

Take Away My Pain:  I love both versions, but the demo version is superior.

Just Let Me Breathe:  No change; no comment.

Anna Lee:  I kinda like the demo version better.

Trial of Tears:  No change; no comment.

[rumborak]

Lotta talk about Charlie - anybody have any idea what he's up to these days?

Being crazy.

On Reddit.

[Madman Shepherd]

The I&W demos indicate that the melodies were written before any one vocalist was playing with the band.  Even with different interpretations of each of the singers they played with (Hendricks, Cintron, Arch, Stone), the melodies maintained all of the same foundation and the variations were minimal to moderate at most.  MP even went so far as to sing on a demo track of at least one song (HTF) which he featured on his tweetsecret account.  There was also Wither and Honor Thy Father with JP and MP on vocals respectively but I don't know if they ever confirmed that those were made solely as guide tracks for James or if they did it mainly for something special to put as bonus tracks for the single. 

I can say confidently that yes, the Wither and TBoT tracks with JP's and MP's vocals were guide tracks, and not something to use as bonus tracks. If I'm not mistaken, on the first CD Making of SFaM, for TSCO, part of JP's guide vocal is on there too.

That is pretty interesting too because Wither and TBoT were relatively produced guide tracks.  TSCO was just John in the studio trying his best to sing the melodies he obviously couldn't sing with his range.

I bring that up because if it is just John in the studio laying down the roughest of guiding vocals, that leaves more room for James to improvise even if the final product remained pretty similar.  On BC&SL, if they did it the way of the single tracks, that leaves less room for improvising which also is interesting considering James had the least input on that album. 

Oh, and I wayyyyy prefer the Kevin Shirley version of FII although I'm still glad to have the demos to switch things up occasionally. 

[Prog Snob]

I'm with Bosk - aside from a few minor changes, the songs on FII are better without Kevin Shirley's changes.

I'm with you and Bosk on this one.  I came across some old boot called The Infinite Demos and realized that it was basically what MP released through YJR. I think there are many instances on the old version that outshine the finished product. I still think that songs like TWIUTB and RTK should have been on the CD instead of You Or Me/You Not Me and BMS.

[Nick]

I've always found New Millennium to be a Frankenstein's monster of bad disjointed ideas, and feel had it been replaced with Raise the Knife the album would improve substantially.

[cramx3]

I personally don't think the songs that were changed are rather good with or without changes.  I just don't think those songs were strong to begin with.  I guess I would chose the album versions, but that may only be due to those are the ones I familiarized myself with first and it wasn't until much later I discovered the demos.

Well, the only ones that weren't really touched at all were New Millenium, Peruvian Skies, Just Let Me Breathe, and Trial of Tears, so I'm not sure whether you are saying you don't really care for the rest of the album or not.

I dunno.  Here is how I feel about the songs that made it to the album:

New Millenium:  No change, so no comment.  I like the song though.

You Not Me:  I don't like it, like most of the fanbase, but the original You Or Me was better, IMO.  I would not mind it if they ever played YOR at a show I were to attend.

Peruvian Skies:  No change.

Hollow Years:  I don't really care for any version of the song, so no comment.

Burning My Soul:  For the longest time, I was in favor of the changes.  I don't really care for the song much, and I like Hell's Kitchen even less.  But at least Hell's Kitchen was a nice intro to LiTS.  But I actually think I prefer the demo version now that I am hearing it again for the first time in a long time.  If nothing else, not hearing the effects that were added to the chorus background vocal is enough to prefer the original.

Hell's Kitchen:  See above.  Yeah, it makes the song disjointed.  But welcome to DT!    It is a nice interlude in the song, actually.

Lines In The Sand:  Mixed feelings.  The added section is neat.  But I like the chorus arrangement better on the final version.  I guess this one is a push.

Take Away My Pain:  I love both versions, but the demo version is superior.

Just Let Me Breathe:  No change; no comment.

Anna Lee:  I kinda like the demo version better.

Trial of Tears:  No change; no comment.

Its my least favorite besides WDADU (although if I could take WDADRU, it would rank above FII) and the songs untouched are the best on the album except Id take Anna Lee and Hell's Kitchen over New Millenium.  And actually, Hollow Years demo is better and I will add that to my list of songs I really like on the album so that would be my exception.

[Scorpion]

I love Falling Into Infinity, but I can totally get why not everyone does.

[cramx3]

I dont dislike it though, it just ranks very low on DT albums for me.  I find it an enjoyable album in terms of overall music.

[Scorpion]

For me, it only has one song that I am indifferent to, and the rest range from very good to mindblowingly awesome, and that's a pretty good batting average considering DT albums. While I could do without You Not Me, it's also not really offensive and not terrible, and the rest is 1. very good on the whole and 2. amazingly varied.

Plus, any album that has Lines in the Sand and Trial of Tears is a win in my book. Two of my favourite DT songs of all time.

[BlobVanDam]

For me, it only has one song that I am indifferent to, and the rest range from very good to mindblowingly awesome, and that's a pretty good batting average considering DT albums. While I could do without You Not Me, it's also not really offensive and not terrible, and the rest is 1. very good on the whole and 2. amazingly varied.

Plus, any album that has Lines in the Sand and Trial of Tears is a win in my book. Two of my favourite DT songs of all time.

Agreed entirely. I don't even hate YNM, it's just a thoroughly average song in an important spot on the album. Aside from that, I've grown to love it all, even TAMP, which I used to hate.

Most of the changes made from the demos were definitely for the better, or at best equal. It would have been nice to have the extra verse of LITS, but it didn't hurt the song to excise it. That's about it.

[Scorpion]

The one thing that I really miss is the extra verse on TAMP, but in general, I agree with you.

[puppyonacid]

TAMP sounds way more focused and tighter on the album. In fact all the songs do. What I would say though is that I don't understand how songs like Hollow Years, You Not Me and Burning My Soul made it on to the album and Raise the Knife didn't.

I've never understood how disliked New Millennium is either. It's a great track! It's synthy yet has an industrial edge that I wish DT would have explored more. And the instrumental section is pretty much one of the grooviest things DT has ever recorded.

[BlobVanDam]

RTK is fine and all, but it's kinda average for a song of that length imo, and feels redundant when you already have two of DT's best songs of that length on there. I feel like ditching other songs to include it really would have hurt the diversity of the album too. Hollow Years is a much better song anyways.

[bosk1]

TAMP sounds way more focused and tighter on the album. In fact all the songs do.

Well, yes, but I think that is just a function of rough demo vs. complete, polished album track. 

[comment]

I haven't listened to these for awhile.  My favorite bootleg is Number of The Beast and normally I'll just focus on that track.  That song has great rhythm and guitar parts.  I'll haft to revisit them now, but the ones I listen to most are Dark Side, Puppets and # of the Beast.

As far as I'm concerned, JL is the only voice.  I really can't listen to the others.