Author Topic: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls  (Read 81866 times)

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Offline sneakyblueberry

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #175 on: March 25, 2015, 09:26:10 PM »
I think Maiden at that time were trying to come off as edgy and whatever but really it was just cheese dressed up in leather.  Stuff like Holy Smoke, BYD, Tailgunner et al.  Haven't like Bring Your Daughter... since I was like, 10 and thought it was cool. 

The only thing I like about Holy Smoke is the video, because its so stupid funny.

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #176 on: March 26, 2015, 01:13:40 AM »
Have you guys ever seen this? Freaking hilarious attempt at singing Aces High.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkTRV7vz06k

:metal CHULE!

The best part is the poor bastard sitting in front of him, and trying not to completely lose it the entire time he's "singing".
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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #177 on: March 26, 2015, 05:24:34 AM »
I think Maiden at that time were trying to come off as edgy and whatever but really it was just cheese dressed up in leather.  Stuff like Holy Smoke, BYD, Tailgunner et al.  Haven't like Bring Your Daughter... since I was like, 10 and thought it was cool. 

The only thing I like about Holy Smoke is the video, because its so stupid funny.
They were going for a stripped down back to basics sound, which was followed up by their stripped down stage show for that tour. Similar to the approach QR did with HITNF, but like QR, these songs were so sub par it was like getting an album's worth of B Sides.
BYD is so horrible, I cannot believe Steve wanted it for a Maiden album. It should have been left in the obscurity of the Freddie Kruger soundtrack.

And remember, there was a long hiatus between No Prayer and Seventh Son. That's what makes the lack of good material even more disappointing. I vividly remember getting the single to Holy Smoke. I was so excited to finally have new Maiden. We put it on, and I literally thought we played the wrong side. Kill Me Ce Soir was 10 times better.
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Offline 425

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #178 on: March 26, 2015, 09:09:47 AM »
BYD is so horrible, I cannot believe Steve wanted it for a Maiden album. It should have been left in the obscurity of the Freddie Kruger soundtrack.

And then they went ahead and put it on the "best of 1990-2010" collection From Fear to Eternity. I remember that because that collection was my introduction to Maiden and I remember my friend having to tell me "hey, just so you know, there's this one song on there that's really bad."
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Offline cramx3

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #179 on: March 26, 2015, 09:11:45 AM »
BYD is so horrible, I cannot believe Steve wanted it for a Maiden album. It should have been left in the obscurity of the Freddie Kruger soundtrack.

And then they went ahead and put it on the "best of 1990-2010" collection From Fear to Eternity. I remember that because that collection was my introduction to Maiden and I remember my friend having to tell me "hey, just so you know, there's this one song on there that's really bad."

Isnt it also their only #1 hit song or something? lol it really is terrible and incredibly cheesey.

Offline 425

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #180 on: March 26, 2015, 09:12:52 AM »
Yeah, it is. I think they released it on Christmas or something so that it would have very little competition. Merry Christmas, here's a song called "Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter."
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Offline cramx3

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #181 on: March 26, 2015, 09:24:34 AM »
lol wasnt aware of that but thats actually is pretty awesome.   :metal

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #182 on: March 26, 2015, 10:06:03 AM »
I remember when I first became aware of Iron Maiden as a kid, and started getting into their music, Bring Your Daughter had this huge reputation over here. Like, people on the radio talked about the song as if it was Run to the Hills or Number of the Beast levels of hit material. I was never huge on it back then, and in retrospect, as a single, I don't care for it now. Just another proof that 90's Maiden just wasn't any good. Sure, maybe a handful of 5 songs spread out on 4 albums that were great, but when a song like Bring Your Daughter is supposedly hit material, that kinda says a lot, because previous Maiden singles were great.

90's Maiden pales not only to their 80's and 00's effort, but I'd say Bruce Dickinson had a very good run of albums in his solo career, albums that are on par with some of Maiden's best. Chemical Wedding gets a lot of love, personally I was huge into Skunkworks and also Tattooed Millionaire. Accident of Birth was another really good one, and I will always have a soft spot for Tyranny of Souls (which came later), because it was my first solo album of his, and I still hold that one really high. Navigate the Seas of the Sun is a personal favorite that I would put up there in my top10 Maiden/BD songs, also a few other great ones like Abduction, River of no Return and Kill Devil Hill. Great album.

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #183 on: March 26, 2015, 10:18:47 AM »
90's Maiden pales not only to their 80's and 00's effort, but I'd say Bruce Dickinson had a very good run of albums in his solo career, albums that are on par with some of Maiden's best. Chemical Wedding gets a lot of love, personally I was huge into Skunkworks and also Tattooed Millionaire. Accident of Birth was another really good one, and I will always have a soft spot for Tyranny of Souls (which came later), because it was my first solo album of his, and I still hold that one really high. Navigate the Seas of the Sun is a personal favorite that I would put up there in my top10 Maiden/BD songs, also a few other great ones like Abduction, River of no Return and Kill Devil Hill. Great album.

I agree with what you say about Bruce's solo work.  I think his awesomeness in solo work that was actually better than what IM were putting out in the 90s might have played a large role in getting him and Adrian back in the band... those guys were creating amazing music.

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #184 on: March 26, 2015, 03:01:35 PM »
For years I thought BYD was stupid, and for years I didn't listen to it, but it's really not that bad. It's like You Not Me. Same with Holy Smoke. Harmless.

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #185 on: March 26, 2015, 03:33:58 PM »
It is a bit of a "fun" song if that means anything.  Its just not a piece of music I would ever share with anyone who was interested in listening to IM which is odd because a lot of times a band's single is something you would show to someone since its usually a more acceptable and easy to digest track as well as often a good one.

Offline sneakyblueberry

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #186 on: March 26, 2015, 04:07:57 PM »
90's Maiden pales not only to their 80's and 00's effort, but I'd say Bruce Dickinson had a very good run of albums in his solo career, albums that are on par with some of Maiden's best. Chemical Wedding gets a lot of love, personally I was huge into Skunkworks and also Tattooed Millionaire. Accident of Birth was another really good one, and I will always have a soft spot for Tyranny of Souls (which came later), because it was my first solo album of his, and I still hold that one really high. Navigate the Seas of the Sun is a personal favorite that I would put up there in my top10 Maiden/BD songs, also a few other great ones like Abduction, River of no Return and Kill Devil Hill. Great album.

I agree with what you say about Bruce's solo work.  I think his awesomeness in solo work that was actually better than what IM were putting out in the 90s might have played a large role in getting him and Adrian back in the band... those guys were creating amazing music.

Shit yes on both counts.  I remember hearing The Tower on some rock station back when it first came out and thinking it was lightyears ahead of its Maiden counterpart, which would probably have been VXI. 

I really love Navigate the Seas of the Sun as well; such a gorgeous melody and some really awesome lyrics, definitely one of Bruce's finest moments.  Aside from Believil and the kind of average title track, Tyranny of Souls is fantastic.

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #187 on: March 26, 2015, 05:25:19 PM »
Believil keeps ToS from being perfect.

Offline 425

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #188 on: March 26, 2015, 05:29:52 PM »
For years I thought BYD was stupid, and for years I didn't listen to it, but it's really not that bad. It's like You Not Me. Same with Holy Smoke. Harmless.

I tend to agree with this on the count of Holy Smoke, and sometimes on BYDTTS. But the fact that BYD's lyrics are so crude bothers me sometimes.
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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #189 on: March 26, 2015, 05:49:50 PM »
For years I thought BYD was stupid, and for years I didn't listen to it, but it's really not that bad. It's like You Not Me. Same with Holy Smoke. Harmless.
Agreed. There's nothing really wrong with it, it's just kinda boring. I like Holy Smoke though. No Prayer in general is a pretty solid album IMHO.
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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #190 on: March 26, 2015, 06:47:33 PM »
Holy Smoke is the one song from NPftD that most dislike that I actually enjoy.  Its nothing great, but I think its a fun song and I like the guitar solo.

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #191 on: March 26, 2015, 08:30:09 PM »
You guys have just helped me to put my finger on exactly why I really dislike No Prayer for the Dying.  It *does* sound like an album of Iron Maiden B-sides.  And that's just the problem.   Because for as much as I've heard some people call Iron Maiden a "comic book" band, I could NOT disagree with that description more. 

When Iron Maiden started out, no one was laughing.   Eddie's persona was one that was cool, but in a very eerie, creepy, macabre kind of way.   By the time Powerslave came out, Killers was the lowest selling album, but it had the most iconic cover.   THAT was Eddie.  To many people, it was just as scary as it was cool.   But the nature of the songs was actually quite serious.  Do you know how many metal fans actually picked up A BOOK because of Iron Maiden?   They sold Poe to a whole new generation!   But it wasn't just literature.  Social subjects, life and death, pain and madness, war, superstition...all of these were subjects to fantastic Iron Maiden songs, and they were actually well written in a fashion that you could contemplate and take seriously.    But their B-sides let you know that they did have a sense of humor.   It was nice to know that, "Hey.  We thought we'd let our fans in on some of our silly moments.  This isn't a REAL Iron Maiden album/song...this is a wink and a nod, just us having a bit of a piss..enjoy it!"   Those were the Iron Maiden B-sides.  The behind the scenes stuff.   The goofing off...not the serious Maiden.     And that's OK for a B-side. 

So No Prayer kindof felt like the guys saying, "Nah!  We were just having you on.  We never were serious at all!  Joke's on you!"   

Suddenly, the eerie, spooky, creepy, psychotic Eddie was now "old weird Uncle Eddie" who pops out his glass eye and plays "gotcher nose" with a dislocated thumb.   The whole album just feels like one big long 50 minute joke. 

Say what you want about Fear of the Dark.  It may not be a great Iron Maiden album, but at least it sounds like they were at least trying to write a *serious* Iron Maiden album...
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Offline wolfking

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #192 on: March 27, 2015, 06:58:23 AM »
Believil keeps ToS from being perfect.

Yes.

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #193 on: March 27, 2015, 07:00:25 AM »
Holy Smoke is the one song from NPftD that most dislike that I actually enjoy.  Its nothing great, but I think its a fun song and I like the guitar solo.

Holy shit, someone else likes Holy Smoke? :hifive:
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Offline wolfking

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #194 on: March 27, 2015, 07:05:27 AM »
I never really had an issue with Holy Smoke either.  The guitar solos are fantastic.

Offline 425

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #195 on: March 27, 2015, 07:32:33 AM »
So No Prayer kindof felt like the guys saying, "Nah!  We were just having you on.  We never were serious at all!  Joke's on you!"   

Suddenly, the eerie, spooky, creepy, psychotic Eddie was now "old weird Uncle Eddie" who pops out his glass eye and plays "gotcher nose" with a dislocated thumb.   The whole album just feels like one big long 50 minute joke. 

Say what you want about Fear of the Dark.  It may not be a great Iron Maiden album, but at least it sounds like they were at least trying to write a *serious* Iron Maiden album...

I definitely agree that Fear of the Dark is the better album lyrically (though that one still has From Here to Eternity, don't forget). I'm annoyed by some of the NPFTD lyrics for the same reason you are.

But in fairness to NPFTD... the WHOLE thing isn't a 50 minute long joke. The title song, Fates Warning, Run Silent Run Deep and Mother Russia are all serious songs in the traditional Maiden lyrical style.
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Offline Zantera

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #196 on: March 27, 2015, 08:00:07 AM »
I think Maiden had a similar problem with No Prayer, and going into the 90s in general that many 80's bands had. They were coming off a strong run of albums in the 80's, and for some reason (I don't know if it was a creative decision or adjusting to what was popular, or following the money) they changed things up and it didn't work. Similar to what happened with Metallica, but possibly for different reasons. They tried changing things up and it didn't work. I'd say part of what Maiden's comeback with Brave New World so strong was that they returned to their classic style again, and it was pretty much world domination after that.

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #197 on: March 27, 2015, 08:34:48 AM »
But they really didnt. Brave New World is very similar to V11 in terms of song writing and structure.  It was just fantastically produced and has Bruce back on vocals that separated it from V11.  As pointed out in this thread, a few songs from BNW were from V11 leftovers.  I do agree that the changing of the times took its toll on IM with NPftD and FotD, but the XF -> TFF is a fairly clear move to a more progressive approach to the music.  Dance of Death maybe more similar to the 80s albums as it has shorter fast paced songs and less progressive, but overall they really found thier new style in XF IMO, it just didn't work out in terms of popularity due to the opposite reasons BNW did work out. 

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #198 on: March 27, 2015, 01:05:44 PM »
I think in this case, getting Bruce back on vocals was enough of a "return to the past" that they didn't need to change the music much. They just ended up writing better music on BNW and forward.

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #199 on: March 27, 2015, 01:10:15 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks that Adrian's return was at least as big as Bruce's? For as much as I love TXF and VXI, I have to say that Adrian plays by far the most important role out of the "supporting cast" of songwriters (i.e. the non-Steve ones).
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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #200 on: March 27, 2015, 01:28:46 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks that Adrian's return was at least as big as Bruce's? For as much as I love TXF and VXI, I have to say that Adrian plays by far the most important role out of the "supporting cast" of songwriters (i.e. the non-Steve ones).
Absolutely! I loved when Bruce started to collab with Adrian on his solo stuff. So when Bruce joined I was equally happy about Adrian joining Maiden.
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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #201 on: March 27, 2015, 01:56:27 PM »
You guys have just helped me to put my finger on exactly why I really dislike No Prayer for the Dying.  It *does* sound like an album of Iron Maiden B-sides.
You're welcome. :)

Say what you want about Fear of the Dark.  It may not be a great Iron Maiden album, but at least it sounds like they were at least trying to write a *serious* Iron Maiden album...
Right. I also said that. Steve's vision for No Prayer was a stripped down style, without the excesses of the 80's. Problem was, the writing ended up being stripped down. It's one thing to record an album in a certain style, but the songs still have to be there. I just think Steve took his foot off the pedal too much.

Am I the only one who thinks that Adrian's return was at least as big as Bruce's? For as much as I love TXF and VXI, I have to say that Adrian plays by far the most important role out of the "supporting cast" of songwriters (i.e. the non-Steve ones).

Absolutely. Adrian is the glue between Steve and Bruce. NPFTD and FOTD are subpar because the of the lack of Adrian, among other things, but his absence is glaring, and was at the time. I literally remember exactly where I was when I read that Adrian left. It was a huge letdown, but I was happy it was Janick. He's good on Tattooed Millionaire and was great when I saw Bruce on that tour. He already seemed like part of the family. But really, he could never replace Adrian.


But I also remember when Balls To Picasso came out, and compared with The X Factor, it was clear how much balance Bruce gave the band. The X Factor is a highly debated album, but for me, it's basically a Steve Harris solo album, with no one else in the band to debate Steve's ideas. A great frontman aside, I never really understood Bruce's importance to the band as I did when those two albums came out.

So having both Bruce and Adrian back, both motivated, really gave Maiden a huge lift, and creatively, the Reunion era stands right with the Classic era.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #202 on: March 27, 2015, 03:55:08 PM »
There's no doubt that Adrian's return also played a huge role in the revival of the music.  And his work with Bruce's solo stuff is the best Bruce's solo stuff.  It says something to me that this guy happens to be apart of all the really good music and avoided all the bad albums.

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #203 on: March 27, 2015, 04:50:06 PM »
I'm glad Bruce only agreed to come back with Adrian.  Adrian's best playing IMO is on AOB and CW.

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #204 on: March 31, 2015, 04:14:40 AM »
Just finished listening to the TV version of Rock in Rio. It's ridiculous how many over dubs were put in the DVD version. The worst one being in Fear of the Dark. The crowd was loud as fuck and they still put a duplicate soundbite of Bruce in. I think they even cut out a small section in The Clansman. I'd have to go back and check.

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #205 on: March 31, 2015, 04:47:12 AM »
The TV broadcast (video) of RiR is awesome for its 'un-fucked-by-Harris' editing style. 

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #206 on: March 31, 2015, 04:54:11 AM »
I personally love the chaotic editing on that DVD, it's so energetic and powerful, it perfectly fits the music of that intensity. The only thing I'm not too crazy about is indeed the overdubbing of Bruce's vocals, they really didn't need to do that. Better let the crowd be heard, especially when it's that awesome.

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #207 on: March 31, 2015, 05:12:14 AM »
Just finished listening to the TV version of Rock in Rio. It's ridiculous how many over dubs were put in the DVD version. The worst one being in Fear of the Dark. The crowd was loud as fuck and they still put a duplicate soundbite of Bruce in. I think they even cut out a small section in The Clansman. I'd have to go back and check.

Where can this be found legally?
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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #208 on: March 31, 2015, 05:14:56 AM »
Just finished listening to the TV version of Rock in Rio. It's ridiculous how many over dubs were put in the DVD version. The worst one being in Fear of the Dark. The crowd was loud as fuck and they still put a duplicate soundbite of Bruce in. I think they even cut out a small section in The Clansman. I'd have to go back and check.

Where can this be found legally?

Cuply ones on youtube, quality isn't too awesome tho.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aop5aIR-VY

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Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #209 on: March 31, 2015, 04:04:48 PM »
Just finished listening to the TV version of Rock in Rio. It's ridiculous how many over dubs were put in the DVD version. The worst one being in Fear of the Dark. The crowd was loud as fuck and they still put a duplicate soundbite of Bruce in. I think they even cut out a small section in The Clansman. I'd have to go back and check.

There's overdubs all over the whole concert, but those two songs are by far the worst.  Not sure about cutting out a section in The Clansman.  What makes me laugh is on the official CD/DVD, during the "no, we're not gonna take anymore,"  at one point you can hear the overdub of Bruce saying this line over the crowd, but then they cut a word out and you hear Bruce yell at the crowd to sing which is from the concert.  But, there's no way Bruce could stop singing and yell like he does to the crowd almost at the same time.  It's like they have almost dubbed Bruce over the top of himself.  I would have to find it to make it more clear what I am referring to.